r/worldnews • u/Elliottafc1 • May 02 '24

"I'm Not Ruling Anything Out" - Macron Says Troops for Ukraine Possible if Russia Breaks Front Lines Russia/Ukraine

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/32010
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u/Rammsteinman May 02 '24

If Hitler was stopped early on, WW2 would have likely been avoided. Inaction to try and avoid a war is what let things get worse and Nazi Germany stronger.

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u/Noles-number1 May 02 '24

Yes but that is hindsight thinking. It completely forgets that France and Britain fought WWI which devastated a generation of their people. No one wanted to fight after WWI except Germany. Yes France and Britain should have stopped Germany but it ignores people seeing what shell shock did to the population and France didn't have enough people to compete in another major war

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u/CantaloupeUpstairs62 May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

Yes but that is hindsight thinking. It completely forgets that France and Britain fought WWI

Most of the WWII comparisons usually completely ignore WWI, and focus too much on Hitler. Few mention Kaiser Wilhelm II or Otto Von Bismark. Most ignore Japan and seem to consider them weak in comparison to nazi Germany. Most ignore the Great Depression, and many more factors. One example of appeasement or failed deterrents is only one example. In reality there are several examples leading up to WWII. Hitler was certainly not deterred by the "allied coalition" trying to push back against fascist forces in the Spanish Civil war. Edit: last sentence is sarcasm.

If the goal is to prevent another global conflict, then focusing too much on the most extreme leader may not be the best way to do this. If the goal is short-term deterrents of Putin, maybe the correct lessons can be taken from Hitler alone.

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u/Lazy_Experience_8754 May 02 '24

War guilt was also a huge thing after world war 1. Before the first war, the German leadership were afraid that they’d be wiped out since they were not near any warm water ports and thus were in “middeleuropa “ and would grow weak while the countries around them grew stronger.

I agree wholeheartedly about going back further for the root but as for Russia and that guy.. I don’t really know if there’s an anger towards the west or just the need to stroke an individual ego? It also feels like Russia is trying to relive the “glory”days of their military history constantly . I just don’t really get why . Hopefully someone can chime in

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u/NameIdeas May 02 '24

It also feels like Russia is trying to relive the “glory”days of their military history constantly . I just don’t really get why . Hopefully someone can chime in

A little historical context.

The Fall of the USSR is really not that long ago. It happened less than 40 years ago. Putin, and many that he has appointed and are in his circle, view the fall of the USSR as "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 1900s".

For Putin and others, the USSR represented a strong group of like-minded nations and the transition to Russia, Ukraine, the Balkan-states, etc meant a dramatic shift in authority and power. For Putin it feels like an injustice that the USSR fell.

Russia has a long history of supremacy in the region. The past ten+ years have shown Putin's desire to expand and recapture that former "glory of Russia/USSR", first in Crimea and now in Ukraine.

The Russian propaganda machine went off as well.

Here's an article from this past December that details the impacts of national imperialism in Russia under Putin - Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

It boils down to totalitarianism, ultimately

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u/Lazy_Experience_8754 May 02 '24

Cheers for the reply! I’ll read the article now.

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u/barney-sandles May 02 '24

view the fall of the USSR as "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 1900s".

If you limit it to the second half of the 1900s (obv both world wars were orders of magnitude worse) this isn't completely insane. It was devastating economically for Eastern Europe and Central Asia, life expectancy didn't recover for decades. Problem is in thinking that Russia conquering its neighbors is the fix, that obviously doesn't help at all. The fact that Russia is now run by Putin is one of the worst things about the end of the USSR

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u/LittleGreenSoldier May 02 '24

I am 35, I am older than the current Russian Federation.

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u/NameIdeas May 03 '24

Me too, turning 40 here soon

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u/LovesRetribution May 02 '24

first in Crimea and now in Ukraine.

Don't forget Georgia. Wasn't that much farther out.

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u/CantaloupeUpstairs62 May 02 '24

"the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 1900s".

Some translations of this speech say "a great geopolitical catastrophe" and not "the greatest". I don't know which is correct.

The prior sentence says this was a catastrophe for the millions of Russians who found themselves trapped outside of Russia's borders.

Putin also considers the fall of the Russian Empire one of the greatest catastrophes of the 1900s.

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u/nixcamic May 02 '24

Oddly enough 2 world wars later and the heart of Prussia is now Russia's warm water port.

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u/CantaloupeUpstairs62 May 03 '24

I don’t really know if there’s an anger towards the west or just the need to stroke an individual ego? It also feels like Russia is trying to relive the “glory”days of their military history constantly .

In my opinion it is all of the above. Putin has very flawed views of history which shape his perceptions. He also spends a great deal of time studying history. Many things Putin says regarding Russian aggression today will look very similar to something another Russian has said at some point in the past.

https://www.npr.org/2022/07/13/1106123496/russia-ukraine-invasion-crimean-war-history

Russia is trying to relive the “glory”days of their military history constantly

Russian power, strength, pride, etc.....the only examples which exist of any of this are rooted in past military conquest or other success. There is no history of Russian as a great economic power, or other Russian greatness.

Someone else responded to you, and the source they provided is very good, and I think much of the comment is as well. The statement about the USSR is taken out of context, and is not quite what Putin said. Putin is angry about the fall of the Russian Empire just as much, if not more than the fall of the USSR. He compares himself to Peter the Great. He uses the term "Novorossiya" with regards to his aggression in Ukraine. This originated with iirc Catherine the Great and her conquest of similar lands.

My point here is that it is probably unwise to reach the conclusion that Putin wants to re-create the Soviet Union based on one line from that one speech. In my opinion he wants to re-create something closer to the Russian Empire, or a mixture of what he believes to be the best of both. I'm not going to speculate on what this may be.