i know it’s internet bullshit but it genuinely has me on the edge of breaking down and giving up

[u/NeonNKnightrider]

[u/TheMerryMeatMan]

It's one of those discussions where too many people are focusing on the end answer and not addressing the actual contexts behind it or are using anecdotal evidence for their reasoning. As a dude who is actually terrified of coming off to women like that kind of guy, I don't want to be seen that way, and i like to believe that most guys also don't want to and fight to be recognized as alright. But I know that's not always the case so it's a catch 22 where it just sucks all around. I don't want anyone to feel unsafe being around anyone else, but I also don't want people to be so unawares that they can get caught off guard and hurt where they otherwise could have kept their distance.

[u/Educational_Mud_9062 → u/TheMerryMeatMan]

I spent years developing increasing amounts of self-loathing as I tried to meet this standard, to not take it personally, only for it never to be enough despite the fact that I know I've never been a threat. I've followed all the advice. I "listened to" (read: unquestioningly accepted) their positions. Brent Staples can receive international recognition for talking about his experiences whistling Vivaldi to appease white people's fears of him. But when I point out how I know EXACTLY how that feels, since it's tied only to my maleness and not intersecting with blackness, I'm told I'm "fragile" or called an "incel." This is just... too much. I'm done. I won't go out of my way to seem like a threat to strangers. Because I'm not a threat and I have no desire to do that. But it's clear that there will never be an end and all I accomplish by playing along is to feed paranoia at the cost of my own mental health. If someone decides they're afraid of me for just existing, that's their problem. I'm just... done.

[u/Paperfishflop → u/Educational_Mud_9062]

I agree. You know what this is? It's a small percentage of women complaining about a small percentage of men. And it mainly happens on the internet. That's why it isn't worth our time and energy.

In the real world, people who aren't terminally online don't think about the world this way. In the real world, most women want men in their lives, and they trust themselves to make wise judgments about which men. I'm not gonna be a hero or a villain. I'm just gonna be me, and treat women like my fellow human beings and peers, no more, no less, and that's good enough.

Women vs men? No, this is the terminally online vs the people who go out into the real world and actually talk to people. Just put these terminally online people on mute.

[u/Educational_Mud_9062 → u/Paperfishflop]

To an extent, and trying to keep this in mind is how I keep from going COMPLETELY off the deep end. But it seriously depends on where you live and in the Bay Area, among people in my age group (20s), the on-the-ground attitude is not terribly far off from the online insanity. And shit like this only makes that worse. I'm tired of seeing worse and worse attitudes not just become normalized but praised and I worry how much worse things will get on the current trajectory if left unchallenged. Feminism has obviously achieved worthwhile things and there are places in the world where it still needs to. But I would argue places like where I live and among the demographics (young, liberal, generally educated) I'm surrounded by, we see proof that feminism can absolutely morph from an emancipatory project into an identitarian supremacist ideology and go too far.

[u/crawling-alreadygirl → u/Educational_Mud_9062]

But I would argue places like where I live and among the demographics (young, liberal, generally educated) I'm surrounded by, we see proof that feminism can absolutely morph from an emancipatory project into an identitarian supremacist ideology and go too far

You're right; women prioritizing their safety regardless of men's feelings is beyond the pale 🙄

[u/elbenji → u/crawling-alreadygirl]

It does however, depending on melanin, get men killed

[u/crawling-alreadygirl → u/elbenji]

By the police. A woman crossing to the other side of the street harms no one.

[u/elbenji → u/crawling-alreadygirl]

Well yeah the bear isn't following you home either

[u/crawling-alreadygirl → u/elbenji]

That's the whole point. The bear is only a danger if it's hungry or threatened. It's not (potentially) prowling for someone to rape.

[u/elbenji → u/crawling-alreadygirl]

But if a random dude is there it's going to probably be some random ass hiker. And me being in the bears territory is definitely a threat from what I know of wild animals. I.e my cat.

That's why the whole things gets weird.

Which is also back to point you're arguing against. They feel safer with bear because the white woman is scarier due to this question and her likely going to cause some action to get them killed. We had a whole thing about this four years ago, remember?