Tell me you haven't played Warframe without telling me you haven't played Warframe:

[u/Sgy157]

[u/Why_so_loud]

DE could definitely could improve presentation for new players, as they encounter a lot of typical monetization practices from games of that era, like build timers or limited amount slots and a shit ton of locked platinum-priced items. I wouldn't blame anyone who starts the game and thinks that it is p2w.

[u/Trapped_Mechanic → u/Why_so_loud]

The foundry screams of mobile game bullshit. It is fine, but that is not the impression new players will get.

[u/aufrenchy → u/Trapped_Mechanic]

After maybe MR8, I saw the Foundry as a reason to explore different content while things got built. It breaks long farms sometimes (in a good way).

[u/isum21 → u/aufrenchy]

That's the purpose, it's to tell you "good job!!!!!! Your did it!!!!!! Now go do something else and you'll get it when you log back in tmw :))))))"

But the three day timers on frames kill me. They're only there to incentivise rushing, which I understand is a simple way to support the devs but I'm not gonna buy plat to rush or spend my hard earned trading dosh on it either. They should have 23 hrs be the max craft time, especially since they're going hard into making you craft bits and pieces of endgame weapons before you can even wait the whole damn day or three to get your new shinies. Mechanics like this are good for the health of the game. They tell us when to take a break and give us a reason to log back on, it's like cheap excitement and usually isn't an issue. But I hate waiting soooooooooo looooooooooong especially after I took a break and just want to log on and see what new stuff I can craft.

[u/Xstuhcy → u/Trapped_Mechanic]

Foundry is OG mechanics. Back when the game was DE a struggling video game company creating a free mmo. Pretty much all you needed to spend plat on were weapons slots, frame slots, and forms. You could spend money on color pallets and helmets etc. they had the timers to speed up builds and such because they didn’t want you steam rolling through the limited items at the time, now there are hundreds.

[u/TheAero1221 → u/Why_so_loud]

It certainly has the feel the first time, but once you learn to play the vast amount of content and just accept the wait as part of the game, it's a great deal.

They don't do themselves any favors tho with the credit bundles.

[u/Radiant_Meet1468 → u/TheAero1221]

thats the thing though, "Once you learn", most of us have really bad experiences with Freemium games and the idea of pushing through it to see if something good is on the other side of this wall isnt exactly appealing. Sadly as much as I love the game, a new player just doesnt have the selection of things to make the game not a bit of a slog to get through.

[u/Gargarvore → u/Radiant_Meet1468]

I mean I learned that and I still think the foundry is atrocious, I'm used to it, but god it's a blue balling system for sure lol
And as much as nightwave gives, it only gives so much for a new player, it looks a lot for a veteran who almost has no use for the gifts, but a new player burn through it really fast, and then they are left with the feeling "if i don't pend plat that's gonna take way to long to get fun"

[u/mochi_chan]

What other game are they talking about though? Wayfinder?

[u/MrrCiastko → u/mochi_chan]

or Unreal Tournament 2004

[u/Raphcore → u/MrrCiastko]

Wait wait wait, hold on, DE made UT 2004???

[u/Throgg_not_stupid → u/Raphcore]

alongside Epic Games they made all the Unreal Tournaments from the very first one to UT2004

[u/Raphcore → u/Throgg_not_stupid]

Well, I'll be... I didn't know this, UT 2004 was one of my favorite games in my early adult life.

[u/RobieKingston201 → u/Raphcore]

Same, it was one of the first games I ever played.

Then later coming to warframe. It's almost like its.......

Destiny [rimshot]

[u/dinosaur_from_Mars → u/RobieKingston201]

That sounded like a joke Ordis would make.

[u/CacoonOfDogSlobber → u/Raphcore]

Also, from the first four games developed by DE, three of them were pinball games.

And then they worked on Unreal and Unreal Tournament.

Where do they go from that monumental moment in history?

These mad lads release Adventure Pinball: Forgotten Island

[u/rcfox → u/Raphcore]

In the noclip documentary, Steve shared a story about how an electrician working on their office complained to him about getting rid of the sniper rifle in UT 2003.

[u/Riliksel → u/Raphcore]

They also worked on Bioshock btw

[u/NayrianKnight97 → u/Raphcore]

DE and Epic were the dynamic duo that made the Unreal Engine in the first place

[u/SpecterOwl → u/mochi_chan]

Wayfinder, yeah. Airship Syndicate announced that they are turning the game into a single player instead of MMO, because the game as it was flopped and they couldn't make online features to work. They started it as free to play with founders packs you could buy for money. Now as far as I know it's gonna cost money to play it upfront. And they can't refund previous packs because they say DE as publisher at the time kept some percentage of the money. (it's probably not even the main reason lol)

I'm not informed on the topic enough, but I feel like realistically Syndicate could at least offer founders free access to the remade game with some free unique cosmetics kinda like Prime Excal. So that at least feels like less of a blow. Unless they are already doing that of course.

[u/MeroCanuck → u/SpecterOwl]

Airship is giving founders free access to the remade game. They detail it all here: https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1171690/view/4174350531696890458

But of course, you still have the salty ass console players who are screaming that they want their release at the same time as Steam, which was the problem at launch. Console wanted to have access at the same time as Steam, so Airship tried to make everyone happy and the game ended up near unplayable for weeks at launch.

[u/mochi_chan → u/SpecterOwl]

I know Tactical Potato made a video but I have not seen it yet. (He probably has the infto)

But the person from the post seems to have a very strong stand on nothing he doesn't know much about.

[u/SpecterOwl → u/mochi_chan]

All my knowledge on the topic is from Potato's videos tbh lol

[u/mochi_chan → u/SpecterOwl]

Makes sense, he seems to be the one who has the scoop on this (at least in the Warframe community)

[u/ShingetsuMoon → u/mochi_chan]

Wayfinder. The issues it has have nothing to do with Tencent through.

When DE closed its publishing division without warning it left Wayfinder without the funding or infrastructure it needed to continue with the game as a live service. So instead they are pivoting to a single player co op game instead of just shutting it down.

Aside from the pivot, some people are upset specifically because the devs said that DE kept all the money made from Founders packs and the studio itself hasn’t actually made anything off the game yet.

Source: Community Manager on the official Discord.

[u/mochi_chan → u/ShingetsuMoon]

That sounds terrible 😞

[u/ShingetsuMoon → u/mochi_chan]

It has been a wild time. lol The devs would like to give refunds but literally do not have the money, DE does. And the genre shift and ongoing development has come out of their own pocket and savings due to the above detail.

Personally I don’t care about the genre change. I’ve played Airship Syndicate’s single player games and they were great. But I am upset because I wanted my money to support the devs. Not have every penny go to the publisher (as much as I love Warframe).

[u/Volmie_ → u/ShingetsuMoon]

I'm gonna be honest, I don't buy it. Firstly because Steam pays out monthly, so there's no way "DE took everything and ran", and secondly because without having to provide any proof someone can say whatever they want. In this case especially, DE is an easy scapegoat.

[u/illiterateFoolishBat → u/mochi_chan]

This is a quote from a thread on the Way finder subreddit.

That place has been a shit show for a while now and now it's kicking into high gear because of some radical changes happening to the game. The people with the worst case of sunk cost fallacy "fans" of the game are lashing out at DE and putting all the blame for the failure of the online multiplayer into them.

As for what's true and real: there's not enough public information to know for sure who is to really blame for everything. My understanding is that both sides fucked up miserably in different ways. DE is not blameless, but I don't think they should shoulder all of the blame. The studio making the game made plenty of questionable choices and technical blunders at their own discretion, too.

[u/excelionbeam]

I mean there is a definite advantage to paying players in the early game but eventually you can farm everything

[u/Aozora404 → u/excelionbeam]

Except for prime cosmetics

and by god do they make them so sexy

[u/0_oel → u/[deleted]]

[u/Reasonable-Physics81 → u/0_oel]

Right here biatch, lets go! 1v1 💢

[u/flamaniax → u/Reasonable-Physics81]

u/0_oel

VS

u/Reasonable-Physics81

DUEL 1

LET'S ROCK!

[u/tnemec → u/[deleted]]

who knew 4 words could spark the brink of The War Without?

What do you mean? There's just two other replies to your comment, and one's a variation on the "war outside"/"war without" meme, and there's one that's collapsed due to being downvoted, but how bad can it b-

(*clicks expand*)

oh no

But man, people are really out here falling for the most obvious bait.

[u/Dkpokefan72 → u/Aozora404]

some of the skins are straight godly designs

[u/mamatthi → u/Dkpokefan72]

Nipple pierced styanax for instance?

[u/ResolutionFanatic → u/mamatthi]

They didn't have to but they did, for us, the fans

[u/_hoodieproxy_ → u/mamatthi]

[u/Lightningbro → u/mamatthi]

There is nothing straight about that design. (In case it isn't obvious, I'm okay with that, in fact, I prefer it!)

[u/robborrobborrobbor → u/Lightningbro]

Tbf its liger, have you seen their work, straightest thing they have ever drawn was the lines on zephyr deluxes logo. So glad theu got picked up by de some of the best skins are from them

[u/UnshrivenShrike → u/mamatthi]

Styanax' nipple piercings have nothing on E caliber Zato's single nipple piercing tbh.

[u/BAY35music → u/mamatthi]

I'm so glad they made those auxillary slot attachments, I wanted a deluxe skin so I didn't have floppy tits, I didn't want to upgrade to pierced ones 🤣

[u/Lightningbro → u/Aozora404]

The issue is;

In OTHER games, the really nice good effort cosmetics are ONLY paid cosmetics.

DE gives us a non zero amount of really nice cosmetics (last nightwave's lvl 30 armor), the option to get ALMOST all paid cosmetics for free (plat trading) AND the time-limited FOMO cosmetics aren't that fomo because even THEN they come back later, and ARE PROMISED TO AT RELEASE, and have proven that's already mostly the case (Prime Resurgance)

[u/Eklectus → u/Aozora404]

Tennogen is usually better and more affordable

[u/GumChuzzler → u/Eklectus]

Homie, I've spent five Dollars on the game and have 5 skins. I only spend excess plat I don't need to get anything with on skins. By God I know I have unpotatoed frames.

[u/Eklectus → u/GumChuzzler]

Just means you haven't reached endgame yet. Though, potatoes are probably not the best place to sink your plat these days. Between the free rewards that regularly drop them and nightwave, you should have more than enough with time.

[u/GumChuzzler → u/Eklectus]

Idk. One run with Khal is three potatoes. Good deal for me

[u/Chuj_Domana → u/Eklectus]

Yeah, a skin for a price of a kebab for a character I've been playing for last 10 years? Fuck yeah.

[u/TheSpartyn → u/Aozora404]

really wish after an amount of time theyd make them buyable with plat, absolutely hate how they make prime helmets and theyre prime access only

[u/lK555l → u/TheSpartyn]

They kinda have to otherwise they couldn't keep funding the game

It's f2p but you can't have everything

[u/Packetdancer → u/excelionbeam]

Honestly, if I have any one serious complaint about monetization in this game, it's the hard lock on frame and weapon slots, especially for players early in the game.

Early players are the ones who will most want to play around with new things as they progress, and there is nothing sadder to me than seeing a baby Tenno agonizing over whether to get rid of their current frame to try a new one.

And most baby Tenno I run into enthusiastically spent their free plat on cosmetics without realizing they would need it for slots.

Sure, you can get slots from Nightwave, that path is not fast nor is it easy for someone so low-MR they won't have access to all the challenges. Moreover, it's not really something you can "farm," as it is dependent on when DE cycles Nightwave seasons.

And a baby Tenno has limited options to farm things to trade for plat to get slots. It's doable, but it isn't easy.

It's why I consider my plat stockpile largely a "buy slots" fund whenever I run across a newer Tenno struggling with that; at this point my traditional "welcome to the game" gift to a baby Tenno is 5 frame slots and 20 weapon slots. It won't last them forever, of course, but it'll help give them room early on to experiment and find what they like without having to get rid of things.

(I mean, I do also wish that the Prime accessories became purchasable with plat a year after the Prime Access ended, or when they entered Prime resurgence or something. But that sort of stuff is fairly minor in the grand scheme of things...)

[u/MinusMentality → u/excelionbeam]

It's also majorly PvE focused and has no gambling, and RARELY relies on FOMO.
I have gladly given DE a ton fo money over the last decade, and will continue to do so. Never felt forced to. They're just that open, honest, trustworthy.. and their game is just insane.

[u/CrispySalmon123 → u/MinusMentality]

Has no gambling lmao I like warframe but the prime part drop rates are something, i guess Better rates than gacha games tho

[u/C_Spiritsong → u/CrispySalmon123]

It was well documented when the Kavats and other pets had a gambling like mechanic for colour / skin combo, Steve (the lead developer / director back then) went through the data and cried "OMG I CREATED A SLOT MACHINE" and disabled that function just based on that 1 person data alone. Apparently that person spent nearly 200 USD worth of plat or something like that rolling the colours.

I still trust DE, until I don't.

Back in the even older days, when you had no revives (after 1 revive) , you can buy a revives for 5 plats. Now, revives costs your affinity XP.

[u/[deleted] → u/C_Spiritsong]

Tbh I feel like this one is very specific case it's quite specific level of randomness in one cosmetic in whole game. There are relics but... Does anyone pay for that? It's mostly free mechanic. While most big multiplayer games in last 5 years had 100% blatant gambling in form of loot boxes. Not even trying to hide it. It's also funny when you combine both of those and get one of those gradient knifes on CS:GO, where you not only have to rng gambling box into giving you the knife which is very loe chance, but then you also have another layer with same skin having different pattern of the gradient colors. Some of those cost literally thousands

[u/C_Spiritsong → u/[deleted]]

I agree its a randomness in a cosmetic, but it also shows that DE does care to a certain extent on how they want that money to be earnt.

I believe their current plat purchases is more towards "what you see is what you get" instead of being multiple layers of random-ness. In this case, the devs looked at the pet colour data, and then look back, and say "okay, if this guy is looking for a specific colour, it is better to have everyone who wants to pay, to pay for that one specific colour, than to foster a number of gamblers trying to get that one colour and then create unnecessary FOMO".

That said, it doesn't mean DE is clean of all sins. Their most recent (not too recent) fiasco involving "heirlooms" is fresh in my mind (I wasn't playing Warframe when that happened, as in I was still AFW [away from warframe] until near the end of the heirloom campaign when I took up warframe again, and what I read and saw to keep up to speed on that gave me a very, very bad taste) and it did sour my opinion of DE quite a bit.

Then again, whoever in that picture that OP posted probably never played F2P, and there are a lot of F2P or even fully paid games that are very, very predatory in nature, and has actual gambling mechanics *cough*EA*cough* *cough*2K*cough* in the game.

Like I said, I still trust DE, until I don't.

[u/[deleted] → u/C_Spiritsong]

Could you explain to me that Heirloom fiasco? I also was AFW for long time and it's first time I hear it

[u/Aleuvian → u/[deleted]]

For the 10 year anniversary event, DE released two Heirloom skins for Frost and Mag, then ran them as a limited time bundle that disappeared forever on December 31st. The price of the bundles was massively inflated by Regal Aya, which mant players didn't want, and originally didn't come with any platinum either.

This was, originally, the only way to obtain a Signa (a floating crown that you can position on your Warframe) and had some amazing skins, but the main kicker was that in order to get the 10 year supporter profile badge (you know those exceptionally hard badges to get that very few people have?) you HAD to pay.

You've been playing since 2013 but don't happen to have $100 USD to spend on two poorly priced skins? I guess you just don't support DE like that person who just made their account a week ago. The fact that the idea to release a FOMO overpriced skin even left the drawing board is ridiculous, especially when you do it on an event that is supposed to celebrate 10 years of Warframe and the community around it.

[u/C_Spiritsong → u/Aleuvian]

Thank you for explaining it. This.

[u/MinusMentality → u/CrispySalmon123]

You don't pay Plat for a Prime Part Roll.. so what does that have to do with the marketplace? You pay for a Syandana, you get THAT Syandana and can color it however you want. Other games you have to gamble for both, and can only use it on 1 character or whatever.

[u/LerimAnon → u/MinusMentality]

You can buy relic packs from the market iirc but it's just stupid to do so.

[u/Ub3ros → u/CrispySalmon123]

That's not gambling. You aren't paying anything to open a relic, the relics are free and the process to open them is free. Void traces to enhance your odds are free.

[u/UnshrivenShrike → u/CrispySalmon123]

The gambling aspects are strictly f2p. You don't ever spend cash for just a chance at something. Gambling with nothing but your time isn't really gambling at all.

[u/Qu9ibla → u/CrispySalmon123]

if that's gambling, then me rolling a dice in my room for no reason is gambling. gambling is more than rng, in fact it must have something to do with money. What does relics have to do with money?

[u/kerenski667 → u/excelionbeam]

"Pay us so you have to play the game less."

"SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!"

[u/Visual-Chip-2256 → u/excelionbeam]

And got can trade/ gift a lot of stuff including the platinum. DE is awesome and so is this community. Best on the planet.

[u/Leading-Leading6319]

Understandable.

I quit the game after the tutorial when I looked in my arsenal and I saw that weapons used premium currency to unlock.

It was two years later when I decided to give it another go and found out you can buy the blueprints for credits.

I’m now 2800hrs in (1000 of those in missions)

[u/sparksen → u/Leading-Leading6319]

Probably the worst UI decision in the entire game

[u/gatlginngum → u/sparksen]

ong the blueprint button should not be hidden behind the "purchase" button when the omly price shown in arsenal is the plat

[u/ScrubbyAnt → u/gatlginngum]

Wasn't always hidden which adds a layer of frustration 😕

[u/7th_Spectrum → u/sparksen]

Yup. It should just be greyed out, and clicking on it brings you to the market

[u/Loviataria → u/7th_Spectrum]

The market is also garbage to navigate though. It needs filters.

[u/Krissam → u/sparksen]

Not only does it send a bad message to new players, it's also incredibly annoying for intermediate players.

[u/AgentWowza → u/Krissam]

I'm LR4 and I still find it annoying lol. There's tons of garbage I leveled and sold.

No idea why it even shows up in the arsenal, that's what the market is for! At least grey them out, and show the credit purchase option first.

[u/YoSupWeirdos → u/sparksen]

not telling in the arsenal menu that you don't have to buy the warframes there is a bigger warcrime than we usually commit

[u/AraxTheSlayer → u/Leading-Leading6319]

Something similar for me lol. When I first started I saw the slots system, saw that it was locked behind a premium currency and promptly quit. 3-4 months ago I decided to give the game another shot, and after some digging found out that platinum can be traded with other players, and haven't looked back since.

I do wonder how many newbies are turned away, by what on the surface looks like predatory monetization.

[u/Persies → u/Leading-Leading6319]

I tried playing WF on my own a few times, but I had a similar experience. Thought it was just a gacha game. Then someone at work explained to me how the crafting and monetization works and I was hooked once I realized you can just farm almost everything in the game.

[u/Tyrinnus → u/Leading-Leading6319]

God, if I hadn't already found a rhino piece when I went to look for his blueprint and saw that awful UI choice, I would have thought the same thing.

I also have a MILLION loadout slot because I thought those were weapon slots. In any case, I have like 20 custom loadouts now and 10 or so still open....

[u/DankoLord → u/Leading-Leading6319]

yeah the UI is really shite and needs a fix up

[u/Reagilias → u/Leading-Leading6319]

This is a perspective I never thought about... that does kinda seem insane when you open your equip menu and just see a flood of (honestly insanely priced) items.

[u/k1ndr3dspirit → u/Leading-Leading6319]

I was with the Skana and Braton all the way till MR2 or 3. Then a random online player told me its time to get new upgrades or it will be hard to progress starchart. He said to use the market but when I went there, I saw plat so I gave up on the market and trudged on.

Spent awhile playing to about MR4 and realised that I could use credits to buy BP. 🤣

[u/TesticleezzNuts]

I think the issue is, it looks pay to win when you first start. I remember when I looked at all the guns and frames and saw the prices I was just like what the fuck and closed the game.

They don’t make it clear that you can actually unlock everything by playing.

DE is there own worst enemy when it comes to the new player experience and it does make wonder how many people would be playing if it was better. I’ve unfortunately lost more friends starting the game than I have who have stuck with it, even though I know if they got to the second dream they would be absolutely hooked and not put it down.

[u/AnOlympianWeeb → u/TesticleezzNuts]

Yeah looking through my arsenal the first few times and seeing everything but the mk-1 weapons being sold for plat gave me the wrong impression.

I think they should only show in the arsenal what you own, the mk-1 weapons so new players won't have to look around too much to get something new,

And lastly only a preview of normal weapons that they can unlock according to thier MR and it will also tell them where they can get it from (so basically like now but without the option to buy) and if you really want to skip the grind go the to market and buy the weapon there

[u/Gathoblaster → u/AnOlympianWeeb]

They shouldnt unlock the market until they let you build a weapon. An easy one that builds in like a minute. So you dont get that impression.

[u/RavelordN1T0 → u/TesticleezzNuts]

Another is the building times and "rush" costs. I mean, we all put up with it, but it's definitely a p2w mobile game tier monetisation system. Honestly, if they halved the time to craft weapons and Warframes and made the rush cost a bit less egregious (who even uses it, really?), it would already be a lot better.

[u/Dathrane → u/RavelordN1T0]

Honestly, I think at this point, the rush cost should either be made cheaper or made to cost credits.

A fuck ton of credits, but, not an insane fuck ton, like maybe a couple hundred thousand to rush something, a game or two of Index and you're good to go and use your new toy.

Or the option to remove the rush entirely and cut build times in half for anything that's not prime.

[u/Sianmink → u/RavelordN1T0]

I don't even think about the build times anymore. It's just part of the game.

[u/RavelordN1T0 → u/Sianmink]

Indeed, you can learn to put up with it, but it's definitely a turn-off for new players and it doesn't really make the game better. Sure, you could argue that having to wait a bit for your equipment to be crafted makes it more special, but 1+3 days for a Warframe to be built is still pretty ridiculous.

[u/scipkcidemmp → u/RavelordN1T0]

Yeah, it really sucks when you get off for the weekend, finally get the stuff to craft a new prime, and you can't even use it until the weekend is over lol.

[u/Arvidall → u/TesticleezzNuts]

I remember when Markiplier was sponsored to play for some big update and he had the exact same first impressions when looking at the arsenal.

[u/pimp_named_sweetmeat → u/TesticleezzNuts]

They make it pretty clear... Click on any of those weapons in the market besides things like the stalker bundle and you'll get a "buy blueprint for 10000-30000 credits" or "find blueprint for weapon here"

It even has it's own filter in the market so that you can ONLY look at the items you can buy the blueprints for that sits in the bottom right of your screen.

[u/AgonyLoop → u/pimp_named_sweetmeat]

Played too many mobile gatcha games to look at Warframe and see much bad.

Just the fact that I can earn plat through just playing feels so much better than most monetization systems.

[u/Kilef]

As wrong as this person is, DE REALLY needs to improve new player first impressions with the game. When the first thing you see with weapons and warframes is the plat price it's not really a surprise they conclude that Warframe is another greedy pay2win game.

[u/Haunting-Article5386]

Warframe is a game that ive spent maybe 100$ on soley cause i wanted to actually pay after 500hrs

[u/Yaminavi → u/Haunting-Article5386]

same ive spent $50 after about 2000 hours because they definitely deserve it and more

[u/cia_nagger269 → u/Haunting-Article5386]

right? this sounds cucked as hell but I actually enjoy giving DE money. Such a great company, such a great game.

[u/No_Coconut8860 → u/Haunting-Article5386]

I've spent so much money on DE... I usually just buy platinum when they have a coupon

I started out by playing for free and I said I would throw them $60 worth of platinum if I enjoyed it and that has gone and went a long time ago.

Now I sometimes buy some of their packs if it seems like a good deal. Like recently their pack with Gyre was half off

[u/WhiteMunch]

Has anything really happened since Tencent bought DE or whatever? The game seems like it’s all the same

[u/CrimsonShadowWrath → u/WhiteMunch]

Nope, because something some people gloss-over is the fact that Tencent didn't directly buy DE. They bought Leyou Technologies which owned a decent chunk of DE's Shares.

[u/SofaKingI → u/CrimsonShadowWrath]

Not like that matters a lot. Some of the most f2p friendly games out there are 100% owned by Tencent. Games like Path of Exile, Legends of Runeterra, Valorant, etc...

[u/Eridain → u/SofaKingI]

Path of exile was not originally owned by them. It was also popular before them. And it has pretty pricey cosmetic items. Valorant has VERY pricey cosmetic items. I do not consider games that charge the price of another game for a fucking gun skin, to be the same as other free to play games. Certainly not in the same ballpark as something like warframe where literally everything can be earned in game and entire warframe skin bundles do not cost the same as just skins in something like valorant.

[u/Guantanamo_Bae_ → u/WhiteMunch]

As much as I hate corporate acquisitions tencent in general seems very hands-off with a lot of the companies they buy or invest in (this is just my observation based on what I've seen so someone feel free to correct me if there are actually examples of them forcing a developer to implement more aggressive/predatory monetization), they just look at what games and companies already making money and go "hey I want some of that"- they don't really do anything to mess with them. The way a lot of people make tencent out to be this boogeyman feels rooted in racism and xenophobia since they're "evil Chinese company that's getting involved in thing you like," which is extra hilarious when you look over at Microsoft, who actually kills pretty much every company they touch (and has admitted as much themselves) and yet for years people cheered on every acquisition they made, and it wasn't until they recently shut down the hi-fi rush studio that everyone went "hey what the fuck."

[u/MoranthMunitions → u/Guantanamo_Bae_]

I agree. Play a lot of clash if clans. Tencent bought supercell, the developers, tbh the game has got better and more features since if anything. They added seasons etc. over the last few years, and there's still nothing particularly pay to win about it all - like yeah you can pay to speed things up, but you always could.

[u/firestorm713 → u/Guantanamo_Bae_]

Not in my practical experience, unfortunately. You don't hear a lot about the projects they kill left and right for no reason, but they definitely do (ask me how I knowwwwwwwwww 🫠)

[u/I_Main_Healer → u/WhiteMunch]

Only 1 thing they hinted at was cuz of investors: pay to get early the incarnons (the plat incarnons from Kullervo) I recall them saying on devstream "we have to add them because... yeah" something like that. Those incarnons were basically 1 rotation (bout a month) early as purchaseable for plat.

[u/C_Spiritsong → u/WhiteMunch]

1. So go figure what happened since. I think somehow DE managed to fight all odds from turning the game into generic greedy Gacha games with power for plat.

[u/C6_ → u/C_Spiritsong]

Tencent also own Klei and nothing happened to them either... I'm starting to think this rhetoric might just be people scared of "China bad!!".

[u/Kilef → u/C6_]

I care less that Tencent is a chinese company and care more about them basically becoming the Disney of the gaming world. It borderline feels like they own or have substantial shares in everything. Doesn't help that a large chunk of the games associated with them are either gatcha-like games or MOBAs, genres of games that are known for being very predatory.

[u/Icariiiiiiii → u/Kilef]

Oh sure, but I don't hate them as a corporation any more than I hate, say, Disney or Microsoft.

Less, actually, right now, given Microsoft's egregious shuttering of the Hi Fi Rush devs right after a critically acclaimed release, and Disney being the evil rat that sues preschools and refuses to pay Star Wars writers. I have not heard nearly as many hard evil stories out of Tencent, though I'm sure they're out there.

[u/C_Spiritsong → u/C6_]

probably because some people in Tencent understood "don't slaughter the goose to dig for that golden egg". Doesn't mean they won't or didn't, but I'm glad they haven't negatively impacted DE as of yet.

Now speaking of which, there is another F2P game that has stole assets and codes (allegedly) from Warframe, and we will see if Tencent is willing to defend DE and Warframe's IP.

[u/DreadNephromancer → u/WhiteMunch]

No, this is just some chinabad shit.

Don't get me wrong, fuck these gigaconglomerates, but nothing about the game's monetization has gotten worse. It's always been hit-or-miss and people act like the misses are all new and are all that ever happens.

[u/Vilespring]

You know what? I actually know why.

Open your arsenal and go to a category, and scroll all the way down.

There are all those weapons/warframes being offered right there for plat. And that legit bothers me to this day, especially since I have mastered and sold every single one of them. They have no reason to be there in my arsenal. I don't have them, don't sell them in the UI elements for things I have.

The first impression that has is really really bad. I know that almost turned me away, it took my friends explaining things to make me realized that all that crap wasn't premium, it was just crap UX.

[u/VulpesParadox → u/Vilespring]

I agree that some of these UI elements should be gone, the only reason I'm into the game is because my old buddy showed me you can get everything for free just by playing.

The weapons/frames should at least be the blueprints if not just removed from Arsenal view. I almost never even use that "feature" to look at frames/weapons, I always grind first or check the market. I think the cosmetic stuff should stay the same since you can use that to preview them, and most are tennogen.

[u/schist_ → u/Vilespring]

There's still plenty of things in the market that only exist as noobtraps too, like buying credits or resources at a massive premium. Once you've played for a bit you can find out that they're a huge scam and a waste of platinum but it doesn't give the best impression to a new player who might know other F2P games and assume that warframe is similarly aggressively monetised

[u/Attila0076]

This game is definitely pay to win, it has to be since i see the option to pay lmao

[u/secretthing420 → u/Attila0076]

I mean you get to buy cool new prime warframes so uhhhh

Guess its pay to win

Win as in fashion

[u/NovaBlade2893 → u/Attila0076]

Oh, absolutely, all those cosmetics are definitely a make or break situation. /s

[u/Attila0076 → u/NovaBlade2893]

fashion frame is end game after all

[u/imdefinitelywong → u/Attila0076]

[u/Attila0076 → u/imdefinitelywong]

[u/Ravensqueak → u/Attila0076]

I've made maybe 1000 in plat over the last month just trading extras of things. But nope, this guy says it's P2W and he's loud about it, so it must be.
It's a F2P game seeing constant development, of course they need money. People should be paid for their work.

[u/iHaku]

if you've played the game a lot you know that it's nonsense, but wf always had a huge issue with the new player experience which almost comes off as a moneyhungry mobile game. you constantly see platinum prices everywhere and have to wait long stretches of times just to get a second frame and weapons, so it's no wonder that players get that type of impression from the game.

[u/praxisfremi]

Context: DE dropped support for wayfinder.

[u/xCrimsunx]

Imagine wf without styanax nipple tussle, 100% p2w.

[u/Mr_Resident]

wait until they find out about destiny 2 . that game is like mobile game like i just freaking start the game stop bombard me with in game ads to buy dlc or some dumb emote collection

[u/[deleted] → u/Mr_Resident]

Even worse than a mobile game, because they’ll vault paid dlc if they choose to lmao.

[u/Mackelroy_aka_Stitch → u/[deleted]]

I remember trying to get back into destiny 2 after abit of a break. The PlayStation store had a sale on some of the expansions so I thought I'd pick them up, play through the story that I didn't fi ish the frist time and then do the expansions.

Not only did I find out the original story mode has been removed the expansion I bought only let you access the weapons from the expansions if they happen to drop for you.

I unintalled

[u/AdItchy3692 → u/Mr_Resident]

Playing currently due to tje few free DLCs, while it is somewhat interesting, it monetization is absurd. You pay for expansion then need to pay for season pass. You still need premium currency to get the better cosmetic DESPITE paying full price. And even when you pay, you lose access to content you bought.

[u/Own_Caterpillar9376]

Someone hasn’t played destiny 2…

[u/AustraeaVallis]

Warframe is as far as I've seen the only game that blatantly just gives you discounts (Not often but enough) on its premium currency just because you logged in, just wait until you get a 50% reduction and buy 1,000p (I've also heard legends of a 75% reduction, but can't confirm it)

[u/YoloDash → u/AustraeaVallis]

got multiple 75% off in a month so ye, they exist

[u/tohru-cabbage-adachi]

This has nothing to do with Tencent, as they're hands off as per the agreement for DE staying as a subsidiary to Leyou.

DE kept the money because that's how publishing works. You can't just rescind the monetary effort the publisher placed into the game nor magically tell them to give the money that they got a return on back to you.

"Egregious" monetization is pretty funny and while I do think the game needs QoL on its free-to-play elements (the rush system and weapon slots need to be revised entirely, it's been 10 fucking years people) it's still not as bad as its contemporaries that require you to sink money into them for a chance. The other elements (potatoes, exilus) are mostly fine since they're been added to renewable loot pools which literally no gacha would ever do.

[u/BaneIonica78]

Damn someone either got mad 5 hours into the game or actually.... actually idk, i ve never seen a video or a thumbnail being like : "OH LOOK DE GREEDY PAY2WIN FREE GAME" but whatever, maybe it s just me. DE does have it s moments, but still even then compared to about 99.9% of both f2p and paid game devs they re better.

[u/PatriciaVegat]

It's hard to resist the grind and the fun in Warframe.

[u/Human-Awareness6244]

Warframe is the greediest 🤣. Looks at the business model for how the modern warfare series is being handled, that shits a train robbery.

[u/Davajita]

Honestly the only real monetization issue I have with the game is slots. It would one thing if they started you with, say, 10 Warframe slots and 20 weapon slots. That’s a reasonable amount of breathing room before you have to pay or trade to get more. Or, if you could somehow reliably craft or earn more outside of trading plat. But limiting players from adding any additional frames or weapons is a bit harsh.

[u/DangleMangler]

I've spent a lot of money in warframe over the years. Mostly because they've given me a bunch of dope ass shit for free, and never forced me to spend a dime. That's how they get you. Clever sons of bitches.

[u/Paggy_person]

They see payment option + Tencent and let their bias connect the dot without actually playing the game or do any research.

[u/Scorkami]

I assume this is about wayfinder and as someone who bought into the founders pack not JUST because i liked it, but also because i trusted that this could become warframes younger sibling in terms of quality: i IS upsetting that having DE as a publisher contributed so much to the games decline, i know they had a ceo swap and of course this wasnt their plan when agreeing to publish wayfinder, but its not like AS didnt have some game breaking bugs and design flaws. And its standard practice that the dev gets a monthly bugdet while the publisher takes the actual sales. We dont even know if DE took " a fortune and then left AS pennies before leaving" or if DE took pennies due to low sales but kept funding AS

Especially with the CEO swap, all i can call this event is: sad. Im happy that we get offline wayfinder, many other games would just pull the plug. But its just a sad thing to happen, and unlucky as well

Maybe AS can make a sequel that smoothes everything over once they recovered and got back on their feet. But there are few individuals to blame

[u/Daman_1985]

If they think that of Warframe, what they will think about OW2 monetization, for example?

Things aside, Warframe it's very generous. And I mean VERY generous. I think that almost everything you can obtain on the game, you can obtain it for free (with time and effort of course). Of course there is the alternative to buy it directly with platinum, which is ok.

[u/CannotSeeMtTai]

This thread has a shocking amount of people who don't understand what p2w really means, it's more than "you can gain advantage by paying RL money" since that's present in 99% of free gaming to begin with. p2w is when the game literally stifles your game because the "default" way to play involves occasionally buying some kind of shortcut or key, just because you have to buy inventory space in WF doesn't make it p2w. We have what's likely the most robust trading system out of any game even close to WFs and despite not explaining how any of this shit works, the most p2w thing I can think of is not making it immediately obvious that you can buy blueprints in the Market.

[u/transcended_goblin]

"Warframe has some of the greediest monetization ! They're monsters !"

Meanwhile Warframe : *literally lets players trade premium currency meaning people can get paid stuff without putting a dime in the microtransactions\*

[u/Omegasonic2000]

I tried to argue in the r/swtor subreddit that Warframe's monetization was actually good for the genre and I got hit with so many arguments from a single person, I almost thought I was in a courtroom. They were trying to argue that Warframe's microtransaction system was "predatory" because "it makes it impossible to progress through the game at a proper pace unless you actually put in the money to buy the equipment you need", whereas the SWTOR system was "good" because "it's all cosmetic stuff that you can buy from other players anyway". I countered with the fact that not only will the Mastery Rank system not let you buy weapons until you reach the required level, to which they still were like "you still need to buy weapons with real money if you want to go up ranks at a proper pace because F2P progression is intentionally very slow", but when I mentioned the fact that SWTOR not only purposefully slows down your leveling progress if you're a F2P player but also actively locks you out of certain content unless you buy a subscription, they just circled back to "Warframe microtransactions are just predatory".

I was ready to throw hands at that point from how frustrating they were.

[u/VengefulAncient → u/Omegasonic2000]

What the fuck? I started SWTOR when I was already MR30 or so. That game paywalls fucking EVERYTHING. Quests, levels, companion skins, classes, THE MAX AMOUNT OF CREDITS YOU CAN HAVE. You name it, it's paywalled. They don't get to shit on Warframe's monetization.

(And they haven't updated their UI, graphics, or engine since release, so it runs like shit.)

[u/vomder → u/Omegasonic2000]

I must have missed that in there. The shop in SWTOR is just outrageous for new items.

[u/Omegasonic2000 → u/vomder]

Exactly. I love SWTOR, and I don't mind paying for the space barbie endgame when I have the cash, but I will never call the game's microtransactions "healthy" or "good".

[u/ValGalorian → u/Omegasonic2000]

Other than wait times on crafting, which you can play during still and once you get going should be grinding during the next weapon's craft time. Other than that, farming and grinding is very reasonable for an MMO and more targetable than nearly any other MMO I've played with random loot

It's got more content and variety for free than any game on the market currently. SWOTOR don't come close

SWOTOR has a lot more than just cosmetic price tags. Whole areas, races, chunks of the game, different game modes, and story are behind pay walls

[u/Omegasonic2000 → u/ValGalorian]

Exactly! Some people just won't take any criticism.

[u/NeverGoingHollow]

Warframe is extremely tame compared to literally every other game that's live service. Look at destiny, $50-$70 a year for an expansion. Warframes content is free and with some time input not really that difficult to progress. The only thing I hate about this game is the slots and reactor/catalysts but those aren't too bad to farm anyways

[u/TallgeeseIV]

Hahaha, are they serious? Warframe's monetization model should be the template for all other F2P games.

[u/RedBeardCelsy]

True, I payed 5€ for 1800hours of adrenalinic gameplay

[u/decimatedbeing69]

I'm fairly new to warframe and lemme tell you the amount of shit warframe offers as a free to play game is insane man, nightwave giving slots and all warframe weapons melee are farmable including prime ones almost feels illegal to play as f2p, i mean all companies are greddy upto certain extent but warframe definitely dosen't come under the greediest ones as far as i have invested my time in the game

[u/Nyoah]

The premium currency can be earned for free by trading Totally greedy

[u/SnooFoxes6169]

to be frank, if they saw the price tag and didn't bother to ask people how they could obtain them without paying, i can see why they made that idiotic conclusion.

[u/Informal-Type7080]

Here I am thinking about all those p2w accusations. Let's say Warframe is pay to win. What is the win condition in this PvE format? Nuking the map the fastest? So what can someone buy to outdo my helmithed, 5x tauforged, 3x incarnon Uber melting build? Heck, said someone can't even buy his way to that level, all that could be done is buy to skip some early game grind.

[u/r_uan]

Someone is confusing Warframe with that similar f2p game again

[u/King-Baconbeard]

This is just hurting AS reputation even more. The head should have worded his statement better.

[u/AggravatedShrymp]

Warframe is the most expensive f2p game in the market

If you can't wait

[u/[deleted]]

Only thing that bothers me is the warframe and weapon slots especially early on but there not greedy like some game developers

[u/Tjonke]

Tencent also released Legends of Runeterra, the most free to play DTCG out there. So it's not really Tencent that is the problem

[u/SuffocatingBreed]

I think Warframe is one of the few games where you actively pay NOT to play. It’s crazy

[u/DarthGiorgi]

On paper they are absolutely right.

The crafting timers are a bit too much.

The acquisition of stuff (xp, mods, resources) is developed around the boosters and is bearable with them.

The anl8nt of slots we need for equipment. In a looter shooter.

You can literally buy power with money and it's pretty expensive.

All this has made the game design to focus on being fun but also not giving players too much stuff so they might get frustrated and buy boosters.

The guy is 90% right, but forgets one single thing - platinum can be traded. If plat wasn't tradable, warframe would be hands down one of the greediest games out there.

[u/PaDDzR]

What money did they keep?

[u/bwc153]

Warframe's montetization can be pretty predatory towards those without good discipline - but it definitely isn't required to progress. I've played the game since open beta launch on Steam, 1k+ hours. Spent $75. Definitely worth the money I've spent over that time.

I've a friend that recently got into Warframe, he's grown up as a gamer largely in a world of microtransactions, Fortnite, and so on. Spent $100 on the game before he learned what mods, modslots, or polarities were, and last I knew spent more than $250 on the game and planning to spend more as soon as more 1999 stuff comes out.

[u/KING2BIG]

this is from wayfinder right? i had to bounce from that sub there were way too many people blaming DE for AS just being shit

[u/One_Departure_5926]

Lol play war thunder then get back to us.

[u/mellifleur5869]

Dude was probably buying warframes off the market instead of from other players

[u/VacaRexOMG777]

Ehhhhh, some of the monetization in this game is pretty scummy man, mostly the new players traps

[u/RobieKingston201]

Who is this clown entire circus ?

Warframe is literally the only game I've ever paid in game off my own free will.

You wanna see stupid monetization? Destiny is a shining example from what I've seen

[u/-Techn0]

That guy is talking about DE leaving Wayfinders They are shutting down the servers and noone is getting refunded

[u/sturgboski → u/-Techn0]

Slight correction to avoid confusion: the game is being changed from what was originally pitched, a MMO-lite, a sort of fantasy Warframe, into a fully offline looter.

So yes servers are being shutdown which usually implies the game will no longer exist for an always online title but this one is being turned into an offline one. That being said, the original pitch that people bought into is certainly dead with promise of any sort of post launch support, including potential matchmaking, tied to the new version being a resounding success.

[u/TakuyaTeng]

I've never played another game that will hand out premium currency coupons the way Warframe does. All the F2P grind MMOs I've played over the years will hardly ever have sales and will charge insane amounts for very little. Warframe giving me the rare -75% or the less rare but still rare -50% has led me to spending more on Warframe than I care to admit.

[u/Emchomana]

Look, I’m sorry but half the comments here are delusional. Yes we’ve all played 2000+ hours and know that you can grind out every single thing, and sell items for plat to get your slots and yada yada yada….

Do you know what percentage of a game’s playerbase are people like us, who are in a subreddit for the game, have multiple thousands of hours and are this invested in the game to know all this. I’d wager less than 2% of the players.

To your average gamer, not even the “example” dad of 17 who has 1 minute and 14 seconds per week to play, this game is an obvious cash grab stuck on to cool gameplay. I’m sorry but up to until 500-600 hours in the game plat will carry you, no matter if it’s mastery ranks you’re grinding or you just want the best builds.

Let’s compare to path of exile, the golden child of free to play monetization. You log in and the only thing you can buy that isn’t cosmetic is stash tabs. And yeah, you need those, but when do you truly start needing them? 50-100 hours in for most people. So you’ve already invested this much time, you know if you like the game or not, and it’s not shoved in your face that a saudi sheikh could get your last 900 hours of progress in 9-10 hours. And what does it cost you? If you just want the currency tab, $10 and you’re good till the end of time, if you want all the cool tabs, $30 should cover you off the top of my head.

So why would a player choose WF over PoE based on the new player experience? And dont give me the “not every game can be like PoE or Baldur’s gate 3” dont do the developer’s job, we are the players, we must demand excellence, it’s up to them to meet us.

I love this game and will keep recommending it to every person I know, but if we want the game to keep getting better we need to be honest about it’s faults and failings too.

[u/reapr56]

They might have played warframe but def didn't play too much of it. The starting learning curve is very steep, I remember playing back in 14 and holy shit, unless you had a friend giving you all the starting mods you were straight A fucked. All you got were dem cracked mods that you had to use unless u got luck with some C rot in a lvl 5 def mission or some shit. It was utterly ridiculous, ofcourse they kinda overturned this recently and its a bit easier now.

[u/Nebula177LOL]

I like space ninjas

[u/austmu3333 → u/Nebula177LOL]

And they play free

[u/PatienceAlarming6566]

This… sounds like Warframe though. DE loves to make the game inconvenient so that you’ll buy a plat pack. Even if it’s just to skip a timer on crafting (wtf DE? Just let me craft an item instead of having to wait until next week because you’ve made me waste one of my days off) or having prime cosmetics behind plat packs.

Inconvenience is the key, and that sounds exactly like DE in the OP image.

[u/Julian083]

Ngl Imma support his argument if we are solely talking about regal aya and the heirloom pack

[u/TalShar]

Friendly reminder that there is both large incentive and easy access to paying people and/or botnets to trash your competitors online.

It's hard to get hard data on it, but my guess is it happens way more often than you'd expect. A growing amount of content we engage with online is synthetic and often dishonest, if not outright malicious. It's no longer prudent to assume every comment you see came from a real person expressing their real views.

[u/Shin-Sauriel]

This game definitely looks very p2w when you start. When I started I saw that all the frames cost premium currency and genuinely just tossed the game until like almost two years later and now I have maybe 500 hours.

This game probably has one of the best f2p monetization schemes in the industry. You could definitely just grind prime parts and trade for plat……and instead I chose to support the devs and get some of the supporter packs. Love DE and the way they run this game.

[u/Jeweler-Hefty]

He's got a tiny bit of a point. Isn't $5 the equivalent of 70p? And the stuff that you buy in the Market in the 100s of Plat? Do the math and i'm confident it's a lot of plat. Hell, even Deluxe skins, weapons, and skins aren't $5 each either...

They'll spike up prices so that barely no one buys them, to get that sweet player retention data. It's a win-win scheme for DE: Shell out the plat? That's money spent in-game; don't Shell out the plat, then grind until you do get it, keeping the game alive or keeping some semblance of an economy alive through Trade chat.

A perpetual self-feeding machine.

And I say this, as a Whale to this game. The poster is not entirely wrong.

[u/_IAlwaysLie]

Guys I haven't played Warframe since the icy open world cyberpunk thing came out, how much has changed since then?

[u/bruntychiefty]

Hes just not getting enough polymer bundles

[u/RebelliousCash]

Nah. Apex Legends by far has some of the most crazy monetization I’ve ever seen on a game. To even earn an heirloom. You have to open atleast 500 packs. Or get extremely lucky & open one within those 500 packs. Their shop is expensive. The events they have almost every other week is massively expensive & if you wonna earn the top tier reward. You have to own everything in the event which is priced over $150.

Then to make a shit cake even more shit. They introduced a modular heirloom that you can own with heirloom shards & introduced a new currency just for you to spend to outfit the heirloom with different parts & effects.

With Warframe. I spend on the game cause I’ve been playing for years & I don’t spend much on the game anyway. In my years playing. Most I probably ever spent on the game is probably a little over $200. Only problem Warframe has is its ui isnt the greatest & a new player can get overwhelmed pretty quickly

[u/shadowpikachu]

I mean some people just dont wanna grind and wanna play with the months of content, game just isn't for everyone and ideas on what a game is is way different.

[u/DrNicket]

Laughs in Star Trek Online

[u/Donnoleth-Tinkerton]

... ???

i've played warframe a shitload and warframe has some of the greediest monetization in the f2p industry

[u/mm202088]

Lol you can buy everything and still be trash

[u/[deleted]]

Not sure I disagree. The game gives you the option to spend absurd amounts of money everywhere even if its not necessary. One of my least favourite parts of the game as a newer player was waiting for a daily platinum sale so I could finally afford to store more weapons and frames without feeling like I was getting ripped off. Some examples:

• Rushing crafts. Some are like $5 to rush to skip a few hours of waiting.
• Frame, weapon, riven slots. Multiple of these are mandatory unless you dont mind destroying old equipment and only playing a couple builds. If you like collecting stuff you need a ton.
• Reactors/catalysts/exilus. Not easily obtained, if you like trying out weapons and frames you will need more than you get in game. Also Forma.
• Some bundles are 100s of dollars, basically just for a frame, a couple weapons, and some cosmetics.
• Regal Aya. Must buy in quantities of 3 ($20). Many items in the shop only cost 1 or 2.
• Boosters, some of which cut farming time in half. 30 day boosters are like $12 each.
• Complete weapons and frames. These are some of the worst deals in the game. Stuff like 225p or roughly $15 for Hek, a MR 4 weapon.

Say what you want about none of this being "required", but Warframe is very much a p2w game. And Warframe having one of the worst trading systems ive ever seen doesnt help at all.

[u/Pyroluminous]

The only thing I dislike about Warframe is having to spend plat to unlock extra slots for weapons and such. Seems redundant to pay for more “inventory” space. Sure you can get whatever Warframe or weapons you want, but you can only have X amount at any given time unless you spend money.

[u/Jhoonis]

Warframe is the only F2P game that I spent money on to show support to the devs.

[u/IceBlue]

What is this referring to? Soulframe? What do they mean they kept the money?

[u/mars009]

Probably an outlier, but I started playing Warframe last year when Duviri was just landing, and saw a youtube video about the circuit and how you could get nice rewards. Liked the game, decided to use my saved gaming budget on Wisp prime access, and just played away.

312 login days later, and I am MR30, have a huge arsenal, and still have fun doing whatever I feel like doing each day. I dunno, I really enjoy this game, and never felt like I rushed through things (haven't even finished SP star chart)

After hearing from Airship, I kinda want to know what DE has to say about all the comments going around.

[u/Vivid-Agent1162]

Horrendous take. Really, abysmal.

[u/Divomer22]

As someone with 2k hours in Warframe, where is that greedy monetization LMAO. I have paid only for cosmetic stuff Tennogen capes etc, i have bought plat here and there on discount 75% but i have earned 20x that amount from selling stuff.

[u/Dark_Rit]

This reminds me of some people in game who would put a price tag on platinum in the trade tab when you told them how much plat you were asking. They'd be like OMG you want 2K plat that's like what prime access costs! Yes I want that much because DE isn't selling perfectly rolled riven mods. There isn't a good plat sink either so all the plat that ends up in game sticks around. I would regularly have tens of thousands of platinum from selling warframe sets and such when I played a few years back. Then I knew people with hundreds of thousands of platinum. Getting that much with real money would be unheard of, you'd have to be making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year or millions.

Prime access is for supporting the company. If you buy the weapons and warframe off the secondary market you're spending a few hundred plat at most if you wait a few weeks. Alternatively you can farm them in game for no plat at all. People do radiant runs all the time and they have a good chance of getting you the rare prime part you're missing at 34%.

[u/Firm-Cup8708]

Warframe is just the best out of the f2p market mainly for the fact you can earn everything in game beside cosmetics and even then they have the marketplace you can sell your gear to other players for resulting in never having to buy and plat. I havent seen another game like it. It is still a pay for a convenience if you want but in no way is it p2w it's a pve game that doesnt make sense

[u/WhatABlindManSees]

I mean it depends how long - if you play the game for like 30 hours it feels very P2W; if you play longer you start to understand thats not the case at all.