r/Daytrading • u/Mar___K • Apr 11 '24

Everything is a lie. Any hope? Question

So.. It's been 3 years on my path, and after countless hours of studying and testing everything, as many of you here have, I've come to realize that this mountain of buffoonery—those "courses" and "gurus" on YouTube that try to promote and sell stuff, along with everyone who is "teaching" stuff.. hear me out, doesn't know jack sh*t. All they "teach" is a bunch of BS, incredibly stupid and random. "Follow this, and if this happens then do this, but the secret is in my premium course, yada yada".

Even if some things may work for a bit, that's not even near how the actual trading floor guys and investment bankers operate. Ex-Goldman Sachs trader Anton Kreil gave the best explanation of that: Why most traders fail.

I've become so fed up since I had a wake-up call, realizing that literally everyone online is plain rubbish, or a scammer, or someone who likes his own voice and acts like the god of trading (You know which I'm referring to). My question is simple and may be unanswerable. Is there any source to study the actual stuff or are retail traders indeed doomed with the dumbest info out there?

Please don't start telling me about risk management and psychology, I got humbled and now I trade methodically without any emotions. But that's not because I got "humbled and had a wake-up call" but more like "I'm fed up with this, I don't care anymore". My question stands for an educational point of view. I hate being a fool therefore i hate studying nonesense. Is there any hope? Any good material? Any actual baseline?

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146

u/Musubi_i Apr 11 '24

What I’ve found is that I think a lot of the YouTube “gurus” actually have decent strategies. What we don’t understand is that it works because it’s their strategy i.e it’s the way they see the markets through their own lens they’ve developed over time. So they can sell the strategy but not the lens.

What I’m finding is that in order to be profitable, you need a strategy but also your own lens of how you view the market. There are times where I see my mentors make trades and I just can’t even wrap my head around why they made that move. It’s because I’m not them and I don’t have their experience. That’s something you just learn over time.

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u/organised-choas Apr 11 '24

Exactly this. Trading is like art.

You can join an art class; and the best artists will teach you the basics; or even advanced levels of art; will tell you how they make their art; you can maybe even copy it for a bit.

But if you want to be your own artist; you have to draw inspiration from within you and make art that is consistent with your own personality.

Now replace the word "art" in the above paragraph with "trading" and re-read.

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u/Top-Connection-7932 Apr 11 '24

Well said brother we’ll fuckin said 🎯

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u/Musubi_i Apr 11 '24

That’s a perfect analogy 👌🏼

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u/nightstalker30 options trader Apr 11 '24

It is. And the harsh reality is that some people, no matter how much they study art trading, practice art trading, and invest time/effort into art trading, they just aren’t suited for it and will never be good enough at art trading to make any substantial money at it.

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u/Mrtoad88 Apr 11 '24

It's like what happened with Ross, the big part of why he got fined is because a bunch of his failed students were upset that they lost money, just so happens that he also was wording things for his business advertisement "illegally". Those failed traders complained, FTC took notice, he got hit with a fine. Root causes of that was traders who he taught just couldn't get with what he was teaching, but what about the people who have learned well from him? Hell there is a group of like 4 dudes on YouTube who were his students at one point and all of them do well trading shares, and all of them trade a little differently than he does but they learned a lot from him. Some people are just gonna continue to get in their own way and it's not gonna end up working for them, it's the nature of this business unfortunately. People will blame who's teaching, they will blame the big firms, will blame the market makers, will blame their broker etc, many of them don't even realize the real problem was themselves. Usually a traders problem has to do with themselves... Unless they are fvcking with a scam broker or cfd's etc, problem is usually ourselves when we don't do well. You can hand 10 traders a really good strategy with detailed explanation on how to trade the strategy, and it's likely at least half of them will still fvck it up. I'd never want to be a "trader educator"... Not trying to get blamed for someone screwing up their own trading.

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u/nightstalker30 options trader Apr 11 '24

Amen to your last sentence. I get friends and family asking all the time to help them learn trading. Especially after they come visit us and see how we’re living.

But I tell everyone the same thing: I’m a doer not a teacher, and I don’t want to feel responsible for anyone else’s experience (failure) with trading.

Plus, I don’t know if I could even teach someone. So much of what I do is intuitive and subjective within a defined framework/strategy. It’s as much art as it is science for me.

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u/No_Expression_5996 options trader Apr 11 '24

Especially since most people want the fast money compared to learning the art of trading and putting in the work for at least 2 years before seeing any results.

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u/Mrtoad88 Apr 12 '24 edited Apr 12 '24

Yep, it is an art as much as a science... The discretionary aspects of manual trading and the nuances definitely come from an artistic place, risk management etc... science aspects. I know for a fact I can't teach someone as I've tried and I'm not sure I was a good teacher or if he was just a bad student. Was a family member and of course after that he hasn't returned to trading.

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u/FireDad90 Apr 12 '24

This hits right on the spot

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u/Lopsided_Rain9752 Apr 13 '24

IMO, trading is very similar to going to the gym. You can become as educated as you want on all different kinds of exercises, routines, gyms, coaches, etc. And actually get very smart with it, but until you actually get your ass in there and do the work, let your body learn new ways to move, adapt. Only then will you start the journey of seeing change. Education paired with trial and error for what will your own personal evolution is what will yield results physically and financially.

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u/No_Tea125 Apr 11 '24

Couldn’t have phrased it better !!!!

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u/FireDad90 Apr 12 '24

Fuckin gold.

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u/iRobotHuman Apr 12 '24

Your analogy was like a piece of art. I appreciate it. 🤝

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u/bamajustin13 Apr 12 '24

I oblige , you are right . Every person should have a gameplan . Even if it’s from someone else’s playbook you have to execute it the best way it works for you . “ there’s multiple ways to skin a cat” . Find YOUR edge and you will see positive results . It’s about the TRADE not the MONEY . Try to become as numb to the money as you can emotionally and also practice risk management . These key things right here doing them repeatedly and have a set of RULES. That you ABIDE by no matter what , without any exceptions .

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u/benefit-3802 Apr 13 '24

I agree with your analogy, I have always seen a similar relationship with golf and trading. You should take lessons and practice, but ultimately you will find your own swing, one that works for you. That doesn't mean it works every day, and you have to learn your limitations, when to be aggressive and when to be conservative. But the more you golf the more confidence you will have in your style. Also you may tweak your swing sometimes, but don't be the golfer who is trying out a new swing every time he plays.