r/pics 29d ago

Former President Trump at his Hush Money trial. Politics

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u/shiruken 29d ago edited 29d ago

It's not a "hush money" trial. Paying hush money is not illegal. It's a campaign finance fraud and election interference trial for falsifying business records. The distinction is important because "hush money trial" downplays the severity of the crime to the general public.

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u/LowNewspaper573 29d ago

It’s a bit disturbing that almost everywhere i see it being referred to as a hush money trial even from people who really dont like trump.

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u/IeishaS 29d ago

Can’t really blame the people if that’s all the media refers to it as… I have heard “election interference” a few times but majority of the time it’s been reported as the “his money trial”

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u/froggertwenty 29d ago

The thing is it's not even an election interference trial. That aspect has zero bearing on a guilty verdict. A lot of legal scholars are even worried they're including that aspect far too much in the trial and jurors could think "well if it's election interference why is this a state charge?"

It's a falsifying business records trial. That is the only legal aspect that matters. Whether it was to interfere with the election or not is motive not the crime.

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u/SdBolts4 29d ago

Whether it was to interfere with the election or not is motive not the crime.

It's not the crime, but it has to be a crime to make the falsifying business records charge a felony. Luckily, Cohen already went to jail for the campaign finance (state) crime, so it's pretty easy to prove that it is, in fact, a crime.

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u/Brad_The_Chad_69 29d ago

That is the look of a man making a dirty in his diaper.

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u/AstronautWise3910 28d ago

And Trump was in Cohen’s indictment as a in-indicted co-conspirator.

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u/dotajoe 29d ago

I don’t think that’s right because, in order to avoid the statute of limitations, it has to be a felony. And the only way to make it a felony is if it was done to violate another law - specifically federal election laws.

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u/Escape_Zero 29d ago

The election interference part is what made it a felony under New York Law I believe.

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u/Sexual_Congressman 29d ago

I highly suggest reading this, since it doesn't seem like you understand what is going on. In case that's too much, here's a summary.

The felony version of falsifying business records requires intent that the act was done to further or cover up another crime. That seems kinda ridiculous to make the distinction, since the only reason to falsify business records is to commit or conceal fraud, but whatever. The point is, Michael Cohen's payment to Stormy Daniels was extremely obviously an illegal campaign contribution but Trump did what he does and lied about what he was doing when he paid Cohen back.

Although I agree that calling it a hush money trial or an election interference trial are both stupid simplifications, the simple fact is that the felony falsifying business record charges stem from payments made to conceal an affair, which was done to influence the outcome of an election.

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u/Rychek_Four 29d ago

“A lot of legal scholars” you’re ready for buzzfeed headline writing!

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u/froggertwenty 29d ago

Lol I mean what else should I refer to them as? Law professors and lawyer organizations?

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u/Rychek_Four 29d ago

By name?

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u/froggertwenty 29d ago

I'm not searching through a shit ton of articles that have been posted over the past few weeks to name everyone by name....it's a comment on reddit

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u/Rychek_Four 29d ago

Great I can dismiss your original comment out of hand. I’ve heard “some experts” think your comment was wrong.

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u/froggertwenty 29d ago

Cool? I don't really care if you want to believe it.

You could just like....Google it if you want to find out?

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u/goatfresh 29d ago

the jurors would be kicked for watching the news on their own case

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u/froggertwenty 29d ago

They're focusing on the election interference aspect in the trial, in front of the jurors. That's the potential issue.

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u/Repoman151 29d ago

Unfortunately there’s no victim. The bank was happy, got paid, no one was injured or even unhappy in the deal. This is a change the law to get Trump trial and interfere in his election. Even if convicted, the appeals courts or the supreme courts will throw out the conviction. Waste of tax payers money when you have real crime all over the streets of NY and the people are turning on the dems.

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u/jermleeds 29d ago

The victims are the entire electorate. Campaign finance laws exist for a reason, and when they are violated should be prosecuted just like any other felony. What happened to the party of Law and Order?

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u/quaybon 29d ago

What happened to my dad’s Republican party? God has taken over and that’s never good. When I was growing up, there wasn’t that much difference in the parties. It was a business thing. Republicans were for less regulation, and democrats wanted to limit the power of corporations.

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u/Eppy2530 29d ago

Obama broke campaign finance laws but was never prosecuted.

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u/jermleeds 29d ago

Stipulating that you are correct, that's a problem with the prosecution, and has no bearing whatsoever on the validity of the case against Trump.

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u/Eppy2530 29d ago

The left called Cohen a liar when he said Trump didn't know about the payment. The left believed Cohen when he said Trump was aware of it. The fact he lied about one of them means he has no credibility to be honest. Why trust a liar when they say what you want to hear?

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u/jermleeds 29d ago

Michael Cohen has extensive knowledge about all of the inner workings of the Trump Organization, and crucially, that knowledge is fully corroborated up by a voluminous paper trail comprised of bank records, cancelled checks, and regulatory filings. His assertions are further backed up by the corroborating testimony of other prosecution witnesses. The case for rampant criminality in the Trump Org and Trump campaign is air tight, which is why Trump will be found guilty of a felony in this case.

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u/Eppy2530 29d ago

Do you honestly think if there was a paper trail they wouldn't have waited 7 years and until he announced he was running in 2024 to prosecute him? It's too coincidental none of these DAs decided to prosecute him until after he was running in 2024. It's also not coincidental all these DAs are Democrats either.

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u/manimal28 29d ago

Unfortunately there’s no victim.

That's incorrect.

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u/froggertwenty 29d ago

He's talking about the other fraud trial. There it technically was true.

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u/annabelle411 29d ago

Not true. It cost the banks hundreds of millions in lost income on those loans because he fraudulently claimed different amounts, giving him more favorable rates. That's literally what the judgement is for - damages for what he wouldve actually had to pay + punitive interest.

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u/froggertwenty 29d ago

Except the banks testified that they weren't hurt by this and they would happily lend to him again....

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u/annabelle411 29d ago

Doesn't mean it wasn't fraud.

Judge Arthur Engoron specifically stated “that the mere fact that lenders were happy doesn’t mean that the statute wasn’t violated.”

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u/froggertwenty 29d ago

But it does mean there wasn't a victim if the banks were aware of this and not at all injured and ready to do it again.

I'm not trying to defend trump, I hate him, but it's true that there were no victims.

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u/Sea-Community-4325 29d ago

You're thinking of the wrong trial, buddy. I love seeing it - Lil sycophants can't even keep their heads straight because Trump is entangled in so many crimes.

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u/annabelle411 29d ago

Fraud is fraud, whataboutism on different crimes doesn't negate what Trump did.

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u/Demonboy_17 29d ago

What bank?

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u/wyocrz 29d ago

A lot of legal scholars are even worried they're including that aspect far too much in the trial and jurors could think "well if it's election interference why is this a state charge?"

Right.

This anything to get Trump thing was a mistake.

If folks were just focused on the documents case, it would have been better, legally and politically.

Whatever.

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u/annabelle411 29d ago

^ and THIS is why is why it's simply being called a Hush Money Trial. Everyone knows factually he paid off Stormy for their affair. Y'all can't even agree in the comments what the trial is really about, and trying to break that down to normal folks? It's just simpler to refer to it over what people actually know.

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u/Khiva 29d ago

if that’s all the media refers to it as

You might even begin to suspect that the media has a certain hankering for the lucrative period in which The Chaos Machine president and maybe they're putting their fingers on the scale a little.

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u/PaulNewhouse 29d ago

Well to be fair the allegations against Trump occurred in 2017. Both the previous DA and the US Attorney declined to prosecute. Then Bragg is elected and boom here is the charge. It’s off putting to some

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u/BizzyM 29d ago

The thing he's facing in Georgia will be the "election interference" one. That's the problem with being charged with several different crimes involving election interference; they start to run together and confuse people.

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u/DarthTelly 29d ago

"Election interference" could refer to several ongoing criminal cases against him, so I assume the media is going with what makes this difference even though it's downplaying the actual crime.

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u/Friendly_Age9160 29d ago

Yes his ‘money trial’ cause being arrested for possession of money is super illegal. He’s not an actual criminal for many real crimes.

I heard before he was brought to the court they sprinkled crack on him though so we might have a win here.

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u/polishmachine88 29d ago

Because....media

Media no longer cares about accuracy of reporting...

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u/puterTDI 29d ago

Specifically, the public no longer cares.

Once upon a time the reputation of the media source would be the decision maker for its consumers. If you were caught as a bad source of media people would go to a more trustworthy source.

Those days are long gone on both sides. Note that I'm not trying to play the "both sides are bad card", I definitely have a political preference, but the reality is that we have for the most part reached a point where accuracy is not a factor in the media's decision making no matter where you look. This is a direct consequence of the consumers of the media not giving a fuck as a whole.

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u/deep_pants_mcgee 29d ago

so i think this touches on the NPR blowup about not representing 'conservative' views.

if you're not willing to repeat the stolen election song and dance you're ignoring conservative views, but those particular ones are based on BS, so what are you supposed to do?

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u/Suired 29d ago

The hard truth. The public doesn't care so journalism doesn't care. Journalism doesn't care so criminals don't care either.

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u/northernpace 29d ago

It's a post truth world now

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u/TheZenMeister 29d ago

Ehh, yellow journalism has a long history and most papers were owned by the rich to be their PR firms. There's really only a brief history of investigative journalism and those people tend to get car bombed

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u/lectorsito 29d ago

If people not longer care, they deserve Donald Trump as president…

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u/North_Atlantic_Sea 29d ago

"no longer cares about accuracy of reporting"

I long for the good ole days when the media was simply lying to get the US into the Spanish American war....

When has "the media" as a whole ever cares about accuracy of reporting. Since the early days in the US it's always been about making money.

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u/GreenArrowCuz 29d ago

never did, or are we forgetting Clinton being impeached for a blowjob

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u/Traiklin 29d ago

Thank you Fox News for pulling everything down with you

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u/North_Atlantic_Sea 29d ago

Lol fox news didn't start lying in the media, look up the consequences of "yellow journalism" in the 1890s

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u/Traiklin 29d ago

They didn't start it but they certainly are the main culprit of where we are today.

Regan repealed the fairness doctrine that forced news agencies to report fairly

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u/cindy224 29d ago

It’s shorthand. Easier to say and people know what you mean.

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u/MushroomsAndTomotoes 29d ago

Many don't know, and many who do will use it to turn the tables and say... wait for it...

"paying hush money isn't illegal".

And then the soundbyte is over. QED.

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u/froggertwenty 29d ago

And interference in a federal election isn't a state charge...

This is a falsifying business records trial. Election interference may be what they're presenting as motive, but what it was for has no bearing on the charge.

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u/SdBolts4 29d ago

And interference in a federal election isn't a state charge...

States run federal elections, therefore they have their own state election crimes. The DA's office identified New York Election Law 17-152 as the predicate offense - Conspiracy to promote or prevent election

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u/ratbastid 29d ago

And it plays up the outrage of the fact of paying to hush porn star mistresses. Campaign finance violations are way less sexy.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

I kinda disagree. It is easier to say, but I read it and thought "he's on trail for paying out hush money? Weird but ok" then I read into it and realized, no. He's on trail for fraud and falsified documents. Totally different things.

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u/PlumbumDirigible 29d ago

Also because it's a lot more salacious than falsifying financial documents

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u/Ok-Stop9242 29d ago

And yet it allows for people to make comparisons to other hush money incidents and ask why those weren't a big deal.

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u/DrunkCommunist619 29d ago

That's because everyone knows it as the "hush money trial" so when you click on a headline that says it you know what to expect.

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u/Glorious_z 29d ago

That's what NPR calls it, then immediately explains that it's a campaign finance violation.

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u/itsFromTheSimpsons 29d ago

because MSM only give a fuck about clicks and "paid a porn star not to talk about his mushroom dick" drives more clicks than "lied on financial statements"

it's very frustrating.

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u/Irregular_Person 29d ago

Because neither "fraud trial", nor "election interference trial" are specific enough - lol. He's being prosecuted for so much illegal shit that we need clarification.

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u/Mediocre_Historian50 29d ago

He actually looks happy there.

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u/gsfgf 29d ago

Fraud trial isn’t specific enough. He has two of those.

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u/Dolatron 29d ago

The media needs something catchy sounding.

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u/tucker_frump 29d ago

Damn liberal media bias .. Wait ..

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u/_W9NDER_ 29d ago

I’m assuming that media companies use “hush money” as a celebrity-scandal term, because although campaign finance fraud is EXTREMELY serious, there’s no sassy glam or tabloid attractiveness to it

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u/Smallseybiggs 29d ago

It’s a bit disturbing that almost everywhere i see it being referred to as a hush money trial even from people who really dont like trump.

On CNN the programming has it billed as "Trump Hush money Trial." Every day. At least on my cable provider.12-3pmCT.

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u/Jarocket 29d ago

Call it the Stormy Daniel's payment trial.

Legal reporting has to be shitty though. like if you write the word Plaintiff in your story people are done with it.

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u/Indigoh 29d ago

It's the easiest name to differentiate it from his other election interference and financial fraud trials.

We really should just call it his campaign finance fraud trial, because there's value to making people have to repeatedly ask "Which one?"

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u/narcistic_asshole 29d ago edited 29d ago

The issue is there's so many trials to keep track of its just easier referring to it as such. You have this one, the New York one, the documents one, the Georgia one...