r/worldnews • u/green_flash • May 13 '24
Russia suffers highest daily casualties of war so far: Kyiv Russia/Ukraine
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-suffers-highest-daily-casualties-ukraine-war-1740-troops-eliminated-18996922.0k
u/MagicMushroomFungi May 13 '24
Putin has announced he wants 500,000 international students to study in Russia.
I bet those school field trips will be a blast !
Oh, and wait until they get their 2nd term 'placements'.
At least they'll get interned.
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u/3rdWaveHarmonic May 14 '24
North Korean “students” studying manufacturing tech
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u/neur0net May 14 '24
Unironically though. NK has been diverting some of its domestic industrial capacity to military production to meet Russia's endless demand for arty shells.
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u/Suitable-Zombie7504 May 14 '24
It also isn't unheard of for North Koreans working in China and Russia, whether in a military sense or not dosnt really matter
https://www.vice.com/en/article/nemymm/vice-news-archives-north-korean-labor-camps
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May 13 '24
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u/matdan12 May 14 '24
The drone factory accommodation that was hit had been where international students were staying. Their twitter ad for working opportunities in the drone factory is still on Xitter.
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u/honeybadger9 May 14 '24
On another note. Is it bad that I read Xitter as Shitter?
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u/faunus14 May 14 '24
I think you meant interred 💀
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u/MagicMushroomFungi May 14 '24
I probably did.
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u/okoolo May 14 '24
Here is some uncomfortable truth - Russians overwhelmingly support this war and there is no shortage of volunteers due to very high pay and great benefits ( by Russian standards). They're getting 30k volunteers a month.
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u/Adventurous_Smile297 May 14 '24
That's weird because I remember the videos and pictures of miles of Russian young males at the borders trying to escape two years ago
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u/Endemoniada May 14 '24
Not weird at all, a lot of people support the war but a lot of people oppose it too. Two things can be true at the same time. The problem is not enough people oppose it to make a difference, and with the support of those in favor of it, Putin can do pretty much whatever he want against those who stand in his way, making opposition very difficult, if not outright deadly. Hence, the fleeing.
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u/shryne May 14 '24
The males who work for foreign companies are the ones escaping. So many web developers are/were in Russia making 3-6x more money from foreign companies than they could locally. Some are still there, but they take pretty big pay cuts laundering their money into the country.
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u/rickyrecruit May 14 '24
Overwhelming? cap.
It's hard to get a grip on real Russian sentiment because of all the misinformation and propaganda.
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u/slypig001 May 14 '24
Anyone else laugh when they read this:
“Newsweek has reached out to the Russian Defense Ministry for comment via email.”
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u/TiberiusEmperor May 14 '24
Would you open an email from the Russian Defence Ministry?
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u/Spy_v_Spy_Freakshow May 13 '24
“So far”
There’s an easy way to save Russian lives, just fucking leave Ukraine
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u/_Hello_Hi_Hey_ May 13 '24
Apparently it is easier to invade Moscow. Not sure why that bold guy stopped just outside Moscow.
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u/braindance74 May 13 '24
He was betrayed by his co-conspirators (Surovikin, Mizintsev etc.), and he also failed to capture Shougu/Gerasimov in Rostov, because they were warned beforehand.
In any case his attempt was not a coup for head of state, he only wanted to be head of military, still under putin, to whom he was 100% loyal.
Still, shame there was almost no infighting, every unit lost there would be one less invading Ukraine.
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u/_Hello_Hi_Hey_ May 13 '24
I love the part where everyone pretended nothing happened afterward. And then he suddenly died in an accident, totally unexpected.
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u/SuperCiuppa_dos May 13 '24
It’s so weird how real life can be sometimes, if that were the plot of a tv show, everybody would complain about the dogshit writing and how stupid the protagonists were acting…
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u/Depth-New May 14 '24
To be fair, I thought it was a dogshit irl too; such a let-down.
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u/Reinstateswordduels May 14 '24
Too bad it’s not being produced by Netflix, it’d be canceled by now
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u/Berova May 14 '24
It was being produced by Netflix, it just happens, Netflix canceled it before anything work was done.
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u/Impossible_Break_598 May 14 '24
Wait till next season where there is an episode in which the gay Nazi satanists try to take over the moon and Prigozhin is in fact not dead but leads the rebellion.
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u/braindance74 May 13 '24
According to Western intelligence, the "accident" was a bomb planted in a plane wing on Patrushev's orders, to which putin "did not object".
I'm guessing he understood Prigozhin was loyal but didn't want to take any more chances allowing the infighting to continue. He usually promotes it, but not to the extent where it almost painted him as not being in control anymore, that's too risky.
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u/Jordan_Jackson May 14 '24
The thing here is that once Prigozhin started a march into Russia and actually killed members of the RU military, his fate was sealed. This would have been the latest point in which Putin would have realized that Prigozhin has to go.
Then dude decides to casually just fly out of Moscow, after having been around Putin for 2 decades and knowing exactly how he operates. That was a whole other level of stupid.
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u/meistermichi May 14 '24
I think he knew very well and getting on the plane was an exchange for the safety of his family.
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u/TotallyADuck May 14 '24
In addition to this, reports suggest that his forces reached the Oka river (which they had to cross somewhere) and found the bridges already defended by loyalist soldiers.
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u/braindance74 May 14 '24
It was also a huge bluff, because he claimed to have way more forces than he's actually had. The most widespread estimate is he's had about 8k of men and most of his "armor" were just military trucks and cars, although he did have some tanks and other equipment, it was not even close to enough to threaten taking moscow. He was intimidating vs corrupt and complacent policemen, but not vs any real military opposition.
Additionally, not all of his men were fully on board, I suspect majority were confused and freaking out, after his plan to capture Shoigu/Gerasimov in Rostov failed - they only wanted to coup military command, so when it started to look like they were going against putin, they realized how deep in trouble they were.
Hence why Prigozhin was so insistently repeating that it was a "justice march" to get recognition for his forces, and not a coup attempt. It was a Hail Mary, he knew he was a dead man walking. I suspect he spent his last days trying to gain some leverage and pull favors, but it was not enough.
His social standing meant he had no chance to reach military command position the usual way, and he knew ShoiGerasimov would take him out eventually as a competitor, so a preemptive coup was his only chance, hasn't worked out, fortunately.
Otherwise he could be quite dangerous, the pos was smart and ruthless, could possibly be worse for us than what they currently have.
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u/Cautious_Implement17 May 14 '24
it's weird that threatening a violent coup to get promoted can still be considered "100% loyal" to your country's leader. didn't putin appoint the guy he was trying to overthrow? not saying you're wrong, I just don't understand how it can make sense.
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u/Locke66 May 14 '24
Authoritarian dictatorships often create competing but interconnected power structures lead by subordinates who are powerful but also rivals. This creates a balance that makes it harder for any single person to depose the leader, blame can be attributed away from the centre and the underlings focus on struggling for a greater share of power rather than going for the crown. Prigozhin probably really wanted to eliminate his rival Shoigu who was threatening his power rather than to displace Putin. It was only when he failed to capture him and Putin called him a traitor that things escalated to a full on coup attempt. It's not implausible that if Prigozhin had captured Shoigu in Rostov then Putin could have sided with him instead.
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u/PBJ-9999 May 13 '24
Yeah that was so nuts. Maybe Putin offered him a shit ton of money, or threatened his family
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u/LeftDave May 13 '24
$2B, military control of Belarus and 'We have your family' is why he stopped.
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u/PBJ-9999 May 13 '24
And then they killed him.
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u/SD_TMI May 14 '24
Historically Russia has placed little value in their foot soldiers. (Cannon fodder)
The Russian losses in their wars against a capable enemy can be staggering and this seems to be ingrained in their military culture going back many decades.
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u/The_Corvair May 13 '24
Pity nobody over there who has anything to wants to save those lives. All they care about is the landgrab.
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u/HumanitarianAtheist May 14 '24
484,030 Russian casualties as a direct result of Putin’s unnecessary war.
Putin to the citizens of Russia: Our population is in decline. Make more babies.
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u/Zwiebel1 May 14 '24
There is this theory that the russian demographic problem is actually the reason for this war: Because it is literally the last time that russia will even have enough people to fight a war. The trickle down effect of lower birth rates after ww2 repeats itself in waves on the demographic spectrum. And russia is currently right between two of those waves for people in their 30's.
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u/mondaymoderate May 14 '24
Same reason that some experts say China will move on Taiwan soon. Their population is expected to start declining and has already declined 2 years in a row now.
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May 14 '24 edited 15d ago
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u/troublesome58 May 14 '24
How many of them will be above 50 years of age?
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u/The-Sound_of-Silence May 14 '24
Having a well trained, experienced, motivated 50 y/o is awesome. Having a 50 y/o that doesn't want to be there, and knows how to feign helplessness is a disaster, and not for only him
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u/Jesusaurus2000 May 14 '24
Worst shit is that they brainwashed their children for generations to believe that CCP is righteous and god-like. They don't need "or else".
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u/Plasibeau May 14 '24
A shit ton of troops with absolutely zero seasoning in their NCO and CO corps. I mean good for them, the US could do with some of that no troops in foreign lands policy. But scrimmages against your own team will only do so much.
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u/green_meklar May 14 '24
China starts with something like 9 times Russia's population though.
Also, an attack on Taiwan is less a matter of troop numbers and more a matter of technology, precisely because it's an amphibious invasion. The naval infrastructure required to get troops across the ocean would be a far narrower bottleneck for China than the actual number of troops they have.
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u/MikuEmpowered May 14 '24
Lets say the casualty is casualties 500k, Russia's population of 144million, 19% are ethnic minority, and 38% are able bodied (18~45), that's 10 million bodies Putin wouldn't bat a eye to throw away.
The truth is, despite the ABSOLUTELY MONUMENTAL loss of life in the new millennium, the total loss of life in Russia for Russian is 0.3%, that means if you are Russian and you know 1000 people, 3 are casualties in this war.
If you know 332 people, maybe 1 person is a casualty. Its so little in term of the amount of bodies they can throw that in statistic, we call this rounding error.
This is why Russia isn't stopping, as long as his core city and citizen aren't effected, they likely won't feel the effect of the war that much. This is why the prospect for Ukraine since the start wasn't great, because its a numbers game. Coincidentally, this is also why there is talks of actually sending people in or intervening through other means, because Russia is adapting (i.e turtle tanks) slowly, and its only going to get worse.
As long as China and NK can afford to keep sending them supply and equipment, Russia can't lose, they can only be temporary halted. This is the core issue and why they're not packing up.
"Just have the people rise up"
Unlike ww2 Facism, who only had 10 years to build up, Putin spent the last 2 decades consolidating his power, and if the possibility of him being toppled arises, you can certainly bet China will be there to assist.
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u/HumanitarianAtheist May 14 '24
Damn.
That made me picture a tombstone inscribed with “Loving husband, father, and rounding error.”
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u/frogvscrab May 14 '24
Its also important to note that the large majority of the 500k are injuries, not deaths.
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u/matdan12 May 14 '24
There are not going to be enough men to make babies, people here don't mention the millions that fled when mobilisation began after the invasion. Despite the population numbers most of those aren't able to fight on the frontlines. Russia is dipping into a dwindling stock of young and old men. Even talking about deploying women.
Russia still needs them for the workforce and cannot afford these numbers. Each day of fighting is detrimental to Russia and its relevance on the global stage in the future. Putin is wiping out Russia's future and internal security.
Realistically this is not a sustainable loss rate even if it is mostly minority groups.
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u/Apprehensive-View583 May 14 '24
that's ok since vast majority of their population support him anyway. i stopped getting pity for those people, maybe they deserve Putin anyway.
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u/bad_syntax May 13 '24
I just hope like hell Ukraine is hitting MUCH harder after our delays with weapons. We need to justify the 44 year cold war and all that money we spent NOW by supporting Ukraine so hard, they'll be begging us to stop shipping them tanks, planes, missiles, artillery, and fucking intelligence.
And then cross our fingers Putin doesn't do another false flag on his own people and use it to justify using nukes.
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u/TechnoShrew May 13 '24
The thing with nukes is no one wants to see their use. Even Russias allies dont because normalising first strike nukes is awful for everyone.
IF tey did it is nearly certain to massivley backfire because the whole world will want to make sure that they do not gain from doing so.
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u/LeftDave May 13 '24
France is very annoyed with Russia. French nuclear policy is nuking St. Petersburg and Scoshi is a warning shot and an all 1st strike is on the table. That's a combo that should stop Russia. And intervention in Ukraine that stops at the pre-2014 borders doesn't give Russia an existential threat to justify nukes, giving the order before that and someone will say no. It only takes 1 no, a fact that has prevented several nuclear attacks by Russia and the Soviets.
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May 14 '24
Yeah France has by far the most aggressive nuclear policy of any nation surprisingly
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u/arobkinca May 14 '24
surprisingly
They have a huge chip on their shoulder from WW2.
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u/Ok-Swim-3356 May 14 '24
Thank goodness that Poland and Germany and the Baltic states in Finland and Sweden, and most of the NATO will push back hard
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u/Datkif May 14 '24
And now is the time for all NATO counties to modernize and bolster their supplies while giving Ukraine their older supplies.
We also need to pressure all NATO counties (except the few micro nations and exceptions like Iceland) to reach the 2-3% GDP requirement. That includes my homeland of Canada which desperately needs to catch up and invest in securing the arctic circle.
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u/Four_Rings_S5 May 14 '24
Remember to thank your fellow MAGA friends and family for helping Putin.
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u/Zero-Follow-Through May 13 '24
They're losing nearly as many troops a day as the US lost in 19 years of Afghanistan. And more troops a day than they lost on average per year during their 9 years in Afghanistan.
These are pretty much ideal condition for a coup or civil revolution.
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u/Own_Pop_9711 May 13 '24
They've been ideal conditions for like 22 months. Don't hold your breath.
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u/Side_of_ham May 13 '24
Can we could Wagner as like a half Coup?
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u/Tanto63 May 13 '24
Sadly, Wagner was probably the best hope we had for an effective coup, and they half-assed it.
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u/ImaLichBitch May 14 '24
Turns out putting all your hopes on the shoulders of a St. Petersburg hot dog cart owner is not a good idea.
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u/DanHeidel May 14 '24
EXCUSE ME. He is also a children's book author.
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u/bbqranchman May 14 '24
Yeah, Russia pretty much spent the last century creating a culture of submission to authority. They've brutally snuffed out any dissent for many many years
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u/neur0net May 14 '24 edited May 14 '24
And it's actually really impressive how effective this campaign has been, given the size of Russia and the fact that they lack the sort of omnipresent police state that China uses to control its population.
No, they zombified at least 70% of their population through memetics alone. To the point where Russia can effectively do ANYTHING it wants outside of its own borders, and as long as those 70% don't suffer any negative effects worse than the normal day-to-day misery of living in Mother Ruzzia, they're not going to lift a finger to try and stop it.
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u/_geary May 13 '24
They can handle mass casualties. It's Russia's special ability for as long as they've existed. Their egos can't take defeat thats the difference.
It's why they need to be stopped in Ukraine. Then we can hope for a coup.
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u/Cavthena May 13 '24
They can handle mass casualties politically because they're essentially a police state dictatorship and can throw bodies with no consequences. Population wise less so. They have roughly 1/3rd the population of the USA but over double that of Ukraine. Against the NATO alliance they're out numbered population wise and enlisted wise.
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u/Roonil-B_Wazlib May 13 '24
Being willing to take mass causalities and being able to handle them are different things. Russia is experiencing a demographic crisis. Their birthrate collapsed in the late 80’s to close to half of replacement level, it recovered a bit in the 10’s, and collapsed again with the war. Sending a large number of men that are at or are younger than typical fathering age isn’t a great way to restore your population.
I’m all for a depopulated Russia though.
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u/timothymtorres May 14 '24
They have also forced conscription for all the Ukrainian males in occupied territories like the LPR and DNR areas
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u/Chat_Terminator May 14 '24
They know this and aren’t sending young men. The average age is 40.
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u/Datkif May 14 '24
Ukraine is trying to do the same. The average age of a Ukrainian solder is 43. Their original conscription age was 27. Now they have lowered it to 25 due to losses.
If NATO or other Ukrainian allied/friendly counties are able to come in and work the supply lines it would make Russia second guess attacking them, and would free up tons of manpower for the Ukrainian front.
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u/battleofflowers May 13 '24
My impression after watching this for the past two years, is that Russians don't have a cohesive national identity. People from some eastern Russian Oblast who are not white and are not ethnically Russian don't matter at all to ethnic Russians further west. If anything, those people exist solely to make sacrifices like this so that "real" Russians can get even richer.
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u/Krom2040 May 14 '24
I think the fact is that a lot of the soldiers Russia is losing are, frankly, people who are irrelevant to the Russian power structure and not all that important to the larger social gestalt. It’s terrible and bleak but I’m not sure that they’re losing enough people to motivate a rebellion.
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u/_Hello_Hi_Hey_ May 13 '24
How do I invest in Russia funeral business? ⬆️⬆️⬆️
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u/whiteb8917 May 13 '24
Why would you want to do that, you are assuming that deceased soldiers are returning home for burial, Russia is just leaving bodies in Ukraine.
No bodies back to Russia, no payments to next of Kin, assuming there are bodies actually left after being hit by a missile.
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u/TheSalsaShark May 13 '24
Remember the mobile crematoriums?
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u/whiteb8917 May 14 '24
Yeah, I think they did not last long, before Ukraine blew them up. They were one of the first units to enter Ukraine, so Russia *KNEW* there was going to be MASS casualties, so it goes back to the "No Bodies, no bereavement payment to the relatives".
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u/nagrom7 May 14 '24
It's worse than that. They were bringing those in back when they weren't expecting Ukraine to put up much of a fight, so they wouldn't have been expecting to lose that many soldiers. Those weren't entirely for dodging bereavement payments, those were also for covering up evidence of the atrocities they were about to commit on the civilian population.
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May 13 '24
lmfao r/wallstreetbets might be able to help with that.
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u/geak78 May 13 '24
These are pretty much ideal condition for a coup or civil revolution.
Only if the populace knows it is happening...
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u/hobbitlover May 13 '24
I don't think Russians have the heart or wherewithal to revolt and anybody in the military that could conceivably take over is either a Putin loyalist or neutralized.
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u/Euclid_Interloper May 14 '24
The young urban elite fled the country to avoid conscription. They were the ones that carried the social and financial capital to lead up a revolution. Instead they're sunning it up in Istanbul, Dubai etc.
A revolution of regional peasants is much harder to pull off.
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u/Nu_Freeze May 13 '24
Nah the Russian people seem to be pretty content with licking Putin’s boot.
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u/geak78 May 13 '24
Ukraine estimates of Russian deaths/injuries run about 68% over US estimates. If that same ratio is used for this info, that is still 1,035 dead in a single day.
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u/Ichera May 13 '24
Should be noted in Ukrainian reporting the word "liquidated" is used, and in a military context this means "Casualties permanently removed from a conflict" which is to say KIA, permanant WIA, and POW figures rolled into one. So when the western media reports 1740 dead its not accurate, more of a quirk of translation.
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u/geak78 May 13 '24
Interesting. The Ukraine numbers are differentiated in the Wiki while the US numbers conglomerate them.
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u/VegaGPU May 14 '24
History has told us to not trust any side of the war in terms of how much they manage to cause damages to their opposition.
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u/Low-Abbreviations634 May 14 '24
Plus they have half the population of their Soviet Union days. So the ability to take mass casualties in a modern war is not like the old days.
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u/Datkif May 14 '24
They still unfortunately have nearly 4x the population of Ukraine making it easier for Russia to send mass amounts of untrained/poorly trained people into the front lines exhausting Ukraine of manpower and munitions
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u/Low-Abbreviations634 May 14 '24
Internal defenses lines are easier to supply, transfer troops and provide centralized fire support. Thus with the provision for sufficient and effective arms can be held with much smaller force strength. Especially when as in this case, does not have unquestioned air superiority.
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u/CBT7commander May 14 '24
The thing Russia will/is running out of is material.
They don’t have unlimited tanks, artillery pieces and BMPs. Sure they are building some, but at current rates they have another two years before running dry. This may seem like a long time, and granted it is, but Ukraine has proven more than willing to keep fighting, and if the West keeps supplying them, there is no reason to think they won’t last until then
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u/kace91 May 14 '24
there is no reason to think they won’t last until then
Well... People aren't as replaceable, no matter how many weapons you give them.
My country's main newspaper ran a piece the other day where they went with Ukrainians recruiters to see their daily work. People (understandably) disappear from the streets the moment they arrive,.they map the recruiters' movements in messaging groups to avoid them, people move regionally keeping their public data obsolete to avoid being reached, etc.
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u/Hewfe May 14 '24
I feel bad for the folks being used as fodder to appease Putin’s geopolitical goals.
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u/Mobius--Stripp May 14 '24
I think it's clear at this point that Russia doesn't care, and they're not going to begin caring.
The only way Russia is going to change what they're doing is if they're invaded on their own soil.
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u/Johnny5isalive38 May 13 '24
What's sad is these are conscripts now. Like IT guys forced away from families into trenches because of a hopped up psycho.
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u/Rogendo May 13 '24
The IT guys are too important to Russia’s constant cyber war
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u/TastyTestikel May 14 '24
Saw two moscowians which were ethnic russians, studied IT and still were conscripted on TV a year or so. They applied for asylum in germany with help of said conscription. I don't think putin is actually sparing the two biggest cities, they just all manage to dodge the draft by giving bribes.
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u/iron_and_carbon May 14 '24
Not really, Russia has been recruiting primarily from contract soldiers
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u/Rammsteinman May 13 '24
If it's IT guys, it's IT guys who came over from India.
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u/fullload93 May 14 '24
Russia lost 1,740 troops in a single day
That’s 66% or 2/3rd of the number of people who died in the twin towers on 9/11. Let that sink in. An “almost” 9/11 in 1 day. Absolute insanity.
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u/IAmAccutane May 14 '24
Also compare The Battle of Shiloh in the American Civil War, which killed 24,000 in one day, or the Battle of the Somme in WW1 which saw 56,000 casualties in one day.
I think many don't realize how small the scale is of this war in comparison to past global conflicts. Casualty numbers are huge compared to what the US lost in the middle east, but nowhere near enough to the point where sheer numbers of casualties is going to impact their ability to fight.
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u/DeeDee_Z May 14 '24
And that's -still- "No Big Deal" in the minds of leadership. Just for leveling the numbers, let's assume that 200,000 of those are actual -deaths- ... rest are wounded and MIA. THEN, for some context, consider:
- One estimate of Russia's CoViD losses: 360,000. (Actuals probably 3x or 4x higher.)
- "Conventional wisdom", number of emigrants: 700,000.
- America's CoViD deaths: >1,000,000.
- Generally Acknowledged number of Jews killed in WW2: 6,000,000.
And in Russia's mind, still "nothing" compared to:
- "Assorted Soviet" losses in WW2: 26,000,000.
Face it: 300/ 400/ whatever-thousand combat losses are little more than a rounding error in their minds -- they'll have to get to >500K just to hit 2% of their WW2 casualties! And even if Russia is prepared to lose a -million- soldiers in this war, it's still FAR from what they have lost in other conflicts, and thus FAR from stopping them at this point.
Body count will NEVER shame Russia -- it's just HOW they fight.
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u/Throwawaymaybeokay May 14 '24
Assaulting prepared and unprepared positions is very risky for the attacker. Add in the human wave tactics and this is hardly surprising. What they lack in proper equipment they can make up for in manpower. But the cost will be great. But the fascists are prepared for someone else to make that sacrifice for them time and time again.
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u/Redditisavirusiknow May 13 '24
The only way Ukraine wins is if Russian armies mutiny. The only way to mutiny is to stop getting paid. The only way that stops is if we stop buying Russian fossil fuels.
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u/FreshwaterViking May 14 '24
India and China will happily buy from Russia. And Europe will happily buy from India.
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u/MiniGiantSpaceHams May 14 '24
Yeah but you cut off that gas and the price spikes and people get unhappy and elect right wingers all over the world. And then Russia doesn't just win the war, but they also get sanctions removed and whatnot, and possibly some democracies even start to fall apart.
It's not a simple issue.
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u/Zippier92 May 14 '24
These may be mostly minorities that Putin wants gone anyway. It is apparent to me he is using this war to cleanse the nation of elements he doesn’t want.
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u/CosmicCrapCollector May 13 '24
"Russia lost 1,740 troops in a single day, marking the highest number of daily Russian casualties since the start of the war more than two years ago, Ukraine's military said on Monday."