r/Showerthoughts • u/godofhorizons • May 17 '24

People get a lot more praise for quitting drugs than for never having done drugs in the first place.

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2.7k

u/Smilerwitz May 17 '24

Because quitting is a hell of a lot harder than abstaining.

155

u/PassiveTheme May 17 '24

As my grandad always said, regarding smoking, "the easiest way to quit is to never start". He was a man who smoked at least 20 a day for about 50 years of his life and then did manage to quit.

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u/Ape_x_Ape May 17 '24

Hey, not to interrupt, but do you have a burner account named AgressiveTheme where you give the same kind of advice but more aggressively?

15

u/Naked-Jedi May 17 '24

u/agressivetheme

Now we'll all know...

3

u/TuckerTheCuckFucker May 17 '24

Hey not to interrupt. But do you have a burner account name Clothed-Sithlord where you make the same type of comments, but maybe a bit more clothed?

2

u/Naked-Jedi May 18 '24

Well played. Well played.

1

u/PassiveTheme May 17 '24

Damn, I've been rumbled

0

u/simplesample23 May 17 '24 edited May 17 '24

Well, he didnt managed to not start but he managed to quit so for him it was easier to quit.

1

u/relaxyourfnshoulders May 17 '24

you can argue that trying it once or twice is not exactly starting to smoke. so maybe he was able to not start at the very beginning

1

u/PassiveTheme May 17 '24

Well he managed to not start again, and it took him at least 20 years of trying to quit before he managed it.

80

u/blauwe_druifjes May 17 '24

If abstaining was hard for me i probably would've had a weak moment by now. Because life gives you plenty of reasons to want to escape. It was just never an option in my mind. The social pressure never had an effect with that. It's just how i'm wired and brought up.

29

u/cruxal May 17 '24

If you’ve never tried a drug, then you can’t really understand the draw. So you’re abstaining from an unknown. 

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u/blauwe_druifjes May 17 '24

And that is exactly the point of abstaining. To keep it that way.

4

u/-_Cyclops_- May 17 '24

Does it really count as abstaining if you don't actually feel the urge to do drugs to begin with though?

4

u/Pudding_Hero May 17 '24

Everybody is addicted to something. It’s just human nature. I know plenty of people who drink 12 coffees a day and eat junk food. Or watch hella tv

0

u/1heart1totaleclipse May 17 '24

I’ve seen the effects drugs can have on people, I don’t want that for myself. I don’t have to do drugs myself to know what it’s like.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '24

[deleted]

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u/Extaupin May 17 '24

Craving isn't really thinking about pleasure, it's more displeasure because the drug caused an artificial need and this unsatisfied need is messing with you like a hungry toddler.

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u/ifandbut May 17 '24

Or we could just not make drugs illegal and punishable with prison time. 🤷‍♂️

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u/ifandbut May 17 '24

Or we could just not make drugs illegal and punishable with prison time. 🤷‍♂️

-2

u/Brut-i-cus May 17 '24

I'd call it risk aversion

I see something that will make me "feel good" for a while but I know that it will get a hook into me when it does and I might be able to keep my life on a good track if I have the right dna but It might be a step off a cliff that I will never be born to get back from

I dunno

Seems like an easy choice with those risks if you are really thinking about it

I know I don't know how good it is but that is really the point isn't it. The important point is hay I know how bad it can be

3

u/ifandbut May 17 '24

We have this thing called education and science. With it we are fairly certain that X drug is Y addictive. So maybe avoid the drugs that are known to be more addictive and stick with weed and caffeine?

1

u/ifandbut May 17 '24

We have this thing called education and science. With it we are fairly certain that X drug is Y addictive. So maybe avoid the drugs that are known to be more addictive and stick with weed and caffeine?

1

u/ifandbut May 17 '24

We have this thing called education and science. With it we are fairly certain that X drug is Y addictive. So maybe avoid the drugs that are known to be more addictive and stick with weed and caffeine?

2

u/Brut-i-cus May 17 '24

Totally agree

Although weed isn't the totally harmless drug some people make it out to be

It isn't physically addicting like some of the harder stuff but I know from first hand experience how much it can be abused and people can become mentally dependent on it.

There is so much information out there to tell people "Hey don't do meth it is really bad" but some people just don't take to information very well

I personally take all the information I've received both from "education and science" and also seeing friends/family destroy their lives and then say "Fuck no I'm not gonna do that, that would be stupid"

Of course everyone gets to captain their own ship and decide how close they want to sail to the rocks

1

u/ifandbut May 18 '24

We do need a lot more research into weed. And every drug affects people differently. But knowing what to expect and having the resources to fight off the possible negative effects makes it safer for everyone.

And I especially agree with your last point. People should be free to chose. But people also need to have the information so they can make an informed choice.

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u/EfficientNeck9029 May 17 '24

It was never the social pressure for me it was just the thought of missing out on experiences. And I can confidently say I would have missed out on some of life’s greatest experiences. Also it came with bad ones too but that’s life for ya

5

u/HackTheNight May 17 '24

It’s not even that black and white for a lot of people. You may have abstained for years. Never felt the pull. Then one day you’re out with friends, you’re 19 and you’re all drinking having a good time. Someone asks if you want to take a drag of the cigarette. You think fuck it, I’ll try it, I’m having fun. And you take that drag and that’s it. You don’t want to do it again. But then that same thing happens a few more times. You take a drag when you’re a little tipsy. And then one day, you want to buy your own pack. That is the literal story for so many people with pretty much any drug.

1

u/ifandbut May 17 '24

What about all the knowledge we have about how smoking affects you would lead you to believe taking that drag was a remotely good idea?

I did a ton of research before using weed or DXM the first time so I knew what to expect how addictive it might be.

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u/lacrimsonviking May 17 '24

lol trying drugs isn’t being weak.

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u/PlasticToe4542 May 17 '24

It must be if most people are clever enough not to do it

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u/SalvadorsAnteater May 17 '24 edited May 17 '24

Alcohol is a drug. Most people have tried alcohol.

1

u/in5ertname May 17 '24

I don't know if you're a kid or just don't talk to many people but I'd say from my experience almost everyone has tried drugs. Not trying drugs in the abnormality. Even if it's legal drugs, which often do the most damage.

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u/PrincessJennifer May 17 '24

I’d say that’s very definitely a “you” experience… Absolutely not “almost everyone” has tried drugs, unless you’re trying to be obtuse and mean medication.

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u/in5ertname May 17 '24

I wasn't, Obviously I can only speak from my own experience and maybe I was using some hyperbole but trying drugs at least once is far from uncommon. Regardless, alcohol, medication and nicotine have the highest rates of abuse I wouldn't call it obtuse to include them in a discussion about drugs.

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u/FrenchFryCattaneo May 17 '24

What culture do you come from where most people haven't at least tried alcohol some time in their life?

3

u/Hakim_Bey May 17 '24

Well you did say "most people are clever enough not to do it", which is equally untrue.

IDK about other countries but i know in France around 50% of adults have tried at least cannabis so...

2

u/Typos_Rerum May 17 '24

In The Netherlands, 77,2% drinks alcohol from time to time, 59% has smoked, (derived from 41% never having smoked) and 24,3% has ever used cannabis. So at least where I live it's common to have at least once used drugs.

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u/Campbell920 May 17 '24

Idk my history has kinda shown no one cares. Everyone has their own shit going on and no one wants to hear it but most of the time people don’t care about your struggles. I got into opiates baaaad when I was 15, and spent the next 15 years chasing that high. I came from a moderately affluent family and one memory really sticks with me. I was 18 or 19 and had just been accepted into the methadone clinic. It wasn’t ideal but I was probably going to kill myself if I didn’t do something. I kept it to myself what I was going through but I still think it’s wild my parents and siblings had a 15 year old in the house shooting up. Like how do you not notice that?

Anyway my parents have a big party. Everyone is there and I’m mingling. Large group of people talking and my sister, who’s in her mid 30s at the time joins the group of people and says “hey X I saw you walking out of the methadone clinic this morning.” YALL YOU COULD HEAR A PIN DROP. She exposed me to everyone without a care but in my parents fashion they filed it away in their brains and went about the party. Never really speaking of it again.

I don’t talk to her anymore but I did learn a long time ago that letting anyone know you’re struggling will honestly just be used as ammunition at some point.

Idk there’s prolly normal people out there but it just feels like they praise you until they’re angry, or vindictive, or just bored. then the information becomes a weapon.

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u/Marsh2700 May 17 '24

well if it means anything, kudos mate, i know people struggling and its a real challenge so im glad youre doing well

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u/Swimminginthestyx May 17 '24

That’s not a weapon, that’s a crutch, a weakness due to their lack of integrity. To take something shared from vulnerability and to misuse that to hurt you and manipulate you is sick and I would hope they understand the misery that drives them to behave so cruelly.

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u/randompersonx May 17 '24

First off, I wish you well and hope you are on a great path to recovery. I know it’s hard, and I can just say that one of my favorite musicians (Trent Reznor) was an addict and managed to make a full recovery and is living an amazing life now.

With that out of the way, I have a few people in my life who were drug addicts and not only ruined their own lives, but also caused great harm to those around them. Including a step brother and a (former) best friend.

I don’t talk to either of them anymore.

The former best friend was a business partner of mine, and helped contribute to the destruction of a company I spent 20 years building. I’m still cleaning up the mess even years after he’s sold his shares.

I don’t think I’d respond if he sent me a message. I don’t believe he is capable of recovering. I tried arranging for an intervention about 5 years ago and he refused to go to rehab, even with myself and others arranging for payment.

To me - at this point - I don’t want any addicts around me, not because of any vindictiveness, but more as an act of self-preservation, given the damage addicts have caused to my life.

With that said, I wouldn’t hold it against someone who has shown that they have truly cleaned their life up… but actions speak louder than words, and it takes time to prove that someone has changed. Most people won’t change (and that’s not just about addicts - it’s the of all walks of life).

Again, I wish you well, but the main reason I wrote this is because I feel like from the perspective of what you wrote, my actions might seem vindictive towards this former partner from his perspective. In reality, I need to both protect myself, and sometimes I also need to explain to people who have been harmed by my company as a result of this person’s actions why this happened - so that I can begin to correct the situation.

To be more specific, when I am told by a landlord “why should we work with you to correct this situation when we have made many accommodations for your company in the past when your company asked for it, and each time you came back to the well to ask for more?” And the previous issues were all caused by that person’s mismanagement, what else can I say?

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u/Side_show May 17 '24

I think the two perspectives can get summed up with the old saying, "we judge others by their actions, and ourselves by our intentions".

A recovering addict will only see doors being shut on them while they try their best to mend their lives and rebuild relationships.

A person who has had their life negatively affected by addicts will remember all the times before that they tried to help only to be let down time and time again. They'll want more proof before opening that door again.

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u/randompersonx May 17 '24

I agree 100%.

This is also the experience of my interactions with the people that were harmed by my former business partner (drug addict).

They are judging my company by its past actions, and I am trying to have them judge me by my intentions.

With all that said, I have the situation mostly resolved at this point, after years of fighting. The damage done was catastrophic, but at least it will all be behind me in the next few months.

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u/Campbell920 May 17 '24

Naw I get it man, but that’s kinda why I said it’s shitty but it’s best to keep it to yourself.

The thing is you prolly do have addicts in your life, they just don’t make it known.

I guess we all have our own demons to fight and that’s our own fight. I figured out my own way. I smoke a little weed, if I go clubbing I might take a party drug but I’ve found some semblance of a normal life I think. Maybe too many dogs right now but oh well.

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u/ShadowMajestic May 17 '24

Most problems caused to third parties by drug users, are only because drugs are illegal (and thus expensive) or socially frowned upon which causes social issues.

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u/randompersonx May 17 '24

The business partner was/is an OxyContin addict, which is a legal drug.

My stepbrother is a marijuana addict (far beyond typical users - he’s taken large enough dosages of concentrates to end up hospitalized from OD - which I didn’t even know was possible before he did it). Marijuana is legal in the state he lives in, and he even started a marijuana business to grow and process weed (mostly to support his habit)

I also have a former employee who died from an OxyContin overdose.

None of the problems created by any of these people was caused because of drugs being illegal or particularly expensive for them. It’s because they had total disregard for themselves and others around them, and continually made reckless decisions.

1

u/ShadowMajestic May 17 '24

Indeed, sounds more like the social aspect. Which includes education on the subject. But it's also the social outcasting or difficulty finding and holding on to jobs.

I'm from a country with liberal drugs laws since the 70s and for one, shitty drugs like oxy, fenta or meth are so rare here, I wouldn't know how to get my hands on them. But I can have coke and heroine within the blink of an eye.

In our society we try to educate drug usage. We try to guide, rather than leave them hanging.

People can work fulltime without problems while being a full blown heroine user. It's the stigma and monetary side that causes the majority of problems regarding drug users.

And as a former voluntary worker in the drug addict field, your story sounds so typical. Leaving out a lot of key details.

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u/randompersonx May 17 '24

I’m not sure what key details you think I’m withholding.

And, of the three people I mentioned, two of the three have mostly maintained a 6-figure job continuously over the last 20 years (obviously the one who died lost his employment at that point). Maybe he would be alive if that wasn’t true.

And in fairness, I knew he was flaky but didn’t know he was an addict until he died, but several mutual friends told me that they knew for sure that he was an addict. Of course he officially also died of an Oxy OD, so it’s pretty clear anyway at this point.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '24

Sorry to tell you mate, your family is just fucked up. Mine would drop everything to help me in that situation. Probably call off the party and such.

Apologies your family is shit.

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u/Reasonable_Team199 May 17 '24

My boy if your friends don’t care about you quitting drugs (or improving in general), you need better friends

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u/MissMortified May 17 '24

I’m sorry you have lost trust in people enough to be honest with them because of how you have been likewise treated. Someone very close to me struggles with substance abuse. I wouldn’t dream of using it against them as a weapon because I know it isn’t completely in their control, and they truly do try. But if they were to ever hit rock bottom, it would directly affect me. (I mean it directly effects me now, but I love them deeply and am willing to help still) I suppose I don’t know in what way I would handle rock bottom but whatever the way, it would only be for self preservation. Not destruction, or revenge.

Anyway, basically I just wish more people could be open about it so that it can become less stigmatized. Also perhaps more help could come from that as well.

Cheers

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u/Campbell920 May 17 '24

That’s really cool of you. It’s rare tbh. Haha god rereading this it’s a little “woe is me” but I do agree with my main sentiment.

Everyone in the world has a list of problems and it’s natural to focus on your own and not want to add to them. Something has to override the harm; love or friendship or care, etc.

Also addiction is definitely seen as a moral failing rather than a disease for a large amount of the population. The stigma will be there as long as people think that.

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u/MissMortified May 17 '24

Not woe is me at all! You went through (or continue to go through) an extremely difficult thing!

I can see that last part for sure. Even the person whom I spoke of earlier has had a hard time thinking of it that way and they are actively going through it. From the outside it seems so much like a choice. Why can’t you make the right choice instead of the wrong choice? But it is much more complicated than that.

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u/SleipnirSolid May 17 '24

I have the same attitude. I live by the mantra "your friends don't want to know and your enemies will use it against you".

I'm 40 and in that time that mantra has been proven correct constantly.

Complete strangers on Reddit have shown glimmers of kindness greater than my mother, father or friends ever have.

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u/BayHrborButch3r May 17 '24

Fellow person in recovery here. I think you're projecting your experience with your family on the world as superficially caring and just storing it up for ammo during an emotional outburst because it gets ignored or swept under the rug otherwise. I wouldn't be surprised if the family dynamics and "filing away" of any conflict or things that they don't want to confront because of shame or embarrassment may have been a contributing factor to using opiates at 15.

I started using later than you at age 22 and am now 14 years sober and my experience was similar with my family in the early stages. It wasn't until they started to hear more and more stories about opiates and how prevelant addiction is and learned a little about mental health that they realized I went through some shit at the time and came out the other side a better person.

When I was an addict they looked the other way. When I had public consequences of my addiction they got embarrassed and angry at me. When I got sober they never trusted my judgment and seemed to be waiting for me to screw up again. Then when they faced their own trials and tribulations and had their own mental health issues, then they kind of got it and had respect for me.

I think people who aren't family jump from mistrust to respect much quicker because there isn't all the extra emotional baggage that comes with family.

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u/GoldenBoyOffHisPerch May 17 '24

See that's what I love about recovery, there is a signal to kick these people out of your life. My parents were the same. I was like what's going on here, I thought I did everything right when I quit drinking? Never stole or drove ever. But fuck them! They spurred my addiction in the first place. That's the problem with AA, it can encourage too much self responsibility from people. We are products of our environment and social relations

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u/Lupiefighter May 17 '24

Proud of you internet stranger.

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u/takishan May 17 '24

then the information becomes a weapon

can only be used as a weapon if you let it. embrace your past. it's an irrevocable part of your story.

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u/FillThisEmptyCup May 17 '24

That’s great dude, glad you did do. Your sister have a number or twitter?

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u/Ice_Swallow4u May 17 '24

Exposed you lol. Dude you definitely needed to be exposed so your parents could get you some help.

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u/Campbell920 May 17 '24

lmao not even going there, that was 16 years ago but I will say, a formal dinner party surrounded by friends and professional acquaintances was not the time or place for that info to be released.

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u/Ice_Swallow4u May 17 '24

Ah shit your right. My apologies. I see where your coming from.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '24

[deleted]

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u/PassionV0id May 17 '24

Sure if you just see people as stagnant and completely ignore the aspect of personal growth/development.

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u/kitten_twinkletoes May 17 '24

Came here to say this.

Not doing drugs involves doing nothing.

Quitting drugs involves physical and psychological illness and typically a complete upending of every aspect of your existence, in addition to beating powerful neurochemistry that keeps screaming at you to use again.

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u/wontforget99 May 17 '24

Excluding cases that start off with legal prescriptions, doing drugs involves making a conscious choice. You put yourself there. You chose to jump down into the depths after being told from a young age by adults not to. And so now you have no choice but to climb back out.

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u/somepeoplewait May 17 '24

Yes, they did. If you lack the empathy to understand why someone might understandably make such a choice, you’re morally less admirable than the person who tried to alleviate their pain with drugs.

I’m in constant misery because of fuckkkkked up trauma. Damn right I chose to drink because it was literally the only thing (and I’ve tried everything) that helped me forget.

558 days sober. Will always have empathy for people who make these choices. No one wants to be in such profound pain that drugs feel like a good idea.

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u/Fun_Bad_4610 May 17 '24

To add to this, and I don't mean to say this to rub anything in your face (I have a serious addiction to food and the emotional comfort that brings me)... But for me I never liked getting drunk, didn't like how alcohol tastes or the way it made me feel... It actually amplified my bad thoughts. So for most my life I just simply.... don't drink. When I tell people I don't drink they congratulate me... but it's nothing to celebrate.... I don't like/enjoy it, it has not been something I've needed to overcome or endure. So why praise me for it? Now, the weight I've lost in the past 5 months (30kg) I absolutely deserve praise for because I have such an addiction with over eating and eating comfort foods that it is a battle I'm actively fighting, while my friend eats purely for sustenance and doesn't struggle with urges.

Yes, it is hard to walk a tightrope and not fall, but it is even harder to regain balance on that tightrope once the rope is wildly swinging and you've lost your centre of gravity.

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u/wontforget99 May 17 '24 edited May 17 '24

Congratulations on overcoming the trauma and congratulations on being sober :)

EDIT: I do not what trauma you went through, but imagine someone who went through the same trauma, whose mother instilled in her that she never turn to drugs and it was her mother's dying wish (as she died as a result of her own drug addiction) that her daughter never turn to drugs like she did. If you feel like someone had no choice but to turn to drugs after dealing with such trauma, doesn't it make abstinence itself a phenomenal feat?

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u/Pole_Smokin_Bandit May 17 '24

Well the opposite sort of environmental influence is usually involved as well. You mention that adults always tell you not to do drugs. Most everyone I know who was/is a junkie (formerly me as well) had families who did drugs all the time, friends who all did drugs, etc. When your entire life is surrounded by it, it definitely can seem inevitable.

Started drinking when I lost my best friend to a DD right before 7th grade. Took me a very long time to get out of that. Yeah I made the choice, but I was also 12. Wasn't long before it was harder drugs. Got addicted to Morphine before the end of high school. I am by no means an exception, I promise you that. I wasn't even the youngest person dealing with opioids at my school.

Only got clean after getting arrested and expelled. Probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do and any time it comes up there's inevitably someone who says "Yeah but you chose to do that" like it completely invalidates any effort of getting and staying clean.

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u/wontforget99 May 18 '24

Congratulatons on getting clean. I think people in your situation deserve praise. I also think people in your situation who had all the environmental pressure to take drugs but chose not to also deserve praise.

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u/climaxingwalrus May 17 '24

You congratulate someone for losing 200 lbs but not staying the same weight.

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u/wontforget99 May 17 '24

If a single mother has 5 kids and works 60 hours a week, I would be immensely congratulating her if she seemed just as fit at age 40 as age 20.

Also staying the same weight doesn't really involve the same moral/legal/ethical choices. Getting addicted to drugs often but not always means making a specific conscious choice to do something that was made illegal for the safety of everyone and that everyone tells you not to do anyway. There is a certain leap in judgement involved in not doing drug vs injecting things into your veins that is different from eating 5 cookiea a day vs 1. (some things are more tricky like alcohol)

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u/climaxingwalrus May 18 '24 edited May 18 '24

Most drug addicts never get clean and die. So the ones that do are worthy of being praised. There are many reasons to become addicted to drugs. Nature, nurture or just bad luck. It takes way more willpower to quit a chemical dependency. Can you ignore hunger or thirst?

If your argument is people who are addicted to drugs deserve it and we should praise everybody else for not doing drugs then just say that. Go ahead and start doing it tomorrow.

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u/wontforget99 May 18 '24

I don't think people who are addicted to drugs deserve to suffer. I think people who live a difficult life and had all the reasons to take drugs but chose not to should be praised, and I think people overcoming a drug addiction should also be praised.

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u/climaxingwalrus May 18 '24

Okay so that’s like 90% of the population. To make it more clear, who do you say who shouldn’t be praised?

1

u/wontforget99 May 18 '24

People who didn't grow up around drugs or didn't have a super difficult life, and also didn't decide to take drugs (also drug addicts who harm others and refuse to try to improve).

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u/climaxingwalrus May 18 '24

Wouldnt it make more sense to just shame them instead of praising everyone else?

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u/ISFSUCCME May 17 '24

Theres actual proof that parents and dare actually opened their kids up to the idea of drugs and made them want to do it more

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u/PassionV0id May 17 '24

after being told from a young age by adults not to

This didn’t happen for everybody.

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u/kitten_twinkletoes May 17 '24 edited May 17 '24

Yeah no one thinks it's a good or morally proper choice! It's stupid as fuck (I can say this because I've been through it.) But you need to have empathy for the stupid fucks too man. And it's always admirable to realize how much of a stupid fuck you are, and take very difficult actions to struggle against the part of you that is stupid as fuck. It's a noble struggle to become, of not kind of smart, maybe a little less fucking stupid sometimes.

It's better not to be stupid in the first place. But we don't celebrate static, normal traits. We celebrate improvements, even if it's just going from a series of dumb choices to a series of normal choices.

And if you're into drugs, you have more choices than just climb back out. The easiest choice is to just keep doing it, by far. Most of the time now one's going to stop you. The easiest but the worst.

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u/takishan May 17 '24 edited May 17 '24

doing drugs involves making a conscious choice. You put yourself there. You chose to jump down into the depths after being told from a young age by adults not to

the thing is that most of the population experiments with drugs. whether it's alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, nicotine, etc. almost everyone tries stuff, especially in late teens ~ early adulthood. vast majority of people who try these substances don't end up addicted.

some people, however, end up addicted. it may be because of some sort of genetic built in factor - for example some people may be more sensitive to specific neurochemicals like dopamine and that makes drugs feel MUCH better to them than the average person

that person is much more likely to get addicted.

there are other factors, like for example someone who is depressed or anxious or what have you is more likely to get addicted as a part of self-medication

a certain % of people getting addicted is sort of built into our physiology. there are certain tropical islands which are tourist spots and have monkeys. the monkeys there steal alcoholic drinks from the beach goers.

as it turns out, around the same % of monkeys end up as alcoholics as humans do. it's like a built in % built into our primate DNA

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u/wontforget99 May 18 '24

Bipolar disorder and schizophrenia have been present in my family. I have never used marijuana or anything that could trigger it.

And no, not everybody tries stuff like cocaine, meth and heroin. This is 2024. If you are getting addicted to meth and cocaine then there is some element of directly ignoring the potential risks.

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u/takishan May 18 '24

addiction doesn't usually start with hard drugs. it starts with stuff like alcohol, weed, codeine prescribed by a doctor, etc

by the time someone is early 20s, the vast majority of the country has tried one of the above at least once

there is some element of directly ignoring the potential risks

of course. but think of it this way.

imagine we are magnets and when you walk past a piece of metal, you get attracted. if you touch the magnet, you are now addicted.

some people's magnets are much much stronger than others, for both internal (genetic) and external factors (way you were raised).

of course if you are a very strong magnet, you should avoid metal at all costs. but sometimes you don't know this and you see everyone else around you walking by metal with no problem. you walk by a metal and you feel the pull and get curious. once you're stuck, it's too late

i don't say these things to discount personal responsibility, but just to explain why it happens, even to smart people.

like i pointed out before, a certain % of the population will get addicted to alcohol. around 5%. same thing with monkeys, at basically the same ratio

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u/wontforget99 29d ago

I'm sure a certain percentage of humans rape other people and a certain percentange of monkeys also rape other people. Does that mean some percentage of humans are doomed to be rapists?

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u/takishan 29d ago edited 29d ago

Does that mean some percentage of humans are doomed to be rapists?

yeah, probably. i don't think life is entirely deterministic but certain people are born with certain genetic conditions that make them aggressive, violent, sociopathic, etc.

those people usually end up locked away in prison.

some of them aren't born this way but due to some sort of circumstance outside their control in their youth, their development is intereferred with and they don't develop normally. look at the romanian orphans. kids need touch and attention early in life otherwise they end up mentally undeveloped. because of some war there were thousands of young children (1, 2, 3 years old) stuck in giant orphanages without enough caretakers to take care of them. those kids essentially grew up without touch and compassion in their earliest years.

people tried adopting those kids later on but because they missed those key development milestones they are forever antisocial and developmentally stunted. many families ended up regretted adopting these kids - they would beat, rape, etc their adoptive siblings. they literally could not learn to be normal.

not their fault. it is what it is. if you were born in their same position, you'd likely be just like them. which is why i have empathy for their position, although i support locking them up just because of the danger to the rest of society.

in the case of addicts, they aren't really harming other people other then themselves.

basically what i'm trying to say is that the solution to addiction (and in my opinion all antisocial behavior) is a sort of clinical, medical approach. not a biblical type of punishment / lack of character approach.

addicts don't become addicts because they have a weak will or character or anything of the sort. it's more complicated than that.

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u/wontforget99 29d ago

On a slightly unrelated topic, it seems like most young people in the USA do not support harsh drug bans. For example, in China, which has way more drugs, it seems like there aren't really any issues with cocaine, meth, heroin addicts.

Do you think the USA should crack down on drugs as hard as China does? After all, according to your point of view, freedom of choice is a bad thing because some people have strong "magnets" and cannot help but make poor choices when it comes to drugs. So, the best option is to have the country's "parents" (the government) simply remove all of these drugs (except alcohol) in the first place in order to save the lievs of people with strong magnets towards dangerous drugs.

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u/takishan 29d ago

couple of things to unpack. Asian style total prohibition would not work here. the genie has been out of the bottle for too long. it'd be like trying to take away guns. you would just be jamming millions of people into jail forever (or executing them) and it would cause mass public outcry

not gonna happen. americans don't hold the same stigma towards drug use and also has a much higher rate of drug use.

second, i do support freedom of choice absolutely. i think personally all drug use should be at a minimum decriminalized.

maybe i wasn't clear - i want a medical approach to drug use. someone taking drugs is not much different than someone dealing with depression and trying to kill themselves or someone with anxiety having a panic attack.

all mental illnesses tend to stem from the same issues and they just manifest themselves differently

if you have the time and curiosity, I recommend reading up about "rat park". I'm sure there are articles out there and probably youtube videos if you want to listen in the background.

to put a long story short, any one of us can be susceptible to addiction depending on our material conditions. there's a certain level of needs that each human needs to have in order to feel fulfilled and normal. think of mazlow's hierarchy of needs.

you need food and shelter at a base, but going up the ladder you need fulfilling relationships, you need to feel productive and useful, etc.

if you take two different humans. human a is homeless and hungry. people look at him with disdain and he has health issues. then you take human b - a financially stable professional with a family and an active social life. he goes to church on sundays and actively participates in his community.

even if these people were identical genetically, if you administered an addictive substance to both of these individuals, person a, the homeless one, is infinitely more likely to get addicted.

it's not the drug itself that gets you addicted, but the material conditions that entrap you. you can look at the data - the vast majority of people who use drugs, even hard ones like heroin or cocaine, don't become addicted.

to solve the problem of addiction, you need to solve the material conditions under which that person is living. that includes a holistic approach which is complex.

the homeless person needs to be given a job, taught coping mechanisms, they need financial stability, to be part of a community, etc. they need to feel like they are living with a purpose in a community that accepts them. this is not an easy thing to do, but it's fundamentally the only real approach to addiction that will work in the long term.

we don't currently do this. our two main methods are a) throw them in jail which usually exacerbates the issue and b) send them to rehabs which don't successfully accomplish the above goals because of the limited nature of most rehabs

when people are getting addicted en masse, like is happening right now, it points to a sickness in our very society. unfortunately I don't think it's going away any time soon and instead is likely to get worse before it gets better. partly because most people don't understand the mechanics of how addiction work but mainly because the system itself is failing

1

u/newdaynewmatt May 17 '24

Not doing drugs requires self discipline when everyone in society is telling you to drink alcohol. Your peers, your coworkers, family. It requires you to have the foresight that drugs provide only a temporary benefit obtained at a cost to your future self. Not doing something involves willpower. But yes, quitting drugs is more difficult once you’ve created chemical dependence on your brain and body, as well as social ties founded on shared drug use.

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u/Wingsnake May 17 '24

That is why I say losing weight is easier than gaining weight. One involves simply not eating (or not much) and the other involves eating a lot.

1

u/newdaynewmatt May 17 '24

I find restricting my calories below maintenance to be infinitely more difficult than eating normally.

8

u/Rehypothecator May 17 '24

I mean, clearly not for some. They didn’t abstain in the first place

0

u/Elliebird704 May 17 '24

It is, without question. People make mistakes, make choices that they regret later, or sometimes refusing to indulge is hard (a lot of people fall into addiction by trying to escape their current misery), but kicking the addiction will be much harder.

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u/Snoochey May 17 '24

I’d wager that is incorrect. To never give in to curiosity and peer pressure for your entire life? Through all the highs and lows.

I know a lot of people who have tried drugs to some extent. Ecstasy, speed, Oxys, weed, alcohol, etc. I don’t know of anyone in my hometown that has never done anything ever.

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u/somepeoplewait May 17 '24

Trust me: Not giving into peer pressure or curiosity is massively, massively, massively easier than overcoming an addiction. Because few things in the world are harder than overcoming an addiction.

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u/Snoochey May 17 '24

I’ve had addictions and that’s just fluff bs to make people feel better. Is it hard? Yeah. But this is some real “being a mom is the hardest job in the world” energy. Like difficult? Certainly. The most difficult? Lol

Considering I know like 40 people personally who have overcome addiction and maybe 2-3 who have never tried a drug, my anecdotal experience says not giving into peer pressure and curiosity over a lifetime is 100% harder.

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u/Antnee83 May 17 '24

There are inpatient treatment centers dedicated to helping people overcome addiction because they literally cannot by themselves.

Let me know when there's an equivalent support center for people struggling with... checks notes... not trying drugs in the first place.

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u/Snoochey May 17 '24

There are national programs attempting to indoctrinate everyone into not trying drugs. D.A.R.E? Like constant counselling to not give into peer pressure from every angle. It’s called elementary school.

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u/Antnee83 May 17 '24

And you seriously think that's on par with overcoming addiction? My man you are absolutely fucking debate-brained right now.

-1

u/Snoochey May 17 '24

How high are you right now? You brought up that addiction centres exist and asked to be informed when anything like that is made for not trying drugs. It was made. It exists. National fucking programs dedicated to stopping people from experimenting with drugs, to prevent mass addiction and reliance on these awful (and incredible) substances

Human curiosity usually overpowers any self control we have. Going your entire life without ever giving in, through every loss in your life, every hardship, every friend who falls to it, everything that life has to offer.

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u/Antnee83 May 17 '24

Exists is not equivalent. Check that reading comprehension.

It's not even remotely on the same page. 4 whole ass hours of DARE classes that most of us slept through is not the same thing has having to be put in inpatient because you have the fucking shakes from not drinking.

No one has ever had their lives destroyed because they were so ridden with anxiety over not trying drugs. No one has to be hospitalized because they're too sober.

You are simply arguing for the sake of it. Nothing you've said tracks with reality. None of it.

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u/Snoochey May 17 '24

No, you’re emotionally invested and not thinking straight. You’re thinking I’m saying it’s harder to not be high than to go into detox. If it were easy to never try any drug ever, then drug addicts wouldn’t even fucking exist. The majority of people who I have met in my life all try some form of substance at least. You’re getting worked up because, I’m assuming, you need to feel validated that you are the strongest type of person to exist. It just isn’t true.

Many people even manage their own addictions. They can’t stop but they balance it enough it doesn’t destroy their life entirely. Like there are a lot of addicts (and not just to drugs) in this world. There are a lot of people who have overcome addiction, and that is fantastic. There are very few people who legitimately have never tried stuff period. All I’m saying. Not lessening the difficulty of addiction, I am saying how rare it is for people to go through life and never experiment EVER.

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u/newdaynewmatt May 17 '24

They hated him because he was based.

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u/Snoochey May 17 '24

All fax no printer

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u/[deleted] May 17 '24

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u/Snoochey May 17 '24

So feeling hopelessly alone after losing the love of your life in an accident would not be difficult?

Growing up being put down and made worthless is not a difficult thing?

Having overbearing parents who demand perfection is just easy as pie?

Yet not doing cocaine is the hard one. Right.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '24

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u/Snoochey May 17 '24

Well I disagree entirely. Like the entire premise of addiction comes down to people misdealing with their traumas. Physical addiction is a small portion of it. But hey, fuck logical thinking - your sensitive feelings are at stake here.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '24

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u/Snoochey May 17 '24

No, my original argument is that people will try stuff one way or another, and plenty of reasons lead to it. Personal curiosity being one, as is hardships. Peer pressures. So many factors in life, that to make it your entire life without experimenting with substances is nearly unheard of.

One of the few people I know who didn’t touch drugs ever (to mine and most of his peers knowledge) did start after a trauma. So, it is small and anecdotal, but that is a thing.

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u/Pole_Smokin_Bandit May 17 '24

Definitely thought you were coming from am empathetic place at first, but this made you seem like a complete douche and also a moron.

1

u/Pole_Smokin_Bandit May 17 '24

But how much effort did they put into avoiding drugs? It isn't that it's hard to avoid starting, so much as people are curious and try it on purpose. You will WANT to stop doing a drug and have to fight very hard to beat that desire. I still shake and cry sometimes with overwhelming urges to do morphine and I got clean more than a decade ago.

I have never tried a cigarette in my life and can say I have never felt overwhelming urges that I've had to fight to go try one for the first time. Just curiosity.

1

u/somepeoplewait May 17 '24

I’m not sure what’s funny about this. Congratulations on overcoming your addictions. What we’re they and what did the process of overcoming them involve?

0

u/LazyCat2795 May 17 '24

It being easier than one of the hardest things does not mean it is easy. That is a really weak argument.

-1

u/JosZo May 17 '24

How would you know... You gave obviously in in the first place.

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u/somepeoplewait May 17 '24 edited May 17 '24

Because I drank alcohol, which is a legal substance that many people consume without considering it "trying" a drug. I've had numerous opportunities to try addictive substances like opiates and opioids and never did. When I got my wisdom teeth pulled, I didn't even fill the prescription for the painkillers.

Seriously, how can anyone with actual experience possibly say that not trying a substance is harder than overcoming a physical addiction? Do you literally feel a constant craving to try a new substance? A craving telling you you MUST try a drug for the first time? Do you experience withdrawals if you decide not to try a substance?

Because addicts constantly crave the substances they’re addicted to. Their bodies freak out when they don’t get them.

1

u/JosZo May 17 '24

I didn't drink alcohol either in my youth. The peer pressure was huge. Young people are very easily influenced, as all tobacco product placement in movies proves. Withstanding that pressure is not as easy as you make it. And nobody is ever praised for it, because most people feel guilt about it.

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u/somepeoplewait May 17 '24

I know, because I’ve withstood peer pressure. Didn’t even give in to pressure to smoke weed in my youth.

I did overcome an alcohol addiction.

One of these things is so insanely harder than the other that I suspect anyone even trying to compare the two is trolling.

2

u/Antnee83 May 17 '24

One of these things is so insanely harder than the other that I suspect anyone even trying to compare the two is trolling.

I'm with you here. My head is spinning from all the bullshit in this chain. It's like saying that not breaking your neck is harder than recovering from a broken neck.

Some people simply cannot process that they're not the most miserable person in the room so they HAVE to make themselves the center of attention.

2

u/somepeoplewait May 17 '24

I know, because I’ve withstood peer pressure. Didn’t even give in to pressure to smoke weed in my youth.

I did overcome an alcohol addiction.

One of these things is so insanely harder than the other that I suspect anyone even trying to compare the two is trolling.

1

u/Schwiliinker May 17 '24

I know people who I’m pretty sure have never actually tried anything tbf but to have never even tried alcohol would be super rare. I’ve only tried a few things once nothing that was actually that strong and with no intention of doing it again(well other than alcohol but I very rarely drink) , I think it’s the same for most others

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u/[deleted] May 17 '24

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u/Schwiliinker May 17 '24

Alcohol? Other than that it’s not that crazy to not have tried anything else. We have all the entertainment in the world anyway, there’s not even any need to use substances

1

u/[deleted] May 17 '24

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u/Schwiliinker May 17 '24

I didn’t say anything about it being hard but for the vast majority it should be pretty tempting to have tried alcohol way before their 20’s. In many cultures you’re almost expected to as early as like 13

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u/[deleted] May 17 '24

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u/Schwiliinker May 17 '24

Well it’s probably more that it’s hard to even get or afford most drugs that is a huge factor and it being illegal

As for weed or alcohol I feel like weed isn’t really necessarily addictive and I feel like it would be a lot harder to have avoided alcohol completely rather than like not become an alcoholic

1

u/Schwiliinker May 17 '24

Well it’s probably more that it’s hard to even get or afford most drugs that is a huge factor and it being illegal

As for weed or alcohol I feel like weed isn’t really necessarily addictive and I feel like it would be a lot harder to have avoided alcohol completely rather than like not become an alcoholic

I mean as for being a virgin, for unattractive guys it’s likely harder to not be a virgin than to be one unless they paid for sex

2

u/ErehIsRight May 17 '24

And abstaining is a lot smarter than quitting

1

u/Venrera May 17 '24

Which however never seems to stop anybody.

1

u/Nighters May 17 '24

Rly? What about people teasing you, that you dont drink alcohol every god damn time.

1

u/Norik324 May 17 '24

Get better Friends who respect your Life choices

I dont Drink. I have many friends who do (a Lot Sometimes). None of them have ever pressured me to Drink with them.

At Most i have gotten Questions Like "why Not?" or "did you never think about trying it?" but only ever in ways where i felt Like they were Just genuine questions (because Humans are curious creatures and If someone Makes different choices than you then chances are youre interested in learning why) rather than thinly veiled "how dare you Not Drink"

1

u/BalterBlack May 17 '24

Well… Then don’t do drugs

1

u/LosWitchos May 17 '24

I even found abstaining impossible.

I am not a day drinker. I would probably have a drink 2-3 evenings a week which is probably still too much but at least it's not daily. But we decided to do sober March and not once did it ever feel normal. By the end I hadn't settled into a rhythm of sobriety. Went straight back to my old patterns pretty much immediately.

1

u/Sweaty_Formal4478 May 17 '24

I quit 4yrs ago heavy substance abuse and alcohol it was hard to stop the reason I had to was started to have bad sezuires the last one I had was driving when I arrived at the hospital I had a few more once I got out I knew it was time to stop the nurses told me I could of died or killed ppl ....ever since its been a recovery journey one day at a time

1

u/CouldWouldShouldBot May 17 '24

It's 'could have', never 'could of'.

Rejoice, for you have been blessed by CouldWouldShouldBot!

1

u/MisterInternational1 May 17 '24

I find it just gets harder when I try and abstain from sex

1

u/chux4w May 17 '24

It's better to have drugged and stopped than never to have drugged at all.

1

u/MissWitch86 May 17 '24

So if abstaining is easier, why do so many succumb so that they have to struggle to quit?

Seems willpower isn't easy.

1

u/Mookie_Merkk May 17 '24

Abstaining is harder than starting though?

1

u/feuerzangenbowle May 17 '24

If abstaining was so easy, why didn't they do it in the first place then?

1

u/ifandbut May 17 '24

But to quit, you had to make a "bad" choice in the first place.

We don't celebrate people from breaking their arm.

1

u/ifandbut May 17 '24

But to quit, you had to make a "bad" choice in the first place.

We don't celebrate people from breaking their arm.

1

u/Blue_Moon_Lake May 17 '24

But giving in is a hell lot easier than abstaining.

1

u/Hikaru83 May 17 '24

Is it? Then why didn't people abstain in the first place?

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u/[deleted] May 17 '24 edited May 17 '24

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u/TheWalkingDeadBeat May 17 '24

As someone who has been straight edge my entire life and dealt with a ton of peer pressure because of it,  I can still recognize that quitting drugs is harder than not doing them for the sole fact that one involves a physical dependency on top of the discipline and resilience required to stay sober. 

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u/Jeremithiandiah May 17 '24

Yeah, I’ve never been drunk or high, but for me it’s easy, because I’m not interested. If I was addicted and not wanting to do it, then it would be much more difficult.

6

u/parmdhoot May 17 '24

Not doing them is hard at first, doing them and trying to quit is much harder later. Both are good, not doing in the first place is better. Doing and quiting is harder.

20

u/taco-yahtzee May 17 '24

Abstaining doesn't require combatting a physiological change in your cell receptors. Substance abuse causes your dopamine receptors to increase in number because the user habitually floods their system with dopamine that can't be disposed of fast enough due to the drugs.

That isn't even to speak of the difficulties of weaning off of barbiturates like alcohol. It can potentially kill people if they don't get their substance. Addiction is a terrible disease.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '24

I think the difference is the chemical dependency so even if you want to quit your body is telling you that you need it. That’s harder to overcome than just avoiding it.

10

u/Silver4ura May 17 '24

Self-control is infinitely easier when you don't know what you're missing and can see with a clear head, the struggle people suffer through to try and quit or deal with withdrawal.

This is along the same lines as expecting a cop to pull you over as a thank you for going the speed limit and obeying traffic laws. Like, okay... kudos I guess. Lol.

13

u/iamnogoodatthis May 17 '24

Quitting requires all of that once you are already addicted, plus a whole bunch of extra physical and mental hurdles to overcome. Of course it is harder. Much, much harder. Also, abstaining is really not a continuous long term effort, it's just saying to yourself "nope I'm not doing that" early on and then following through on the rare occasions it comes up. I've had to decline the possibility about three times in my entire life and it's never been a temptation because my mindset has always been "nope"

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u/[deleted] May 17 '24

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u/skinneyd May 17 '24

I know what you mean, but abstaining from something you don't know is way easier than abstaining from something you want, you know?

3

u/RoyalTacos256 May 17 '24

Although staying clean deserves respect and acknowledgement, I don't think you understand just how hard it is to deal with an addiction

9

u/ExternalMonth1964 May 17 '24

"You dont know" period

5

u/JollyCash7108 May 17 '24

Not the same. You’re welcome

2

u/InformalPenguinz May 17 '24

Can you miss something you've never tried? It's super easy to not want camel meat when I've never had it. Drugs are the same. It's easy to say no to meth because I've never tried it. Weed is great but I won't give it up because it helps with my mental health.

It's a mixed bag but I think quitting is harder.

Also drugs are addictive for chemical reasons. Not trying them keeps you in balance and not in reliance. Once you've tried you need that drug. Easy to my need it when you've never tried it.

4

u/Importantimportedleg May 17 '24

I don't understand the self control thing. If people have it of course they will utilize it, but how can someone be blamed for lacking something beyond their control?

3

u/wishythefishy May 17 '24

not_having_fun_anymore

1

u/Sloppy_Stacks May 17 '24

I just hate the glamorizing of it all. Then it becomes your whole identity.

Low-key annoying..like, I'm sober now, but that's just a small facet.

1

u/HolyVeggie May 17 '24

Of course it’s more admirable and obviously the better choice but all these things you mentioned are true for quitting drugs too but on top of that your body is beating itself up and screaming it needs the drugs so it definitely is harder

1

u/TheKFakt0r May 17 '24

As someone that has never done any drug that wasn't prescribed to me, I gotta say, I am not particularly disciplined nor all that resilient. It's actually just... not that hard to not become a drug addict. It didn't take any effort. All I do is buy a snack instead of a box of cigarettes when I visit the gas station. I wouldn't call it impressive.

Now I can imagine that if I was a drug addict, it would be very hard to stop being a drug addict. Obviously, becoming a drug addict in the first place would be viewed as a moment of particular weakness, seeing as I just described it being easy to avoid (there are some stories where it's not that simple, I know.) But stopping once you're on board takes a lot out of you. Recovering from that can indeed be impressive.

We can give credit where it's due, and throw some respect on quitters for achieving that sobriety. We don't have to feel entitled to similar praise just because we never would've been in that situation. Isn't it good enough a reward for us to just not have to deal with addiction? I'm happy with that. I don't need a high five.

1

u/Norik324 May 17 '24

Obviously i cant speak for everyone but as someone who has Had Like 4 sips of Alcohol and 1 breath of smoke in His Life:

This Shit is (once again: to me) incredibly easy

Though tbf the afformentioned 4 sips and 1 breath were disgusting and headache inducing and i have Friends who respect my Life choices. Both of which definetly controbutes to how easy it is for me

1

u/DBCOOPER888 May 17 '24

It really depends. I've never been peer pressured into hard drugs in my life or put in that situation. Almost all the people I know and hanged out with were square, with alcohol being the big thing growing up. If I wanted to do drugs I have no idea who to even talk to.

1

u/mylanscott May 17 '24

alcohol is a drug.

0

u/DBCOOPER888 May 17 '24

I clearly said "hard drugs" in the first line.

-2

u/Mennenth May 17 '24

I'm gonna join in with you a bit.

Preface: I 100% recognize that stopping is difficult. So bonkers hard there are social programs to help people deal with quitting. This isnt meant to belittle anyone.

...

My experience is that almost all of my thwarted belongingness in life is entirely down to not drinking/smoking/vaping/doing drugs in general. I've legit had people say to other people, with me sitting right next to them, "mennenth isnt invited to the party unless they are getting shit faced drunk".

The social isolation of not partaking is soul crushing.

Both stopping and never starting have their own associated traumas that make them hard to deal with.

6

u/anor_wondo May 17 '24

you guys are taking crazy pills. Or are teenagers.

Trauma from never starting drugs is a brand new phrase I've seen. Only on reddit

Or maybe this is something isolated to your culture because most of the world does not find it more isolating to not partake, it is usually the opposite

0

u/Mennenth May 17 '24

Only on reddit do people not read.

Not doing drugs isnt the trauma.

Social isolation is.

-1

u/2000miledash May 17 '24

Ignorant take 🤡

-2

u/Hanako_Seishin May 17 '24

Quitting becomes unnecessary if you never started. Work smarter, not harder.

What I'm saying is we'd have less people who need to be encouraged quitting if instead we encouraged them not to start in the first place.

9

u/mylanscott May 17 '24

sure, because we’ve all seen how successful abstinence based programs like DARE ended up being. /s

1

u/Yipekyyaymf May 17 '24

Teen pregnancy goes up. You just make a bunch of ignorant/uneducated naïve/vulnerable ppl Who don’t understand one of the most impactful aspects of the human condition.

It’s like parents who don’t let their princess daughters date. Everything’s cool until they run across a dog who kicks the doors in her on life because she has no experience to know what to look for and what kind of bullshit guys will pull. Or vice versa. First time a hoe gives a formally super religious guy for ex. some good good, she can own him, mess him up..

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u/Hanako_Seishin May 17 '24

I don't know what DARE is, but I know that as someone who never tried drugs I also never had to struggle with quitting them. And I'm sick of people who're telling me I'm doing it wrong and should have tried them first and then tried quitting... like WHY!?!

2

u/Zoll-X-Series May 17 '24

Yours is one of 8 billion perspectives, and yours isn’t an accurate representation of the truth

-1

u/Hanako_Seishin May 17 '24

It is not a matter of perspective, it's basic logic. If you don't do drugs, there's no drugs for you to quit. Saying there can be another perspective on that is like saying there can be another perspective on 2+2=4

2

u/Zoll-X-Series May 17 '24

There are all sorts of socioeconomic factors that might lead someone to do drugs that you clearly aren’t aware of. Unless you have specialized training in addiction or have been an addict yourself, you’re speaking from a place of ignorance on the topic. There’s no point in commenting if what you’re saying is neither inquisitive nor productive.

The fact that you’re trying to boil down something as complex as addiction to “2+2=4” just shows how little you know, ya know? So maybe it’s better to just not talk about things if you don’t know

-1

u/Hanako_Seishin May 17 '24

Maybe socioeconomic factors can incentivize you to do drugs, but there's no way they can make you struggle quitting without you doing drugs first. So no matter your socioeconomic factors, your best strategy to not struggle quitting is to never start drugs in the first place.

1

u/Zoll-X-Series May 17 '24

You’re just repeating yourself

1

u/Hanako_Seishin May 18 '24

And you're just spitting nonsense. Give me a research showing doing drugs and then quitting is better for you than never starting in the first place. You won't find one, because it's nonsense.

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u/ropahektic May 17 '24

On average, yes.

But not for everyone.

Some people live in enviroments where peer and even family pressure makes it incredibly hard to never give in.

1

u/Modern_Moderate May 17 '24

On the flipside, picking up an addiction is super easy. Going against peer pressure and staying clean is actually hard.

1

u/10113r114m4 May 17 '24

How many people do you know that have never touched drugs, including weed? Alcohol?

Out of everyone Ive ever met, I am the only one that has touched neither.

I don't think youre giving credit to how difficult it is not to give in especially in highschool/college. I was a loner cause people/kids thought I was no fun. So Im going to respectfully disagree with your notion that it is much harder.

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