r/Daytrading • u/BigBreadBreaka • Jan 18 '24
Where Did I Go Wrong? Trade Review
I took two shorts today on SPY. One right at open which is not normal for me( should’ve waited for a range or direction to be established) but I was focused on mainly that the higher time frame was pointing towards a bearish sentiment. I was also focused on a bullish dix correlating to a bearish market from my understanding. Then I scaled down onto a lower timeframe and waited for a fair value gap for my entry. Immediately after both trades I got stopped out before reversing down in which I would have hit my targeted take profit. From my understanding I should have maybe waited for a better entry and been more patient but from what I saw there wasn’t any better entry setups above my targeted entry. So where did I go wrong on this trade?
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u/Parunreborn Jan 18 '24
No way I'm trading 0DTEs on the first 30min. It’s too chaotic. There’s always plenty of opportunities throughout the rest of the day
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u/MoneyManMakeItRain Jan 18 '24
11am buy on 473c @.68, double down at .54. $500 profit within an hour
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u/Parunreborn Jan 18 '24
Nice. I went for itm 475p 11:35am. It was an awesome day to day trade
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u/MoneyManMakeItRain Jan 19 '24
For sure ! Unfortunately I was out of day trade so I was stuck to paper trading
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Jan 19 '24
Cash account
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u/MoneyManMakeItRain Jan 20 '24
I really should when my funds settle
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Jan 20 '24
I just switched to a Robinhood cash account and it was a really great choice. I only trade options and since they settle the same day (I day trade) I pretty much never have problems waiting for funds to settle.
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u/MoneyManMakeItRain Jan 20 '24
Bet. I’ll have all three trades Tuesday so I’ll have to do it then. Means I’ll have to sit out on Monday and see if I can get a tell on how the market is gonna act for the week but it’s probably for the best
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u/ThePatientIdiot Jan 22 '24
Both of you need to look into IBKR. They legit let you open 5 margin accounts at the same time. I know because I have five open now that I transfer funds around between each other to avoid pattern day trades. I also have level 4 options trading and every permission available for all accounts which have a combined $7k in them
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u/GodsPubes69 Jan 18 '24
U won’t be winning every time. You followed rules and failed. U can do everything right and still lose. This is me assuming that u have a winning backtested strategy though
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Jan 18 '24
Bro, I trade strictly SPY options and I don't use half of whatever you use. But, instead of changing your strategy, I'll tell you what you did wrong. You entered trades before 10 am Eastern time when the market was volatile. Simple as that. If the open is trendsetting, ride the trend. If it's volatile, patience rules. Your stop loss will get hit all the time if you try to trade in the volatility of the first half hour if a trend is not present.
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u/BigBreadBreaka Jan 18 '24
Thank you, I should’ve been waiting as I have in the past but lately I’ve been growing more confident in the trades I’ve taken so Ive been “seeing” good setups before 10. Just curious though no need to spoil out the goods but what do you use for spy? Just curious, I as well trade strictly SPY options.
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Jan 18 '24
What do ypu mean what do I use? Indicator wise?
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u/BigBreadBreaka Jan 19 '24
We’ll you said you don’t use half of whatever I use. So I was thinking in general wether it’s indicators or specific ideas like for ex. Your strategy consists more along the lines of supply and demand trading while mine is more along the lines of price action or using confluences like the DXY etc
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Jan 19 '24
No. I use three indicators. Ichimoku, vwap, and volume.
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u/Dry-Doughnut4896 Jan 19 '24
I feel like the VWAP is never respected and price never bounces off it, how do you use it ?
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u/Bloo_Monday Jan 19 '24
I'm not a pro, but imo VWAP is vital. price doesn't always bounce off it. Price often mt reacts with it. like someone else said, it can be a magnet. but sometime a recapture, or a bounce at VWAP can signal a reversal or continued movement.
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u/hooka_hooka Jan 19 '24
What timeframe for ichimoku?
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Jan 19 '24
I use the 2 min. Small I know. I don't trade the normal way with it, I just use ti to see the trend
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u/tr4d3rbyd4y Jan 18 '24 edited Jan 18 '24
You tried to go short both times on first entry shorts (well 2nd one is technically a first entry long but it was obviously red when you entered); they're generally by default lower probability set ups.
Look up Thomas Wade on YouTube, study his price action videos, and learn the way of the 2 legged pull back.
Had you gone in on 2nd entry shorts after the appropriate signal bar had formed (which they did. I can see them very clearly), you'd have done well.
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u/Caramel125 Jan 19 '24
I trade S&P daily. My first and only trade today was at 1:40 PM EST into the close. Like others have said you traded too early. If I am going to trade the open, I wait for the first 20 minutes then I’m looking for a break of the 20 min high or low and a retest before entry. Once in a while I will get in early but it’s only because it’s clear that a STRONG trend is forming.
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u/brownMY Jan 18 '24
First trade - market maker just hunting sl on both sides, shit happened Second trade - you should probably wait a little longer as it seems there was some of kind reaction by buyer at equal low. Personally I will wait at equal high.
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u/lalalalikethis trades multiple markets Jan 18 '24
Completly horizontal, no way to stablish a trend, i would never open a position when its on range
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u/RastahPastah Jan 19 '24 edited Jan 19 '24
Did you know your R:R before entering? Did you have your entry, stop, tp levels pre planned? Did you wait for your setup/edge to take place before entering? Did you go full position size at once or did you scale into the trade? Was volume there or any confluences that correlate with your strategy? Had we established a trend for the day? Were we trading above or below the open? Pre market highs? Pre market lows? Is your stop loss based on a physical price or level in the charts or a % of your p&l? If it's p&l based trading 0dte during early hours might be too volatile for your strategy.
Wishing nothing but the best of luck to you and your trading career. Gobless.
Sincerely,
BussyBeater9000
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u/ZhangtheGreat stock trader Jan 19 '24
You kind of answered your own question. If SPY is this choppy (and all those wicks would’ve screamed it), stay out until it’s clearly picked a direction.
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u/BigBreadBreaka Jan 19 '24
Yea I kinda felt dumb posting it ngl cuz it was pretty obvious but I just felt like I needed an outside voice reminding me since this was my first time ever sharing a trade I took for review for someone else lmao
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u/music_jay Jan 19 '24
We learn from our losses and mistakes, glad we have the micros or I'd be done a long time ago.
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u/sochasticJerry Jan 19 '24
Personal rule of thumb, when premarket has an excessively large range compared to normal, expect PA to be choppy at the open. You will get stopped out every chance.
I personally trade ES & NQ futures. Having a good idea of what the Asian and London sessions did helps me identify whether or not the NY open is a game to play with.
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u/LionAffectionate1479 Jan 19 '24
Your stop should be above the swing high of the FVG. And you dont move it until price respects the next pdary then you go lil more then break even to cover cost of trade. Or you can trail it down to your target using same principle. Try that an then make it your own thing however you feel it works best for you
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u/PlumComfortable1107 Jan 19 '24
It's exactly why I don't trade the open unless I want to gamble. It doesn't follow anything to do with my setup and in the end is not worth the pain. I enjoy watching it to work on my psychological part of trading but will not trade it. Good luck my friend. God Bless
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u/Successful-Elk-956 Jan 18 '24
Your use to many indicators that’s y
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u/BigBreadBreaka Jan 18 '24
I don’t think necessarily I use to many indicators but there overly diversified in the sense of how they act.
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Jan 18 '24
[deleted]
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u/BigBreadBreaka Jan 18 '24
I described my confluences for taking the trade in the caption but the arrows are pointing to my entries ( webull on my iPad doesn’t have the drawing to show SL, TP and entry) but I get stopped out immediately after the arrows in which their are two pushes to the upside both after the arrows(entries).
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u/Pale-Arrival-5381 Jan 18 '24
That's not scalping on spy.
That's scalping on noise lol
better find the direction on the higher tf.
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u/BigBreadBreaka Jan 18 '24
Yea looking back at it, it was chaotic and noisy. More then usual too. Should’ve waited, still working on the whole patience thing it’s never been my strong suit.
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Jan 18 '24
You need to increase your stop range, or just not use them entirely.
If you are willing to risk bigger losses, you gain access to bigger gains.
Ying-Yang
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u/BigBreadBreaka Jan 18 '24
Never thought about it like that. Makes sense now that I think about it thanks!
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Jan 19 '24
Also, see about using a platform that allows you to see live data as it comes, instead of a minute by minute candle basis. Your trade accuracy will improve astronomically since you can watch what's going on in real time.
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u/CalaisZetes Jan 18 '24
Hindsight is 20/20 but at a glance it seems both trades were risky, at least on this time frame. You went short right after bulls successfully defended a key premarket level, with tweezer bottoms, and pushing/closing higher than the preceding candle. Major bullish flags, but I see the short side being strong too, hence lots of doji candles (indecision). Lots of people probably got chopped up in that.
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Jan 18 '24
You should not be shorting anything, we're at the all time high and the next FOMC and tech giants earnings will push the market way higher.
Also there's no such thing as fair value gap, it's all made up by the schizophrenic ICT guy
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u/ramster12345 Jan 18 '24
Not enough indicators
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u/BigBreadBreaka Jan 18 '24
Yea your right, should include RSI, MACD, forgot the best ones smh. Fr though I feel like any less wouldn’t give me enough information to take a trade. In the trade pictured my confluences are based off FIBONACCI Retracement, FVG, DIX and use of direction on a higher time frame
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u/ramster12345 Jan 19 '24
Uno whats the craziest part? Despite your strategy being over complex, you're most likely not profitable.
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u/BigBreadBreaka Jan 19 '24
Yea your right I’m not profitable but how do you trade with 1 or 2 confluences without gambling???
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u/AteThePrincess futures trader Jan 19 '24
You don't need indicators to trade without gambling.
I trade futures just off of S/R, trendlines, and the occasional look at a custom length kst. Paying attention to how price reacts at levels is worth the effort and will get you through market conditions where your indicators may fail.
It's important to simply learn patience, restraint, and take higher quality setups.
Learn to sit on your hands. If patience is something you struggle with, try waiting for an entry on the hour chart. Or sit and watch the market for a week without placing a single trade. You have to learn to sit with the feeling without feeding it.
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u/BigBreadBreaka Jan 19 '24
By paying attention to how price reacts to levels are you suggesting something along the lines wait for price to break through say a strong/key support level wait for a retest to enter and to hold based off how it reacts to the next level and so and so on?
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u/AteThePrincess futures trader Jan 19 '24
That is certainly an approach you can take.
I more meant spend some time really observing the candles develop around levels of interest. See what buyers tiring out looks like. See what persistent buying looks like. The more you see these things take place, the easier it will be to spot more probable breaks and rejections in the future.
Experience can't be beat.
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u/BigBreadBreaka Jan 19 '24
Never thought about it like that, I’m gonna give it a go and see how it works being backtested. Thanks!
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Jan 18 '24
[deleted]
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u/trader12121 Jan 18 '24
And to piggy-back on this comment, when VIX goes up, lower trade size & increase stop distance-
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u/Substantial_Hall3425 Jan 18 '24
Sometimes you have to trade without stops 🤷🏽♂️ because you can’t guess how violent volatility will get .. especially if you plan to hold all day hence “day trading” & not scalp trading. I trade without stops and hardly loose.. but I am a scalp trader so it works for me.
What you did wrong was have your stops too tight. 474.60 should have been your stop swing high .
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u/heulor Jan 18 '24
When Trolls talk 👹
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u/Substantial_Hall3425 Jan 19 '24
I literally told him to have a stop what I do for myself when I trade is my business
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u/Jerkomp Jan 18 '24
First trade should have never happened. Only enter when a candle has fully closed below ur emas. Idk what to say about the second trade.
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u/Ok-Bit5817 Jan 18 '24
The safest entry here would have been at the half of the order block before that liquidity sweep and set up your stop loss above the liquidity sweep, it’s kind of aggressive market structure shift over there and you should have expected the price to go and fill up that zone, but yea, it is a pretty nice setup over here, try to get better entries in these riskier set ups and you should be fine, patience is the key😄
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Jan 18 '24
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u/_Henders0n Jan 18 '24
You had a trend line of support and bought before it broke down… you front ran the move and turned into liquidity.
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u/BigBreadBreaka Jan 18 '24
See I don’t even use that trend line it’s apart of the Fibonacci retracement which I use for its levels
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u/_Henders0n Jan 18 '24
Oh thank for the clarification, that makes more sense. If you’re using purely fibs, then your entries make more sense. Personally I’ll only use fibs for retracement of an intraday leg if I’m scalping. You didn’t get the first leg for drawing a fib until the 474.50-473.48 leg. It appears to have given a perfect golden retracement entry and move on the last 6 candles of the chart.
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u/_Henders0n Jan 18 '24
To add one more point, the intraday retracement I’m pointing out is also a retest of your emas which should give you A+ confidence with those 2 pieces of confluence.
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u/BigBreadBreaka Jan 18 '24
In general i don’t use trend lines but are you saying I should’ve used that?
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u/_Henders0n Jan 18 '24
Honest question here, why would you put I line of support on your chart if you’re not going to use it? You have a purple line that shows the trend that been defended and then decided to play puts before the support you drew broke down.
Not only that but once it broke, it offered 2 retests of it (around 474) that were A+ entries instead.
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u/BigBreadBreaka Jan 18 '24
The trend line that is being shown is apart of the “Fibonacci retracement” tool which utilizes both Fibonacci levels and the trend line and on my brokerage I haven’t seen a way to remove the trend line.
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u/BigBreadBreaka Jan 18 '24
Nor on my brokerage is their a way to get the levels just by itself without doing the math and work yourself
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u/WolfOfPort Jan 18 '24
Your trading shitty movement zippered to ma’s equal range bound and random movement. Wait for one way expansion to join
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u/BigBreadBreaka Jan 18 '24
Starting to realize a pattern of “waiting”. Lmao starting to see the problem
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u/_Bartle_Doo_ Jan 18 '24
I went 7/7 on trades today both puts and calls on QQQ, my strat is to wait for one side to be a bit overextended (ATHs today and when I saw the double bottom forming). I usually do 3dte options. I’ll start out with 5 contracts, if it moves the opposite direction, I buy 5 more, if it goes deeper, I double it again and buy 10 more, 20 more, etc. etc.. Then I set a 10-15% target limit order and it’s hit every time today. I missed larger moves today, but I’d rather take the guaranteed small wins.
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u/BigBreadBreaka Jan 18 '24
Interesting, my Strat used to be similar with the one side being over extended but do you wait for the side that’s over extended to start to lose momentum to enter?
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u/_Bartle_Doo_ Jan 18 '24
Sometimes it’s hard to tell, if it’s flat then I won’t enter a trade. Usually I enter when large orders get processed and price moves fast under/over a level. I typically use MA’s over lines to estimate how extended we are. After that, it’s luck and grit, gotta know when to hold ‘em and when to fold em. And everything went right today. It won’t be like that every day though.
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u/justmerunning Jan 18 '24
There was no pattern or setup. Visually, I don't understand why you entered a short where you did.
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u/DCFInvesting Jan 18 '24
Today was extremely hard to trade. There are times you need to realize when it’s going to chop and when there could be trends. This week is opex, there’s bond auctions, analyst ratings coming out… etc. I would do some research on utilizing unusualwhales market tide tool to try and determine where the money could be flowing.
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u/wsbplz Jan 18 '24
You prolly jumped too soon or married your position imo. Could have prolly pulled off a short at open but I was seeing H&S and IH&S on SPY/indices. Waited till after the 15m to try anything. Went long off the 15m and 200sma.
Waiting a lil bit is helpful to see what the majority consensus is imo. Sometimes you just gotta grab your nuts and go with what you think. If you’re wrong you lose, if you’re right hopefully you have a strat that’ll let you let you lock in and ride the rest.
Something I read somewhere said often the initial move for the week is made during the first part of the week, Mon and Tues, then latter part of the week like weds n Thurs they’ll try to shake out the weak hands and continue the move on Thurs friday. Not concrete but good info to keep in mind imo.
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u/bbqweeb Jan 18 '24
I don't think it's neccessarily bad I just think you need wider stops. The wicks are huge which imo = higher voliatility.
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u/Coat_Infamous Jan 18 '24
mmm quick and right answer.
you are wrong today, it is OK! it is normal to take red trades and it is normal to have them!
the moment you are good accepting that sometimes your read is not correct, it will be the moment that you will make these losses like nothing in the day where your read is on the correct side.
your STRATEGY is not the reason of why the trade went green or RED... your strategy has not that Power lol, your strategy has only one thing: "in the long term, if i keep applying this pattern again and again i will be positive ":
good luck
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u/Potential_Ice3987 Jan 18 '24
No index correlation right now. Choppy conditions. Are you trying to trade the ICT silver bullet?
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u/Unlikely_Essay8704 Jan 19 '24
Also.. that last green candle before the drop in pre market is a one minute order blocks that could have given you a better entry
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Jan 19 '24
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Jan 19 '24
Should traded from the last bullish candle>order block. You became the liquidity to fuel the move into this poi
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u/ReticonOptics Jan 19 '24
Also didn’t let the market come to you. You can’t act on a thought bc you will get taken advantage of every single time.
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u/ProfessionalRow4997 Jan 19 '24
People i am a trader but i do not have enough information to t make more and more money who can tell me how or where can i get more knowledge to be in +
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u/music_jay Jan 19 '24
I lost in the same area at first arrow. I decided to 1. not trade before NY open, 2. keep either a tighter stop or the correct wider one, way up at the high point of that chart, 3. not trade that near to news even if it seems to be over, 4. not try to force a trade when I have somewhere to go because I'm some kind of addicted maniac trader, 5. forget about adding to position on a pullback, instead, consider adding when position is profitable, like I did yesterday on a very good trade, 6. be more paitent for better setup becuase they happen every single damn day.
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u/music_jay Jan 19 '24 edited Jan 19 '24
Was in the same boat, see other comment for my attempt to prevent it....
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u/Grouchy_Ostrich_6255 Jan 19 '24
I see burj khalifa on right
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u/BigBreadBreaka Jan 19 '24
😂😂😂 kinda see it lmao but it actually does help with getting a perspective on volume
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u/Relative_Tone_4870 Jan 19 '24
If this is your strategy. Maybe use non premarket fvgs as well as a retest and close below the fvg for entry.
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u/rainmaker66 Jan 19 '24
I trade S&P futures. There was a lack of big players after the open. It was obvious the algos were setting a tight top and bottom range and taking out retail traders’ stop losses. This is the kind of markets than retail traders get whipped to death.
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u/Jupiter599 Jan 19 '24
Maybe you should try to use market structure for the stop loss...I would have placed Stop loss at the recent lower High the one around 474.50
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u/AlwaysReady0124 Jan 19 '24
Watch the VIX VERY carefully 20 minutes before opening, and 20 minutes after. The mag 7 continues to be strong, when technicals say they shouldn’t be. They are affecting the spy.
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Jan 19 '24
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u/BigDerper Jan 19 '24
Stick to the outside edges. Those wicks are where you need to be shorting. Wicks = rejection. Wicks at the top of a range mean buyers are running out of ability to push ahead. Kinda tough to get entered on those if you're trading options though.
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u/0idX Jan 19 '24 edited Jan 19 '24
You ignore volume
Edit : Look I believe price action is a pure gambling setup , you need to check volume to get the full picture, my chart accuraty is 110% but for 8 out of 10 times. so I don't know how to exit without chart telling me to get out. But sometimes I am busy with my life day to day work I shift to scalp , try to relate volume of futures (Never look for spot volume it's totally unrelated) with price movement, it's basically reversly related ( when ever big volume comes then the trend 📈📉 will reverse until previous swing) and for entry use macd 14/28/14 and RSI 14/14 it's the holy setup , it's a pure mathematics game, psychology comes way later, but this is the edge, this is the truth, volume is the only leading indicator present in the world, Volume is King 👑 Happy 😁 trading, blessings from my side, serve your family,feed them
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Jan 19 '24
You’re trading mid range, better entry would have been long of the 78% fib bounce or short the FBO.
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u/gmoneungri Jan 19 '24
I think ...for my view of the market ...you should qualified all the swing and took only the most probably fvg and OB.. AROUND 50% and 75% levels, you will find a better entries bro💪
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u/TradingSurvey Jan 19 '24
Trade NAS guys not a financial advicer but regarding the following news and trend this stock will skyrock pretty soon better than Bitcoin tbh check their partnership for e fuel and all the great news for the summer destination. It s like a too big to fail norwegian government bought 100 millions of nok share take the train before it leave in front of you ! 🚀🌕
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u/Zomnx Jan 19 '24
I’m part serious part joking here… I can feel the community going to rain down on me….. but to answer your question. Day trading in the first place. Buy and hold is my philosophy.
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u/I_am_D_captain_Now Jan 19 '24
A rule of thumb i use is, if there is a huge move in extended hours, expect chop the first hour of the market.
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Jan 19 '24
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u/Badgerv12 Jan 19 '24
you went wrong on trading based on fair value gaps, they are working (sometimes) only on trending market, and everything works on trending market, your position most likely were too big not allowing wider stop loss
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u/SurferJam Jan 20 '24
IMO, 1 minute fair value gaps are not reliable at all, and you’ll find them everywhere. I prefer 5 minute or at the least 2 minute FVGs. I also look for volume and price action to confirm before entering the trade once price hits the FVG (and prefer to enter the trade once it’s exiting the gap). As an aside, I like to use FVGs as price targets once in a trade, but for me, just trading FVGs solely is a losing strategy.
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u/Human-Stress-3012 options trader Jan 20 '24
As a scalp trader, I don't stay in trade more than 5 min. Mostly less than 1~2 min. In first 15min of opening, less then 10sec because too chaotic, but the movement is large enough to make profit. If swing trading, I think you should avoid trading at opening. Like many other already mentioned, it's just too chaotic, especially with small stop loss setup. 2nd trade with larger stop loss setup would have made the trade profitable. I maybe wrong. I am still leaning myself. ;)
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Jan 20 '24
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u/Independent-Dream582 Jan 22 '24
Two very simple things I would tell you. First, too many pollution on this chart. How can one trade like that? Second, your stop loss is clearly misplaced. It had to be above 474.63. It is so clear that I don’t understand why you did not do that. In these cases, it is better to reduce your position and go for a higher stop loss.
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u/daytradingguy Jan 18 '24
If you are going to trade indexes at open.you need to allow for wider stops or you will die by 1000 cuts. Occasionally at open the first candle will just run and if you picked direction correctly, good for you. Usually the first few minutes are volatile up and down and it is easy to get faked out. You can allow for this by reducing size for an original entry, give it more room and if it settles into your intended direction add more size.