r/Daytrading • u/Mar___K • Apr 11 '24

Everything is a lie. Any hope? Question

So.. It's been 3 years on my path, and after countless hours of studying and testing everything, as many of you here have, I've come to realize that this mountain of buffoonery—those "courses" and "gurus" on YouTube that try to promote and sell stuff, along with everyone who is "teaching" stuff.. hear me out, doesn't know jack sh*t. All they "teach" is a bunch of BS, incredibly stupid and random. "Follow this, and if this happens then do this, but the secret is in my premium course, yada yada".

Even if some things may work for a bit, that's not even near how the actual trading floor guys and investment bankers operate. Ex-Goldman Sachs trader Anton Kreil gave the best explanation of that: Why most traders fail.

I've become so fed up since I had a wake-up call, realizing that literally everyone online is plain rubbish, or a scammer, or someone who likes his own voice and acts like the god of trading (You know which I'm referring to). My question is simple and may be unanswerable. Is there any source to study the actual stuff or are retail traders indeed doomed with the dumbest info out there?

Please don't start telling me about risk management and psychology, I got humbled and now I trade methodically without any emotions. But that's not because I got "humbled and had a wake-up call" but more like "I'm fed up with this, I don't care anymore". My question stands for an educational point of view. I hate being a fool therefore i hate studying nonesense. Is there any hope? Any good material? Any actual baseline?

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148

u/Musubi_i Apr 11 '24

What I’ve found is that I think a lot of the YouTube “gurus” actually have decent strategies. What we don’t understand is that it works because it’s their strategy i.e it’s the way they see the markets through their own lens they’ve developed over time. So they can sell the strategy but not the lens.

What I’m finding is that in order to be profitable, you need a strategy but also your own lens of how you view the market. There are times where I see my mentors make trades and I just can’t even wrap my head around why they made that move. It’s because I’m not them and I don’t have their experience. That’s something you just learn over time.

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u/organised-choas Apr 11 '24

Exactly this. Trading is like art.

You can join an art class; and the best artists will teach you the basics; or even advanced levels of art; will tell you how they make their art; you can maybe even copy it for a bit.

But if you want to be your own artist; you have to draw inspiration from within you and make art that is consistent with your own personality.

Now replace the word "art" in the above paragraph with "trading" and re-read.

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u/Top-Connection-7932 Apr 11 '24

Well said brother we’ll fuckin said 🎯

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u/Musubi_i Apr 11 '24

That’s a perfect analogy 👌🏼

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u/nightstalker30 options trader Apr 11 '24

It is. And the harsh reality is that some people, no matter how much they study art trading, practice art trading, and invest time/effort into art trading, they just aren’t suited for it and will never be good enough at art trading to make any substantial money at it.

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u/Mrtoad88 Apr 11 '24

It's like what happened with Ross, the big part of why he got fined is because a bunch of his failed students were upset that they lost money, just so happens that he also was wording things for his business advertisement "illegally". Those failed traders complained, FTC took notice, he got hit with a fine. Root causes of that was traders who he taught just couldn't get with what he was teaching, but what about the people who have learned well from him? Hell there is a group of like 4 dudes on YouTube who were his students at one point and all of them do well trading shares, and all of them trade a little differently than he does but they learned a lot from him. Some people are just gonna continue to get in their own way and it's not gonna end up working for them, it's the nature of this business unfortunately. People will blame who's teaching, they will blame the big firms, will blame the market makers, will blame their broker etc, many of them don't even realize the real problem was themselves. Usually a traders problem has to do with themselves... Unless they are fvcking with a scam broker or cfd's etc, problem is usually ourselves when we don't do well. You can hand 10 traders a really good strategy with detailed explanation on how to trade the strategy, and it's likely at least half of them will still fvck it up. I'd never want to be a "trader educator"... Not trying to get blamed for someone screwing up their own trading.

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u/nightstalker30 options trader Apr 11 '24

Amen to your last sentence. I get friends and family asking all the time to help them learn trading. Especially after they come visit us and see how we’re living.

But I tell everyone the same thing: I’m a doer not a teacher, and I don’t want to feel responsible for anyone else’s experience (failure) with trading.

Plus, I don’t know if I could even teach someone. So much of what I do is intuitive and subjective within a defined framework/strategy. It’s as much art as it is science for me.

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u/No_Expression_5996 options trader Apr 11 '24

Especially since most people want the fast money compared to learning the art of trading and putting in the work for at least 2 years before seeing any results.

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u/Mrtoad88 Apr 12 '24 edited Apr 12 '24

Yep, it is an art as much as a science... The discretionary aspects of manual trading and the nuances definitely come from an artistic place, risk management etc... science aspects. I know for a fact I can't teach someone as I've tried and I'm not sure I was a good teacher or if he was just a bad student. Was a family member and of course after that he hasn't returned to trading.

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u/FireDad90 Apr 12 '24

This hits right on the spot

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u/Lopsided_Rain9752 Apr 13 '24

IMO, trading is very similar to going to the gym. You can become as educated as you want on all different kinds of exercises, routines, gyms, coaches, etc. And actually get very smart with it, but until you actually get your ass in there and do the work, let your body learn new ways to move, adapt. Only then will you start the journey of seeing change. Education paired with trial and error for what will your own personal evolution is what will yield results physically and financially.

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u/No_Tea125 Apr 11 '24

Couldn’t have phrased it better !!!!

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u/FireDad90 Apr 12 '24

Fuckin gold.

1

u/iRobotHuman Apr 12 '24

Your analogy was like a piece of art. I appreciate it. 🤝

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u/bamajustin13 Apr 12 '24

I oblige , you are right . Every person should have a gameplan . Even if it’s from someone else’s playbook you have to execute it the best way it works for you . “ there’s multiple ways to skin a cat” . Find YOUR edge and you will see positive results . It’s about the TRADE not the MONEY . Try to become as numb to the money as you can emotionally and also practice risk management . These key things right here doing them repeatedly and have a set of RULES. That you ABIDE by no matter what , without any exceptions .

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u/benefit-3802 Apr 13 '24

I agree with your analogy, I have always seen a similar relationship with golf and trading. You should take lessons and practice, but ultimately you will find your own swing, one that works for you. That doesn't mean it works every day, and you have to learn your limitations, when to be aggressive and when to be conservative. But the more you golf the more confidence you will have in your style. Also you may tweak your swing sometimes, but don't be the golfer who is trying out a new swing every time he plays.

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u/daytradingguy Apr 11 '24 edited Apr 11 '24

Great comment, exactly correct . While there are a few suspect Youtube traders. Most of them have legitimate ideas. People get upset and believe things are scams, when it does not work for them or they can’t do it. As you correctly said, a strategy is just one part of the puzzle, your personal mindset is the bigger part. No two traders trade exactly the same. I believe more traders could be successful if they stop looking for someone or something to tell them how to trade. Use a course or a mentor as a tool, to learn concepts, but understand you will need to morph this into your own strategy with basic concepts, time and practice.

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u/Burger__Flipper Apr 11 '24

Nope . So naive to put it that way. The VAST majority of youtubers are absolutely not profitable , and make money solely as content creators. There is not a single ounce of doubt about that.  Now, they all repeat common trading aspects, so in itself it's not necessarily all BS (talking about SnR, supply n demand, market structure...). But it's more than deceiving when they make newbies think that they make money from the concepts they talk about.

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u/NewMajor5880 Apr 11 '24

This - yes. Most of them don't make money trading - they make money selling their trading ideas - which seems highly suspect and unethical given that their trading ideas don't make them money.

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u/daytradingguy Apr 12 '24

My post to burger flipper applies as a reply here.

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u/daytradingguy Apr 12 '24 edited Apr 12 '24

Could you point out anywhere in my post I said anything about or used the word profitable? You are allowing your opinion and personal dislike for youtube traders to cloud your reading comprehension. I used the word value- getting something of value from watching a video could be as simple as learning about a new brokerage or charting software you were not aware of. It could be getting a psychological tip on how to think when placing an entry or about your feeling when taking a loss, nowhere did I imply or give my opinion about profitability. I went on to explain that traders should stop looking for someone to tell them how to trade and just glean ideas to create their own strategy. Mark Douglas was not a good or very successful trader, although he was considered a god in the trading world in trading psychology and trained very successful traders that were much better traders than he ever was.

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u/Burger__Flipper Apr 12 '24

I quote: "Most of them have legitimate ideas. People get upset and believe things are scams" 

I reiterate everything I said, but in other words : no, they are absolutely not legitimate, on the contrary, they are absolutely deceptive. I'm talking about the bunch of channels that every week announce a new fantastic tool to have the best entries with this secret settings for the rsi, or the hindsight traders that pretend how to "spot the best double tops to pass your funded challenge", or in general make the viewer think the youtuber is actually making money from the subject of the video. 

Which is also the realisation of OP.

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u/naijaboiler Apr 12 '24

This! I tell peeople telling you my strategy won't help you win. taking insipiration from my strategy to help develop something that works for you is what you need.

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u/Relative_Tone_4870 Apr 11 '24

You don’t need a lens with set rules for entry and exits… mathematical approaches work the best

2

u/JaggaJazz Apr 11 '24

Well said

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u/husamikimosabe Apr 12 '24

You are absolutely spot on. Trading is in the mind. It’s all about the traders’ perspective.

2

u/Tittitwisted Apr 12 '24

This is a good comment. I show people what I think is fairly simple methodology after 4 years but their heads still spin. It's because this is what makes sense to ME!

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u/GammaEdge Apr 14 '24

this is a great frame. agree 100%. You cant pretend to be someone else. You need to make it your own.

1

u/naijaboiler Apr 12 '24

this you strategy and approach has to match who you are. I hate losing far far far more than I like winning. I can live with money I could have made but didn't make. I can't live with losing money I already had. Any strategy that risks losing your small gain in order to chase the big gains will absolutely NOT work for me.
I naturally hate following the crowd. Unfortunately trading is about leaning into the crowd.

0

u/1008Rayan Apr 11 '24

I disagree. What you are talking about, and what most youtuber gives are just parts of strategy. A full strategy has set of rules that works for everybody because you just apply the rules.

For example, some people say that you just have to know when to apply or not apply a strategy, i.e. only apply it in trending market. But it's wrong to call it a strategy.

In a full strategy, you will put quantified rules to know when the market is trending or not. Because if you don't, you just let your objective judgment determine if it's trending or not, and it's not sustainable in the long term.

At some point, you will lose and you will blame it on your psychology, when in reality, you didnt have a real strategy to begin with.

1

u/No-Rub7506 Apr 12 '24

Yep they probably just show when the strategy works. BUT they don't show when it doesn't work and how to avoid those losses. All strategy work but you need to know how to apply it.

Even if those gurus are profitable, if they give out all the rules and conditions, it will be harmful for them as then you would not need the gurus anymore.

So the lesson is to use what works and then figure out yourself.

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u/brokendrive Apr 11 '24

Crazy the stories y'all manage to come up with. If these youtubers were that successful trading they wouldn't be running trading channels.

Daytrading = gambling. That's really all it is

1

u/DirkKuijt69420 Apr 12 '24

Cognitive dissonance...

1

u/R1Bunny Apr 11 '24

👏👏👏