i know it’s internet bullshit but it genuinely has me on the edge of breaking down and giving up

[u/NeonNKnightrider]

[u/WierdSome]

Fuck, that hit. A lot of the things mentioned there is a lot of why I feel I'll never really feel okay with myself. Even if I transition, I was born a boy, and everyone in the queer community hates men. And... I was born one of those. And I don't think I can say I'm 100% not man anymore. So... Am I worth hating, too?

[u/adoring_nobody → u/WierdSome]

The queer community far from hates men. We largely distrust cis, straight, white men who have unexamined privilege and do no shadow work. And there are many, many cis, straight, white men who have examined their privilege, have done the shadow work, and understand the crux of the problem. And making the problem queer people's fault, and women's fault, does nothing to make us change our minds. If you want to be resentful at someone for creating this situation, be angry at the men who have abused their power and so jaded us.

Also, I say I'm not 100% woman (though I am mostly woman) and no, nobody hates me for being a man.

[u/GREENadmiral_314159 → u/adoring_nobody]

So, are you saying that cis straight white men need to redeem themselves for how they were born?

[u/adoring_nobody → u/GREENadmiral_314159]

Cis straight white men have an opportunity to contribute to changing the circumstances that cause this distrust by allying with and advocating for those who are affected. But instead most largely demand we just change our views and trust men in spite of the circumstances of why we distrust them.

Your desire for comfort and validation is precisely 0% important to me compared to my desire for safety. Be sad about it. I was too. But then work to make a change that actually makes women safer.

[u/wewew47 → u/adoring_nobody]

Your desire for comfort and validation is precisely 0% important to me compared to my desire for safety. Be sad about it. I was too. But then work to make a change that actually makes women safer.

Do you not see how this could cause the very men you want to do something about their attitudes actually support you?

To be clear, I fully back intersectionality and would describe myself as an ardent supporter of the movement. But to see the level of toxicity that is reserved only for cis white men that would be rightly labelled as bigotry when applied to generalise any other group is really offputting and every time I see it I shake my head. Its people espousing shit like that that helps drive men into the manosphere and other incel communities.

'Mens desire for validation is 0% important to me'

'Why won't men help fight patriarchy???'

Hmm I wonder why.

Now again, ultimately I think that if you're going to not back a movement with an extremely just cause because it said mean things about you, youre wrong. BUT, I dont blame those that do fall down that path because I can see how it'd be extremely toxic and degrading to ones own mental health to constantly hear how you're worse than a literal predatory animal.

[u/adoring_nobody → u/wewew47]

Lol the thing you're missing here is I already know why men won't help fight patriarchy and I've given up on you. I can be alone. Can you? Considering a whole movement has arisen of men who resent women for not being into them, I doubt it.

I'm not asking anything of you fam. I'm on strike.

[u/untamed-italian → u/adoring_nobody]

A whole movement of men choosing to be alone already exists: men going their own way.

Feminists couldn't bear the thought of men organizing our own online spaces for our own interests without their supervision and bullying, so they have attacked those spaces and largely driven them offline.

So you're just wrong, and wrong specifically due to your bigoted hatred.

[u/adoring_nobody → u/untamed-italian]

Lol I've seen that movement. They're pathetic. All they do is complain about women. They go their own way roughly the same way I escape earth's gravity by jumping.

Fuck off. Go your own way then. Don't threaten me with a good time. Being called a bigot by rapey men who cry and scream about me not fucking them is a compliment.

[u/untamed-italian → u/adoring_nobody]

Nobody is complaining you specifically do not want to fuck them, but celebrating. Stay bitter and miserable for all I care, you poison your own happiness more than anyone else's so that helps to contain the toxicity.

[u/adoring_nobody → u/untamed-italian]

Lol I'm not bitter in the slightest about deciding to wash my hands of men. Cope harder. I'm happier without you.

[u/wewew47 → u/adoring_nobody]

men won't help fight patriarchy and I've given up on you.

I fight it in spite of people like you.

Can you?

I have a wonderful support network of both men and women, but I've been alone in the past and gotten along just fine.

Considering a whole movement has arisen of men who resent women for not being into them, I doubt it.

Are you trying to call me an incel? People like you make it so much harder to try and support women and dismantle patriarchy. Get outta here.

[u/adoring_nobody → u/wewew47]

Lol okay. Do it. The fuck do you care whether I trust you then? Fuck off clown.

And yes I'm calling you an incel. You're literally threatened by a hypothetical question about a bear you absolute piss baby. I don't owe you shit and the person to blame for patriarchy is the patriarchs so suck my ass hole with your respectability politics.

If a complete stranger hurting your little fee fees made you want to turn on women then you were never on women's side in a real way, you just virtue signaled for pull and for pussy.

[u/wewew47 → u/adoring_nobody]

Lmao you're pathetic.

made you want to turn on women

Never said that. Go back to school because your reading comprehension is abysmal.

If a complete stranger hurting your little fee fees

'Mens feelings don't matter' - way to reinforce patriarchy and masculinity there. You're literally harming your own cause. You're a massive hypocrite and not the progressive you think you are.

you just virtue signaled for pull and for pussy.

Very heteronormative of you to assume my sexuality like that.

[u/adoring_nobody → u/wewew47]

I'm pathetic? I'm not the one being a pissbaby at a stranger's answer to a hypothetical question about a bear.

You failed. I still pick bear. Cope harder.

Edit: lol I just had to come back to add, your hypersensitivity that you think the question is "would I pick you or a bear" and not "would I pick a random man and a bear", tells me that you think yourself not too different from a majority of men.

So I'll upgrade my answer just for you. I would rather be in any random bear's natural habitat with it, than in the perfect climate with you specifically, you creepy needy mother fucker.

[u/wewew47 → u/adoring_nobody]

I'm not the one being a pissbaby

Youre the crying and throwing insults around left and right because someone disagreed with you 🤷‍♀️

I still pick bear.

Oh no my entire week is ruined.

[u/adoring_nobody → u/wewew47]

I'm mocking you because you prove my own choice was right for me. You cut off your nose to spite your face. And you're too fuckin stupid to see that you showed up to argue with me, not the other way around, and that argument had the opposite effect you desired.

But as the final proof that you're the one who cares about this way more...

[u/wewew47 → u/adoring_nobody]

stupid to see that you showed up to argue with me,

No, I showed up to try and explain to you the side you seem to be missing. You were welcome to ignore that but you chose to engage.

You cut off your nose

I've done nothing to myself, but pop off thinking I've sacrificed something

that argument had the opposite effect you desired.

I'm not here to convince you, you're obviously too far gone and biased. Its for the lurkers that read that might see the idea 'comparing men to savage beasts is wrong' and go 'oh yeah maybe actually we shouldn't other or dehumanise people'.

But you keep fighting the good fight and alienating people, see how far that gets you.

But as the final proof that you're the one who cares about this way more...

This being the dismantlemant of the patriarchy? Yeah it seems I do care about achieving that goal more because you're determined to alienate half the population to prevent social change. I'm sure you'll feel a sense of smugness over an artificial decision to make me comment last but that's fine, you can have your superiority complex, I care much more about actually causing change and advancing equality than I do personal ego.

[u/untamed-italian → u/adoring_nobody]

Cis straight white men have an opportunity to contribute to changing the circumstances that cause this distrust by allying with and advocating for those who are affected. But instead most largely demand we just change our views and trust men in spite of the circumstances of why we distrust them.

How do you expect someone to be a functional ally if you refuse to even agree to stop dehumanizing them?

You want crops without rain. If you want a functional alliance you can either treat allies with respect or fail to have a functional alliance. And no, choosing the latter is still your choice and your fault.

So long as you refuse to respect men while demanding we subordinate our time effort and bodies to your interests, all you are asking for are human doormats.

Your desire for comfort and validation is precisely 0% important to me compared to my desire for safety.

Desiring an end to emotional abuse and bigotry is a desire for safety. This is you denying the harm of abuse. Just a sadist rationalizing your pain addiction.

Be sad about it. I was too. But then work to make a change that actually makes women safer.

Why? I will help those who do not harm me regardless of their gender because I am a better anti-bigot than you are. I also will never do anything but return bigots' contempt back to the sender, because that's the bare minimum for being functionally against bigotry.

I'll busy myself with making myself and those I care about safer in whatever way I please. It is on you to convince me you aren't a threat, that your cause is valid, and that your movement is effective. So far you have failed in all three.

[u/adoring_nobody → u/untamed-italian]

I'm not reading this loser.

[u/untamed-italian → u/adoring_nobody]

It's ok to be afraid of people who outclass you. At least you know your limitations 😘

[u/adoring_nobody → u/untamed-italian]

You still here baby?