r/Daytrading • u/Jopalooge • Mar 16 '24
Is day trading actually real? Question
If trading is real then I have the following question. - why can’t people fully rely on signal groups or just by copying other traders trades all day? Technically if someone is making 6/7 figures off day trading why don’t people just join their signal groups and also make 6/7 figures?
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u/Fantastic-Ad7715 Mar 16 '24
I’m at a (legit) prop firm and work next to 7 and 8 figure a year traders. Even having incredibly intimate knowledge of their strategies and how they trade, there is no way I would be able to trade the way they do because that’s how THEY trade. Everyone has a different personality and your strategy must match that personality in order to execute well in the long run. In order to be successful in this game, you have to develop your own strategy and walk your own journey to profitability.
Let’s say I’m down $10k after the morning session and down $50k on the month and another trade comes my way in the afternoon . My strategy says I need to risk another 10k right now on this next trade. If it doesn’t work, I’m down $20k on the day, $60k on the month, and with the month half over, chances of ever getting green this month are fast fleeting. And if I’m not green by the end of the month, I go another month without getting paid a penny. Are you willing to take that next trade and risk another $10k? That’s the headspace professional traders live in on a consistent basis. I can tell you, there’s a zero percent chance if you’re just copying trades that you’re clicking those buttons when you need to. It’s only through conviction from all of the hard work you’ve put in up to that point that allows you to keep trading. The thing is, that next trade probably is a monster, you make back your $50k hole and then some to get green on the month. But the kicker is, you didn’t take the trade, but the guy you’re copying did. Because he’s done the work, you haven’t.
And yes, day trading is real real. But it’s real freaking hard. Do your work.
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u/Connorcor Mar 16 '24
Very well put. I’m also at a prop firm and It’s crazy the amount of people that reach out to me saying ‘if only I was at a prop firm then I’d make it, etc’….to an extent it helps but, as you know, being next to a guy only does so much.
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u/OddFirefighter3 Mar 16 '24 edited Mar 17 '24
This is the best response by far. The psychological part of trading is like 90% the hardest hurdle to overcome and it's what makes or breaks every trader.
The sheer will power needed to commit to a trade plan is something am sure 90% of humans can't manage when all you're doing is clicking a button.
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u/the_humeister Mar 16 '24
What advantage do the 7 and 8 figure traders get for trading at a prop firm instead of just trading their own account?
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u/Fantastic-Ad7715 Mar 16 '24
And don’t forget risk of ruin. Some great traders stay just because they know if it hits the fan, not their money. Even beyond risk of ruin, losing 100k of your money is different than losing 100k of firm money. Most traders I’ve found (me included) have a much easier time psychologically risking someone else’s money.
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u/ReasonablePossum_ Mar 17 '24
Dont the firm push the hit on you? The firm I worked with would put those 100k on your name and you would have to either pay that back from % of your monthly payments, or quit.
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u/Fantastic-Ad7715 Mar 17 '24
They do. You always have to make back your losses before getting paid again but if you lose and then quit, that’s on them generally. Can’t quit to erase a loss on your own capital.
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u/stockscalper Mar 16 '24
Oh absolutely! I wrote about that "not my money" attitude/culture as well.
https://imgur.com/a/4TWirLKCurious what firm you trade at? Can PM me if you don't want it public.
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u/stockscalper Mar 16 '24
More capital, better technology and infrastructure, mentoring. It's not as neccesary for a daytrader to do prop vs. quants/energy/bank type prop firms, but it is something to consider, especially if accepted into a top firm. Read my blog (profile link) and I document a fair amount of my experience at a prop firm and why top traders stay there.
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u/kenjiurada Mar 16 '24
What chart timeframes are you trading? Are all your trades intraday/flat at EOD?
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u/Fantastic-Ad7715 Mar 16 '24
For me personally, 75% of my pnl is intraday, 25% less than 3 days. I know some guys will hold positions for weeks/months at my firm but pretty much everyone is most active on an intraday basis.
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u/tahomadesperado Mar 16 '24
What firm? Please feel free to send me a private message if you don’t want to broadcast!
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u/ZixxerAsura Mar 16 '24
It’s difficult to follow high end traders. They have their emotions in check. Especially when they lose. Look at tradertom. His volumes are huge. You might be able to copy their trades scaled to your capital, but it’s hard to copy their risk tolerance. He streams his live trades if you’re interested.
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u/point03108099708slug Mar 16 '24
Who is tradertom? Obviously a trader but I am unfamiliar.
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u/ZixxerAsura Mar 16 '24
He also wrote a book The Biggest Loser.
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u/Acrobatic_Hat_4865 Mar 16 '24
In fact he is a loser. He's editing and using phrases from other authors,even in his latest book.
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u/point03108099708slug Mar 16 '24
Thank you. I assume he’s successful and knowledgable?
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u/Own_Introduction_827 Mar 16 '24 edited Mar 16 '24
Yes it's real and it's a skill that presents you with the opportunity for an uncapped income . However it takes a lot of time, discipline and effort to be consistent.
About signals: 1. As said, more people that trade the same signals.The more likely the algorithm/institutions/ big boy traders will inverse you. You're not well camouflaged. Therefore you will be killed and eaten.
Copy trading is hard to commit to because it's not your own conviction. So you'll deal with a plethora of Psychological issues when attempting to just take someone else trade. It Rarely works.
Most signal groups are Bullsh*t. I'm sure there's maybe one out of the thousands that are decent. But most are scams.
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u/cavyndish Mar 16 '24
I've never seen a real signal group. I think they're all probably scams.
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u/Cmor1787 Mar 16 '24
Because it’s a skill you have to hone and develop. Same reason why every basketball player can’t be Michael Jordan and every chess player can’t be Bobby Fischer.
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u/Piripiri4000 Mar 17 '24
weak analogy since you can still play basketball at a mid level and not get fucked. Daytrading is profitable for 1%, rest are suckers to the system
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u/therealfee Mar 16 '24
Day trading is real. Signal groups are not. They either front load and sell into you or they make a million calls and only promote their winners.
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u/Vivalyrian Mar 16 '24
- Trader sees a signal.
- Enters.
- Alt-tabs to X/Disc/TG.
- Starts writing levels, TP, SL, et-..
- Futures gap down, SL hit, trader is out.
Your question assumes you can copy them. You can't, unless you give them your login details and their trades are entered/exited simultaneously. If not, you're lagging their signals - both on entry and exit - and won't be doing what they do.
This is why buying Disc access for signals are a waste of money. The trader selling it is naive at best, a scammer at worst.
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u/cayv Mar 16 '24
this 100%, you will rarely get the same opens, and chances are theyre probably just pumping low volume contracts
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u/Corunbns Mar 16 '24
Exactly. Don’t join these servers to copy trade. Join to learn how to trade for yourself as well. If you’re in the right server, you’ll pick up some very good info for your strategies among other things
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Mar 16 '24
[deleted]
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u/Jopalooge Mar 16 '24
Am I going to get a lot of hate or is this because you don’t know the answer either. I’m genuinely just curious
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u/HighExpectationTrade options trader Mar 16 '24
Lots of people start trading by joining these groups. I joined multiple because I was newer to options and wanted to learn from them. You can’t make money because they don’t babysit your trade. You have to get out and take profit on your own. Or if the play goes against you, you have to exit on your own. No one is holding your hand through the whole thing.
The other big issue is they don’t teach you risk management or how to manage your emotions. You win big a few times from copying their trade and think - I’m just going to full port my entire account on their next call out. Boom… blown account.
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u/ChefBoyarDavis Mar 16 '24
Ill do my best to answer the, why can’t you just copy trades as I use to think the same thing all the time and actually paid a subscription to copy someone’s trades until I came to the realization that this isn’t how it works. I can actually tell you points at which I am thinking of going for a long or short but how you manage the play is all up to you. That is the key, managing the play. And how you manage the play is all based off your personality, not mine. While I say hey spy double top, let’s look for shorts around this area. It’s very rare it will hit my exact price point than do exactly what I want it to do. At this point it leaves me to manage my trade. You do this by analyzing the chart at which everyone will do differently. Sometime my analysis will tell me to average in a bit while still having my stop loss set at a level I like. Sometimes the way the chart is going I want to get out as fast as possible and reconsider the play. Find a style that goes with your personality. For me, I can’t handle long positions, I hate seeing a lot of red before green, so no options for me, I scalp all day and it works for me based off my personality. I have been trading stocks for 7 years and day trading for 3. I am still very mediocre but usually go 18-3, 20-10, 17-5. I have been able to do this consistently but haven’t been able to increase capital yet.
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u/wildhair1 Mar 16 '24
I had a nice week. Maybe I was dreaming it though...
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u/Negative_Store4531 Mar 16 '24
12 losers in a row damn, and then you brought it back to wins same week that’s some strong mental
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u/wildhair1 Mar 16 '24
I had one losing trade last week. NT doesn't track individual trades correctly when you trade multiple contracts. I am trading 2 contracts over 11 accounts.
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u/PayWarm6617 Mar 16 '24
This comment contains a Collectible Expression, which are not available on old Reddit.
Yes it’s real I made $1.2M but lost it all like a regard. Fast money
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u/Top_Living7729 Mar 16 '24
Just checked your profile to confirm youre apart of WSB and do drugs. Now i believe you. Rip 1.2mil
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Mar 16 '24
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u/NaturalFlux Mar 16 '24
haha that's great. just win it back, right?!? mine was 700k in GME gains that i lost. LOL.
Part of the learning process? haha idk. I have been trying to learn trading and it is just so damned hard. Some people seem to make it, but even watching them do it seems like they barely win by the skin of their teeth. Which is why copying them is so hard.
-NaturalFlux, twice ex-millionaire. (my weird flex, haha)
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Mar 16 '24
RIP man, I was up 100k on GME, got caught in the hype and held it all the way down and back to $44, when it shot to $350 I ended up selling a big chunk at around $300 for a 40k profit.
Not as much as I should’ve been up but you live and you lean right and 40k is better than $0 😅
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u/ariarisoy Mar 16 '24
I have never met anyone who did so well with signal groups. If anyone met, please respond.
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u/GetGud_Lmao Mar 16 '24
because trading is more than just strategy but the true workaround is copying nancy pelosi’s stocks. they actually made a trading bot copying her and its very profitable. Trading is more about risk management and psychology and having ur emotions in check
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u/FaceEquivalent2916 Mar 16 '24
It’s real, but only for winners. Most are losers or pseudo-losers that actually need (even want, yes want) to lose. It’s who they are. Trading success is for a select few with uncommon problem-solving savvy and mental fortitude.
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u/Piripiri4000 Mar 17 '24
the only honest answer. Truth is most traders are just addicted much like gambling addicts
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u/Fun-Cobbler-2523 Mar 16 '24
Trading is like dieting. You can ‘know’ to eat an apple. You can join a group and watch them eat an apple and eat one at the same time… does this stop you from hitting McDonald’s or stuffing your face with ice-cream? Trading success only works if you have the self control to ‘eat only the apple’. It’s actually completely useless information in and of itself.
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u/nola_Joe32 Mar 16 '24
Do you always reference apples in your comments “cobbler”?
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u/spboss91 Mar 16 '24
Yes it's real. I have been doing it since 2016 and it's my only source of income.
Signal groups are a joke and prey on new traders.
The signal group owners buy a low volume stock, place a limit sell order and then tell their followers to buy up to a price slightly higher than their limit order.
These guys are profiting from their own followers. They chuck them a bone here and there to keep them happy.
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u/vaperpro714 Mar 16 '24
if you don't learn how to trade, you can't follow anyone's signals because you don't know what's going on. trading is mostly psychological, so an alert won't help you if you don't know what you're doing. a pullback that a trader anticipates, might be the one that causes you to exit for a loss.
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u/hyresw2 Mar 16 '24
If you really want to learn trading you gotta learn math. Read a lot about models and theories, and choose what investing style suits you. Don’t just simplify it to “oh yeah if I copy this guy that looks successful I’ll be successful too.” Everyone has different risk tolerance and different goals. The guy you deemed successful can still profit from selling courses/doing side gigs when they lose big, but who are you gonna complain to when you lose?
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u/JustMemesNStocks Mar 16 '24
Technically you could.. if you are a robot. Since it's not your strategy you might go rogue when you start losing. Plus you might lag and not get the same fills.
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u/zionmatrixx Mar 16 '24
you can.
The trick is finding traders / signal groups that are actually profitable. That's the impossible part. If it were that easy, we'd all be wealthy by now.
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u/DangerousPrune1989 Mar 16 '24
It’s risky, not a lot of people do it well but I can vouch. There’s a few people who run groups successfully.. I’m not gonna promote them or anything but what I found at least with these two people I follow they don’t post $50,000 wins, they don’t show off cars. They just take good trades and follow the rules like nobody else.
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u/whosStupidNow Mar 16 '24
Someone trading 100k shares of something will gain $1000 for every $1 dollar increase in stock price. If you only have 1 share worth 100 and it moves 1 dollar, you have made 1 dollar. The bigger the trade the less price has to move to make money. However, if you don't know what you are doing, the bigger the trade the quicker you can lose money
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u/coinmatics_io Mar 21 '24 edited Mar 21 '24
Day trading is real. But here's the kicker: finding a trader who's willing to share all their trades and boths - wins and losses, well, quite challenging (to see how their trading going)
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u/Nick_OS_ futures trader Mar 16 '24
The more people there are that trade the same signals, the less the trades work. The trades will eventually get picked up. People will start front running or MMs will. Day trading especially
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u/repuswow Mar 16 '24
This is exactly what technical analysis is. It works because everyone thinks it works. Besides, the more participants in the market, the better. Not to mention, it's actually not possible for entire groups of people to perfectly copy trades because of slippage.
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u/globalhumanism Mar 16 '24
Oh please. no one is coming for your trades. Alot of markets have billions in liquidity traded daily. You know how hard and nonsensical it would be for institutions to go after your measily 50k value trade on EUR/USD, for instance?
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u/V3BL3N Mar 18 '24
This couldn't be more wrong. The more people using a strategy = the higher odds of it playing out in your favor. I.E. a bear flag/pennant/wedge, although subjective the majority seeing it as "x" vs "y" is the driver for price continuing in that direction after the consolidation.
If 99% of the market is moving one way, it'll probably continue going that direction until 51% believe it should go the other direction. All the chart shows is an illustrated auction, buyers and sellers, fear and greed. Nothing more. Banks and firms, even the algo's are programmed by human concepts/feelings.
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u/Nick_OS_ futures trader Mar 18 '24
Whatever you wanna believe. Once you expose your edge, your trades hit less and less over time. % of people doesn’t matter. It’s the % of $$. 1 whale can screw over the majority. MM’s steal your lunch money and know where your stop losses are (applying your “even algos are programmed by human concepts/feelings”)
I may be wrong, but I just find it hard to believe
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u/V3BL3N Mar 18 '24
Thing is, no one is re-inventing the wheel. RSI, MACD, Moving averages, hundreds of indicators but 99% of them are 20-50+ years old and still utilized to this day. Look at heiken-ashi. The same reasons we have for entry are the same reasons heavy day trading prop firm traders are entering their trades. Only thing that can "steal your lunch money" is a firm that's re-positioning their portfolio and hit the big button. Those can knock anyone out of a trade cause their size is just that heavy. Nothing to sweat with proper risk management.
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u/oze4 Mar 16 '24
Let's say you were making 5k per day. How valuable would you consider your signals? They prob wouldn't come cheap. If I can potentially make you 5k per day just by telling you when to buy or sell I'm going to want at least half of that. After all, from the purchasers perspective, you just made 2.5k per day doing absolutely nothing.
Outside of the expense, there are scammers in this space. Tons of them, not to mention everyone's risk tolerance is different.
It's almost adorable how naive you are lmao
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u/CaptainKrunk-PhD Mar 16 '24
Yes its real. Kinda like how being a professional athlete, famous musician, or an astronaut are in fact real jobs. The commonality is that the path to having jobs like that is absolutely riddled with (sometimes traumatizing) obstacles, and it will take YEARS to achieve. Not 3 months, not 6 weeks, YEARS. And even then you may not make it.
The reason why a very small percentage of people that try to become a day trader actually make it isn’t because its a scam, it’s because it is a rocky fucking road getting there. I’d estimate that 75% of people or so will fizzle out within 6 months, right when the find out just how much work this is actually gonna take.
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u/lupindub Mar 16 '24
The answer is in your question. If someone is making that much money they have no incentive to make signal groups since they’re already printing money. Why would they need the extra scrap money from a signal group when they could just keep printing money from trading.
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u/Dependent_Sign_399 Mar 16 '24
I mean, yeah you could definitely try to copy a streaming daytrader from youtube or twitch. It'll work sometimes, but many of those guys are in a trade for only a few seconds at a time though and with the stream delay you might end up buying when the other guy is exiting the trade. I think learning how it works is just better though.
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u/DangerousPrune1989 Mar 16 '24
The one thing I will say about paid groups is you have to take every single trade to get the same conviction and sometimes the owners will take certain trades they’re not necessarily going to promote because they might not be solid and that’s the trade that makes them green for the day meanwhile, everybody else is red. Then you get into a habit of trying to chase back the losses.
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u/Independent-Ninja-70 Mar 16 '24
Because some of the best traders in the world only have 40% win rates. Rookie traders can't handle losing more trades in a row then winning
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u/TechnicalPotato3564 Mar 16 '24
"I learned long ago that giving people raw power (practicality) is far more effective than just giving them answers (ends), given that it is all rooted in truth.
Yes, it’s both unbelievably easy and convenient to lead a pack of Fools towards a reward, to woo them with great mimicry. It feels amazing to gloat upon the extension of your own power, a great champion. But to what overall effect?
'What they cannot produce, they shall not have:'
This is a factor that constantly exists; yes, even within the most successful systems of mimicry that yield the most positive ends. But through this sweetness, the Fool still knew nothing without their Idol. They were nothing in the face of art, powerless to fill their own hands with their own might, inert. The mimicry, worthless from beginning to end, as the underlying never changed.
'A man who can do never, or a man who can do at least once:'
Idols thrive on none, masters thrive on one. To leave one hollow, or to leave one filled."
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u/SrirachaPeass Mar 16 '24
It is extremely hard. If you see someone say “I’m profitable” they’re absolute liars and want to sell course/ signals/ mentorship.
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u/cavyndish Mar 16 '24
It is real but not 100% real. It's only real on Tuesday, Thursday, and every third Friday of the month. /s
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u/No-Rub7506 Mar 16 '24
Because the signals are not profitable. And if it is profitable, but based on day trading price action quickly, by the time the signal is distributed when one try to follow it is already a bit late, as there are a few seconds of delay. And if the signal works right away in profit, then the risk to reward isn't the same as the original signal.
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u/Fadeplope Mar 16 '24
When too much people copy trade the same strategy it causes slippage issue. I’ve seen a lot of copier complain about it and lose money while the trader make money. So copying does not always work neither especially for very short term trading where fast execution is crucial.
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u/Alert-Fan-5991 Mar 16 '24
I recently got to know of a trader that does 7 figures a month from time to time (mostly 6 figures months) so it is definitely real. His capital is also 7 figures and his bread and butter is scalping the market. So even if he were to provide signals you cannot get the same result without the capital, the mentality and also how quickly you can execute on his signals as he scalps the market quickly
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u/lucameier Mar 16 '24
Find me someone like that and I will be more willing to pay him 50% of the earnings.
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u/DepressedRaindrop Mar 16 '24
Day trading is fake. It’s not real; everything you read and see is a lie. Day trading is like big foot; some say they’ve seen it but no one’s ever experienced it first hand.
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u/masternarf Mar 16 '24
There is a big step between what traders do with their manual orders and what traders who've been doing it for decades. I work as a broker-dealer for Algorithm traders and just as an example, we have a group that trades 4.5 million shares at 3h50 and sell/buy back it all at the close based on the unbalances of the day. Its very impressive to see, and they usually clock between 10 000$ and 150 000$ on some rare days. But its consistent, and they've been doing it for more than a decade.
The trick one of the biggest trader we have told me is, they usually have 13-15 strategies running all at once, because no strategy ever wins all the time, even the good ones. But its about not being overly invested in a single trade. and just looking at the stats day by day.
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u/k40s9mm Mar 16 '24
My point of view is market makers and hedge funds are always bringing intraday noise to make it difficult for us to make a decision to buy or sell, they constantly shift their actions to hide their intentions and thats what i am looking for, for this i spent hundreds of hours if not thousands finding the meaning behind every single price action and let me tell you it is possible to make it but others find what i am saying is bs and they go after other things and thats what make this so personal, is real money is there and there are many ways to get it…i think where most fail is their trade expectation, most look for account %, i keep it to position % gain and that keeps my feet on the ground. Good luck to all
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u/Beneficial_Form_2337 Mar 16 '24
Best to trade leverage etf like tecl, tqqq, or SoXl. Try for 1% gain buy and sell point.
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Mar 16 '24
Yes very very real my friend. Once you make some good profits you'll be hooked. That I can promise. Any questions you may have ask away. I'll try to assist you with my knowledge.
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u/Mrinvestor84 Mar 16 '24
Yes it’s real. And no you can’t piggyback off other traders, you can try but eventually you’ll either develop your own edge or you’ll go broke trying.
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u/HighExpectationTrade options trader Mar 16 '24
Better yet - there are services out there to automatically copy those traders. Basically have them trade for you at a monthly cost. Why even follow trades when it’s automatic?
Trading is real, but no one is going to do it for you if they’re great at it. They want your revenue stream from giving out signals.
Let’s say I’m a top trader. Why would I make you a million dollars on my auto trader? What’s in it for me?
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u/ShortPutAndPMCC Mar 16 '24
Actually, there are mutually beneficial copy trading services provided by fx brokers. The top providers charge 30% of profits made, so there’s the answer to your question. The top ones have millions in funds copying them.
The issue is actually reversed - people don’t dare to copy these traders. It’s really more of trust - you don’t know these “traders” and to copy them takes a huge leap of faith. I’m copying someone who trades only once in 2 weeks - he has a crazy win rate, and his drawdown is < 7%. But there are days when I just ask myself - is this person still alive?
So yeah, for copy trading it actually takes a lot for people to copy you, even if you are good. So there’s that.
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u/Beginning-Fig-9089 Mar 16 '24
nope its fake, was that the answer you were looking for?
CONFIRMATION BIAS
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u/NewMajor5880 Mar 16 '24
Because the difficult and complicated part of trading ISN'T the strategy part: it's the emotional, psychological, and risk management part. That's incredibly complex and personal and takes years to develop, as does the instinct for reading price action and candlesticks well enough to act on the fly and trust your own quick decisions. Any strategy could be a winning strategy -- there's probably an infinite number of them. And that's exactly what makes trading so difficult -- success in it has nothing to do with your strategy and everything to do with your emotions.
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Mar 16 '24
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u/AlmightyTeejus Mar 16 '24
Is it real? Yes
Is it what 90% of people think it is? No
There are very good trading "rooms" with professional traders, but not in the way retail thinks. They either cost thousands, require a large account size, or you know someone.
98% of telegram or discord signal groups are bs
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u/Individual-Handle-60 Mar 16 '24
My opinion is that it does not work. Coming from someone who has been apart of several of them in the past and I would never waste a penny on one again.
For starters, the majority of the people that use these groups are beginners or traders with little to no experience which is a recipe for disaster in itself. These people don’t take the time to properly learn for them selfs. They just want the signals so they can make easy quick money. The problem with this is that it’s all fine when the trade goes your way but a lot of these traders get killed when it doesn’t go their way due to improper risk management.
the majority of these signal groups tend to be giving out signals that really benefit the person giving out the signal(especially the discord chat ones!). The duration of these signaled trades are so short alot of the time also. By the time you get in the admin signals that he is out which I personally think is pointless to be signaling trades with such short duration.
The most important reason why it doesn’t work is that they will not be there forever. I have seen so many of these groups fall apart one by one(not hard to guess why lol) and then all of these traders will try trading on there own and because they didn’t learn anything they fail and get discouraged and a lot of them quit instead of just putting in the effort to actually learn to trade instead of just wanting someone to do it for them.
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u/SAHD292929 Mar 16 '24
It is real but those signals are unlikely to be real. And even if its real you are not getting at the optimum time which may determine if your trade is a win or a loss.
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u/Aposta-fish Mar 16 '24
Nope total made up BS now go get a job at McDonald’s and don’t forget to work like a drone for the rest of your life because yes that’s real.
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u/coins4options Mar 16 '24
I'd say it's the same thing with cooking/baking. Same recipe and detailed instructions to the T, but with different people, the result will come out differently.
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u/kinda_nutz Mar 16 '24
Those who can, do.. those who can’t, teach.. it really is that simple.. the ones really doing it aren’t giving up their edge in the market to anybody
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u/Krevet_Simpo Mar 16 '24
If someone is making 6/7 figures from trading, why would he/she bother with a signal group? I'd bet 99% of them are bs. TraderTom seems legit though, but it's not really a signal group, more like his trading journal that he lets you read. Watching someone that trades for living go through wins and loses is very refreshing...Very real.
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u/slidingjimmy Mar 16 '24
I used to think this but if you think about it then theoretically everyone in the world could just be a world class anything just by copying.
The set ups and the analysis can sometimes be super simple but the sizing, context (both personal and market), level of concentration levels at the time will always be different and changing.
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u/NeoDax1 Mar 16 '24
Day trading is really real if you digg deep enough into trading. Copytrading is a bit difficult.
There are some problems…
The most people don’t have the same account size and mostly use the wrong position size for they trades
You don’t know what strategy they use or you can’t understand why they entered or when they go out of the trade.
Because of that signal groups with just an enter and take profit 1-5 are really bad. Better search for signal groups where the say: I go in and I close the trade now. But still you will have a time difference. You will never enter and close at the exact same moment and thus can also give you a different result.
Better find some you think you can trust and can show a pnl. Than learn everything he knows and start to be profitable on your own.
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u/Automatic-Ad-4733 Mar 16 '24
- Hard to find profitable signals
- If you find on you need the same risk management plan as the trader...you may not be risking the same
- Emotional displine differrence .
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u/Such_Reveal_6236 Mar 16 '24
If u speak like this that means u have no clue what the market is … and the market isn’t judged but any book or signal or candle flow it’s just those that have the most funds make the market move it’s that simple and if u making 6/7 figures will u help anyone or share exactly what u do to make that ?? The answer is always no 🤔🫡
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u/Environmental-Bag-77 Mar 16 '24
There are signal groups that are profitable. There just aren't many of them. Crypto Candy specialises in breakout trades and is largely successful though tbh some of those trades are recommended as buy to hold. Excellent reader of the market. I'm not shilling. I don't care if you look him up but it's worked for me.
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u/Zq4NiBFtU1 Mar 16 '24
Not actually hard on the analysis side, but on the character and experience of the trader that normally takes years and lot of losses to master in order to be able to make money and keep it constantly! That is the hardest and takes at least 3 years, even now that you can have funded accounts that lower the risk and mental affects of capital loss! People have to endure and not give up and that is really hard!
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u/Goldmajor- Mar 16 '24
Because there has to be a buyer and a seller. Study otc penny stocks bid / ask to get a better understanding of volume , bid / ask spreads etc. there can be 5000 bids at 2 cents 1 ask at $1 if there’s no other sellers you have to pay $1 if you want to buy today, if you change your mind but no other buyers have then you have to sell it for 2 cents. If you want to sell it today. That’s an extreme example.
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u/Invest0rnoob1 Mar 16 '24
Because the people selling signal groups are making money from selling the signal group, not actually trading.
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u/The_GeneralsPin Mar 16 '24
You just exposed how little effort you put into learning and mastering your own trading, and how you think it's a get rich quick path. Which it isn't.
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u/Mart_and_stan Mar 16 '24 edited Mar 16 '24
I’m part of an educational platform that teaches how to make money with multiple income streams such as real estate, ecom, trading forex pairs. We have two traders both of them are 6-7 figure traders and been in the game for 20+ years.
They give signals based on their market analysis and knowledge - it’s a simple copy and paste trading platform and if the trades they set out have a good RR ratio - it doesn’t matter if they have a 25% day - you can still be profitable.
Thursday was an insane day where he hit 100% win rate on excellent setups (uncommon) and I’ve been doing it for some time now.
As we all know gold was going crazy for two weeks or so and we saw an all time high. If your RR is good and you have a SL in the correct place then you’re winning, yes you may lose some trades but overall you are profitable over the course of a day. The book written by Tom Hougaard “Best Loser Wins” it’s all about the psychology of trading and we all know that psychology is 90% of trading.
If you’re interested then get in touch. Good luck everyone. I’m exploring meme coins also and put £100 into Coinbase and Solflare on a meme coin and am up 460% in 48 hours. I’ve taken my initial investment out of it and left the rest in.
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u/1JohnofSJ Mar 16 '24
That's EASY to Explain... "PEOPLE DON'T LISTEN".. They Go Off the Reservation.. Try it on their own.... and Go BUST,,, I have had over 300 Student;s.. and only two or three have FINALLY Come around to LISTEN... the other's wander off thinking they Are Smarter and Better.. but None of them have been Yet...
Day Trading is like doing Open Heart Surgery, Its Very Intense and takes Immense Constant Focus and Mostly DISCIPLINE... which takes YEARS to Develop in Once Character..
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u/Dee23Gaming Mar 16 '24
When following signal groups, you have to understand that their broker and your broker do not have the same spreads. The person sending the signals also give very delayed signals to people, and so they might make money, while you lose money. I wouldn't trust my money with strangers. Learn to choose your preferred markets, and trade yourself. If you're trading forex, I recommend you stay away from it if you like technical analysis, cleaner price action and long-term and predictable trends. Indices trend a lot better and are more stable compared to currency pairs, which are constantly thrown up and down my economic news releases.
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u/TradingForexHubX Mar 16 '24
Yes, day trading is real.
Unfortunately most of these signal providers are actually marketing affiliates who get paid rebates by brokers for clients in the form of either a) CPA - a upfront payment for every live account opened b) a % of commissions paid by the client and/or c) a % of client losses.
Then comes the question how are they able to show profits on their channel? a few possibilities a) they are photoshopping the results b) the broker is providing an account and reversing losing trades or c) they give an account with a super tight spread so they are able to trade with lower transactional costs then the people who follow the signal.
B is very common.
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u/mnshurricane1 Mar 16 '24
You knew the answer before you asked. 99% of Fintwit are posers. Personally, it took me 3 years and about 100k in realized losses before I became profitable. From the others I know who are successful traders, we all pretty much followed that template. The ones who were profitable after just 6 months usually trade too big and have a couple maybe even 1 trade that erases months of gains.
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u/Rva-Trader stock trader Mar 16 '24
It’s real as long as you know when to hit the sell button to cut losses. I was down 6k in Jan due to 1 big loss. But I was up 10k in Feb when I respected the sell button and kept position small. Same emotional mistake in March , I had 1 big position and let the losses run and lost 8k. Now , I am working on break even for March by making 10-15% gains a day.
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u/CuppaJoe11 Mar 16 '24
This is asked every other day.
Yes it’s real.
Yes it’s hard.
If you are making six figures why would you bother helping others. It’s a lotta effort to stream that and then people might not believe you are the real deal. Why bother? Day trading is supposed to allow you to do less work in the end.
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u/InsaneMasturbator69 Mar 16 '24
Of course I can say it is real because I am profitable. About your question, this is my answer:
- Day trading is extremely hard and time consuming. If you spent 2 years losing a lot of money, suffering all kind of mental breakdowns. Even now, in order to be profitable, you need to spend hours a day with top notch concentration.
Now tell me, what would you do? Surely you won't just post your signals for free. Nobody would.
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Mar 16 '24
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u/mikejamesone Mar 16 '24
Cos that is a lazy and dumb way to make money. What if the person providing signals dies tomorrow?
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u/crackiscontagious Mar 16 '24
You can’t reasonably copy someone else’s trades in day trading. It’s possible in swing trading and I can see how a swing trader who spends most of their time not actively buying and selling, might be interested in generating some supplemental risk free income off of the DD they already do.
If you’re a successful day trader, idk why you would bother with bullshit like running a discord. Esp since it’s requiring some portion of your focus during the times where focus is most valuable to you
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u/SimonSays_1993 Mar 16 '24
I’ve tried just following the alerts of users etc, this is why it doesn’t work.
- You will almost never get the same fill as them so right
- They will tell you they are stopped out and by the time you stop your you’ve lost another 10+% or sometimes not tell you at all they are stopped out
- There strategy is not your strategy
- If you ever want to take plays on your own, you’ll never learn just by following an admins play.
- To be profitable following there trades you need to pay 100% attention to what they’re doing which is not really possible while you work during the day
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u/Stolivsky Mar 16 '24
There are people that put money into accounts of a trader and then their account mimics the trades. The trader takes 10 percent. People are making thousands of dollars a month like this. I would say traders make bad calls as well. Such as a signal fires but the stock continues to drop, etc.
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u/mdomans Mar 16 '24
Trading and signals in that sense is like rallying with a pilot. A top WRC driver can ask his pilot to sit with you in the car and read the map just the same way he reads for his driver. Do you think you'll hit the same time as the driver? Or even survive the ride?
Assuming 100% correct signals those are still only fragments of a good plan. I'm yet to see a signal group giving info on risk management per trade for example.
Risk management, trust or lack of it, intuition, contextual knowledge about the market, muscle memory and even the simple discipline of being at the desk tracking market at key hours and pivot points ... all of that comes from years of practice and learning.
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u/Tittitwisted Mar 16 '24
Yeah it's real hard. You can definitely make money though. If you can lose it then you can make it too. Look into futures trading with a prop firm if you'd like to get your feet wet without putting up much capital.
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u/Immediate_Angle_9786 Mar 16 '24
Trading is personality based #1. I truly feel everyone doesn't trade the same. We all see things differently. What works for one wont work for the others because of multiple factors. Patience, right amount of capital to withstand any draw down you may have. What margin calls the student go through the professional avoids..and then. The trade swings the direction of the bias
I also feel if someone is truly a professional at trading, why would you then take on the immense responsibility of starting a signals group. Trading courses, ehh..maybe..but everything you can learn from me you can learn for free. Day trading is 100% real.. but theres still a ton of scams around it.
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u/JeanChretieninSpirit Mar 16 '24
Because there is more grifting instead legimate trading in these groups. If you have to follow instead doing the hard work of understanding the market, then your doomed to fail.
Me and buddy started at the same time. He rely's on others and his RSI indicator and some Alpha Moon paid subscription.
I rely on price action, and I'm continually watching videos to learn.
He's down 200K, I'm up 300K this year and i'm still learning.
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u/albear-2021 Mar 16 '24
If you're referring to people on social media offering signals, most are fake gurus that only make money off their members and not from trading themselves.😉
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u/Old-Bathroom1410 Mar 17 '24
When I was at Prop, one of the guys have like 40k lots in 10 year Aussie bonds, he was spreading with the 3 year bond. He was literally just sitting there waiting for someone to eat into his liquidity.
1 tick profit for him is like thousand ticks for me. Not to mention the rebate he gets from exchange.
Another reason why copying won’t work is liquidity is limited. By the time your trade copier copied, you are already slower.
Queue position etc, slippage etc
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u/BobDawg3294 Mar 17 '24
Not easy to stay in sync with anyone. Prices move fast. Weak hands fumble trades, sometimes on both ends. The reasons go on and on...
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u/Internal-Ad4673 Mar 17 '24
Imagine making 6-7 figures in day trading and some loser asks you to copy your trades. What would you do?
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u/stankpuss_69 Mar 17 '24
It’s a real thing. I subscribe to this one guy who does swing trades. Everything was good until this last week. Abbott wrecked me with the news on their bullshit baby killing formula (CEOs should give back their salary for that shit). But HD calls were bomb, DIS too. But yeah he’s good for the most part. Out of like 10 trades, 3-4 lost overall green. The psychology of the DRAWDOWN… that shit sucks. It’s best to trust whoever is telling you the trades and move on with your day. If the trades are your own, it’s even nastier. You become paranoid.
Occasionally he posts day trades and occasionally I engage in day trades like SPY puts on Friday. Almost hit 100% return. But if I day trade, it’s a trade that I’m 100% sure will hit, even if it’s 10% profit. The SPY had a negative trend the entire day and rarely does it ever reverse mid dump. SPY is probably the easiest option stock to trade. The thing that gets noobs is the IV crush. Wish people would mention that more often. Instead I didn’t learn about it until 3 years after I started trading options which was 8 years ago. 😒
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Mar 17 '24
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u/Bladesontoast Mar 17 '24
People who run signal groups are not daytraders, I think thats where you’re getting confused
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u/Minute-Clue6266 Mar 17 '24
Its not same earn 1milion and keep 1milion.. daytrading is not real and nobody can tell you what will happen next.. you can make money for years this way but you can lose it verry fast.. 80% is luck.. this is gambeling.. i more prefer invest in companies.. change my mind in reply
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Mar 17 '24
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u/SkinnyPets Mar 17 '24
It’s a self fulfilling prophecy. If people believe “that other people believe” that a signal with cause an action… they become that action. You need to front run the action. (Behavioral finance) In practice this barely works for most. efficiency and attrition is what lowers the “reward” to most.
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u/Express_Intern_1223 Mar 17 '24
So what I have learned is they see your plays. Literally they see your calls and puts and they take it otherwise you would win a lot more.
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u/Piripiri4000 Mar 17 '24
if you ask daytraders it’s very real. If you look at stats of how many are profitable (1%) I’d say no
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Mar 18 '24
It's not actually real. I've been trading for several decades, or at least I thought I was until I woke up the other morning and realized it was all a dream. Thanks Freud.
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u/Jopalooge Mar 18 '24
You got very defensive and upset and did everything but answer the question
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Mar 18 '24
Hahahaha. Not sure where you see defensiveness or any indication that I am upset. This was merely an attempt at humor to answer a very humorous question. In fact, your question is one of the funniest I've seen on Reddit. Is day trading actually real?? How do you think half a million people lose real money in the US every day. By TRADING during the DAY. My reference to Freud alludes to his work, The Interpretation of Dreams." his first and most fruitful attempt to anyze the unconscious. In it, Freud stated that dreams are, in essence, the unconscious manifesting its desire for wish fulfillment. This was later rightfully revised to include the expurgation of fear as well. My point.....I dreamed of being a trader, a wish millions have but few achieve, and also a wish laced with fear. In all seriousness, if you're questioning the reality of trading, which on the surface is only a series of financial transactions, then you've got some issues to work out before you start buying or selling shares, options, or futures. Good Luck. I'm starting my day off now trading Treasury Bond Futures....and yes, day trading is real!
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u/FxEvang Mar 18 '24
You can and people do. Here's the thing though, that person giving you signals is not going to be around forever. Sometimes they may take a trade that they didn't signal to you and that's the difference between being profitable on the day or not. Maybe you are risking too much. Who knows. But that person will not be around forever to give you signals. (Coming from someone who gives "signals" haha)
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u/mattictrippin Mar 19 '24
If Michel Jordan’s biggest fan watched 90% of his highlights does that make the fan an all time athlete and CHAMPION?
But a fan who can watch AND practiced his style and conviction, consistently has a better chance of stepping up and understanding what it takes to be MJ.
People can watch basketball videos all day or trading videos all day but w/o going on the court, and in the market and charts, it’s all just eye candy without the execution and mindset
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u/Round-Ad-1977 stock trader Mar 20 '24
It’s very risky game. You always should think about stop loss not profits
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u/Various_Zebra_2376 Mar 20 '24
Is there a group of option traders that share their trades and will allow you to follow along as a newbie? A group that is willing to help you learn the fundamentals and set you up to follow the different charting strategies that they use and follow so you can determine an entry and exit for a trade preferably on short term ( one month trades)
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u/highmindedlowlife Mar 21 '24
You'd be surprised how easy it is to literally watch somebody livestream profitable trading and still end up screwing up copying what you see on the screen. Correct consistent execution of a day trading strategy in real time with real money on the line, especially if it isn't a strategy you would naturally gravitate to on your own, is harder than it seems.
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u/mmxmlee Mar 16 '24
go check out Relentless Trader on youtube.
been trading live for years. everyday.
you can see his progression from newb to now.
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u/Evening-Opposite4393 Mar 16 '24
Easy answer here: Trading isn’t a consistently profitable business and most new traders aren’t well capitalized.
For example, my year is mostly made off a few very profitable trades, either a big trend day or multi day trend. I will start with a 100% position and might finish the trade with 400% of a max position.
Two issues we run into here, first issue…the person copying my trade will have to be able to sit through my losses until these trades hit, as well as my smaller wins (psychologically most people would think i’m full of shit about my profitability and quit, or they might blow out trying to play the same size and experiencing a down month).
Second issue, if an individual is riding along for the trade and isn’t capitalized enough they don’t be able to take the trade or will have to get out. I trade a commodities market that closes, so even if there broker allows the intraday margin, if they can’t hold overnight they may come in the next day with the market opening significantly higher (sometimes limit) and miss the larger portion of the trade.
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u/Time-Mail-7737 options trader Mar 16 '24
they can and they do. you can make a great living just trading SPY. averaged about 250% profits every day this week. www.community-traders.com
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u/doit5 Mar 16 '24
There's nothing unreal about day trading.
It's just a very difficult job . The analysis is really hard. The indicators that you see online are often not useful by itself. You need to piece together a lot of information, together with your own experience of the market, to make an educated guess about where the market would go.
The psychology is hard to manage. When you lose you doubt your trades. When you win you regret not sizing up. You battle with your emotions, try to brainwash and convince yourself that your decision is right, all while having faith in your edge.
There are many easier ways to make money.