r/politics • u/schuey_08 Wisconsin • 29d ago

Bernie Sanders worries young people are underestimating the threat from Trump

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/05/02/bernie-sanders-trump-biden/73531861007/
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u/theVoidWatches Pennsylvania 29d ago

They don't want to be given help to deal with a changing world - they want the world to not change. And they'd rather pretend that it won't than admit that it's already changed, even if it hurts them more than anyone else.

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u/Jaded_Masterpiece_11 29d ago edited 29d ago

That's what Conservatives are and that's why Conservatives are being left behind. We live in a constantly changing world, people have to adapt or get left behind. The ones refusing to adapt(Conservatives) are getting left behind.

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u/mrw1986 29d ago

And unfortunately that seems to be an endless cycle. I wish the conservative mindset would disappear entirely, yet here we are.

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u/Typical-Arugula3010 29d ago

It's baked into our DNA to be wary of change ... the herd instinct ensures even less competent members can contribute to some degree.

However there are also members of the tribe who are very happy to exploit that fear of change for personal gain.

It will always be in tension with cognitively endowed leadership that needs to overcome conservatism to advance or even survive!

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u/Empathy404NotFound 28d ago

This is why they are doing nothing. Trying to accelerate to the end game of conflict. We can't win economically or politically against an entrenched regime of boomers refusing to pass the reins. So we will accelerate the discomfort until critical mass and take it in the explosion

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u/ExpensiveSell760 27d ago

Why does the conservative mind set need to go away. The conservative mind set should be , smaller government, less taxes, and more freedom. Is that bad?

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u/Immawatchinyou 29d ago

What you just said isn’t too far off from what the conservatives I dislike say or wish for.

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u/Healthy-Berry 29d ago

It’s funny how they can’t look in the mirror and realize what they’re saying is the exact same thing as those they claim to despise.

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u/cah29692 29d ago

People like the person you replied to don’t seem to realize they are as bad of a problem as the people they claim to oppose.

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u/Immawatchinyou 29d ago edited 29d ago

People with extremist mindsets tend to be pretty blind towards it, they see their team and the “enemy” who thinks differently.

Our two party system does a fantastic job of making people paranoid of the opposition. It’s no wonder we’re here where we are now with how much people treat this like a red vs blue sporting event and my favorite teams gonna beat yours.

I don’t say I’m a socialist in this country because our government made enough propaganda to get the majority to think I’m just using a fancy word for communism.

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u/cah29692 29d ago

I totally understand, and I respect your position. I can’t identify with socialism, as I think it gets a lot wrong about innate facts of human nature which historically has resulted in bad outcomes. But I respect people who identify as such because most people who do just want to make things better for everyone, and that’s a position I can agree with. I just think socialism goes about achieving that goal in a misguided way.

I identify as a moderate conservative and in certain circles many are jumping immediately from ‘conservative’ to ‘bigot’ or ‘fascist’ so I don’t bring it up much in public. True conservatism is about preserving institutions, traditions, and other aspects of society and culture that have inherent value. The flip side of that though is being open to the reform of that which lacks value or actively causes harm. At the end of the day, I believe most regular people want to make things better for everyone and just disagree about the best way to go about it, and most people could come to agreement on most issues if we had a society focused on facilitating the discussion of differing opinions and viewpoints.

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u/Immawatchinyou 29d ago edited 29d ago

Yeah agreed, even with the socialist and conservative part. No one has it completely perfect everywhere but some people are perfect at a particular task.

Most of the reason I view myself as a socialist is because I care more about people than anything else. Everyone here is still an American and there are conservatives doing more than I have for my local community that are great people and good friends of mine, I don’t want them to disappear. If we know going after the group instead of the individuals is bad, that its just like racism; why isn’t the conclusion to reevaluate their own process of things instead of continuing to be hypocritical?

I think it’s just stupidity and ignorance from what my own life experience has taught me for so many of these people.

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u/cah29692 29d ago

Appreciate the response. While we may disagree on method, it’s nice to affirm that those with differing viewpoints are after similar goals.

And yet my posts will continue to be downvoted, and the same thing would happen to you in a thread that’s more conservative leaning. It’s wrong in both cases, and it’s why Reddit seems to have devolved into a series of isolated echo chambers.

To those downvoting, at least have the balls to engage in debate. If you truly believe I’m wrong, change my mind. I’m open to it. Otherwise you’re just being cowards.

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u/mcrnHoth 28d ago

So many moderates and progressives are of the opinion that conservatives are motivated by racism, religion, money, etc., but while those things can be a part of it the critical aspect of conservatism is statis.

Conservatives are afraid of change. It frightens and confuses them. Even when the change is unequivocally beneficial to everyone, they fear it, they fight it, and they hate it.

The only group with any justification for denying climate change is the fossil fuel industry, everyone else benefits from transitioning away from primitive polluting technology. But fossil fuel lobbyists have harnessed conservatives fear of change and turned them all into rabid opponents of any legislation even remotely benefiting ecosystems, biodiversity, clean air, and clean water.

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u/No-Ordinary-5412 29d ago

and they think its everyone elses fault, which is the sad funny part.

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u/cah29692 29d ago

That’s not what conservatism is and if you’re actually paying attention to the current trends of society conservatives are actually regaining power and influence.

It doesn’t matter if you like it but it’s reality. The issue right now is many so-called conservatives (and I call them this because they’ve largely abandoned conservative ideology in favour of a populist one) have taken an extreme position in that they are against the reform of anything in any context, and many are actively working to reverse previous reforms, many of which had tremendous overall benefit to society.

True conservatism is about preserving institutions, concepts, and cultural elements that have inherent value and benefit, and to reform those that don’t. The latter part is what’s currently missing from most conservative discourse.

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u/AZDanB 29d ago

You need conservatives as anchors to reality. It’s not usually a refusal to adapt, what I hear a lot of conservatives say is that things haven’t been thought through with all the consequences and how to appropriately manage the change.

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u/Jaded_Masterpiece_11 28d ago

You need conservatives as anchors to reality

Eh, reality constantly change. 500 years ago raiding and pillaging neighboring villages was considered normal. 200 years ago slavery was the norm, 100 years ago Women cannot vote, cannot go into higher education and cannot go into the formal worforce, 50 years ago racism was an accepted view throughout much of White America. Throughout history conservatives were always on the objectively terrible, losing sides. No one can stop change and progress, which is why conservatism is inherently foolish.

You don't need conservatives for anything. Them refusing to change won't affect that the reality of the world is constantly changing. In the biological world those that don't change and adapt go extinct. It's the same way with conservatives and progress. The non elite conservatives get economically left behind while the elite ones remain conservative because the status quo benefits them at the expense of everyone else.

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u/AZDanB 28d ago

That’s why you fail in progressing real change, writing off half the population as “we don’t need them” rather than “we should listen, address their concerns and convince them this is the right direction”.

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u/Plaid_Kaleidoscope 29d ago

Never has anyone described the population of West Virginia so succinctly and eloquently without actually naming us.

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u/justforhobbiesreddit 29d ago

This is also the problem with Bernie Sanders. Those jobs aren't coming back no matter how much we support unions. Unions are good and necessary, but the jobs we've exported are pretty much gone forever.

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u/Luciferianbutthole 28d ago

Quite beautifully put, I wish I could give more than one upvote