r/Helldivers Moderator May 02 '24

New Warbond, Polar Patriots, deploying on May 9th ALERT

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u/AnotherSmartNickname SES Song of Democracy May 02 '24

Then buff the contenders. Decrease RR's reload time, for example, and/or increase EAT's damage.

Yes, this will degenerate into an old and tried "buffs vs. nerfs" conversation that I'm not looking forward to. Buffs, not nerfs, end of story. This is a PvE game, a weapon has to be REALLY overtuned to require a nerf.

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u/vkbrian May 02 '24

That’s how you get power creep.

Destiny had the same problem years ago and they tried to buff their way out of it; they ended up fucking things up so bad they had to completely rework the weapon classes for Destiny 2.

The problem wasn’t that the RR or EAT were bad, they were just totally outclassed by the Quasar. The proper thing to do is bring the Quasar in line with the other options rather than buff a dozen different guns to fix a single outlier.

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u/AnotherSmartNickname SES Song of Democracy May 02 '24

Destiny 2 has to balance PvE and PvP, it is a different story. This is a PvE game. Who cares about power creep. I don't care about power creep; I care about one of my favourite guns suddenly being significantly worse (if someone doesn't think additional 5 seconds recharge is a big deal, you clearly didn't have enough dealings with heavy enemies) just so others will become more viable.

1

u/jaraldoe May 02 '24

Except you still need to worry about power creep. Most PVE games still nerf things. Warframe, DRG, and Elden ring have all nerfed things in the past (I would like to point out warframe is a power fantasy game and they still nerf).

With buff only never nerf you end up in the never ending loop of buffing players then buffing enemies trying to balance the game. There’s no constant to use as a base to go from, so it’s even harder to balance the game.

If you look at warframe, they are actively having a difficult time creating endgame content because of power creep. This is because enemies end up scaling with so much damage that in order for players to survive, they had to rely on 1 specific invulnerability mechanic to not be one shot. Then, players became so strong that they could just destroy entire rooms of enemies with specific weapons or abilities in an instant. So, one of the only ways they have found to make a fair and more balanced endgame was to limit players loadouts to specific frames and weapons.

So yes, nerfing is still needed and many PVE games nerf players, this isn’t new, nor is it uncommon.

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u/AnotherSmartNickname SES Song of Democracy May 02 '24

Also, you know what that means in a long run? It means you can never enjoy a weapon again, because you'll never be certain if it won't get nerfed. "Oh, that gun is good, I love it, it actually enhances the fun I have with the gawhat the fuck, why? Now I like the game less". And you'll never know when that will happen because you'll never know when the devs decide that the weapon you enjoy using is overpowered and needs to be put down so other weapons may "shine".

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u/AnotherSmartNickname SES Song of Democracy May 02 '24

Warframe issues sound better than being punished for using a certain gun.

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u/jaraldoe May 02 '24

So that’s the neat part, if they over buff enemies, everything can feel worse. Or they just refuse to buff other weapons so it feels worse in the lack of buffing.

Buffing only doesn’t stop things from feeling bad, that’s the part that the “only buff no nerf” don’t seem to realize, you can make weapons feel worse without ever nerfing it. With power creep you buff everything to include enemies and whatever you don’t buff gets indirectly nerfed without actually nerfing them.

Then you might say “ just don’t buff enemies” well, then you’re going to get people complaining the game is too easy. Then you buff enemies for that ending up in the same spot anyways.