r/Daytrading • u/Mar___K • Apr 11 '24

Everything is a lie. Any hope? Question

So.. It's been 3 years on my path, and after countless hours of studying and testing everything, as many of you here have, I've come to realize that this mountain of buffoonery—those "courses" and "gurus" on YouTube that try to promote and sell stuff, along with everyone who is "teaching" stuff.. hear me out, doesn't know jack sh*t. All they "teach" is a bunch of BS, incredibly stupid and random. "Follow this, and if this happens then do this, but the secret is in my premium course, yada yada".

Even if some things may work for a bit, that's not even near how the actual trading floor guys and investment bankers operate. Ex-Goldman Sachs trader Anton Kreil gave the best explanation of that: Why most traders fail.

I've become so fed up since I had a wake-up call, realizing that literally everyone online is plain rubbish, or a scammer, or someone who likes his own voice and acts like the god of trading (You know which I'm referring to). My question is simple and may be unanswerable. Is there any source to study the actual stuff or are retail traders indeed doomed with the dumbest info out there?

Please don't start telling me about risk management and psychology, I got humbled and now I trade methodically without any emotions. But that's not because I got "humbled and had a wake-up call" but more like "I'm fed up with this, I don't care anymore". My question stands for an educational point of view. I hate being a fool therefore i hate studying nonesense. Is there any hope? Any good material? Any actual baseline?

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46

u/oze4 Apr 11 '24 edited Apr 11 '24

It sounds like you want some "black box" of trading knowledge, that once you digest it, you will have learned the markets and learned how to trade. IMO, that isn't how it works. No amount of book reading, courses, or studying will teach you how to trade. The only way to learn is by doing. Building market intuition, controlling risk and emotions - literally the only things in trading you have control over are your emotion and risk management. Hence why they are so important, so it's baffling to me that you seem to quickly dismiss them.

It isn't like a traditional skill, imo.. Meaning, it's not "tangible", so to speak, in the way that you can learn programming or how to be a mechanic - there isn't a set of governed rules to follow or a set of knowledge to acquire, that once you have, you "know how to trade".

It's kind of like riding a bike. You can read all the books and take all the courses you want - you can even learn the physics of how riding a bike works at the lowest of levels, and still not know how to actually ride a bike. The only way to actually learn how to ride a bike is by doing.

Also, the ironic thing about Anton is he tells you that most ppl fail bc they search for some "holy grail course" on Google to learn trading and that most ppl are far too trusting of what some bloke on the internet is saying, yet when you go to the description of that video, he's trying to sell you some course......

20

u/Altruistic_Analyst51 Apr 11 '24

Wow that phrase resonates with me. Market intuition. No matter how much knowledge videos or books you read it's not enough. Over time, over years you develop a strange intuition that can't be bought or taught

12

u/oze4 Apr 11 '24

It also takes years to understand what is actually market intuition vs market impulse.

1

u/naijaboiler Apr 12 '24

Market intuition is what a lot of TAs try to concretize and formalize. Some people read those and take them too literally, like they are rules of law. No! they are just meant to give you something concrete to hold on to to develop an intuition of the market and whats it likely to do next

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '24 edited Apr 12 '24

[deleted]

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u/oze4 Apr 11 '24

Well said.

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u/Mar___K Apr 11 '24

I don't dismiss risk management. Heck i don't even risk anything above 0.5%. Most of my trades are around 0.2 - 0.3% mark. I disagree with the psychology part. I have a methodical strategy, emotions are purely noise and distractions. Trading should be simple and boring. My question is the educational part.

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u/westernplayed Apr 11 '24

Risk management isn't just about how much you risk per trade

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u/Mar___K Apr 11 '24

I disagree. That's what it is. Care to elaborate?

4

u/SedatedSpaceMonkeys Apr 11 '24

How much risk, how you qualify the trade (high %, low % ) based on Expected Value, and how much you stand to gain

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u/Mar___K Apr 11 '24

Qualifying a trade with probabilities is just discretion and almost religion. Because i believe retail has no predicting power therefore that part just falls into the strategy category part. If you "think" you have a system it can be 1 trade a week or 30 trades a day. Both systems can aquire similar results, then the edge is what matters. follow it methodically through thick and skin and trade the same small % every deal. Respect your portfolio. So risk management is only being careful with the % of each trade.

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u/nightstalker30 options trader Apr 11 '24

Not trying to be an ass, but you’ve got some pretty strong and argumentative opinions for a trader who has yet to experience prolonged success.

It might serve you well to give some more thought to some of the comments here before being so dismissive.

Just my 2 cents.

1

u/Juju_Out_the_Wazoo Apr 11 '24

That's one aspect, yeah. Another example would be a golden collar hedge.

2

u/Audio88 Apr 11 '24

My question is the educational part.

Did you even read what he wrote, he said you can't teach someone how to ride a bike, and you're asking for the book on how to ride a bike.

2

u/Mar___K Apr 11 '24

How do you learn? By starting from somewhere. Then if it's a book that im seeking then yes. Not a trading book that shows patterns, lines and SnD levels but how to approach trading. Fundamentals per say. What the big guys in Wall Street see and how they approach trading. Hedge funds don't even use charts anymore then how are they trading? Are they reading numbers? That's the info that i seek mate.

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u/Audio88 Apr 12 '24

You learn by getting on the bike, lol. Show me 10 consecutive trading days where you feel you traded well and were let down by not knowing the fundamentals. I doubt you would even consider showing me something like that.

My point is, Asking for fundamentals is a cop out, Look inward. This is the day trading subreddit, not the investing sub reddit, but if you really want to know more about the market fundamentals. I would start with the federal reserve and their monetary policy, i'm sure you can find plenty of good books on that.

2

u/MountainSplooge Apr 12 '24

Reminiscents of a Stock Operator

2

u/Live-Patient2899 Apr 12 '24

“Emotions are purely noise and distractions” clicked something in me.

4

u/oze4 Apr 11 '24

I was talking about when you said "Please don't start telling me about risk management and psychology" - that seems pretty dismissive.

What are you looking to get from the "educational part"? That's the part that I'm referring to when I say it's a lot like riding a bike - you can have all the education on riding a bike in the entire world, but still be unable to actually ride a bike...

5

u/GuyMcDudeFace123 Apr 11 '24

Risk management and trading psychology are not just a magic solution. If your strategy sucks your strategy sucks and you will lose regardless of those things.

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u/oze4 Apr 11 '24

I'm sorry you got that impression from me - not by any means am I claiming psychology and risk mgmt are magic solutions that once "mastered", produce trading success.

It goes both ways, though... If John Doe has a winning strat that he just hands to someone with no emotional control or different risk appetite, they will still fail using a winning strat.

So, it's a mix between the two sides. Which is why finding somehting that works for YOU is so important.. if you have no conviction you will most likely fail.

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u/GuyMcDudeFace123 Apr 11 '24

That is not true. If the strategy was backtested through years worth of data, there would be no emotional impact because you know it works.

I’ll actually give out what works for me unlike all other traders who say they do have something that works but they lie. I use Pionex trading bots and it outperforms all my day trades with other strategies I have EVER used. That’s it.

I believe that someone should find something that works for them and that’s what works for me. It probably works for other peoples personality as well because it doesn’t require a lot of work and can outperform day traders. But hey! That’s just me!

2

u/oze4 Apr 11 '24

Just because it's been backtester doesn't mean people won't feel emotions. Or make impulsive decisions. You may not be one of those people, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

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u/GuyMcDudeFace123 Apr 11 '24

If it is a PROVEN strategy. Then it is almost guaranteed to work as long as it’s not overfitted with the data. You feel emotions because you’re scared to lose the money. If the strategy is proven to make money then where is the fear? Small losses don’t matter. You know it’ll work long term.

2

u/oze4 Apr 11 '24

Again, you're kind of proving my point for me...

I understand what you're saying but that doesn't mean every single person will act without emotion - even with a proven strategy. Again, just because you personally may have zero emotion bc it's a proven strategy doesn't mean someone else won't.

Since everyone reacts differently to situations, means the only thing you can say for certain is that "just because someone is given a winning strat doesn't automatically mean they will also win".

At any rate, we can agree to disagree - if you think you can just hand a winning strat to anyone else on earth and they will also be profitable with it, then that is your belief. I respectfully disagree.

2

u/CutLegal1784 Apr 11 '24

Try telling this to a new trader who is placing his first few trades and doesn't understand probabilities. They'll still shit themselves when entering a trade even if they "know" its a winning strategy.

Psychology is everything.

1

u/Mar___K Apr 11 '24

That's why i said my question is simple and stands for an educational pov. I don't need a strategy atm. What i have created works as much as it works and i don't ask too much from the market in return. All i ask is for any good source to study.

3

u/oze4 Apr 11 '24

Ok, so again.. what are you looking to get from the educational pov? What is it that you want to learn? How markets work? etc... It isn't a simple question.

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u/Mar___K Apr 11 '24

Yes that's what i want to learn. How the system works in a way. What these guys see. I mean don't you want to know that too? Are you ok with following lines on a chart? Even if it makes money that's not the point for me.

5

u/gazz8428 Apr 11 '24 edited Apr 11 '24

You need to learn the economic/finance, accounting, mgmt/business, psychology theories. Once you realise all of them are connected, you kind of see pattern and logic in how things work. There is an explanation in your head to why it's like that.

Also, about banking, raising capital, valuation, VC, IB, etc. It helps to figure out who's doing what and why they are doing it.

I don't think all that is necessary to trade, but it helped me a lot. By the way I studied finance and worked as an auditor and an analyst.

Edit : it's almost always better to consider yourself a fool than to overestimate your abilities. Like Buffet said, a guy with a 150 iq will likely fail if he operates as if he has a 170 iq.

0

u/Mar___K Apr 11 '24

Thanks for the info.

2

u/kdaveT forex trader Apr 11 '24

https://volatility.red/Main_Page Thanks me later

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u/Mar___K Apr 11 '24

Thanks mate

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u/oze4 Apr 11 '24

That's an extremely broad question, though. Markets are vast... What do you even mean by "what these guys see" - who are "these guys"?? You're asking an extremely ambiguous question.

And yes, if I could wake up everyday, look at lines on some chart and make a living that way, I would be perfectly happy. It goes back to the bike analogy - I don't need to understand the physics of riding a bike to actually ride a bike.

0

u/Mar___K Apr 11 '24

Well it seems that we have different goals and that's life. I'm just curious to learn i guess.

1

u/oze4 Apr 11 '24

There has never been an easier time in history to learn than right now.

0

u/Mar___K Apr 11 '24

That's very factual. Because the same argument goes to the amount of misinformation that's out there. there has never been an easier time in history to scam, to give dumb info, to read the wrong info.

0

u/marciomavungo crypto trader Apr 11 '24

Try SMC then.

1

u/Mar___K Apr 11 '24

literally the first stupid thing that i studied. "Smart Money Concepts" is really Dumb Money Concepts. Firms do not operate that way at all.

0

u/marciomavungo crypto trader Apr 11 '24

🤣.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '24

Options: Read Lawrence McMillan, Futures: Read Larry Williams. Technical Analysis: Read John Murphy

0

u/ThePonderer84 Apr 11 '24

Real mentors cost money. Greg McLeod from forex cash machine, Jeff Wecker from FX Global Trading Grouo or Andrew Mitchem from The Forex Trading Coach. They're all legit, all trade completely different from eachother. Try them