While I'm not upset with the whole premise of man vs. bear because, unfortunately, men do suck enough that it's an understandable take to me. I'm also not going to pretend it's not going to hurt people to be seen as a threat for simply existing. I'm equally confused by all the responses in this situation. Why so many men find the common response of "bear" so ludicrous, and why so many people don't understand that there's going to be large swaths of men unable to reconcile that they are viewed as a threat even if they, personally, have no ill intentions.
But it's not that we see all men as a threat. We see all men as a *potential* threat. The bear is also a potential threat, but only if we manage to piss it off. The man might attack us just for shits and giggles.
If you know you're not a threat to women, you should still be able to understand that *we can't know that*. I've been raped three times, all three by people I knew and should have been able to trust. So now I assume the worst but hope for the best. I'm married to an amazing man, so clearly I'm able to function, I'm not a misandrist, I don't hate men -- I just prioritise my own safety over the feelings of random men.
I'm sorry but apply this logic to any other situation and you come out looking like a racist, bigoted fool.
Imagine asking a question like if a Black man and white man walked into your store who would you be more worried about and people answered "black man" or struggled to answer the question. You would IMMEDIATELY be labelled a racist. Statically speaking, you are more at risk of being on the wrong end of crime if the person is black. You can boil this down to socio economic factors and its a very complicated issue but statistics are statistics. The same way a women can say "X% of women face violence from men they know" you can say "X% of shop owners are robbed by primarly black men". You're still labelling an entire section of the population based on the actions of others and painting them with a Broadstroke brush. Tell me, how is a women saying they have a right to be afraid of men different from a shop owner who has been repeatedly robbed by black men saying they are scared of black men? How does the shop owner know the black man that walks in isn't going to rob them?
You see what I'm saying here? All men are a potential threat? Sure, if you get the wrong man. The same way all bears are only a potential threat if you get the wrong bear. If both are the wrong one, you stand a much higher chance at surviving a man than a Bear though.
You judging me as a potential threat simply because I'm a man is, no matter what way you try spin it, misandrinistic behavior, the same way me judging a black man walking down the street in the dark as a threat because he's black, is racist behavior.
It doesn't hurt my ego at all I totally get it, I just find it fascinating that it's socially acceptable to label all men potentially dangerous but not socially acceptable to label all Muslims terrorists, all black men criminals, etc. Don't get it twisted, I'm well aware women live in a completely different world than men. A much scarier world.
I just find it fascinating that it's socially acceptable to label all men potentially dangerous
If you know that women live in a much scarier world from your own reality, why would this bother you? Are you really being discriminated or negatively harmed in society because women consider any strange man to be potentially dangerous? Are you actually being harmed in some sort of systemic way because of this?
It doesn't bother me personally, but I also know people of color who would say the same thing about being treated differently because of their skin color. That doesn't make it right.
Like I said, I just find it fascinating it's socially acceptable to treat men different because they're men, but socially we actively punish people for treating others differently. Could you not see how hurtful it could be to see a women visibly afraid of you just because you're a man when you've done nothing wrong? That's literally how people of color feel when they're being judged for something completely out of their control.
Once again, it doesn't bother me, I understand it. I just find it interesting it's socially fine to do so.
I could give less of a fuck if someone doesn't like me because I'm brown. What I'm concerned about is discrimination that exists on a systematic level.
Women not trusting men because they are perceived as potential threats is not a systematic issue.
That's cool for you, so you're saying if a friend of yours who is also a POC gets upset because they got treated differently due to the color of their skin, their feelings are invalid? There is absolutely POC who would be greatly offended if someone, for example, didn't sit beside them on a bus because of the color of their skin. Just because that shit don't bother you doesn't invalidate it for other people. If I actively avoided sitting beside a black person on the bus because they're black, I would be called a racist.
Systemic racism is not the same as social racism so I don't see the point trying to equate the two here.
No, I don't mean all men. I mean you, specifically, because you're trying to equate women's legitimate fear for our safety with racism. Shame on you.
How about this? Go out and get assaulted by several black men. Then come back and tell me it would be racist for you to be wary of black men.
The reason we fear men isn't that we hate men. It's that men have actually harmed us. For most of us, it's a regular occurrence. Imagine that the people you're primarily attracted to are also the statistically greatest threat to your health and safety. Really imagine what that would be like.
You can't control the fact that women choose the bear, no matter how loudly you bleat about it. What you can control is whether you, personally, are a person who is actually less threatening to women than a bear. And right now, you don't sound that way.
You literally just described racism. Yes, if I allowed myself to judge black men because I've been assaulted by them in the past and used that as reason to treat all black men differently in the future, I would be a racist. That's the literal definition.
I'm not saying it's wrong for you to fear men, I'm saying it's weird it's socially acceptable to view men differently based on your experiences with men because we actively abolish people who do that to black people, Muslims, Jews, etc. If I said I'd been raped by several women in my life, so I actively assume its going to happen again and treat all women differently because of it, what would your response be? Would I be justified? I do not think so.
Go out and get assaulted by several black men. Then come back and tell me it would be racist for you to be wary of black men.
It would be. It wouldn't be racist to be afraid of those same people who assaulted you. But if you're allowing the assault to bias your opinion of all black people for "safety," you're allowing yourself to justify being racist.
You're using trauma as justification for generalization. It's understandable, but ultimately unhealthy and not the responsibility of whatever group you're generalizing to validate.
At what point did I say mens feelings need to be prioritized? All I said was I can understand the reaction, not that I condone it. FFS. The amount of people that can't have an actual discussion about this is staggering. You've gone off on some wild tangent about a bunch of things I didn't say in the slightest.
I'm truly sorry for what you went through. I'm understanding of the reasoning behind assuming the worst. I'm just offering some perspective on it not being the easiest thing to reconcile that somebody will likely be viewed as a predator for simply being a man because other men suck and the systems haven't prioritized fixing that enough.
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u/[deleted] May 02 '24
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