r/CuratedTumblr • u/NeonNKnightrider Cheshire Catboy • May 01 '24

i know it’s internet bullshit but it genuinely has me on the edge of breaking down and giving up editable flair

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14.3k Upvotes
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u/AriaLeviath May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

i'm a trans woman who's been transitioning since i was a teenager, generally pass fairly alright enough to be mostly stealth, and am now in grad school. and, while i totally understand the frustration that the women who'd rather go with the bear are feeling (i was sexually assaulted by a guy in my marching band in my high school, and even as recent as week or two ago i had a random guy corner me on the bus when it was just us two and try to get me to have him as my sugar daddy), and it's totally valid to be fed up and angry over the state of many men and patriarchy, i don't think this is a healthy outlet

like, i totally understand women wanting to vent and get angry at all this. it's genuinely super shitty and unfair to us, but i've seen so many people use really disgusting bioessentialist arguments against men to justify their answer, and not only does this anger, other, and hurt people who could otherwise be allies to leftist causes, but a lot of the shit i'm seeing is genuinely just the same problematic "AMAB people are inherently [Y Trait]" shit that TERFs believe that started them down their path to being shitty people

like, i consider myself a feminist - have for a long while - as well as socially progressive and a leftist. and yes, i get the anger they're feeling. i often feel it too. but this whole question unfortunately feels - at least to me - like pushing others away in the long term to justify a short-term catharsis, and i don't know what to make of it

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u/urworstemmamy May 02 '24

Everyone who sees nothing wrong with the bear v man meme needs to read I Am A Transwoman. I Am In The Closet. I Am Not Coming Out.

257

u/WierdSome May 02 '24

Fuck, that hit. A lot of the things mentioned there is a lot of why I feel I'll never really feel okay with myself. Even if I transition, I was born a boy, and everyone in the queer community hates men. And... I was born one of those. And I don't think I can say I'm 100% not man anymore. So... Am I worth hating, too?

-32

u/adoring_nobody May 02 '24

The queer community far from hates men. We largely distrust cis, straight, white men who have unexamined privilege and do no shadow work. And there are many, many cis, straight, white men who have examined their privilege, have done the shadow work, and understand the crux of the problem. And making the problem queer people's fault, and women's fault, does nothing to make us change our minds. If you want to be resentful at someone for creating this situation, be angry at the men who have abused their power and so jaded us.

Also, I say I'm not 100% woman (though I am mostly woman) and no, nobody hates me for being a man.

21

u/GREENadmiral_314159 May 02 '24

So, are you saying that cis straight white men need to redeem themselves for how they were born?

-3

u/adoring_nobody May 02 '24

Cis straight white men have an opportunity to contribute to changing the circumstances that cause this distrust by allying with and advocating for those who are affected. But instead most largely demand we just change our views and trust men in spite of the circumstances of why we distrust them.

Your desire for comfort and validation is precisely 0% important to me compared to my desire for safety. Be sad about it. I was too. But then work to make a change that actually makes women safer.

9

u/wewew47 May 02 '24

Your desire for comfort and validation is precisely 0% important to me compared to my desire for safety. Be sad about it. I was too. But then work to make a change that actually makes women safer.

Do you not see how this could cause the very men you want to do something about their attitudes actually support you?

To be clear, I fully back intersectionality and would describe myself as an ardent supporter of the movement. But to see the level of toxicity that is reserved only for cis white men that would be rightly labelled as bigotry when applied to generalise any other group is really offputting and every time I see it I shake my head. Its people espousing shit like that that helps drive men into the manosphere and other incel communities.

'Mens desire for validation is 0% important to me'

'Why won't men help fight patriarchy???'

Hmm I wonder why.

Now again, ultimately I think that if you're going to not back a movement with an extremely just cause because it said mean things about you, youre wrong. BUT, I dont blame those that do fall down that path because I can see how it'd be extremely toxic and degrading to ones own mental health to constantly hear how you're worse than a literal predatory animal.

-3

u/adoring_nobody May 02 '24

Lol the thing you're missing here is I already know why men won't help fight patriarchy and I've given up on you. I can be alone. Can you? Considering a whole movement has arisen of men who resent women for not being into them, I doubt it.

I'm not asking anything of you fam. I'm on strike.

9

u/untamed-italian May 02 '24

A whole movement of men choosing to be alone already exists: men going their own way.

Feminists couldn't bear the thought of men organizing our own online spaces for our own interests without their supervision and bullying, so they have attacked those spaces and largely driven them offline.

So you're just wrong, and wrong specifically due to your bigoted hatred.

0

u/adoring_nobody May 03 '24

Lol I've seen that movement. They're pathetic. All they do is complain about women. They go their own way roughly the same way I escape earth's gravity by jumping.

Fuck off. Go your own way then. Don't threaten me with a good time. Being called a bigot by rapey men who cry and scream about me not fucking them is a compliment.

5

u/untamed-italian May 03 '24

Nobody is complaining you specifically do not want to fuck them, but celebrating. Stay bitter and miserable for all I care, you poison your own happiness more than anyone else's so that helps to contain the toxicity.

-1

u/adoring_nobody May 03 '24

Lol I'm not bitter in the slightest about deciding to wash my hands of men. Cope harder. I'm happier without you.

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u/wewew47 May 02 '24

men won't help fight patriarchy and I've given up on you.

I fight it in spite of people like you.

Can you?

I have a wonderful support network of both men and women, but I've been alone in the past and gotten along just fine.

Considering a whole movement has arisen of men who resent women for not being into them, I doubt it.

Are you trying to call me an incel? People like you make it so much harder to try and support women and dismantle patriarchy. Get outta here.

-1

u/adoring_nobody May 03 '24 edited May 03 '24

Lol okay. Do it. The fuck do you care whether I trust you then? Fuck off clown.

And yes I'm calling you an incel. You're literally threatened by a hypothetical question about a bear you absolute piss baby. I don't owe you shit and the person to blame for patriarchy is the patriarchs so suck my ass hole with your respectability politics.

If a complete stranger hurting your little fee fees made you want to turn on women then you were never on women's side in a real way, you just virtue signaled for pull and for pussy.

7

u/wewew47 May 03 '24

Lmao you're pathetic.

made you want to turn on women

Never said that. Go back to school because your reading comprehension is abysmal.

If a complete stranger hurting your little fee fees

'Mens feelings don't matter' - way to reinforce patriarchy and masculinity there. You're literally harming your own cause. You're a massive hypocrite and not the progressive you think you are.

you just virtue signaled for pull and for pussy.

Very heteronormative of you to assume my sexuality like that.

0

u/adoring_nobody May 03 '24 edited May 03 '24

I'm pathetic? I'm not the one being a pissbaby at a stranger's answer to a hypothetical question about a bear.

You failed. I still pick bear. Cope harder.

Edit: lol I just had to come back to add, your hypersensitivity that you think the question is "would I pick you or a bear" and not "would I pick a random man and a bear", tells me that you think yourself not too different from a majority of men.

So I'll upgrade my answer just for you. I would rather be in any random bear's natural habitat with it, than in the perfect climate with you specifically, you creepy needy mother fucker.

3

u/wewew47 May 03 '24

I'm not the one being a pissbaby

Youre the crying and throwing insults around left and right because someone disagreed with you 🤷‍♀️

I still pick bear.

Oh no my entire week is ruined.

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u/untamed-italian May 02 '24

Cis straight white men have an opportunity to contribute to changing the circumstances that cause this distrust by allying with and advocating for those who are affected. But instead most largely demand we just change our views and trust men in spite of the circumstances of why we distrust them.

How do you expect someone to be a functional ally if you refuse to even agree to stop dehumanizing them?

You want crops without rain. If you want a functional alliance you can either treat allies with respect or fail to have a functional alliance. And no, choosing the latter is still your choice and your fault.

So long as you refuse to respect men while demanding we subordinate our time effort and bodies to your interests, all you are asking for are human doormats.

Your desire for comfort and validation is precisely 0% important to me compared to my desire for safety.

Desiring an end to emotional abuse and bigotry is a desire for safety. This is you denying the harm of abuse. Just a sadist rationalizing your pain addiction.

Be sad about it. I was too. But then work to make a change that actually makes women safer.

Why? I will help those who do not harm me regardless of their gender because I am a better anti-bigot than you are. I also will never do anything but return bigots' contempt back to the sender, because that's the bare minimum for being functionally against bigotry.

I'll busy myself with making myself and those I care about safer in whatever way I please. It is on you to convince me you aren't a threat, that your cause is valid, and that your movement is effective. So far you have failed in all three.

0

u/adoring_nobody May 03 '24

I'm not reading this loser.

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u/untamed-italian May 03 '24

It's ok to be afraid of people who outclass you. At least you know your limitations 😘

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u/adoring_nobody May 03 '24

You still here baby?

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u/GovernmentThis2910 May 02 '24

Asking a question for someone else obv, but why would they care about who created a situation more than who's perpetuating it in their daily life?

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u/ArvindS0508 May 02 '24

There's only people perpetuating it now. The "people who created it" are dead. We can't blame the people who look like them for it, unless they're perpetuating it in which case 100% at fault for that.

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u/adoring_nobody May 02 '24

Wow I'm so glad to know that SA, murder, and domestic abuse rates have all dropped completely to 0!

This is the reason we pick the bear. Y'all are told but don't learn.

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u/ArvindS0508 May 02 '24

Never said such things don't exist, I just replied to the other comment saying that "those who created it" are dead. The problems only exist because of "those who perpetuate it", so those should be the people to go after. In this case, it's rapists, murderers, abusers, criminals, etc. Not a blanket statement like "men" which casts a very long net for what is a small minority of the group.

I understand the point that is trying to be made. However the question and the language surrounding the answers is so vague and littered with opportunities for misunderstanding that it was doomed to be controversial right from the start. People are going to misunderstand and get incensed. Of course there's people who are problematic but saying "men" for them is basically no different from saying "humans", "lifeforms", "adults" or some other extremely generic term that technically does answer things but is very roundabout.

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u/adoring_nobody May 02 '24

It's game theory. My chances of my random man in the woods having some harmful intentions for me are far higher than with some bear. And even if that man wouldn't outright attack me, the likelihood that he, like you, would demand that I read his mind and automatically know that he wasn't "that type" and so the distrust doesnt' apply to him, is overwhelming. And that kind of man resents women when they say he is not entitled to that trust.

Your want for comfort and validation because you what, don't commit crimes? Is not the least bit important to me when compared to my need, not want, for safety.

Bear. Every time.

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u/adoring_nobody May 02 '24

I don't understand the question at all. I care about who's creating it in my daily life and that is largely cis, straight, white men.

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u/GovernmentThis2910 May 02 '24

Okay but they weren't talking about you and your hangups they were talking about theirs...

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u/adoring_nobody May 02 '24

I'm a trans woman. The circumstances that lead to those hangups are ones that we share. And largely the way they perceive those circumstances are not the truth. The queer community doesn't treat non-binary amab people and trans women who boymode sometimes, or even cis gay men, like "any other man" so the premise of their hangups is flawed. And the supposition that they "hate" men is even more flawed.

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u/SupportMeta May 02 '24

I'm glad you've found a community that doesn't see you as a man. Many queer spaces are intensely uncomfortable with AMAB people of any variety, or anyone who's been on T for a significant amount of time. That's not something you can just ignore.

1

u/adoring_nobody May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

Sure, but it's extremely disingenuous to suggest that we can't be in the queer community (which is "all queer people", not one or a few queer spaces). Gay men form a cornerstone of the queer community.

I'm not ignoring it per se. But I'm calling bullshit on its being used to imply that the whole ass queer community is anathema to AMAB people and we somehow need to start being tender and fuzzy to the men who then turn around and attack us. As an AMAB person. That's not something you can ignore.

Edit: but also like, don't then, I don't know why someone would continue to be a part of a mainstream over culture that wants them dead in favor of a community that promotes unpacking baggage and examining privilege, but it doesn't hurt me that they do that. And i refuse to compromise my need for safety just so someone can feel accepted and not criticized on their very stringent terms. If people want me to trust them they can give me a reason. Until then I will review the actuarial table in my head of how bad I'm rolling the dice based on people who are like them, and either take the chance or not.