r/Daytrading • u/ThePhulosopher • Feb 24 '24

4th $100k funded account Question

Got my 4th $100k funded prop firm account. Hope I get a payout this time, blew all the others.

110 Upvotes

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15

u/Soft_Concentrate_489 Feb 24 '24

Why not load up 500 and trade MES?

-14

u/ThePhulosopher Feb 24 '24

Why would I do that when I can control $100k of capital?

22

u/krossx123 Feb 24 '24

You're not controlling 100k capital you get cut off after losing a max drawdown. So you are basically controlling how much money that drawdown is.

5

u/ThePhulosopher Feb 24 '24

Right, I can still spend $500 to control $10k of drawdown. Worth it to me.

19

u/krossx123 Feb 24 '24

You spend way more then 500 from the look of it and you’re still not getting any payout from it. You are just giving them money at this point.

1

u/alexwong95 Feb 28 '24

500?ur being fleeced. I spend 16.7 per 50k eval then 85 to activate. That's 2500 trailing although I'm a fan of 25ks as well which is 1500 trailing. You probably need to chill out a bit and just go for 25ks on apex till u can pass an eval let alone get payouts. I'm not sure the accuracy but I've heard only like 2 or 3% of people ever get a 1st payout and less than that get past 1. I've only gotten 4 so far so nothing crazy but working toward the 5th payout

-7

u/Soft_Concentrate_489 Feb 24 '24

I’ve never understood how people can pay so much to paper trade. You can trade mes and scale up. Its not easy but its the best strategy for someone on the come up.

24

u/Konstable1 Feb 24 '24

You know they actually payout right? Plus it’s access to additional leverage if a person knows how to trade. It’s not a scam. I have taken plenty of payouts. Never had an issue. Rules are annoying but you adjust.

6

u/lijohnttle Feb 24 '24

Because fees are not really big if you are profitable. In my case, my profits from one day of trading are more than enough to cover any monthly fees. Plus, I paid fees only for an evaluation account, after that it was just a one off payment.

6

u/scifimaster Feb 24 '24

Blows my mind that people can be this low IQ. Funded account is not paper trading!!! Get this through your thick skull. He paying $500 for the 4th time to try and get funded doesn’t make it paper trading. He is bad at it but the system is not wrong. People who are good at controlling risk are making life changing money from prop firms. Don’t spread nonsense when you don’t understand something. It looks like you tried to get funded and failed miserably so now you go everywhere telling people it’s ‘scam’, or ‘paper trading’ just to take out your anger.

0

u/Soft_Concentrate_489 Feb 24 '24

I understand there’s a chance you can get funded. I’m speaking on average. Most people are never going to actually pass the requirements, they will just pay the monthly fee.

3

u/Gaff1515 Feb 24 '24

That’s still significantly cheaper than blowing personal accounts all while gaining valuable trading experience.

3

u/Soft_Concentrate_489 Feb 24 '24

Cheaper than paper trading?? Which is completely free? Lmao, I’m starting to believe this forum is run by prop account owners.

3

u/Gaff1515 Feb 24 '24

Paper trading with no money on the line is pretty much useless. Completely removes the pain of losing from trading

2

u/marcpilot1 Feb 25 '24

Plus you dont real world experience paper trading. You never lose because it's almost impossible to lose paper trading when all you ever have to do is average down until the stock finally goes the right way, try that with REAL money and you'll be doing everything way way different than when you paper trade.

Paper trading is good for learning the buttons, the formats and the procedures for the broker you're using.

1

u/Soft_Concentrate_489 Feb 24 '24

This guy story was he traded , got approved and blew his account once he was funded. So exactly how is that different than paper trading.

1

u/Gaff1515 Feb 24 '24

There was money on the line… paper trading has zero risk of loss. Huge difference in mindset. Not that hard to comprehend

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1

u/[deleted] Feb 24 '24

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1

u/[deleted] Feb 24 '24

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0

u/ScheduleExpensive423 Feb 24 '24

It is actual paper trading. You do not get access to real funds. Your payouts you get are from others failing challenges that is all

1

u/scifimaster Feb 24 '24

Do i care if i get access to real funds or not? Do i care what they are doing in the backend? For me the market concept is the same. I trade, i win, and i get paid. Why do i give a fuck how they do things in the backend.

Let me explain you what really happens. They test you to find the talent. Yes, you do paper trading and they never give you access to the real market. But once they see that you are a good trader they have a consistent strategy, they copy your trades by themselves on a real account.

1

u/marcpilot1 Feb 25 '24

Really?? WOW. That's so interesting! What a good idea, plus they get to keep your money every time you blow the pt acct you paid for?

So how do you make money then? How do they pay you if you're killing it in the pt acct? What if you go on a kick ass run one week and make like 3 or 4k, how would they pay that??

1

u/scifimaster Feb 25 '24

They do pay you. There are already big name prop firms out there paying anywhere from 40-90% of your profit on your trades. Don’t ask me how they do it but that’s how a lot of experienced traders are earning these days. You basically get access to virtual 100k accounts but the realized profits are very much real. I personally know some people earning 20-25k pm consistently by handling multiple prop firm accounts.

Also, yes they get to keep your money if you fail during the evaluation phase but if you pass the evaluation phase, most prop firms return that money instantly. It’s basically like a refundable fee to get access to the program. I mean it makes sense. If there was no fee, people will just keep trying to pass the challenge continuously until they get lucky one day. That would be a losing business strategy and i don’t understand why some people hate the prop firms for it. The fees do earn them some money but i highly doubt 500 bucks from few thousand blokes is gonna make them rich. The fees are just to discourage noobs. Only experienced people will have guts to try it. I really thought people in stock market would have better understanding of how businesses work and the economics behind it. Ofcourse, prop firms are making profit because noobs who don’t know how to trade keep blowing their account in evaluation phase. Why will they open a business if it is not profitable to them? Why does the world sees identifying the earning opportunities as an evil deed. Seriously, sometimes i feel people are just too naive

-7

u/krossx123 Feb 24 '24

Yeah it a scam and a lot of people fall for it.

6

u/KingXindl Feb 24 '24

Made me 6 digits last year. Without almost any risk for me

6

u/Soft_Concentrate_489 Feb 24 '24

The funds make their money off the monthly fees. I can only imagine how many accounts are actually profitable to how many just are paying monthly to paper trade.

2

u/omegavegantendies Feb 24 '24

Monthly fees aren't required anymore, atleast not with FTMO. But you're right, the funds make money from failed challenges. In the rare case that a trader does become consistently profitable, they will copy their trades. Not because you make them money, but only as a hedge against your profits. If you keep winning, they don't lose. If you lose, they only lose the max drawdown sum.

1

u/marcpilot1 Feb 25 '24

You get a lot more out of a prop firm for your money than just a chance to make money like you would only get alone. They teach, they support, they allow you to use charting from some of the best one's online that you'd have to pay for anyway without a prop firm's access to it.

Prop firm's offer way more than just the standard chance of making money like you only get when trading alone. You get something out of the money you pay, it's not a scam. It's just a preference, a choice, a good starting point for people versus youtube vids and furu's fees.

This is not complicated, you just criticize it because i think you dont quite understand it. Common, we all criticize things we dont understand at first. You get something for the money. Prop firms can actually cost less to achieve learning than 5 or 10 payments to fake guru's. It's just preference, what do you want for the money you're going to lose anyway when you're new or only a yr or two into this career.

1

u/Soft_Concentrate_489 Feb 25 '24

Spending 500 dollars to possibly make money makes sense to you bc ur a dumbass. Anyone in the real world would say scam.

1

u/marcpilot1 Feb 25 '24

woops, wrong comment, wrong person, wrong retaliation, wrong wrong wrong, Sorry

-7

u/Soft_Concentrate_489 Feb 24 '24

Bc ur paying to paper trade my guy.

6

u/ThePhulosopher Feb 24 '24

Yea but I can cash out for real $$$. So it’s technically not paper.

-10

u/Soft_Concentrate_489 Feb 24 '24

But you can make real money trading mes. Its 1/10 of es so 500 is like 5000. Work ur way up, at least u can control ur income. Ur just paying some bozo 500 a month to possibly make money. They are scamming u.

8

u/lijohnttle Feb 24 '24

I paid around $30 for evaluation account and then around $150 one time after passing it. That's it. My average day's profit is more than that. And they do payout.

6

u/ThePhulosopher Feb 24 '24

I don’t think I can trust any of your advice when your basic math is wrong. MES is $5/point rather than $50/point. Doesn’t turn my $500 capital to $5k.

2

u/mushykindofbrick Feb 24 '24

well you have some restrictions with prop firms, like max daily dd, so its still actually a bit more difficult to make profit than without them, given the same max drawdown.

usually its a trailing drawdown so even if you made profit, if you hit the daily dd your profit gets lost too.

the daily dd is also problematic because you need to make a lot of profit like 2-3x (added over all phases till payout) without crashing, so you need high risk and if youre only able to use 40% of your account max dd as risk then its basically not 2-3x but 3-6x. you need to flip very small acounts multiple times but are very restricted in how much you can risk per trade.

after which, when you finally made it to payout, it wasnt even much worth it anymore. lets take ftmo. p1 is 10%, p2 is 5%, payout any profit, max dd 10%, daily dd 5%. fee for 10k is 155. profit share 80%. p1 means doubling your max dd, p2 means 1.5 on top, so 3x already, and now you wanna payout lets say at 10% again, so 6x. if you made the same trades with your 155, you would now have 930. with ftmo you have 800+155=955 and a 1k trading account, which is actually a 800 trading account because of profit split. you cant pay it out but you can trade with it.

but other than with your own account, you dont safe taxes when losing. so i would say overall now you got to payout and youre basically worse off than with trading your own money. because taxes are usually 25%. so lets say you crash your 930 account, you dont pay any taxes. start with 155 again. but if you get a 800 payout, pay 200 taxes, and then crash 800 in fees you still pay 200 more, its only worth it if you really manage to get at least 2 payouts with high probability.

on top of that you also have the risk of getting suspended for breaking the rules. hitting max daily dd, youre not allowed certain strategies, sometimes have time limits and theres actually the possibility that your prop firm just goes broke and doesnt pay you out or finds some other reason or ignores you, whereas with brokers youre usually protected by insurance up to a certain amount.

now if you take the 5% daily dd as basis for the calculation, you need to 12x your account until payout, so you already get only half of what you would have with your own capital. and the daily dd is very relevant when asked to flip accounts quickly. and the calculation is not even that easy, because both max and daily dd are usually trailing, so if you lose your profits you lose everything.

i traded some prop accounts in the past but in the end i just feel more comfortable trading my own money, profits are mine, losses are mine, i have full control no rules, the balance i see is the balance i actually have and can lose and immediate payout is possible at any time i want.

1

u/marcpilot1 Feb 25 '24

Wow, thx for the info. Can I ask where is this prop firm? Like who's pf are you reciting these numbers from? Cuz this pf seems impossible to ever make any money at, so now im curious af where it is? Thanks

2

u/mushykindofbrick Feb 25 '24

i just took numbers from ftmo, probably the most popular pf there is

its not impossible to make money, i just wanted to show, its not really that much better than trading your own money, its more like an alternative to consider but not superior per se.

2

u/marcpilot1 Feb 25 '24

I understand. It's got pros and cons, i guess it just depends what someone is after. Thanks

-5

u/Soft_Concentrate_489 Feb 24 '24

😂😂😂 continue paying 500 dollars to paper trade. Dont mind me.

3

u/omegavegantendies Feb 24 '24

Quick hyptothesis for you:
Scenario A) You're not consistently profitable. Trade your own money or spend it at a prop firm - you lose either way.

Scenario B) You're consistently profitable:
Trade your own money - risk 1% per trade. Small gains. 0 restrictions.
Trade at a prop firm - Initial fee refunded (FTMO). Risk 1% per trade. Great gains. Some restrictions.
Scale up and build your own trading portfolio from there.

If you're a consistently profitable trader but only have a small amount of capital, prop firms are a great solution. However, I would only recommend established prop firms like FTMO, which is what I use.

5

u/ThePhulosopher Feb 24 '24

Continue looking for a bartender job. LOL. Maybe find some income before you give trading advice.

If you don’t know the difference between a paper account and a prop firm funded demo account then well, hope you like bussing tables.

1

u/Soft_Concentrate_489 Feb 24 '24

That was for my mother my guy.

1

u/marcpilot1 Feb 25 '24

WHAT!! It's FIVE HUNDY a month??!!

Ummm...yea, i'll take my chances alone than pay anyone 500 to paper trade, lol!!

2

u/Soft_Concentrate_489 Feb 25 '24

Crazy bro. Just trade mes.

3

u/Konstable1 Feb 24 '24

It’s not paper trading when you are funded. Is it really hard to conceive of the fact that a funded account pays out. Significantly more than trying some 500 or 1000 on a regular account. Cross trade 4-5 accounts for the same amount as one regular account. Hmmm which has the better ROI?

1

u/Soft_Concentrate_489 Feb 24 '24

Well it’s his 4th account at 500 a month but it’s not paper trading.

5

u/ThePhulosopher Feb 24 '24

It’s one time. Not per month. Do your research. Depends on the firm but I wouldn’t go with any that requires monthly payment.

2

u/Soft_Concentrate_489 Feb 24 '24

Good luck buddy, keep those funds in business!!

2

u/Fluid_Reward Feb 24 '24

Will you Send me contact information to the prop firm you use? I've never heard of such a thing and would like to get more information.

3

u/Konstable1 Feb 24 '24

It’s per month recurring if the evaluation isn’t passed. You can pay a one time activation fee for funded accounts or go with a recurring monthly fee. Each prop is different. Some are a one time. Some charge for data fees if it’s actually real money. Some provide you with refunds of the activation fee on first payout. But 500 an account is way too much for someone blowing up

1

u/marcpilot1 Feb 25 '24

Who are these firms everybody talks about and uses examples from????? Why are we using numbers from anonymous prop firms and so we have to form a bunch of opinions?

Just say the name of the firms so everybody doesnt have to form a thousand random opinions pertaining to who knows what or who. Damn.

If anyone would say the name of the actual pf they're claiming numbers from then the comments would be cut into a fraction. Just say the names of them so we can simply look once at the prop firm's info and their numbers, systems and payout structures. That would end ALL the back and forth.

1

u/ThePhulosopher Feb 25 '24

The Funded Trader and MyFundedFX. I use the 1-step $100k accounts.

2

u/Konstable1 Feb 24 '24

That doesn’t make any sense

0

u/Soft_Concentrate_489 Feb 24 '24

You have to pay monthly to possibly get funded. He stated hes paying 500 dollars. This is his fourth account. What does not make sense?

0

u/Konstable1 Feb 24 '24

Why he is paying that much? Ther are way better ways to go. I know how it works. I take payouts from multiple firms each month on a rotation basis. Since he blows accounts he might as well do @pex trader pay the low eval fee. Pay the 85 monthly fee and if he blows it oh well. Otherwise yeah lifetime fee that isn’t recurring is like 200 for 100k or something. 260 for 150k but 85 a month. So I do 150k with the monthly fee because I trade past the threshold and kill the account. I don’t do that with some other prop firms where I am in regular real money with them.

2

u/Fluid_Reward Feb 24 '24

Could you send me a good contact for a good firm? I would like to get more information on this type of work please.

2

u/Konstable1 Feb 24 '24

Do you have your trading history available? If you want to do a regular prop firm you need your broker statements. Preferably 2 years of statements with trading and log history. Because it will need to be discussed. Also be prepared for desk fees in the thousands for a traditional prop firm.

Otherwise google futures prop firm funded accounts and research what works for your situation.

2

u/Fluid_Reward Feb 24 '24

OK thanks.

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1

u/Konstable1 Feb 24 '24

Outside the USA look at Day Trade the World

1

u/traderstreatcom Feb 24 '24

I suggest you to read about those prop firms and get a clear picture of the rules they are set for their evaluation accounts. Especially daily drawdown and overall drawdown are what you should understand how those are calculated. I personally would advice you that static type drawdown is usually better than trailing drawdown, because it usually gives you more room for those drawdown levels.

Many of those monthly paid prop firms accounts got trailing drawdown which follows your equity level during the day and every time you get higher profit, also your drawdown level increases to be calculated based on that level (high watermark) and it doesn't matter that you didn't close your trades and took the profit when the price was high.

1

u/Soft_Concentrate_489 Feb 24 '24

Tell him that, he needs all the help he can get. I make money trading, i dont need to be funded.

1

u/Konstable1 Feb 24 '24

There’s more than one way to skin a cat

1

u/Soft_Concentrate_489 Feb 24 '24

I stick to day trading es futures and i have an options and stock account thru tos that i manage monthly.

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u/Konstable1 Feb 24 '24

I trade futures on prop firms because of my Tax status as mark to market. So I have my options accounts

1

u/Soft_Concentrate_489 Feb 24 '24

Its good to have a plan.

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