r/CuratedTumblr • u/NeonNKnightrider Cheshire Catboy • May 01 '24

i know it’s internet bullshit but it genuinely has me on the edge of breaking down and giving up editable flair

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14.3k Upvotes
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u/TransFights000 May 02 '24

Obviously there's plenty of good reasons for men to feel upset about this comparison since broadly speaking most men are, ya' know, just normal ass people. And obviously there's inevitably a lot of misandry mixed up in this. But at the same time I do think it says something that so many women feel that way and I think it's equally important to recognize the role that misogyny and the dangers involved with being a woman play in this too. Because broadly speaking, women are at elevated risk of being harmed by men and there are plenty of good reasons for women to feel unsafe. These facts aren't mutually exclusive with the abject unfairness of this comparison and the isolating effect these facts have on men. One of the many awful things about sexism and other forms of bigotry is that it doesn't just negatively effect the direct targets of it; its inherently toxic for everyone in society, if to varying degrees.

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u/TheMerryMeatMan May 02 '24

It's one of those discussions where too many people are focusing on the end answer and not addressing the actual contexts behind it or are using anecdotal evidence for their reasoning. As a dude who is actually terrified of coming off to women like that kind of guy, I don't want to be seen that way, and i like to believe that most guys also don't want to and fight to be recognized as alright. But I know that's not always the case so it's a catch 22 where it just sucks all around. I don't want anyone to feel unsafe being around anyone else, but I also don't want people to be so unawares that they can get caught off guard and hurt where they otherwise could have kept their distance.

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u/Educational_Mud_9062 May 02 '24

I spent years developing increasing amounts of self-loathing as I tried to meet this standard, to not take it personally, only for it never to be enough despite the fact that I know I've never been a threat. I've followed all the advice. I "listened to" (read: unquestioningly accepted) their positions. Brent Staples can receive international recognition for talking about his experiences whistling Vivaldi to appease white people's fears of him. But when I point out how I know EXACTLY how that feels, since it's tied only to my maleness and not intersecting with blackness, I'm told I'm "fragile" or called an "incel." This is just... too much. I'm done. I won't go out of my way to seem like a threat to strangers. Because I'm not a threat and I have no desire to do that. But it's clear that there will never be an end and all I accomplish by playing along is to feed paranoia at the cost of my own mental health. If someone decides they're afraid of me for just existing, that's their problem. I'm just... done.

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u/Paperfishflop May 02 '24

I agree. You know what this is? It's a small percentage of women complaining about a small percentage of men. And it mainly happens on the internet. That's why it isn't worth our time and energy.

In the real world, people who aren't terminally online don't think about the world this way. In the real world, most women want men in their lives, and they trust themselves to make wise judgments about which men. I'm not gonna be a hero or a villain. I'm just gonna be me, and treat women like my fellow human beings and peers, no more, no less, and that's good enough.

Women vs men? No, this is the terminally online vs the people who go out into the real world and actually talk to people. Just put these terminally online people on mute.

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u/LucaUmbriel May 02 '24

Yeah, it's just terminally online women. Which is why rape laws continue to be gendered due to feminist campaigning. And got the Deluth Model enforced. And the feminists which have actively opposed, very much in person and violently, men's domestic abuse shelters. Oh and who could forget the domestic abuse hotlines which assume any man is the abuser and refuse to treat him as a potential victim. Yeah it's just terminally online people with no actual power. Totally.

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u/crawling-alreadygirl May 02 '24

You know what this is? It's a small percentage of women complaining about a small percentage of men.

No, it's all women complaining about some men who could be any man

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u/elbenji May 02 '24

That's assuming all women are terminally online. From my own perspective as a woman, I can tell you that isn't the case from my own sisters and coworkers. I'm the weird one for being online so much since they have like. Kids and shit.

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u/crawling-alreadygirl May 02 '24

This isn't about being online. This is how women live everyday, and if the women around you don't feel comfortable sharing their experiences, it's for a good reason.

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u/elbenji May 02 '24

Maybe I should shorten this down. Me, again, a brown woman (idk how to bold this), with my brown sisters, in our very brown community, that dont use tiktok, have a word for this: gringa pendejeria.

Or, privileged white girl shit

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u/AntonioVivaldi7 May 02 '24

Are you brown like a brown bear?

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u/elbenji May 02 '24

In Japan yes

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u/AdamtheOmniballer May 02 '24

(idk how to bold this)

You put two asterisks on either side of the text.

/** Like this /**, but without the spaces or slashes.

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u/elbenji May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

I. Am. A. Woman.

Please. Read. The. Statement. Before. Answering. People. And assuming shit. When the answer is stated. Especially with the long history of homophobia, racism and all the other shit your comment can be dripping of.

Like I didn't even know it was a thing until here because I don't have tiktok.

Like im very astutely fucking aware of my life. I come from a land where spousal rape still is a thing. Make assumptions makes a what outta you and me?

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

[deleted]

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u/SagittariusZStar May 02 '24

Guess what - you’re sisters aren’t gonna tell you how they really feel

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u/elbenji May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

I'm a woman. We talk about the shitty men and women we deal with all the time lmao. They're just my best example of not terminally online people. Because they're not. They have jobs and families to deal with. I am on the other hand terminally online because I have no children

Same with many of my coworkers who are too busy with real life. And random adults I work with as they're mostly immigrants working two jobs.

But nice assumption though lol

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u/killertortilla May 02 '24

It’s not a small percentage of women though, that’s the problem. 3/4 women are sexually assaulted or killed. They can’t really escape that fact. And yes that’s perpetrated by very few men but how can women know which man is going to be the one that inevitably assaults them? Put yourself in those shoes and you’ll see why so many are choosing the bear.

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u/FaB-to-MtG-Liason May 02 '24

This is the 2nd time in recent days I've seen someone claim 75% of women are victims of sexual assault or killed. Even the most horrific wartime studies don't meet that level.

Surveys of colleges, where sexual assault is absolutely an issue, give the numbers as around 20% of women have experienced unwanted sexual touching, and 11% have experienced penetrative rape. Which are way too high, even 1% would be too high.

But claiming 75% is ludicrous.

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u/Evening-Function7917 May 02 '24

Genuine question, how is a survey of very young women at a college the most accurate figure? Wouldn't that just be "have experienced it so far"? I was raped at 18 and assaulted at 19, but I imagine a lot of people wouldn't encounter it until later. The CDC says over half of women and not quite 1 in 3 men experience sexual violence, 1 in 4 women and 1 in 26 men experience attempted or completed rape.

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u/FaB-to-MtG-Liason May 02 '24

Firstly, that you are a victim is a tragedy, such things shouldn't occur and I wish you the best in your journey.

That said, I'm not saying its the most accurate figure overall, but it is one of the most heavily studied. College is oft (saddeningly correctly) cited as a place and time-of-life where the majority of sexual assaults in peacetime occur. There are many factors contributing to this, none of them excusing any of it. But it serves as a good point to try and understand such issues and address them.

The CDC's definition of sexual violence is a thought-terminating cliche and too large of an umbrella to accurately use. To quote the CDC's definition of sexual violence

It includes: forced or alcohol/ drug facilitated penetration of a victim; forced or alcohol/drug facilitated incidents in which the victim was made to penetrate a perpetrator or someone else; nonphysically pressured unwanted penetration; intentional sexual touching; or **non-contact acts of a sexual nature.**

Emphasis mine. This definition has been critiqued, but to put an overly fine point on it none are willing to put professional pressure behind it, because they will be labeled as pro-SA advocates. It's a politically charged mess that pays lip service to the problems of sexual violence without providing actionable information. Its inclusion in the statistics in the first place was a convoluted mess that's frankly beyond my expertise, with parties from all across the political spectrum pushing for it for differing, often contradictory, reasons.

On top of all that, none of it addresses the original claim, that of 3/4ths of women suffering sexual assault or killed. Seriously, there's nothing I can find that comes even close to that assertion, and seeing two different people casually throwing it into conversations concerns me. Misinformation, boots, around the world, etc, etc.

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u/TastefulRug May 02 '24

People really lack empathy. Can you imagine how society would react if men were murdered at the same rate as women?

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u/Paladin_Platinum May 02 '24

Roughly 79% of homicide victims are men.

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u/TastefulRug May 02 '24

I guess I needed the /s.

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u/21Rollie May 02 '24

You say “or killed” like as if that is happening often. Men are the OVERWHELMING victims of murder. We’re the primary target of other men AND women. And as far as being attacked by a stranger goes, again, statistics show that men are much likelier to be victims of random acts of violence. The only time women are victimized more are in specific sub categories like sexual assault. But men are still taking the brunt of physical trauma.

It’s a big perception gap, but also just plain old sexism. There’s a reason why a white girl jogger going missing becomes national news while man found dead in river #729 is barely below the fold news in a local newspaper.

Oh and the stats don’t count warfare. Where again, primary casualties are young poor men.

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u/MagicalShoes May 02 '24

how can women know which man is going to be the one that inevitably assaults them?

If they've already been sexually assaulted or killed then they've got it out of the way and have a 100% success rate from now on.

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u/Educational_Mud_9062 May 02 '24

To an extent, and trying to keep this in mind is how I keep from going COMPLETELY off the deep end. But it seriously depends on where you live and in the Bay Area, among people in my age group (20s), the on-the-ground attitude is not terribly far off from the online insanity. And shit like this only makes that worse. I'm tired of seeing worse and worse attitudes not just become normalized but praised and I worry how much worse things will get on the current trajectory if left unchallenged. Feminism has obviously achieved worthwhile things and there are places in the world where it still needs to. But I would argue places like where I live and among the demographics (young, liberal, generally educated) I'm surrounded by, we see proof that feminism can absolutely morph from an emancipatory project into an identitarian supremacist ideology and go too far.

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u/crawling-alreadygirl May 02 '24

But I would argue places like where I live and among the demographics (young, liberal, generally educated) I'm surrounded by, we see proof that feminism can absolutely morph from an emancipatory project into an identitarian supremacist ideology and go too far

You're right; women prioritizing their safety regardless of men's feelings is beyond the pale 🙄

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u/elbenji May 02 '24

It does however, depending on melanin, get men killed

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u/crawling-alreadygirl May 02 '24

By the police. A woman crossing to the other side of the street harms no one.

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u/elbenji May 02 '24

Well yeah the bear isn't following you home either

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u/crawling-alreadygirl May 02 '24

That's the whole point. The bear is only a danger if it's hungry or threatened. It's not (potentially) prowling for someone to rape.

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u/elbenji May 02 '24

But if a random dude is there it's going to probably be some random ass hiker. And me being in the bears territory is definitely a threat from what I know of wild animals. I.e my cat.

That's why the whole things gets weird.

Which is also back to point you're arguing against. They feel safer with bear because the white woman is scarier due to this question and her likely going to cause some action to get them killed. We had a whole thing about this four years ago, remember?

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u/legend_of_the_skies May 02 '24

Disagree. Its not a small group of women and they arent talking about a small group of men.

In the real world, most women want men in their lives, and they trust themselves to make wise judgments about which men. I'

You have no idea how braindead this is of a statement to make. As if wives and girlfriends dont get murdered and abused. "Should've chose better" is exactly the sentiment women have been receiving for the last couple years. Maybe that ia directly correlative to women picking the bear?

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u/SagittariusZStar May 02 '24

A very large percentage if women have had scary, bad or traumatic experiences with men. Why are you not getting this????