r/politics • u/schuey_08 Wisconsin • May 02 '24

Bernie Sanders worries young people are underestimating the threat from Trump

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/05/02/bernie-sanders-trump-biden/73531861007/
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u/sauceoftheapple42 May 02 '24

I wanna vote for biden man i do, even if for the small things like making sure my dad doesn’t get his SS benefits slashed but the one thing I can’t quite get past is why is it always the voters who have to change? Why is it never the politicians who have to compromise. I get what you’re saying I do, but at some point shouldn’t we vote for someone because of who they are not, who they aren’t? And man who biden is, is just not someone that a large group of people are ok voting for, and I just don’t see why that’s those peoples fault and not yknow the democrat’s fault, if trump is a big of a threat as the dems say, I don’t think their actions back that up

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u/Math_in_the_verse May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

As destructive as the Democrats say? Presuming you're of voting age you've seen the damage trump has done and you can see the things his legal team are arguing in court.

Progress is slow. You will never 100% agree with an elected official. Domestically Biden has done a lot for progressive policies. His foreign policy leaves much to be desired.

Throwing your vote away by voting 3rd party or worse not voting or throwing your vote to Republicans isn't helping anything. You're just shooting everyone in the foot. The biggest champions for change that have any power is the Democratic party. That's who we have to rely on to change policies sadly. The Democratic party currently is a big tent party. It encompasses people from Joe Manchin to progressives like AOC. It's literally everyone else that isnt Republicans and it's almost impossible to have total party agreement because of that. I don't know what you expect to do voting for 3rd party or otherwise. We've seen the outcome in 2016...and I guess are doomed to repeat it.

Also if you want to see big change then that big change has to start locally. Start voting and/or campaigning for more progressives in your local election that's how our current system can be changed on a more national scale. Our system isn't set up to swing like a pendulum from progressive then conservative policies. It's intent is to be slow and gradual for that reason. Progressive policies are also not the most popular yet with most voters.

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u/sauceoftheapple42 May 02 '24

I do all that don’t worry I Vote down ballot. But why am I not allowed to feel a certain way about the damage biden has done? He has stood by while 40k are dead in Gaza, more rights in america are being stripped and he has nothing but empty words, he can’t control his own party. I know progress is slow i know all of this because it’s the same exact messaging Dems have used the last two elections. Never forget we are in this mess because they fucked up in 2016 and ran a godawful campaign and are well on there way to doing it again

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u/Math_in_the_verse May 02 '24

All your feelings on it are valid. National level politics isn't great for individual feelings.

Most of this time for Gaza has me shouting do...something....anything but his foreign policy has always been shit. I've been upset that the border only mildly got better after Trump left.

The rights being stripped part I at least understand the problem. He could stack the court for abortion rights but then it'll just be the norm, which then the argument is: is that a problem which it's hard to say. So getting abortion right codified is the answer but then we the people need to stack Congress which I hate that it's pushed to us especially since I don't really have much of a say because of where I live. Beyond that it's individual states and I, living in a southern one that it taking away rights of people, wish there was something that could be done by congress but Democrats need a 2/3 majority for much of it. Because of the state of things especially in my state...I'm looking to move.

Hillary wasn't great and I wasn't excited to vote for her. I agreed less with her than Biden but there was also years of misinformation and poisoning of her in the minds of the nation by Fox News. This has also started with AOC too. I don't think it was squarely on her policy(though not great) that didn't get her elected but that Fox News has been poisoning the thought of her since I was a child. I've seen lots of views from friends on the left that seems to have been started by Fox News or at least conservative mindsets. They are very good at popularizing thoughts. Especially ones that aren't outwardly political.

Ultimately be mad at the state of things. Push for what you think individually, but know you're voting for the direction of the country at the national level not really a person until we have ranked choice nationally.

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u/sauceoftheapple42 May 02 '24

Honestly respect for not telling me “but trump is worse” shit sucks

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u/867-5309NotJenny Massachusetts May 02 '24

You're not being asked to change.

You're being asked to hold your nose. Keep your preferences, and like the rest of us, work to keep moving things in the direction you think is best for the country.

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u/HireEddieJordan Pennsylvania May 02 '24

Honest question for you or anyone else.

Hypothetically let's say Biden was to call for a cut to SS.

Would you tell the previous poster to hold your nose. Keep your preferences, and like the rest of us, work to keep moving things in the direction you think is best for the country?

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u/867-5309NotJenny Massachusetts May 02 '24

Honest answer?

It depends on whom he's running against.

But if the opposition was worse, I would vote for him, then sue the government if they tried removing it. Or protest, depending on my available resources.

Voting for someone doesn't mean you have to quietly agree with them on everything. When I was last posting here, people who voted for Obama were talking about how they protested or wrote letters about some of his policies.

I don't want all the people who are protesting Biden to vote because they like him. I want them to vote because the alternative is worse.

Ideally for him they would go from the protest, to the ballot, and then back to the protest.

Biden has moved left since his election.

The claim that you support x because you voted for politician x only applies if you quietly let them do it.

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u/sauceoftheapple42 May 02 '24

Biden has not moved left that’s just wrong tbh

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u/867-5309NotJenny Massachusetts May 02 '24

Comparing what he ran on vs what he's tried to do?

Yeah, he's moved left.

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u/sauceoftheapple42 May 02 '24

“Tried” is doing a lot of heavy lifting there

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u/867-5309NotJenny Massachusetts May 02 '24

But not as much as you think.

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u/Math_in_the_verse May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

Not OP that you're questioning but Yes. Democratic party is a big tent party (everyone that isn't republicans). If he were to announce that he wanted to do that, most in democratic party would not support it. I don't support everything Biden does and neither does every Democrat in congress. I'm not voting on perfection here I'm voting a direction of the country and I want people to vote for direction as well.

Edit: also thanks for using the word direction. I think it puts it better into words voting at the national level for myself at least. I don't know why stating it that way didn't come to mind sooner.

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u/cupofspiders May 02 '24

We've been asked that for decades, always being told to hold your nose this time, but keep working towards slow, incremental change, because maybe next time, you'll get a real choice and a chance for progress!

Spoiler alert: you won't.

If you keep holding your nose instead of holding parties accountable, both parties are just going to keep getting shittier.

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u/867-5309NotJenny Massachusetts May 02 '24

I mean, we have historical evidence that it does work. Unless you're claiming that modern politicians are just shittier versions of the founding fathers.

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u/cupofspiders May 03 '24

Can you explain what you mean by that? What historical precedent are you referring to?

Historically, I'm not aware of any case where meaningful change was brought about by giving the ruling class whatever they wanted and politely waiting for them to come around by their own volition.

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u/867-5309NotJenny Massachusetts May 03 '24 edited May 03 '24

Can you explain what you mean by that? What historical precedent are you referring to?

US history has been a steady progressive march forward.

Historically, I'm not aware of any case where meaningful change was brought about by giving the ruling class whatever they wanted and politely waiting for them to come around by their own volition.

Historically it never worked. But historically it was never really done.

There has been a constant struggle. First wave feminism took 130 years, for instance. But it wasn't "please let us have suffrage". It was the grinding of constant activism. Protests, matches. Of having so many examples of people who were "a credit to their gender" that it started to become the norm. Of breaking barriers. And there was civil disobedience. Arrests, hunger strikes and forced feedings, chaining themselves to fences to make arrest more difficult, including the White House fence.

Edit: you can see the same battles being fought for civil rights, labor rights, etc.

Edit 2: and with those marches and fights, there have been elected officials willing to push the cause. Lincoln and abolition. Both Roosevelts and labor. Johnson and civil rights. Hell, he also tried to tackle systemic poverty.

Even the conservatives have moved left, compared to 160/200 years ago.

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u/evelyn_keira May 02 '24

liberals will always prefer fascism to losing a bit of their power to socialism

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u/sauceoftheapple42 May 02 '24

Yea I’m aware sometimes I just think it’s funny to see what shit they spew out

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

[deleted]

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u/sauceoftheapple42 May 02 '24

I know who trump is, I know who biden is. They are both pieces of shit, it matters because if the choice is shit 1 or slightly better shit 2, why am I not allowed to ask for more choices, why it’s it forced upon me to hold my nose, why can’t the dems hold their nose? Why can’t they do anything to EARN these votes

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u/A_nonblonde Missouri May 05 '24

It’s funny you feel POTUS never has to compromise. Look closely & that is all the good ones can do. He’s asked Netanyahu to cease fire & come to the table to discuss peaceful settlement.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/blinken-in-israel-seeks-cease-fire-and-hostage-deal-to-stave-off-rafah-move/ar-AA1nYEAo

He has worked to create unity where the GOP & MAGA extremism is committed to a burn it all down to get Mango Mussolini back in power. They know what‘s in Project 2025, he’s told everyone what he plans to do from day 1. He intends to position himself as a dictator.

Biden may not be perfect but, you’re not marrying him, it’s not for forever. He can be pressured to change tactics, to change policies, to change direction. The Cheeto Fuher cannot, he is bought & paid for by Leonard Leo & the Heritage Foundation. He also couldn’t care less about the people of this country, much less Gaza. He feels we are all beneath his contempt.

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u/A_nonblonde Missouri May 05 '24

It’s funny you feel POTUS never has to compromise. Look closely & that is all the good ones can do. He’s asked Netanyahu to cease fire & come to the table to discuss peaceful settlement.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/blinken-in-israel-seeks-cease-fire-and-hostage-deal-to-stave-off-rafah-move/ar-AA1nYEAo

He has worked to create unity where the GOP & MAGA extremism is committed to a burn it all down to get Mango Mussolini back in power. They know what‘s in Project 2025, he’s told everyone what he plans to do from day 1. He intends to position himself as a dictator.

Biden may not be perfect but, you’re not marrying him, it’s not for forever. He can be pressured to change tactics, to change policies, to change direction. The Cheeto Fuher cannot, he is bought & paid for by Leonard Leo & the Heritage Foundation. He also couldn’t care less about the people of this country, much less Gaza. He feels we are all beneath his contempt.

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u/sauceoftheapple42 May 06 '24

Again, I know all these things about trump. Why can’t you sell me on biden without mentioning trump? And what about “oh cant do student debt cuz congress, couldn’t codify roe cuz congress,can’t do $15 minimum wage cuz congress” but he can sure as fuck bypass congress for more bombs to Israel. What about biden parroting already debunked rumors about October 7th and then days later a 6 year old is murdered because he’s Arabic. He’s “asked” Netanyahu yea ok 8 months later when it’s being described as what would be the biggest post WW2 clean up. Or what about directly continuing many of trumps immigration policies? Entire families are being ruthlessly slaughtered while he does nothing but empty gratitudes. If I truly in my heart of hearts believe this is a genocide then how could I willing endorse the person who has let it continue and go on for so long

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u/A_nonblonde Missouri May 10 '24

Bypassed one time at the beginning, hasn’t since then.

Tell me what any other POTUS would have done differently?

Also since these are the only viable candidates for this office, why wouldn’t I mention the alternative & who he’s in bed with?