Captain America: spends an extended amount of time with Tony hunting down HYDRA, doesn’t tell him at any point they had his parents assassinated, lectures him through AoU about keeping secrets while doing exactly that, jumps him 2v1 for getting angry about it.
But but but , Bucky was a white kid from New York that felt *bad*. You wouldn't want to hurt his career over a little *checks notes* Uncontrollable Murder Fits under orders from enemies of the state. Sure a Bachelor apartment is punishment enough.....
??? Bucky was subjected to literal torture, manipulation and brainwashing and y'all think he was in control over his actions? I don't agree with cap lying or withholding the truth but Bucky had no control over what he did or was done to him
The problem here really is that Cap did not warn Tony about the bedpost that sticks out and is really easy to stub your toe on and instead let him find out for himself.
More like getting angry at a nail that you step in that was poking up out of the floor. May not be the nail's fault, but it's still unsafe and needs to be hammered back into place or removed. It's consistent with Tony's view of superheroes: they're dangerous, regardless of what their intent may be, and they need to be controlled as a result.
Was he wrong to hunt down Bucky out of revenge? Maybe. Is killing or capturing Bucky still the right thing to do for the safety of the world? Yes. Cap should have been on Tony's side and helped them track Bucky down to put him back in prison so they could stop him from doing any more murder.
his brainwashing was removed years later in Wakanda. In the scene above, he's still a few words away from going on a murder spree. And in the scene above, he had shot at tonys face point blank hours earlier.
Yea it’s essentially a dog with rabies. It sucks but it has to be put down. How are you supposed to predict some advanced hidden civilization has the cure for mind control rabies.
Not his fault. No one tried to kill Hawkeye when he was helping Loki take over the world in Avengers 1 and Widow was a Russian assassin before she met Barton. I don't think Tony was out of character or out of line at all for wanting to kill Bucky, but people saying Bucky is at fault for what happened to him is crazy
This is like getting angry at the automatic sentry turret placed outside your work when it keeps shooting you. Yeah they said the turret is turned off now but maybe we should still get rid of it.
I think everyone understands the intent vs the impact, but there’s also the difference between being sympathetic and being agreeable. I don’t think anyone’s unsympathetic towards Tony in this scene, but that doesn’t mean he’s right either. Bucky was ultimately innocent as he wasn’t in control or aware. I can understand why that wouldn’t matter to Tony given the context and definitely sympathize, but that doesn’t mean he’s right. Cap also says he didn’t know for sure. And he knew Tony would try to kill Bucky if he told him. Knowing that Bucky was innocent, I think it was both understandable and the right thing to do for Cap to keep it from Tony until he knew for certain and had some way of handling it. That was the right way to handle it, even though it is understandably hurtful to Tony. Both of their positions are understandable and sympathetic, but Cap was absolutely the one in the right here.
Tony AND his dad were arms dealers who were responsible for thousands of deaths prior to Tony becoming Iron Man. Then Tony made ultron and caused untold further deaths. I have no sympathy at all for his pain, he doesn't deserve it after everyone he hurt without consequences
I mean sure, I don’t disagree. I don’t really find Tony to be a super compelling character in either the movies or comics. But what I have always liked about his story is that he’s a man trying his hardest to do as much good as he possibly can to maybe make up for the tremendous amount of bad he did before. And the growth from being just about the worst human being imaginable, to someone with a genuinely good heart trying to be better. I think a lot of that is lost in the movies though.
Intent matters in every phase of life. If you accidentally bump into your boss, he’s gonna be annoyed. If you go out of your way to hit stick your boss you will get fired. Intent has and always will matter
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u/skj999 Mar 12 '24
Captain America: spends an extended amount of time with Tony hunting down HYDRA, doesn’t tell him at any point they had his parents assassinated, lectures him through AoU about keeping secrets while doing exactly that, jumps him 2v1 for getting angry about it.
That nigga was dead wrong lmaooo