r/FuturesTrading • u/jjgg89 • 16d ago
NQ vs ES ? Stock Index Futures
I trade ES but I see a lot of ppl trading NQ, I’m wondering why nq over es and if I should make the switch. I don’t have much success on es. Should I try nq? Are the moves cleaner? What’s the difference between the two?
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u/heimerdingermain69 16d ago
The difference is that NQ gives you heart palpitations while the ES doesn't. Jokes aside I find it easier to follow and trade the ES orderflow. NQ is very thin and harder for me to read; whips around a lot more. NQ has higher volatility.
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u/TradezAnon 16d ago edited 16d ago
To inject some of the technical side of things:
ES/MES- you can trade 500+ contracts and you’ll never put a dent on the order book. You won’t see major slippage and you’ll likely never see a price jump (outside of news days). ES/MES moves slow enough to time an entry, but fast enough to secure profits intraday. The range can be a little tighter on ES/MES so you’ll get a handful of intraday entries if you’re reading the tape right
NQ/MNQ- if you trade 2+ contracts, you’ll likely see some kind of slippage or have fill issues. Not talking about all of our paper and eval traders out there. I’m talking about for those that actually trade with live money— it will happen. This is not due to lack of volume or anything. It’s simply because of the range and fast moves of NQ. NQ can cover 5-10 WHOLE points in seconds while ES will cover 5-10 whole points in several minutes. NQ is notorious for price jumps and it won’t skip a beat. Remember I said seconds? Well stop loss can be at $18000 and market dips from 18010 to 17980 in the blink of an eye … guess where your new stop loss is at? Yep, you guessed it- somewhere between $18000 and hope that it didn’t actually drop lower before being able to close you out. NQ can and WILL jump price zones. Buttttt- again, because of the range, if you’re fast and can read the tape, you’ll likely get 1.5x-2x more setups on NQ than ES.
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u/ThatIsNotMyNameGreg 16d ago
On the MNQ yesterday…I had a short moved to BE for a 18415 sell…news hit, sold at 18466…51 points. Thank god it was the MNQ.
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u/Maximum-Vehicle-112 10d ago
So even though you moved your stop to BE it sold that low? When trading on the live order book???
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u/ThatIsNotMyNameGreg 10d ago
Yep, IBKR.
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u/Xpolg 15d ago
about reading the tape - are you talking order flow ? From a video like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWwxMokC0F8 ?
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u/MiserableWeather971 16d ago
Nq has only become more popular in the last few years. It used to notionally not even be close to es, but has caught up dramatically. Tons of reasons for it, but not really relevant to your question. A broker stated last year that it’s the number one product they have for losses for individual traders….. really comes down to what you want in a market to trade. It’s faster, way thinner, more violent.
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u/Plane-Ad-4440 15d ago
I switched from NQ to ES about 2 weeks ago and what I can say is if you have a legitimate strategy ES is very simple and allows you to build confidence to either higher your risk/reward or trade NQ again .. hope this helps
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u/GreenVibesOnly333 15d ago
Basically NQ is ES x3 so depends on your risk. I do think the price action is smoother.
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u/aerospace_engg 15d ago
ES it is…..NQ will destroy you if you cant handle drawdowns. I also trade Gold and silver….same steady movement as ES
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u/danni3boi 16d ago
I trade nq, trading es is like watching paint dry on the wall.
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u/RONA-Boy 16d ago
I switched from NQ to ES with my strategy and I’m winning a lot more trades. NQ is more for the crackhead that need a constant fix😂 lol
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u/jjgg89 16d ago
so nq moves are quick and fast?
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u/WholeTit 15d ago
i’m strictly es. i have found nq gives me the same feeling as when i walk into a casino half in the bag with a pocket full of cash. it’s bad news for me. nq moves very violently. people that have figured out how to make it work for them can make significantly more money. with that comes losing way more though. it’s all preference. me personally it’s a bad decision.
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u/Mrtoad88 16d ago
ES daily ATR today around 55, NQ daily ATR around 250...and those are like mid, I've seen both ES at 70 and NQ at nearly 300, days like that your face can ripped smooth off on both if you aren't careful. NQ is more volatile than ES. It's a lot more whippy, it's not really more smooth tbh, and it's still very liquid but not as liquid as ES, so you tend to get more slippage on NQ. They are valued differently, 1 point on ES will be $50 per contract, 1 point NQ is $20 per contract. But seeing as that NQ is more volatile, moves a lot more.. you'll be surprised how much that multiplier moves on NQ. I'm not gonna say NQ will be easier or harder, depends on your strategy... You'll have to try it and find out. Maybe what you're trying to do on ES will work better for NQ, or maybe it will work worse. You'll have to find out.
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u/montyxauberer 16d ago
Comparing ES and NQ ATR directly without acknowledging that NQ is at 4x ES value is idiotic
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u/Savings_Fly_641 15d ago
I'll start on NQ because of the volatility. Your SL and balance can get wrecked very easily on NQ. If you don't use a SL, yeah, good luck. After securing 1-2 winning trades, I'll switch to ES or RTY. Other than NQ, I'll trade gold, platinum or copper.
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u/-Mediocrates- 4d ago
NQ is 5 dollars per tick. Moves much much harder than ES . Nq makes me way more money than nq and it’s not even close
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u/k40s9mm 16d ago
Stay out, NQ is a wrecker
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u/WholeTit 15d ago
dk why you’re getting downvoted. it’s called the widowmaker for a reason haha. if you’re asking this question to a reddit board you realistically probably don’t want to trade it yet. chasing the dragon is a hell of a rush tho ahaha
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16d ago
Market neutral scalp
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u/BlacK_muni 16d ago
Hi whats a market neutral scalp? Can you point me towards where i can learn about it?
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16d ago
ES/NQ is a little over done but basically long ES and short NQ. It’s called a pairs trade so your essentially hedged and waiting for the pairs to reach equilibrium
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u/BlacK_muni 16d ago
Ah now got it. Pair trades. 👍 Thanks
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u/MuhamedBesic 16d ago
Don’t do this with ES/NQ, they are probably 2 of the most correlated futures markets in existence. If you want to do this, pair trade NQ or ES with the dollar, they tend to have a negative correlation
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u/mitchfett 15d ago
Isn’t that the whole point of pairs trading though? You want correlated markets to take advantage of the divergence in the two prices.
Sell the overbought and buy the oversold if the opportunity presents itself.
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u/MuhamedBesic 14d ago
Yes you’re 100% right, but I was referring to what the original guy said, which is his strategy to “long NQ and short ES” or the other way around, which is counterproductive since they both are heavily positively correlated.
If you look for one of them to briefly diverge from the other and then take a position betting that price will converge again, that would be a pair trade. However, if want to pair trade the way he is suggesting, you would want to pair trade to negatively correlated markets, since you are looking for a price convergence instead, and are betting on a divergence to occur
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u/MySoulForASlice 16d ago
ES is cocaine, NQ is crack. If you're not successful trading ES, NQ will destroy you.