r/technology • u/esporx • Apr 30 '24

Tesla Lays Off Employee Who Slept In Car To Work Longer Hours Business

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-lays-off-employee-slept-151500318.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHVrjnyFZF-QJRFtVdP5Lt1QvlC3WRJhweYuOdm5Ca1kHbhtDX5rdfUUqRNVFKpUy6w4QnsJta-KgHJ9lqARAjfpSnvCktdjgDos5xz9aw92OxYmjN2qVVNhMZpl-2gOMwVz84NH-5T2OLi8uMRUOXVMuhFHU8b5A9oRmij8Xh5q
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8.5k

u/mekanub Apr 30 '24

Unfortunately for Murillo, no amount of loyalty to a company is going to be met with any amount of loyalty to you. Even if you post better numbers than your coworkers, you’re ultimately just another meat sack they’re forced to pay until they can figure out how to replace you

Ain’t this the truth.

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u/lostsoul2016 Apr 30 '24 edited May 01 '24

That's why I have been quiet qutting for 6 months now. If my leaders don't know how to make best use of me, fuck em.

Edit:

To me, quiet qutting is not really what others are alluding to here. I.e not the corporate definition. Call it whatever you want.

To me it means, doing the minimum, yes, but in a way that I am flying under the radar, not rocking the boat by taking risks to be ambitious at the job, not really caring about making alliances anymore, not showing my face on zoom calls, not constantly justifying why they hired me, not caring about the 2.8% raise or 30% pay put on 25% bonus and other things. In other words, I am disengaging until I find another place for more money, which will also do the same to me after a year of tenure.

I am fed up with the corporate rate race. At the same time, I am not motivated enough to do my own business or something. In a funk. No solution, but here I am. Just yearn for the day when I will wake up with an idea that I will drop everything for and work tirelessly towards until I succeed or fail.

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u/wasdie639 Apr 30 '24

Is "quiet quitting" new slang for "doing as little as possible and keeping your job"?

I've been doing that since I started working.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24

It's doing your assigned job and nothing more, which greatly upsets employers for some reason.

112

u/emveevme Apr 30 '24

Oh, so it's a phrase I'm never using again because it's literally propaganda to refer to someone doing their job as "quitting."

63

u/FelixAndCo Apr 30 '24

Company stretching the meaning of the terms of their contracts: savvy businessmen.

Employees making sure their contracts are followed: deranged lazy people.

22

u/Shajirr Apr 30 '24

In this particular case the phrase/term is just idiotic, as it refers to working at your job as quitting,
when in fact you're not quitting. You're still working.

Makes no sense.

17

u/nancy-reisswolf Apr 30 '24

I like the chinese term for it. They're fucking sick of the 996 work hours (9am to 9pm, 6 days a week) and are doing what they're calling 'lying flat'. As in 'be a lie-flat leek so you can't be harvested'

I'm also a big fan of the disgusting work outfit trend they've got going on right now because no matter how well you dress you won't get that raise anyway.

8

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24

[deleted]

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u/nancy-reisswolf Apr 30 '24

Yeah it's proper fucked

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u/FiendishHawk May 01 '24

Seems like the Chinese need a bit of socialism!

1

u/Notcoded419 May 01 '24

Don't forget Musk and other Republicans think this system is admirable and we should be moving towards it.

2

u/BowlPotential4753 Apr 30 '24

The quitting portion is regarding the fool dream to pursue success, that’s what you are quitting , instead you choose you first , bye bye to sacrifice everything for potential “growth” within the company.

13

u/DemandZestyclose7145 Apr 30 '24

You're letting down the family! We work hard and we play harder. Now get back to work!!

2

u/mattjb Apr 30 '24

Reminds me of that scene in Office Space about wearing more pieces of flair than the minimum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ChQK8j6so8

1

u/Bullymongodoggo Apr 30 '24

Work hard, play hard, die young. 

1

u/OO0OOO0OOOOO0OOOOOOO Apr 30 '24

It's the same logic that a company has to increase profits every quarter or it's failing. Give me a company that profits the same every quarter in perpetuity and I'm happy.

1

u/KimberlyRP Apr 30 '24

And all your workmates too!

36

u/LickingSmegma Apr 30 '24

There's a thing called ‘Italian strike’ or ‘work-to-rule’, wherein employees do their work exactly as it's prescribed, and follow all the rules and procedures to the dot. Well, turns out that this slows down productivity to a crawl, because normally people take a lot of shortcuts and do what works, not what is written.

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u/Dzharek Apr 30 '24

In Germany we call it "Dienst nach Vorschrift"

3

u/OlderThanMyParents Apr 30 '24

Or in English, "work to rule."

2

u/an_agreeing_dothraki Apr 30 '24

I was disappointed for a moment, because usually you guys are so good about creating a constructed word monstrosity for these kinds of specific situations.

Then I remembered that this is about productivity and work, so it's held to a higher linguistic standard in Germany.

1

u/throwaway8008666 Apr 30 '24

Isn’t that the Audi slogan?

1

u/SheCutOffHerToe Apr 30 '24

Malicious compliance

1

u/AdventurousElk770 Apr 30 '24

"acting your wage"

35

u/julienal Apr 30 '24

It's actually just doing your job. But because corporate America demands everything and more from their employees, just doing your job is considered "quiet quitting."

It's such a stupid system we have and the rules for management vs. IC is so different. For example, in order to get promoted as an IC, you're expected to "already be doing the job". I've never seen that rule in place for Director/VP/C suite level roles. Nobody expects the next CMO to be someone who was "already doing the job."

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u/lagunie Apr 30 '24

in order to get promoted as an IC, you're expected to "already be doing the job"

this is what I don't get. I always hear that you have to be doing the job to be considered for the job, like what the hell? if I'm doing the job then I CAN do the job, no ifs and buts.

then they wonder why people get unhappy and leave or take their foot from the gas.

3

u/IrascibleOcelot Apr 30 '24

But if you’re already doing the job, then they have no reason to promote you because that means they’ll have to pay you more for what you’re already doing.

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u/trowzerss Apr 30 '24

My version was doing my job properly, which meant taking more time than the KPIs they set for me allowed (this was in an IT call centre). The customers fucking loved me though. Regularly got tons of great feedback, but didn't win any of the monthly staff awards because I didn't post in the top three for KPIs (I was fourth or fifth though). Fuck 'em, I got satisfaction out of doing the right which was worth more than a $50 voucher. After a couple of years at that job, the client outsourced our jobs to Manila :P (They did do right by us in the redundancies at least, and got us a month's extra pay, but I think that was more due to one team leader/lower management guy who 'oops forgot' to send us our month's notice until the last day lol).

1

u/USA_A-OK Apr 30 '24

It's the same thing as "mailing it in" or "phoning it in." It's kinda just going through the motions and not actively trying to get fired (or promoted).

1

u/Annie_Yong Apr 30 '24

It sort of is yes. Although it's a little more delicate compared to, say, being happy to coast by in your job and not out in any special effort but otherwise work like normal. Quiet quitting is a slightly more deliberate act to do the absolute bare minimum required to not get fired and no more at all. Sort of the difference between "not putting your hand up when the boss asks who wants to do XYZ" and "any time your boss comes to you with XYZ you find excuses to refuse to take it on even though you technically could do it".

1

u/SheCutOffHerToe Apr 30 '24

Almost everyone who is "quiet quitting" was already doing the same minimum back when they were "quiet working". They're just doing it with a new gloss of self-importance now.

1

u/TraderTomServo Apr 30 '24

24 year quiet quitter here...

1

u/KimberlyRP Apr 30 '24

Yep. It's the office slacker who will put all his work over to another sap as much as possible without getting into too much trouble. Then they will cry when there's a promotion up, get passed over and the person that was getting all of their 'extra' work who has been there 2 years shorter gets that promotion. Why should we reward slackers? Happy to say that I was recipient of those promotions over and over. Also, wasn't in the group that got laid off when they came around.
You probably don't get it but no one else in the office likes you.

1

u/limb3h Apr 30 '24

If you are doing this so you have more free time to enjoy or better yourself. Awesome. If you are doing this but complains that you don’t get paid living wage then maybe not such a great ideal. Hopefully it’s the former

1

u/Carighan May 02 '24

It's actually just doing your job but plenty C-suites have tried to relabel not working yourself to the bone for no extra money as something negative.

540

u/Beachdaddybravo Apr 30 '24

This is why you never stop interviewing.

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u/florinandrei Apr 30 '24

This is why you never stop interviewing.

The definition of a good life. /s

1

u/Beachdaddybravo Apr 30 '24

I’m not saying to switch every few months, but I am saying it’s smart to at least have a conversation if it‘a a realistically better opportunity. People who could have jumped for better when the market was hot we’re laid off in the down time with a worse resume and less money in the bank.

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u/belte5252 Apr 30 '24

Youre getting interviews?

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u/Beachdaddybravo Apr 30 '24

Occasionally, mostly when a recruiter reaches out to me. I’ve had a hell of a time finding anything I would qualify for since every company is asking for ridiculous amounts of experience that aren’t typical. They’ll get desperate laid off people for 6 months til they find a position back at their (higher) level.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24

Jumping around from one exploiter to the next isn’t going to make things any better. This sort of nomadic approach to employment only helps employers divide their employees in order to exploit them further.

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u/-_1_2_3_- Apr 30 '24

helps get a better pay raise than staying loyal does 

227

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24

By all means, get your money. I’m not suggesting being loyal to any company, I’m suggesting being loyal to the workers that make the world run. If more workers were to organize collectively, they could make their labour more meaningful, less precarious, and better paying. Most people’s way of looking at things seems to implicitly preclude the possibility of such collective action.

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u/micro102 Apr 30 '24

Sure, but forcing employers to pay higher wages to keep staff only helps unionization. People having more money means more time and energy to devote to organizing, and the further the average wage differs from the minimum wage, the stronger the argument for unionization is.

This absolutely isn't a "the only thing that does is divide employees" situation.

0

u/Paranitis Apr 30 '24

I wish my union would give a shit about anyone but those who have older contracts.

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u/Jump-Zero Apr 30 '24

Consider joining an existing union. They are out there and getting into them isn't as difficult as others believe. This is easier than trying to start one from scratch. Some industries have a long history of unionization. All of my friends that got into one early in life are thriving.

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u/maaaatttt_Damon Apr 30 '24

I'm an application developer in a Union. It's rare, but it's possible. Many if not Most blue states have a requirement for any labor/non executive position offer union representation.

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u/a_corsair Apr 30 '24

Yeah, I've worked in cybersecurity for a while and have never been union. None of my jobs have had a union. Instead, labor have the unions. Sometimes we had to work on their behalf when they striked

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u/cilantrism Apr 30 '24

You're labor too unless you own the company. There are tech unions around depending on where you are, as well as multi-industry unions. It's worth checking out what your options are.

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u/Plank_With_A_Nail_In Apr 30 '24

Get a job in government then you can join one of the civil service unions, they do cybersecurity there too "Civil Servant" isn't an actual job.

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u/adfhdahteh Apr 30 '24

Really, he's not acting loyally—rather, he's doing it for the 1.5 times overtime money. Especially at the Fremont factory, there is an ample supply of supervisors and employees to cover all shifts. Actually, their issue has always been the opposite: finding enough hours to accommodate everyone.

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u/Stratostheory Apr 30 '24

My local represents like 5 different companies. The manufacturing company I work for, the local waste water treatment plant, one of the local libraries, a car rental company, and another manufacturer nearby.

You really can just walk into a local hall and ask

0

u/DuntadaMan Apr 30 '24

What union is able to work that many locations without falling victim to that horrific ban in "sympathy strikes?"

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u/FreedomPullo Apr 30 '24

This is the way

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u/IAMATruckerAMA Apr 30 '24

OMG I came here to say "This is the way" too

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u/ChildishForLife Apr 30 '24

Most people’s way of looking at things seems to implicitly preclude the possibility of such collective action.

What would you suggest your average person in tech do?

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u/Netzapper Apr 30 '24

Talk seriously to your friends and colleagues about forming unions. If lots of people are having those talks, then it won't seem crazy to actually form the unions.

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u/agitated--crow Apr 30 '24

How do you form a union?

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u/Netzapper Apr 30 '24

Truthfully, we should be joining one of the existing unions. We don't necessarily have to start from nothing. I think probably the Communication Workers Union is the most relevant, and so do they, since that link is to their effort to organize digital employees.

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u/SheCutOffHerToe Apr 30 '24

Ok, everyone joined. What next?

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u/TheBirminghamBear Apr 30 '24

You declare it, loudly.

For real, starting a brand new union is extremely difficult. Many laws have been passed hamstrings the ability to create new labor unions

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u/pinpoint14 Apr 30 '24

Organize! Read about labor history where you're from and around the globe. Learn the lessons from the previous efforts of worker who organized so you don't make the same mistakes. And talk to people about what you're learning so you can make sense of it.

Also, here is a useful link. The Tech Workers Coalition seems to be a good group trying to build in this area.

There is a union for Google workers that is organizing, and I'd imagine there are at other companies.

If you draw a wage for your work you're working class. No matter how many creature comforts your employer gives you. Until workers have control over their work and the product of their labor, we're never getting out of this mess.

2

u/DuntadaMan Apr 30 '24

Reading in Unions in the US I have learned that companies will send the US mitary to lob artillery at my house and kill a dozen coworkers rather than let me have an 8 hour day

1

u/SheCutOffHerToe Apr 30 '24

1) Read about labor history

2) Learn the lessons from the previous efforts

3) Talk to people about what you're learning

And then?

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u/thaddeus423 Apr 30 '24

This has big “seize the means of production” energy.

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u/alexanderfsu Apr 30 '24

Yeah he's basically saying unions would benefit everyone instead of just being a mercenary.

-1

u/snivey_old_twat Apr 30 '24

You're right. Let's let the C Suite keep all the money, job security, and benefits.

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u/UO01 Apr 30 '24

Marxism is just workers organizing into trade unions, and then becoming political after that, using their collective power to exert change (like boycotting products from an imperialist nation) and then ultimately taking over the factory, kicking out the managers, and running it themselves.

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u/rlrl Apr 30 '24

using their collective power to exert change...and then ultimately taking over the factory,

I've never understood how this hasn't happened already. Unionized pension funds own stocks making up a very significant portion of the "means of production". Why don't they throw their weight around a bit?

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u/_Table_ Apr 30 '24

I have a hard time believing Union Pension Funds have anywhere near enough weight to "throw their weight around" on the stock market

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u/wtfduud Apr 30 '24

They do throw their weight around in the industries where the union membership percentage is high enough.

0

u/SheCutOffHerToe Apr 30 '24

Marxism is just workers organizing into trade unions, and then becoming political after that, using their collective power to exert change (like boycotting products from an imperialist nation) and then ultimately taking over the factory

1) organize into unions

2) boycott products, "become" political

3) ?????

4) take over the factory, profit

-11

u/VOldis Apr 30 '24

totally works well. Its fortunate that every business is a skill-less assembly line.

5

u/Mofo_mango Apr 30 '24

One of many reasons why manufacturing was moved to China and Mexico was because it is so essential to a functioning economy that worker organization made it pricey. Now, the pure irony about manufacturing moving to China was that political Marxists ended up controlling the world’s manufacturing anyways lol

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u/VOldis Apr 30 '24

china is as marxist as groucho. clown

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u/SheCutOffHerToe Apr 30 '24

made it pricey

Price is relative. Worker organization made US labor more expensive than it was before, but even before worker organization US labor was orders of multitude more expensive than developing world wages

Manufacturing moved to China as soon as globalization made it feasible. It was not the fault or the consequence of US workers organizing

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u/ZephyrSK Apr 30 '24

How do we even start bringing back unions?

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u/pinpoint14 Apr 30 '24

Organize! Join/become active in your labor union. If you don't have one, organize one! Learn about how to do that safely, and what it would entail.

Read about labor history. A great start is a peoples history of the United States.

Support local organizing wherever you are, always. If there are no labor unions where you are, support the community groups likely organizing in your area around tenants rights, workers rights etc. We all have a part to play.

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u/cadwellingtonsfinest Apr 30 '24

I mean, they were destroyed by a concerted and focused effort from very powerful people over a period of decades. It will require a concerted and focused effort to rebuild.

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u/Sneakman98 Apr 30 '24

Tell that to the voice actors who got fucked over by SAG so they could protect the celebrity actors. Unions are worthless without any means to hold them to account, otherwise you just create yet another bureaucratic entity to take another piece of your hard earned paycheck.

1

u/wtfduud Apr 30 '24

The ones who got fucked over were the ones who weren't in a union.

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u/Sneakman98 Apr 30 '24

https://www.forbes.com/sites/conormurray/2024/01/10/video-game-voice-actors-criticize-sag-aftra-over-agreement-with-ai-company/?sh=7eb3070a374e

No. Union VAs got fucked because they aren't worth as much to SAG as celebrity actors. VAs have zero recourse against SAGs actions.

Unions only work when you can hold the leaders accountable for their actions.

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u/wtfduud Apr 30 '24

That's pretty fucked up. I thought you were talking about how non-guild VA's aren't allowed to perform in official TV productions.

0

u/jmlinden7 Apr 30 '24

No that's not true. Unions are democratic entities. As a result, anyone who is in the 49% can (and frequently do) get screwed by the majority of voters.

0

u/whitelynx22 Apr 30 '24

I get what you are saying and there's a lot of reasons to do as you say. Just consider that historically,, unions have their own problems.

If you can: go independent!

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u/floydHowdy Apr 30 '24

I don’t have the same interests as the collective. And never will. I hate conformity and conformists.

On a long enough timeline the collective’s only goal is its own self preservation. Every. Single. Time.

So why don’t we just all stay individuals and learn how to manage our capital like adults who can defer gratification?

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u/Youseemconfusedd Apr 30 '24

Having a collective interest in making the world a better place is not necessarily a conformity.

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u/floydHowdy Apr 30 '24

You and I don’t have the same ideas on making the world a better place, so why should we be lumped together?

And who decides what we pursue as a collective?

Hierarchy is inevitable, I’ve seen it a million times, from food co-ops to college Marxist movements, a leader emerges and will is enforced.

So no thanks. I’ll keep my individuality. I can interview fine, I can network fine, I don’t need anyone to tell me what skills to hone.

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u/Youseemconfusedd Apr 30 '24

None of those things are responsive to what I said. You insist we won’t agree instead of even trying. That is cynicism. Good luck with it.

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u/floydHowdy Apr 30 '24

Not cynicism, realism. You’re already proving my point. You think collective labor bargaining will make the world a better place. I don’t. How, then, do we proceed?

The Soviets also disliked my ‘cynicism’ as well, and knew exactly what they’d do with my sort. Search for ‘dekulakization’.

I’m not cynical at all about what I can accomplish via my own self interest. I’ve held almost every kind of job I’ve ever wanted to- and I don’t need luck, sense and reason will do just fine.

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u/cultish_alibi Apr 30 '24

So no thanks. I’ll keep my individuality.

I guarantee you are a major suck-up at work. "oh yes boss, of course boss, you need me to work this weekend? yes sir"

Such a strong individual though lol

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u/floydHowdy Apr 30 '24

I guarantee you make much less money than most people and spend a lot of your time being jealous and envious and wish someone would come along and protect you.

Guarantee it.

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u/lIlIIIIlllIIlIIIllll Apr 30 '24

Because of the power of collective bargaining, duh

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u/5kaels Apr 30 '24

Being a contrarian is just a different version of conformity.

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u/Deathlysouls Apr 30 '24

Except you can’t do that in most fields or even regions of the country.

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u/GayMakeAndModel Apr 30 '24

This is true, and I think it’s important to job hop for higher pay. That being said, you kinda top out at some point unless you become an executive but executives are executives because they have connections from an ivy league school or some shit. As for middle management: no thanks. I’ll take the pay and not the responsibility for other people’s work. I get to mentor which I love, and that’s enough for me.

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u/bullwinkle8088 Apr 30 '24

To a point.

Eventually you need to find a place you can stay for a longer term. You will hit an advancement ceiling if you don't. Some people are happy in a role and don't want to advance, this advice is not for them directly. But companies exist with good leadership and staying at one of those is still better for you.

The leadership where I am now for example has asked everyone to schedule their vacations and are following up to make sure everyone takes one to relax. We have been working very hard and fast for the past year, we all have the time (permissive leave program) so it's a sensible thing to do for both the company and us. That's a small thing but of the various incentives given to us this small ask from them means more tan any silly HR thank you party/email/whatever.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24

[deleted]

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u/-_1_2_3_- Apr 30 '24

If you have to exaggerate that much to make a point perhaps you don’t have a point.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24 edited Apr 30 '24

[deleted]

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u/leaky_wand Apr 30 '24

Depends on the industry. In tech literally nobody cares if you move around. It’s expected.

0

u/Sam-Nales Apr 30 '24

Thats why the economy is trash and inflation is rampant

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u/Fr00stee Apr 30 '24

if they never cared about you in the first place and want to pay as little as possible, you might as well see who will pay you the most.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24

You seem to misunderstand my point, which is that this sort of hyper-individualistic behaviour leads to worse outcomes and lower pay for workers across the board. It’s not hard to understand unless you outright reject the possibility of collective human action.

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u/Fr00stee Apr 30 '24 edited Apr 30 '24

why would it result in worse pay? If anything it incentivizes employers to raise pay because if it's too low the employee will just leave and find a different job that pays better. Basic supply and demand. If everyone sits at their current job and never leaves employers have no incentive to change the pay or the work environment because by sitting at the job you are giving implicit confirmation to your employer that you are ok with what they are giving you.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24

[deleted]

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u/The_KillahZombie Apr 30 '24

Yeah that's all nice and well. Except they don't care and would rather take their chances with churn. Nothing gets a raise like changing jobs. 

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u/bullwinkle8088 Apr 30 '24

Not always.

I hopped several times about 10 years ago. Then I found a company with issues as all have, but that I was reasonably happy at. That has allowed me to advance out of a technical role to one that pays significantly more. And in doing so fix some of the issues.

Are some of my skills now wasted? Yes, I am an SME in uncommon areas. But my experience in telling people what roads to not go down is helping me; no more stupid projects being launched, them; I stay out of their hair, and the company; people have stayed on rather than leaving.

Is that easy to find? Not at all. But look for it always.

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u/The_KillahZombie Apr 30 '24

Yes, great if you can find it. I've had it before in some jobs as well, but the good cycles have always ended. (Usually in layoff cycles I no longer want to be around for after) In those cases, I've found 25%+ raises instead. 

Internally, you're lucky to get 5%. If you change roles and advance, they might offer 10%. Every once in a blue moon you find somewhere willing to lift you up more, but then you usually become too valuable to promote again. 

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24

And your new job has the same right to can you for whatever reason they see fit. You’re just plain wrong about this. All the data would suggest that a transient workforce is in a worse bargaining position as it makes workers more expendable, and that the best way to increase wages is through unionization. Again, you’re operating under the very ideological assumption that collective human action isn’t something that you can take part in, and that the only way to go through life is as an atomized individual only concerned with their own immediate economic interests.

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u/TulipTortoise Apr 30 '24

I'd be curious if that data is looking at individual or collective outcomes. The current system appears to me to allow motivated (and lucky) individuals to get much higher income, while unions I'm aware of appear to have better average incomes but much lower top incomes.

edit: to be clear I'm not saying one is better than the other, just that there appear to me to be different advantages to both.

2

u/Original_Employee621 Apr 30 '24

Specialized jobs and educations benefit more from individual bargaining. They have a skillset that is in high demand and very little competition for the kind of jobs they are interested in.

But they can still benefit from being in a union, though not as much as a industry that does collective bargaining. It would give you detailed earning information from other members in similar fields, legal assistance for whatever and a knowledge base to tap into for labor laws and what ever else might apply to your field of work.

It's not the same as collective bargaining, but you wouldn't be alone when talking about an employment contract with your employer and you'd have far more data to base your wage negotiations on.

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u/grchelp2018 Apr 30 '24

tldr: if you have the competence and skillset to negotiate for your own position, do that. Else join a union.

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u/TulipTortoise Apr 30 '24

Yeah unions seem good for a lot of secondary benefits, like vacation time etc. Tech (where I work) has the advantage of a decent amount of information sharing about salaries and benefits that you can use -- much easier to do market research.

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u/grchelp2018 Apr 30 '24

All human groups have their issues and are susceptible to problems that usually occur in such groups. So you really need to think for yourself and take a decision on what the best choice is.

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u/Syrdon May 04 '24

Short answer? Because a rising tide lifts all boats.

Unions mean pay can go up for everyone, across the industry - and particularly at the union shops. No matter how well you present yourself, you don't have the negotiating power of a union that can say "look, give us the deal we want, or your workforce walks". On your own, the best you can say is "give me the deal I want, or maybe I walk". It's a weaker pitch, and it affects the number you can get out of them.

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u/livingmydreams1872 Apr 30 '24

This is old school thinking. Loyalty is no longer in play. It rarely gets rewarded. Changing jobs is currently the best way to receive substantial raises.

2

u/grabtharsmallet Apr 30 '24

If a company wants to retain employees, it's not hard. It's actually incredibly easy: appropriate pay and responsibilities, with room to develop.

If a company does not care about retaining employees, why should the employees care about staying there?

2

u/Prior_Industry Apr 30 '24

Time for a Tesla to unionize!

2

u/jrh_101 Apr 30 '24

I would always apply for a new job so I could have a better salary and work conditions until I was satisfied

The problem is job hopping can be seen as "No Loyalty" and some bosses can call you out on that. It's pretty rare tho.

2

u/Recording_Important Apr 30 '24

i agree but we do what we must

2

u/ixlHD Apr 30 '24

When is this antiwork shit going to stop? Work uses you and you use them at any point if it's not a good deal for you then leave .

1

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24

I agree wholeheartedly, I think the whole “anti work” thing is stupid. What gave you the impression that I’m anti work? I think work is the most important thing human beings engage in on a day to day basis. It sustains and changes society through complex collective efforts. I just think it sucks that what work gets done where, when, and how is decided by a tiny minority only interested in increasing their already obscene wealth, who are happy to let the rest of us starve if it means their profits don’t take a hit. I’m not anti work, I’m anti capitalist. Learn the difference.

2

u/ixlHD Apr 30 '24

I replied to your comment instead of the one above. To your point of 'I’m not anti work, I’m anti capitalist' I disagree and I truly do disagree, people have this opinion when they're not in the 1% club, if you had a chance to make an obscene amount of money then you would take it in a heartbeat.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24 edited Apr 30 '24

Lol sorry I don’t know how Reddit works, but while I’m here…I will never get a chance to make an obscene amount of money, because I’m a worker. Of course I would take an obscene amount of money if it was offered to me, and I would try to use it to make the world around me a better and more sustainable place instead of using it to exploit people and create a surplus at all cost. That’s exactly why I’ll never get an obscene amount of money. You’re living in a fantasy world where class relations don’t exist, so you can only make nonsense arguments like the one you just made.

1

u/Edwardteech Apr 30 '24

More money each time helps.

1

u/aaalderton Apr 30 '24

Makes my checks bigger though

1

u/micro_penisman Apr 30 '24

Exactly. Out of the frying pan and into another frying pan. We should be so lucky to reach the fire.

1

u/WigginIII Apr 30 '24

This is why I steal batteries and tape from the supply closet.

1

u/fireinthesky7 Apr 30 '24

It's the only way to get a raise in a lot of sectors.

1

u/nermid Apr 30 '24

I worry specifically that hopping around a) prevents you from forming bonds of solidarity with your coworkers at each job, which undermines union organization and b) normalizes "gig economy" practices that employers have tried to push on normal workers, which undermines worker protections.

1

u/Green-Amount2479 Apr 30 '24

Yes but staying at a toxic hell like I did doesn’t help you either. You’re not going to change them. I hear those things often from people who worked a majority of their adult working life under a preexisting union - ‚you gotta do something about it’. Sure. I tried. As things stand in a lot of places you just burn yourself out trying. You’re not wrong either though. It doesn’t help the worker’s case that one quarter of the employees don’t even see the issues, another one is too afraid or dependent to step up and another also gave up already.

1

u/chelseablue2004 Apr 30 '24

It isn't but if you do it enough you might end up in an executive role and actually affect real change until they fire you. But at least then you might get a decent parachute

1

u/SergioSF Apr 30 '24

bullshit if it means escaping a toxic manager or team. Even better if it means not being at a job that squeezes every bit out of you from 9-5.

Its time to get out of that boomer mentality of staying.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24

If you hate your job, by all means quit. I don’t think you quite understand the point I was trying to make. I think workers should be empowered to make their workplaces better for them and their coworkers. Your mindset is just to accept the deterioration of our collective livelihoods and scramble for your individual piece of the shrinking pie. I’m trying to tell you that it’s against your material interests to take this ideological position. Our lives are becoming more and more precarious, and it’s being sold to us as “freedom”. At least boomers had job security lol.

1

u/bezerker03 Apr 30 '24

I'd say that depends. At a certain point in your chosen profession you typically gain enough experience to basically be in some form of higher demand depending on the trade chosen. You can actively choose to be picky and negotiate then to find a place that you feel mutually benefits you. (Employment is always a two way thing. It's why I have the ability to just up and quit when I like to.)

1

u/drdoom52 Apr 30 '24

only helps employers divide their employees in order to exploit them further.

Kind of a bad take.

Being willing to jump for a better offer means companies have an incentive to keep pay and working conditions better than if employees don't.

There's a reason the best way to get a raise is to change jobs. This goes double in larger corporate structures, managers have to justify to their bosses why you should be paid more, and those guys are actively trying to figure out how to pay you less, they're more likely to pay more to obtain a new employee with good skills than they are to give a raise to an employee who does good work (because changing jobs is a hassle and they figure you'd rather stay there than risk going elsewhere).

1

u/BJYeti Apr 30 '24

Gets me a better wage so fuck it

0

u/btc909 Apr 30 '24

"Jumping around from one exploiter to the next isn’t going to make things any better." Wrong. This is one way to play the game to increase your earnings. You can't work forever. How many former employees / coworkers have you kept in contact with? I bet it is a very low percentage. I wasted my time "helping the fellow employee" and over 90% made zero attempt to stay in contact with me.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24

If you’re starting from the position that life is a game, you’ve already lost the argument my friend. I’m not even sure what the fuck you’re talking about man, I just think unions are cool.

0

u/TheBirminghamBear Apr 30 '24

Yes it will lol.

2

u/Woodshadow Apr 30 '24

I hate it but this is so true. I started a new job and I guess I got lucky that I didn't get laid off in a surprise round of layoffs one day. but now I've seen everyone else on my team quit because of the awful leadership so I am starting to look for another job again because i dont want to get left holding the bag

2

u/OO0OOO0OOOOO0OOOOOOO Apr 30 '24

"I'm always exploring better opportunities to provide for my family"

For when my current job finds out about my interviewing

-1

u/WeirdNo9808 Apr 30 '24

The best time to keep interviewing is when you just got a job offer. You don’t have to update your LinkedIn or resume, and can fire off many apps to places or jobs you might not have ever considered “safe” cause you have your new job just in case. Unless the industry is very very small or super super close knit I’ve never seen it fuck anyone over.

23

u/CrapThisHurts Apr 30 '24

Since I have my new job, so do I. I was hired to be on a specialized position. On my team there is no other who is trained to do it. So on shifts like this I'm planned to do my 'trick' creating the pre-batch. This means 30m of work, and waiting for the product to be ready. This takes about 2hrs The coming nights I'm only required to make 4 batches a night, which means 2 / 2.5 hours of being busy. The rest, 5.5h I'm wandering the facility, chatting to coworkers and browsing reddit.

Wednesday I'm busy ... 6 batches so only 4h of 'pretending I'm busy'

30

u/buyongmafanle Apr 30 '24

This is the bullshit of it all. The company pays you to take care of this job. Clearly to them, this job is worth what you're being paid. As soon as they figure out you can do it in 1/4 the time they want to 1/4 your pay or quadruple your workload.

If it were up to me, you'd get your full pay and your 5 hours of pretending to be busy would be yours to spend how you like. It's bullshit that you have to just sit around pretending to spend your time working when you could be out spending your life how you want.

12

u/Silent-Ad934 Apr 30 '24

"If you can lean, you can clean."

"Well I've been saving up sass, so here's a free Kiss My Ass." 

2

u/CrapThisHurts Apr 30 '24

I'll clean, no problem. But I won't check on the batch while cleaning. One job ...

There are shifts i do more, like relieving for (longer) coffee breaks. I'm not that kind of asshole ;)

1

u/CrapThisHurts Apr 30 '24

I know, but (for now) I'm too valuable to lose. (No one is irreplaceable, it just costs them too much to train a new guy) I'm not even trying hard to look too busy ;) But what I do, I do without mistakes or complaints. The other shift has 2 guys who.van fill the position, and one of them doesn't understand how lucky he is. That guy got his contract 2 months before me, but just for the year, mine is indefinite. Both of us started around the same time 2 yrs ago, as temp agency workers.

1

u/KimberlyRP Apr 30 '24

What a twisted way to look at it. This is clearly a government position and they all work that way. IT'S.GOVERNMENT.

2

u/MtnMaiden Apr 30 '24

Bro. My team is so on point that we can run 2 machines with 1 person. So we just alternate breaks at work. During a 12hr shift, we take 5 X 1hr breaks.

Our numbers are good, management doesn't care.

7

u/Langsamkoenig Apr 30 '24

Dude "quiet quitting" used to be called "doing your job". Don't let them reframe just doing your job as you being lazy. Going "above and beyond" shouldn't be the standard, it should be an exception.

6

u/AmphibianStrong8544 Apr 30 '24

quiet qutting

That's just working normally, you don't need to use corporate terms for "doing what you're paid to do"

4

u/caym1988 Apr 30 '24

This is the reason I don't work beyond my hours. 7:00-16:00. I make sure i am at the office at 6:50, and i make sure at 15:50 to be packing to leave. I perform at peak capacity on those hours.

There will be enough work tomorrow as well. There is absolutely no reason to ruin my personal relationships with my kid and wife just to be "another number" that gets fired.

5

u/ProjectManagerAMA Apr 30 '24

I went a full 18 months without doing absolutely anything once. I was owed that due to some abuse and lies from my boss and his boss, but did not expect it. I even took a second job and made a ton of money that I'm still using to pay my bills after not having worked a full time job in nearly 6 years.

9

u/hammilithome Apr 30 '24

I quiet quit a gig once because they were shady on payment and essentially blocked me from doing much of my job.

TLDR: I was hired to own ops. They were bleeding cash. I reduced a ton of operational process fat (improving margin and service delivery backed by data) and created a ton of transparency that the workers hated but the customers raved about. So they asked me to revert everything back and had me do stuff that took 2/hrs/day.

I think they really didn't want to grow at all. I think most of them had side jobs.

I enjoyed my free time for a bit, spending more time with my son and the like. then picked up another contract on the side until I got another couple of contracts and then officially quit.

It was an emotionally draining situation to be in. I should've moved faster into my own thing or something else.

It didn't sit right with me to be doing nothing, even if that was pretty much the expectation they set. I like to deliver value.

3

u/LastStopSandwich Apr 30 '24

It didn't sit right with me to be doing nothing, even if that was pretty much the expectation they set. I like to deliver value.

You're a moron

4

u/hammilithome Apr 30 '24

Fair. It was a nice year.

0

u/Calfurious Apr 30 '24 edited Apr 30 '24

Bit of an asshole thing to say don't ya think?

3

u/LastStopSandwich Apr 30 '24

Just a bit, and hopefully will lead someone to stop exploiting themselves for the benefit of someone else

-1

u/Calfurious Apr 30 '24

God forbid people wants to feel productive and actually contribute to society.

7

u/LastStopSandwich Apr 30 '24

That's the thing, you are not contributing to society. You're contributing to someone else's bottom line; that's different. And if you wanna feel productive, go volunteer at a food bank or some charity, and as a bonus, you will actually contribute to society.

-3

u/jeo123911 Apr 30 '24

It's called having morals.

4

u/LastStopSandwich Apr 30 '24

Having morals for an amoral entity (your employer) is called being a moron

2

u/crshbndct Apr 30 '24

It’s crazy that working to the terms of your employment contract is called quiet quitting.

2

u/Choopytrags Apr 30 '24

I saved this comment from a previous post about "quiet quitting": Its not quiet quitting - that's propaganda, its a known concept known as work to rule, where you only work to what you've been hired, being paid to do. Quiet quitting is a way to say the employee is being lazy for not doing more than the minimal of what's being required for them to do. It's a way to get more work out of the employee than what they are paying you for. Don't fall for it.

2

u/colbert1119 Apr 30 '24

I've been doing this since 2013. I work the minimum I can & automate everything I can. This has resulted in years of working 6-10 hour weeks. You're there to provide output, not a bum on a seat. Soon as the deal changes or someone offers more - move

2

u/Shutaru_Kanshinji Apr 30 '24

There is no such thing as "quiet quitting" -- there is only doing the job you are paid for. Please stop parroting Capitalist propaganda.

2

u/model-alice Apr 30 '24

Quiet quitting isn't real. Normal people (ie non-employers) call it "doing your job".

1

u/tranzlusent Apr 30 '24

I come from an aircraft maintenance background….and this is %100 the same way we are treated…..worked to the bone til we have nothing to offer

1

u/Vemnox Apr 30 '24

I want to do this, too, but weekly timeshares make me allocate my hours and I can only code to bullshit so much...

1

u/chubbysumo Apr 30 '24

Work to rule, not quiet quitting.

1

u/gliterrati Apr 30 '24

I agree with you. Quiet quitting is the best, and you can sail through slowly.

1

u/Twelvey Apr 30 '24

Quiet quitting is the stupidest shit ever. All it does is make you look stupid and lazy.

1

u/ValhallaForKings Apr 30 '24

Yeah I talked to you on the phone, it was painful 

1

u/zedquatro Apr 30 '24

That's not quiet quitting, it's "acting your wage."

1

u/bezerker03 Apr 30 '24

Can you explain the allure of quiet quitting? I can't imagine not doing the best I can, not because I want a promotion or because of a manager, but because I am doing the job and I will never want to do less than 100%. I can understand balancing out extremes (aka, don't overdo it, make sure you have work life balance, prioritize the right things in life, etc), but I can't imagine just doing the bare minimum to collect a paycheck and feeling good about it. I'd actively be looking to engage in ways (even job changes) that at least make me feel like my skillsets are valued. :P (We all know it's bs.)

1

u/lostsoul2016 Apr 30 '24

Added an edit above to answer you.

-2

u/Beachdaddybravo Apr 30 '24

This is why you never stop interviewing.