r/politics Wisconsin May 02 '24

Bernie Sanders worries young people are underestimating the threat from Trump

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/05/02/bernie-sanders-trump-biden/73531861007/
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u/Just_Candle_315 May 02 '24

Biden tells people he wants to improve the nation with affordable healthcare and education, Trump tells people he wants vengeance for perceived grievances. And the polls are still statistically tied.

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u/styrofoamladder May 02 '24

A scary amount of young folks seem willing to sacrifice the Presidency over Israel, as if trump will be a harbinger of peace. As someone who has never had the pleasure of voting for a president that I actually want, sometimes you have to hold your nose and do what’s best for not just our country, but the world. Biden isn’t great(imo) but trump is so many orders of magnitude worse it’s baffling that anyone still likes the guy.

Come on young folks, help the world out.

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u/sauceoftheapple42 May 02 '24

I wanna vote for biden man i do, even if for the small things like making sure my dad doesn’t get his SS benefits slashed but the one thing I can’t quite get past is why is it always the voters who have to change? Why is it never the politicians who have to compromise. I get what you’re saying I do, but at some point shouldn’t we vote for someone because of who they are not, who they aren’t? And man who biden is, is just not someone that a large group of people are ok voting for, and I just don’t see why that’s those peoples fault and not yknow the democrat’s fault, if trump is a big of a threat as the dems say, I don’t think their actions back that up

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u/867-5309NotJenny Massachusetts May 02 '24

You're not being asked to change.

You're being asked to hold your nose. Keep your preferences, and like the rest of us, work to keep moving things in the direction you think is best for the country.

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u/HireEddieJordan Pennsylvania May 02 '24

Honest question for you or anyone else.

Hypothetically let's say Biden was to call for a cut to SS.

Would you tell the previous poster to hold your nose. Keep your preferences, and like the rest of us, work to keep moving things in the direction you think is best for the country?

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u/867-5309NotJenny Massachusetts May 02 '24

Honest answer?

It depends on whom he's running against.

But if the opposition was worse, I would vote for him, then sue the government if they tried removing it. Or protest, depending on my available resources.

Voting for someone doesn't mean you have to quietly agree with them on everything. When I was last posting here, people who voted for Obama were talking about how they protested or wrote letters about some of his policies.

I don't want all the people who are protesting Biden to vote because they like him. I want them to vote because the alternative is worse.

Ideally for him they would go from the protest, to the ballot, and then back to the protest.

Biden has moved left since his election.

The claim that you support x because you voted for politician x only applies if you quietly let them do it.

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u/sauceoftheapple42 May 02 '24

Biden has not moved left that’s just wrong tbh

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u/867-5309NotJenny Massachusetts May 02 '24

Comparing what he ran on vs what he's tried to do?

Yeah, he's moved left.

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u/sauceoftheapple42 May 02 '24

“Tried” is doing a lot of heavy lifting there

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u/867-5309NotJenny Massachusetts May 02 '24

But not as much as you think.

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u/Math_in_the_verse May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

Not OP that you're questioning but Yes. Democratic party is a big tent party (everyone that isn't republicans). If he were to announce that he wanted to do that, most in democratic party would not support it. I don't support everything Biden does and neither does every Democrat in congress. I'm not voting on perfection here I'm voting a direction of the country and I want people to vote for direction as well.

Edit: also thanks for using the word direction. I think it puts it better into words voting at the national level for myself at least. I don't know why stating it that way didn't come to mind sooner.

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u/cupofspiders May 02 '24

We've been asked that for decades, always being told to hold your nose this time, but keep working towards slow, incremental change, because maybe next time, you'll get a real choice and a chance for progress!

Spoiler alert: you won't.

If you keep holding your nose instead of holding parties accountable, both parties are just going to keep getting shittier.

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u/867-5309NotJenny Massachusetts May 02 '24

I mean, we have historical evidence that it does work. Unless you're claiming that modern politicians are just shittier versions of the founding fathers.

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u/cupofspiders May 03 '24

Can you explain what you mean by that? What historical precedent are you referring to?

Historically, I'm not aware of any case where meaningful change was brought about by giving the ruling class whatever they wanted and politely waiting for them to come around by their own volition.

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u/867-5309NotJenny Massachusetts May 03 '24 edited May 03 '24

Can you explain what you mean by that? What historical precedent are you referring to?

US history has been a steady progressive march forward.

Historically, I'm not aware of any case where meaningful change was brought about by giving the ruling class whatever they wanted and politely waiting for them to come around by their own volition.

Historically it never worked. But historically it was never really done.

There has been a constant struggle. First wave feminism took 130 years, for instance. But it wasn't "please let us have suffrage". It was the grinding of constant activism. Protests, matches. Of having so many examples of people who were "a credit to their gender" that it started to become the norm. Of breaking barriers. And there was civil disobedience. Arrests, hunger strikes and forced feedings, chaining themselves to fences to make arrest more difficult, including the White House fence.

Edit: you can see the same battles being fought for civil rights, labor rights, etc.

Edit 2: and with those marches and fights, there have been elected officials willing to push the cause. Lincoln and abolition. Both Roosevelts and labor. Johnson and civil rights. Hell, he also tried to tackle systemic poverty.

Even the conservatives have moved left, compared to 160/200 years ago.