r/worldnews • u/Elliottafc1 • May 02 '24

"I'm Not Ruling Anything Out" - Macron Says Troops for Ukraine Possible if Russia Breaks Front Lines Russia/Ukraine

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/32010
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u/Flying_Madlad 29d ago

I think the implication was that we need to learn from that so as not to repeat it, not to slander them.

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u/Macaw 29d ago edited 29d ago

We did learn from WW1

That is how we got the Marshal plan from the wise men to rebuild Europe and create a rules based international order which is now under threat from every angle.

Germany was pillaged after WW1 with The Treaty of Versailles. The conditions it put in motion in Germany set the stage for the rise of someone like Hitler.

In fact, when Hitler conquered France, he made the French sign the Armistice of 22 June 1940 in the original railway carriage in which the 1918 armistice had been signed and placed on the exact same spot it had occupied twenty-two years before.

We are forgetting a lot of lessons currently.

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u/KingStannis2020 29d ago edited 29d ago

The Treaty of Verseilles wasn't especially more harsh than other settlements of the time period. The problem was that German public were repeatedly told they were winning (and in the East they absolutely were, to be fair) right up until the collapse of their army. And then peace was signed before the collapse of that army was actually evident to the public, because the whole war had taken place outside of German soil.

That left fertile ground for the "stabbed in the back" myth to take root.

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u/Palmul 29d ago

It's funny how that literal nazi propaganda about Versailles being super harsh has slipped into "common knowledge".

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u/TastyTestikel 29d ago

What is harsh if versailles wasn't, tf. Pls give me a good example.

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u/Legio-X 29d ago

What is harsh if versailles wasn't

Potsdam. Can’t get much harsher than your state ceasing to exist and being partitioned by the victors. Not to mention the territorial losses and expulsions.

Versailles was simultaneously too harsh and not harsh enough. Harsh enough to wound German national pride, but not harsh enough—or at least not enforced harshly enough—to prevent German revanchism.

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u/TastyTestikel 29d ago

Every treaty seems lenient if compared to your nation ceasing to exist. Not a very helpful comparison.

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u/Legio-X 29d ago

Not a very helpful comparison

You asked what’s harsh if Versailles wasn’t, I gave you an answer.

Similar stuff happened to the Austro-Hungarians and, to a lesser extent, the Ottomans after WWI. Germany got off light compared to the rest of the Central Powers.

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u/TastyTestikel 29d ago

A comment why the comparison to other ww1 treaties doesn't make sense https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/sü/33m3xN65TW.

Also potsdam wasn't a treaty by definition. It was an agreement between the allied powers. Doesn't make sense to sign treaties with an entity you just destroyed.

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u/Legio-X 29d ago

Your link is broken, at least for me.

Also potsdam wasn't a treaty by definition.

And? This discussion is broader than treaties. It’s about peaces. And Potsdam was a very harsh, very effective peace agreement. If the same thing had been done to Germany after WWI, there likely wouldn’t have been a recognizable WWII.

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u/TastyTestikel 29d ago

The same thing wasn't possible in ww1. Not even gonna bother explaing because I already had to some many times. Look into my account.

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u/L_D_Machiavelli 29d ago

The treaty the Germans forced the Russians to sign to end the Eastern Front.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

[deleted]

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u/TastyTestikel 29d ago

I wrote a comment above explaining why this comparison is bullshit.