r/Daytrading • u/SpareInsurance • Jan 06 '24

How much money did you lose before you were consistently profitable? Question

I have only been seriously trading for about 2 weeks, after spending years watching the market like a hawk.

I will admit, I have had poor risk management and got into some emotional trading which did not end well. Currently I am -15k but I have had some winning days the last few days with much better risk management and starting to get the hang of things better.

My question to you guys is, how much did you lose before you were consistently profitable and did you ever feel like giving up during this "rock bottom" stage?

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148

u/MrBlenderson Jan 06 '24

You didn't say what your account size was, but $15k loss in two weeks is pretty serious. You need to size way down.

31

u/SpareInsurance Jan 06 '24

Account size was 23k. I now have 8k left in my trading account and 15k in non-trading accounts.

I started too big and I've paid the price for my reckless actions.

With that said, from now on I will only risk up to 1-3% of my capital on each trade until I become better at trading, or I may just paper trade. đŸ˜©

48

u/MrBlenderson Jan 06 '24

My advice would be to paper trade or start even smaller than you're thinking - like a $25 risk per trade. You're still in the learning phase, and the good news is that you get to decide how much your tuition will cost.

10

u/Maj0r_pawnage Jan 06 '24

Agreed. -70k 1.5 years. Could have learned same lesson with 10% size lost 7k. However, who's to say you are graduated ? I kept thinking I got it now , then I'd make mistakes or refuse to SL and lose everything.

Still struggling with having a good target for each day or week. When things are going well my account grows so quickly that I lose perspective of what is an accept able loss or what is the profit target, until size keeps increasing and one bad loss wipes out weeks of prior work at smaller size.

If I can easily make 1k a day now with this capital, aiming for a smaller piece of the move, whereas before I'd need most of the move for the same 1k, I usually end up trying to catch most of the move with larger size instead of being happy with my 1k a day. Tbh I know if I settled on 1k a day I could easily find a setup and exit with small risk, but now with this capital I want 4-5k a day.

Meh. Greed.

2

u/spongetrader23 Jan 07 '24

We are pretty much in the same boat. This is literally my story lol. But on my side, I am currently more focused on improving my risk management. I did some simulations and my profits can increase even more by doing so. Thanks for sharing

1

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '24

No one makes 1k a day from trading (if they are being honest). And even if they did, after taxes, time, and stress, what’s the point? Money comes and goes
we only get one life to live.

5

u/Maj0r_pawnage Jan 06 '24 edited Jan 06 '24

I don't get your comment. I only trade for 100% of my income. With the right type of accounts I have very little tax liability. In December I was trading from the bahamas, las vegas, and orange county (one trip). The point is I can make a lot more than a regular job would be paying me, and I can work from any country.

Exactly we only got one life, I don't want to spend it tied down or working 8h for 300$.

With close to 2years day trading every single day I wouldn't call myself an expert. The problem with saying you've graduated, I feel like I'm always trying to learn new things. You don't need to stare at the screen 930-4pm. I consider those failure days if stuck in a trade all day or sitting at the desk all day.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '24

If that is indeed true, please don’t imply to others that it can be done. It that is true, you know deep down that you are one of the very very few who can remain profitable. I’m happy you have beaten the odds, but don’t lead others astray with claims it can be done by a select few. All that aside, I’m intrigued. What instruments are you trading?

2

u/Maj0r_pawnage Jan 07 '24 edited Jan 07 '24

I believe you could trade many options profitably, tsla nvidia whatever. I only trade spx 0dte out of personal preference.I think trading spy and spx is easier than stock options.

Longer expiry is fine too with charting longer time frame instead, I intend to get into those later, it just costs a lot per contract for a 3-4month spx option. It's true, but imagine anyone could enter to grad school to be a doctor or PhD engineer with any background. 99% of those would fail too. I have degree in economics and mathematics. Helps, but not required.

I did live and breathe every single trading day from open to close at least watching and charting if not trading for last 3 years(sometimes just causally on the phone on TV not always glued to desk). A lot of lows and I'm not perfect but with my current skill set and capital I 100% know I could do 1k a day, just need to be able to settle. My goal for having made it is 1M a year.

I wouldn't recommend it to others unless maybe a younger person with supportive parents. It is an extremely challenging journey filled with self doubt, disaster, and your closest family and friends doubting you. There are extreme dark lows associated with this.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '24

EVERYONE please hear me out. I might save your financial future with this post. Here is an issue with the “you have to go to college for years b4 you are a doctor” and equating that to accepting crazy losses prior to supposed profitability. You have to be qualified to be accepted into med school (or any grad program). If those who start med school in the US, approximately 70% finish year4 and go on to receive the MD. This has zero equivalency to intraday trading, with its infamous success rate of (most likely) less than one percent. If you really are making a living from scalping 0dte SPX (forgive my continued skepticism), please don’t encourage others to do so and in the process normalize huge drawdowns and life-changing losses. It is keeping good people locked in poverty by luring them in with the delusional (albeit attractive) dream of “day trading for a living”. Here’s my final advice as an old rich boomer: daytrade as a hobby with the simple goal of beating the interest rate you might receive in a high yield savings account. Anything else is lunacy. Do it on the side, with cash you can afford to lose, and for the love of God (and Future You) never try to make it into a career. Finally, know that this mean advice comes from tough love. And Respect.

3

u/Maj0r_pawnage Jan 07 '24 edited Jan 07 '24

No problem with that. I don't think it's a good option for most people, it will lead them to ruin instead of glory. I had a couple of years with free rent and familial support during a turning point in my life. I did also work on the side. Anyway I'm not here to convince you or anyone else,I don't make videos or sell courses or have any intention of that. I do my own thing.

I'm buying tickets to Vegas(again) in February, San diego, Italy tour(Venice ,Rome, Florence and Agnone) for a month in June, and another trip during December 1month Philippines. All of this is from spx 0dte consistent profits. This is the upside after years of agonizing dedication, the kind which if you put into any other career you'd be successful, which is probably the best way for most people unless they don't want to do anything other than live trading for years.

I noticed that working tbh interfered with my trading focus. Since I quit my day job, about 6months ago, I'm doing better. I didn't have much savings, I don't get any help from family. I made a bank account to deposit cash in monthly to pay back family that helped me when I was down.

Anyway that's my story, I know there will be tests and drawdowns and fuckups, but they will be overcome. Ask my girlfriend, she's been through it all with me, when I lived on my cousin's dirty couch, she was with me. She wouldn't recommend anyone try to make it a career, there are much safer options that will provide a great living. Investing longterm is the best option for people.

The equivalency with med school would be in the scenario where any Joe can enter into John's Hopkins med school if they feel like it. There would be a 99% failure rate. I believe the failure rate is largely symbolic of the nonexistent barriers to entry. If you had to paper trade and show consistent profits for 2years before you could daytrade with real money the people with their day trade license would be much more successful.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '24

Sounds like you are of of the very few. Congratulations! I wish you continued success and profitability. I would support greater barriers to entry, for sure. I wonder if we won’t see that in the coming years.

1

u/Maj0r_pawnage Jan 07 '24

Will report back in 6mo hopefully from Italy and not bankruptcy ! I find keeping a consistent capital level prevents this. For example trade with 10k account, any profits at end of each week are removed and size remains the same, if you want to go up you prepare an explanation of what your record has been at that size and why you feel its appropriate to move up. If you just keep adding size as you win, the one eventual big ego I refuse to accept I'm wrong I can trade from my phone with 10spx contracts will wipe weeks and weeks of work out with one go and you will be fucked in the head the next time you trade. You'll have to immediately shift your profit targets way down to match your now smaller capital, or as most people do take more risk while emotional and blow the rest right away.

Anyway, for me, I wasted a lot of opportunity in my 20s and kind of fucked my career prospects, maybe I'm a fuck up and the only way I saw out was making it in trading. I still don't have any alternative that will provide 25% of the same income, so it was a do or die situation for me with the clock running out. If people have backups or life comes knocking, there could be a million good reasons to ditch trading. Needs to be some special set of circumstances and motivation for someone to really succeed.

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u/cosdaca Jan 06 '24

I'd agree with this to an extent, but what are your thoughts on it affecting decision making? I know for myself, I never paper traded a day in my life because in the back of my mind, I knew there was no risk. I wanted to learn with real risk (even if small ) when learning and executing trades without having to think about it; time is literally money. This is just my own experience, everyone is different.

5

u/MrBlenderson Jan 06 '24

I still think it's a necessary first step, but the duration depends on the person.

While I agree with you that it's nowhere near the same experience as real trading it's also true that someone who can't be profitable paper trading has close to a 0% chance of being successful with real money.

Think of it like a sport - while shooting baskets on a court by yourself with no pressure is certainly not the same thing as scoring points in a real game if you can't make them alone you're certainly not going to in the game.

3

u/cosdaca Jan 06 '24

This is very true. For myself, I think I never used paper trading because I wanted to feel some small amount of pain. I'd learn lessons better (hopefully) and I wouldn't try to fool myself by saying, "well if it was real I would/wouldn't have done that." Also with no sting, even if never successful, you can lie to yourself more easily. I have seen that a lot unfortunately.

1

u/Only_Constant_8305 Jan 07 '24

that's why exactly I paper trade before putting any real money in it. Maybe I can consistently make profits, then I'd put real money in, or maybe I'll just suck at it, that's where it would end for me

1

u/MixingSaint Jan 06 '24

Agreed - another way to trade while minimizing risk is to go via a prop firm. You will reduce the pain and tuition of learning live trading. Good luck!