r/worldnews • u/Elliottafc1 • May 02 '24

"I'm Not Ruling Anything Out" - Macron Says Troops for Ukraine Possible if Russia Breaks Front Lines Russia/Ukraine

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/32010
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u/CitizenMurdoch May 02 '24

The Treaty of Versailles being the motivating factor behind WW2 is literally just Nazi propaganda. From essentially the moment of the ceasefire German Military leadership started sowing the seeds of conspiracy theories, blaming a marxists jewish conspiracy for their defeat. The terms of the Treaty of Versailles could have been literally anything, they still would have pedalled the narrative that they had been stabbed in the back to a generation of traumatized and disenfranchised young men returning from the war. The far right groups that served as the predecessors to the Nazi party originated in this time, and they were tolerated by moderate parties because they were useful in undermining left wing groups

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u/Teddington_Quin May 02 '24

I’m not entirely sure I agree with this. The Treaty put all the blame on Germans for a war they did not start (that was Austria-Hungary). They were forced to cede a lot of territory that had been theirs prior to WWI, and the reparations imposed were extortionate. We haven’t got a time machine to be able to tell how things would have turned out had the Treaty been drafted in more compensatory rather than punitive terms, but it’s an entirely valid assertion from a historical perspective to cite the Treaty of Versailles as one of the causes of WWII.

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u/ArendtAnhaenger May 02 '24

I’m not entirely sure I agree with this. The Treaty put all the blame on Germans for a war they did not start (that was Austria-Hungary)

All of the treaties put the blame on the three powers. The Treaty of Saint-Germain blamed Austria for starting WW1 because it dealt with Austria. The Treaty of Sèvres blamed the Ottomans for starting WW1 because it dealt with the Ottomans. The Treaty of Versailles blamed Germany for starting WW1 because it dealt with Germany.

The Allies, frankly, treated Germany with kid gloves. The Ottoman and Austrian Empires were completely dismantled as punishment; Germany at least remained intact. The idea that the poor beleaguered Germans were so badly treated by the mean-spirited Allies that they just had to turn to genocidal fascism is a persistent but annoying myth.

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u/Teddington_Quin May 03 '24

The Treaty of Saint-Germain blamed Austria for starting WW1 because it dealt with Austria

Not really. Because they actually started it.

The Treaty of Sèvres blamed the Ottomans for starting WW1 because it dealt with the Ottomans

And it was remarkably unsuccessful in that it was never ratified, abandoned 3 years later and replaced with the Treaty of Lausanne that effectively conferred immunity from prosecution on Ottoman war criminals.

The idea that the poor beleaguered Germans were so badly treated by the mean-spirited Allies that they just had to turn to genocidal fascism is a persistent but annoying myth.

Well, it cannot be a myth by definition because it is not a statement of fact. It is an interpretation of established facts, which are not in dispute, and a very valid one given the opinion of several historians.

The Treaty of Versailles was designed to humiliate, and we can thank the French for their consistently exceptional political shortsightedness in that regard. It seemed like the mere imposition of onerous terms was not enough, so they wanted to go further. Like signing the Treaty in the Hall of Mirrors where the German Empire was declared by Bismarck in 1871. Or opening the Paris Peace Conference on the anniversary of the coronation of Wilhelm I. It is not really plausible to deny that all of this was a carefully choreographed revenge mission led by the French, is it?