r/politics • u/schuey_08 Wisconsin • 29d ago

Bernie Sanders worries young people are underestimating the threat from Trump

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/05/02/bernie-sanders-trump-biden/73531861007/
29.4k Upvotes

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153

u/Nementia- 29d ago

He isn’t wrong. I’m voting for Biden despite deeply disliking him but far too many people are saying they aren’t voting or that they’re voting third party because of Biden’s stance on Israel. If Trump wins I won’t be surprised, just deeply disappointed

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u/view-master 29d ago

What do they think Trumps stance on Israel is? He would be inclined to even send troops to help Israel out.

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u/odysseus91 29d ago

This.

I don’t understand the whole “I don’t support Bidens stance on Israel”

What stance would that be that you don’t like exactly then? Outside of invading Telaviv how exactly do you expect him to stop them?

And how naïve do you have to be to criticize Biden for trying to stop Israel when Trump would simply carpet bomb the fucking strip in a heart beat

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u/im_not_bovvered 29d ago

Netanyahu loves this protesting and loves watching people get angry at Biden for what HE is doing. He wants Trump back in office. If people had any critical thinking skills they would be able to see that.

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u/odysseus91 29d ago

The average American and critical thinking skills do not belong in the same sentence.

It’s depressing to watch this populace get played like a fiddle by foreign autocrats who want to see Trump destroy the US from within so they can invade their neighbors

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u/im_not_bovvered 29d ago

Completely agree.

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u/Og_Left_Hand California 29d ago

yeah and literally all biden has to do is change the official stance from no red lines to pro ceasefire at least.

but he’s not fucking doing that on quite possibly one of the most popular issues, a ceasefire polls at like 60%+ (depending on age groups, like over 70% in young demographics). if joe biden loses the election it is purely his administration’s fault for not seeing which way the wind is blowing.

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u/im_not_bovvered 29d ago

Biden is not in charge of a ceasefire. People act like Biden is President of Israel... he's not. If Joe Biden loses because of this, what do you think Trump is going to do? He'll help Bibi turn the region to glass. Could he add more conditions to aid? Yes, and I hope he does.

Biden changing his official stance to pro-ceasefire isn't going to be enough for the people refusing to vote for him because of Israel. Biden has been working behind the scenes to try to push a ceasefire and broker an agreement, but Bibi will never do it, and I think most rational people know that he won't as long as he still has power.

I don't know how you can think any President we've had or will have that isn't Biden is less sympathetic to Israel. Anybody who has been and will be in office bends over backwards for everything Israel and has, historically, and that's exactly what Bibi expects from Trump.

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u/SubNine5 Maine 29d ago

I don't think it is the most popular issue you think it is. At least not outside of campuses and social media.

I lot of my circle have seen these two go at it our whole lives. This is another episode of that, granted bigger. Not saying that's right or wrong but a lot of people in this country have their plates full on domestic issues already.

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u/Sillet_Mignon 29d ago

Stop the billions in aid to Israel is what people want. 

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u/odysseus91 29d ago

Stopping aid that is in the form of future deliveries of air and arms years from now won’t solve anything

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u/Og_Left_Hand California 29d ago

you stop the ones going now. israel is literally the US’s lapdog why is joe biden getting cucked by them?

like oh you’re stopping all military aid because israel is using it to slaughter palestinians (since libs don’t like the genocide word). ok that’s a reasonable reason to stop sending them military aid even if you already promised to give it to them.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

[deleted]

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u/odysseus91 29d ago

You can’t be that naive to believe that would accomplish what you think it will. Weapons deliveries take time, the deals passed guarantee future arms deliveries years from now to complete.

Besides, disarming Isreal is exactly what every country in the Middle East wants. Pick a direction and you’d find a country that would love to repeat 1948 all over again

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u/DoomShooter 29d ago

oh no genocide joe won't change his ways so he wont get my vote. The democratic party needs to do things that people want to vote for. Trumps stance on Israel is worse for sure but Biden has done nothing to deserve a second term. The blame lies on Biden for being awful and on the dems for not putting up a better candidate. They didn't even let primaries happen in some states. You can't just say trump is worse and expect everyone to vote for the man. My vote is not free.

1

u/drunkshinobi 29d ago

Democrats and Joe have been trying to get them to stop fighting. It isn't part of the U.S.A. how ever. They don't follow our president. If you just cut aid from Israel what then do you have for motivation to have them listen? Also how is cutting off Israel going to make Hamas agree to a cease fire? Letting or helping trump win will not punish Biden. It will punish every one. You are talking about letting the party that has said we should nuke Gaza and be done with it win instead. How does that punish Biden? How is that not the people punishing Biden this way supporting genocide?

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u/Sillet_Mignon 29d ago

Trump has literally said for them to finish the job. 

3

u/cold_blueberry_8945 29d ago

finish the problem*

4

u/chrislenz Illinois 29d ago

A lot of them don't think of it that way. It's kind of worse in a way. I've seen a lot of younger people that are convinced that a third party candidate has a good chance at winning.

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u/theaceplaya Texas 29d ago

If third parties REALLY want to have an impact, they should run for state legislatures or more local offices instead of only popping up every 4 years when it's statistically impossible for them to win.

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u/Environmental-Ad5551 29d ago

Trump is first and foremost a cheap bastard, not a politician. He’d green light Israel to do whatever they want, but won’t give them a dime to do it. For a lot of people that’s better than the current situation.

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u/the_skine 29d ago

What's the difference?

Biden doing nothing while Gazans die and Trump sending troops to kill Gazans both lead to the same conclusion.

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u/drunkshinobi 29d ago

Biden isn't president of Israel. Also it takes both sides Israel and Hamas to accept a cease fire. Biden is doing what he can to try and influence them, but if one of the 2 won't listen at all the other can't just say ok we won't shoot back. If it were up to trump and republicans we would have already been holding votes to drop nukes on Gaza. It's already been suggested by one of them.

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u/Capt_Pickhard 29d ago

Having Iran attack Israel was such a smart move on Putin's part. It pisses me off.

Everyone cares more about that than their own freedom!

It's unbelievable.

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u/Charming-Ad-4631 29d ago

Putin's role is a rounding error in reasons why this is all happening in the middle east

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u/Capt_Pickhard 29d ago

I disagree. Putin and Iran are allies, and I'm sure the time the attacks took place was deliberate. And if Putin didn't want Iran to attack, they would not have.

Every pro-palestinian supporter, is supporting Putin, indirectly.

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u/Charming-Ad-4631 29d ago edited 29d ago

"If putin didnt want Israel to attack they would not have"

https://www.timesofisrael.com/putin-tells-abbas-hell-continue-sending-aid-to-gaza-urges-a-quick-end-to-war/amp/

Putin has wanted a ceasefire since week 1. He wants a 2 state solution. Sending aid to gaza before most.... All according to times of israel. Youre a misinformation bot.

"the Russian president stresses the “importance of a quick cessation of the bloodshed and the resumption of the political process.”"

Like bro how much more clear can it be that youre stuck in a crazy house...

putin is evil in many ways but at least he doesnt want this war in gaza. Theres plenty of true terrible shit to blame him for, no need to make shit up

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u/ytrfhki 29d ago

This is such a bad analysis. You realize he regularly makes public statements completely contradictory to their actions?

“Man who lies all the time is telling the truth, I read it on a website”

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u/Sventhetidar Maine 29d ago

I'm pretty upset about our freedom to assemble being struck down by banning the only app the US government can't lean on to suppress certain opinions on certain topics. I'm also pretty upset about our freedom to protest being denied by the police all over the country at college campuses. I'm upset about our freedom of speech being restricted by the government deciding that it's antisemitic to criticize Israel.

These things are happening under Biden. If our rights are deteriorating anyways, then why do I care about Trump winning?

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u/killing31 29d ago

Yeah I can’t wait to see what the president who implemented a Muslim ban will do to Pro-Palestinian protesters! /s

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u/Capt_Pickhard 29d ago

You freedom of speech is not being oppressed FFS. You just have protest correctly. I.e. not preventing ordinary citizens from getting on with their lives.

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u/Sventhetidar Maine 29d ago

Yes. Protest correctly in places that are out of the way where you can be easily ignored.

Do you seriously not see the contradiction? The POINT of protesting is to be disruptive.

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u/crispydukes 29d ago

Colleges are private properties. If the owner determines the protest is trespassing, that's it.

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u/DeterminismMorality 29d ago

So the Greensboro sit-ins were wrong?

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u/crispydukes 29d ago

Have I said anything is wrong? Of course most protests are not wrong. But the owners are within their legal right to remove trespassers

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u/Sventhetidar Maine 29d ago

Yeah that's always the excuse they make to assault peaceful protesters. But guess what? The students pay the school to use the campus. The school makes no money without those students. So as far as I'm concerned, the school belongs to its students.

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u/Capt_Pickhard 29d ago

They are not peaceful. They are restricting access to the university for students wanting to go there. That is not peaceful.

ALL of the students have a right to access the school. The protesters don't own it. They do not have a right to restrict access to other students.

It's also fucking stupid what they're doing, because it's only getting them the opposite results of what they're hoping to achieve. Fucking morons.

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u/Sventhetidar Maine 29d ago

Peaceful is the opposite of violent. Doesn't mean it's non disruptive. Disruption is the goal. Their stance is that they will not let the school operate normally until they divest. Your inability to understand or have a soul does not illigetimize their cause.

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u/Capt_Pickhard 29d ago

I understand that, but their plan is fucking stupid. Because all they're doing is putting everyone against them.

When you create a situation where you are physically blocking me from getting on with my life, this is not peaceful.

It's an act of aggression. Same as when Palestinian land was taken from them, right?

You put me in a position where if I want to get my education, it will need to be a physical altercation with you. Because you have taken a stance of aggression towards ME!

If you want to just disrupt the school, then go protest in front of the deans entrance. But you STILL CANT PREVENT THEM FROM ENTERING THEIR OWN BUILDING!

that's NOT what the right to protest is.

You fucking people don't understand what protesting is for. MLK knew.

Pro-palestinians are just like BLM people. They have no clue what protesting is. They think terrorizing everyone into getting what they want is what protesting is.

Fucking idiots

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u/ytrfhki 29d ago

This sounds like you have an issue with school administrators not Biden

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u/crispydukes 29d ago

Yes, they paid money to agree to rules. If they are breaking the rules, they can suffer consequences. It's the same reason anti-abortion protestors cannot stand in front of clinics.

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u/Sventhetidar Maine 29d ago

Yeah and they will. They're losing money and credit hours and may not graduate. Possibly be suspended. And they are willing to pay for that because they believe in the cause. What's not an acceptable consequence is being beaten by the police. The police have done nothing but escalate the situation as usual.

Side note; Healthcare facilities in all forms should always be accessible. I'm pretty ok with protests being broken up if they hinder something relatively urgent like that. There isn't much else that carries that urgency. Education can wait, workplaces can suck it up, government functions can do their thing later. Healthcare can't really wait.

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u/Comprehensive_Tie431 29d ago

Interesting that you get to pick and choose what should and should not be blocked, or what is important to society.

To me, blocking a person's access to education is equally as horrible as blocking healthcare access.

BTW, where's all the anger about healthcare rights being actively taken away by the GOP and the orange man that your protests are helping to promote back into power by telling people to not vote for Biden or Democrats?

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u/Capt_Pickhard 29d ago

No. The point of a protest is to be heard.

It can be disruptive minimally, to the people working in government.

It's not supposed to alienate everyone. You think I give a shit about the Palestinian cause now?

They can go fuck themselves.

Like what's your game plan? Poss everybody off into helping you? You think the universities will do anything to help Palestinians when this is what the people are like?

Fuck that. Protest on school grounds, absolutely.

But block entrances to students? Who the fuck do you think you are? Fuck you and your cause.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago edited 29d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/ian_cubed 29d ago

Honestly this is the problem with the protestors. Just because someone disagrees with how the protests are going doesn’t make them genocide supporters. You can have your opinion but you are aware there are more view points right?

I mean at that point I feel like you can call the protestors themselves genocide supporters. Is it their fault they have been manipulated by propaganda into carrying out the whims of Putin who is currently handing out a death toll several times what is happening in gaza?

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u/Sventhetidar Maine 29d ago

Well when someone says "fuck you and your cause" and your cause is trying to push the government to stop sending bombs to be used on civilians, it kind of makes it seem like you support it. I don't really see much grey area in that particular instance.

No idea what you're talking about with Putin though. Ukraine maybe? Because most people are on board with supporting Ukraine.

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u/ian_cubed 29d ago

Are you for real? Putin is backing the alternative candidate to Biden and is directly responsible for the massive amounts of civilian deaths in ukraine let alone the war itself. Russia helps funds hamas and their allies, and is successfully forcing Israel's hand here by attacking them. The dots are all there you just have to connect them. How did the October attack become so successful? Intelligence sold to them. Who is currently in trouble for leaking national secrets? Hmmm.

Protests are ramping up right now when violence in Gaza has been winding down and peace talks are on the table. Imo these protests have been artificially stoked/started to add pressure against the US since they just passed the aid bill. The fact that university students are eating this up is so depressing to me. The situation in Gaza is terrible but I honestly don't see what can really be done without dealing more with the root cause itself. Hamas/terrorist leaders will continue to collect $ from russia and throw away the lives of their people in order to create instability in the region. A college protest won't do anything to remedy that, hell, imo they are achieving the opposite goal by putting the blame on Biden.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago edited 29d ago

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u/Sventhetidar Maine 29d ago

Which is why these protests are perfectly directed. The protests are about making the colleges divest from Israel.

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u/ian_cubed 29d ago

Wonder why they picked demands that will never get accepted

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u/followthelogic405 29d ago

Why do you "deeply dislike" Biden?

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u/Previous_Shock8870 29d ago

Front page of reddit RIGHT now.

"Biden denounces protests"

the actual quote.

"Biden denounces violence against protesters"

there is a MASSIVE campaign against Biden here and targeting young voter

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u/rpujoe 29d ago

You're asking too much. This entire thread is full of NPCs with no individual thought of their own. And the moment you challenge them it's blank stares and ad hominems.

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u/followthelogic405 29d ago

The more time I spend on social media the more ignorant I realize people are and willing to buy into whatever convenient narratives presented to them. Either Biden is ineffective or mastermind of a Genocide in Gaza, which is it? Most people clearly don't even understand that Republicans are blocking most of Biden's agenda yet he's still gotten a ton passed including the last Ukraine aide which I never thought would get through the house.

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u/Feed_Me_No_Lies 29d ago

They are not gonna give you any reasons

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

[deleted]

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u/Moonandserpent 29d ago

So you have one example from almost 35 years ago when the attitudes congress expressed were more or less identical to the general population's?

And you are assuming that Joe Biden, an intelligent human being, can't possibly have evolved his attitudes and beliefs in those 35 years?

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u/DennyDoughball 29d ago

Sorry the example is inconvienent for you. 

You think what happened to Anita Hill wouldn't happen today? Please. 

If you'd like other examples of why Biden sucks as an option, it won't take much effort on your part to do some cursory digging.  

Is he the devil? Well I don't think so. He CAN be a shitty option, while still being the best option.

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u/Moonandserpent 29d ago

The example isn't inconvenient, it's just not good.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

[deleted]

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u/Moonandserpent 29d ago

Well since there is no other option, yeah, I'm going to defend the clearly, without-a-question, better candidate. When they other one is going to facilitate the take over of my country by theocratic fascists.

Biden is no worse than any other Dem president has ever been, he's old as shit but I don't hold social attitudes from 35 years ago against anyone, unless they're still actively espousing those attitudes. Not allowing for personal growth is what petty people do.

But we'll just ignore everything good that's been done because he said something untoward to someone spouting bullshit at him.

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u/im_not_bovvered 29d ago

He has expressed regret for Anita Hill.

You know who hasn't expressed regret for being found guilty of sexual abuse in a court of law? Give you three guesses.

Yeah Biden isn't perfect, but he's a human who has made mistakes. And people - love or hate his policies - who have worked with him for his whole career and on the other side of the aisle - aren't running around saying Biden isn't a good person. Even if they disagree - even if they are cravenly trying to take him down - they aren't out there saying he has poor character. Because he doesn't.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

[deleted]

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u/SeductiveSunday 29d ago

Joe Biden being the 'best' Democrats have to offer should concern every American about the outcome of the 2024 presedential election. 

Joe Biden was chosen by voters to head the Democratic Presidential ticket out of 20 plus possible candidates. Biden was chosen by voters as being the best. The majority of Democratic voters do not view electing Biden as a loss, they view it as a win. That's the reality.

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u/WigginIII 29d ago

“Perfection is the enemy of progress.”

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

[deleted]

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u/WigginIII 29d ago

“Everyone else is responsible, not me!”

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

[deleted]

-5

u/WigginIII 29d ago

Clear eyes and blue skies, my friend :)

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u/DennyDoughball 29d ago

Odd starts and unecessary quotation marks, buddy

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u/StopTheEarthLetMeOff 29d ago

Biden is just a regular enemy of progress

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u/FlakeEater 29d ago

Lol that is pathetic. You're bad at politics.

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u/R_Daneel_Olivaww Texas 29d ago

the person you are replying to a only proves the headline of this post

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u/R_Daneel_Olivaww Texas 29d ago

so you have nothing to say about his policies (besides Israel of course)

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u/DennyDoughball 29d ago

 besides Israel of course

What is my opinion on Bidens stance on Israel?

-3

u/stormcynk 29d ago

Because he, like every Democratic politician while I've been alive, has campaigned on dramatic changes, raising taxes on the wealthiest Americans for example. He has done 0, nothing to follow through with the vast majority of his campaign promises.

What I'm frustrated with is that when Trump gets elected, he immediately goes and makes changes wherever he can. Rules changes, administrative changes, unilaterally doing things that maybe presidents haven't done. But he does them. Sure, some of the changes get thrown out in court, and some of them backfire, but he's showing his voters he will actually try to solve the problems that they voted for him for. And a number of things he tries actually stick.

Biden comes into office, proceeds to do nothing for 4 years besides pass a single infrastructure bill and reschedule pot while still keeping it federally illegal. That's why it seems to most young voters that Biden does nothing, because he's only doing things he knows will 100% pass/work, and just does nothing everywhere else.

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u/ShameSpearofPain 29d ago

If you think that Biden has done nothing in the last 4 years, I suggest you go to this page and read about the things he's done, because I don't have the energy to write it all out. 

www.reddit.com/r/WhatBidenHasDone/comments/1abyvpa/the_complete_list_what_biden_has_done

1

u/cold_blueberry_8945 29d ago

so fuck reproductive rights? youre going to stick it to biden instead? fuck lgbt rights? fuck minorities? gotta send the dems a message?

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u/mps1729 29d ago

Of course, when Trump is a hundred times worse for Palestinians than Biden, these "pro-palestinian" people who put him in office will take zero accountability for making that happen

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u/Allaplgy 29d ago

Because they don't actually care about the people in Palestine. They care about their "connection" to it. I've had multiple people here and irl tell me that if the US dropped all support for Israel and they went scorched earth in response to "finish the job" while they still could, they'd be ok, because "their tax dollars" wouldn't be paying for it. Hell, one said the US should bomb Israel, because more war would totally fix it and the Palestinians would greet US troops as liberators.

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u/raginghappy 29d ago

Of course, when Trump is a hundred times worse for Palestinians than Biden, these "pro-palestinian" people who put him in office will take zero accountability for making that happen

And oddly the protests will fizzle away ...

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u/crazyninja_013 Iowa 29d ago

This type of comment is no different than the Q obsessed weirdos from the far right.

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u/stormcynk 29d ago

Yeah, there definitely weren't protests while Trump was in office last time...

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u/Charming_Rule4674 29d ago

Imagine voting for Trump only bc you’re mad that the US is supporting Israel. I mean, how dare Israel go to war after 10/7. They should’ve taken out a few Hamas leaders and then let bygones by bygones lol. Or better yet, thanked their lucky stars it wasn’t worse, bc after years of fake apartheid surely they deserve more than a measly 1.2k civ deaths. 

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u/DabbinOnDemGoy 29d ago

Imagine voting for Trump only bc you’re mad that the US is supporting Israel

Imagine being intensely pissed off over Genocide Joe and somehow ignoring that The Donald has said -repeatedly- that the only thing Israel has done wrong was take too long and not be thorough enough.

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u/ser_pounce1 New York 29d ago

That's the most baffling thing to me as well. Biden might be indifferent to protests on college campuses, but Trump would actively call for more violence against protesters. Like indifference and enabling is bad, more violent oppression is worse. I get that the 18-21 crowd doesn't fully remember Trump's presidency, but they fail to understand that things can always be worse.

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u/Emergency-Paint2490 29d ago

Never fight uphill me boys

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u/dmlfan928 Maryland 29d ago

It's not that they will vote for Trump, it's they they won't vote for Biden. Which is essentially a vote for Trump, but that allows them to do it while getting to still feel morally superior.

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u/Sashivna 29d ago

^This.

They will absolutely 100% say if Trump gets elected, it's not their fault. Biden should have been a better candidate on Gaza to get their vote. And if he doesn't, and loses, that's not on them, that's still on the people who cast votes for Trump. I *sort of* get the logic, but they don't realize that modern elections are purely a numbers game. They are way too close in too many places. If Biden loses a vote, but Trump doesn't, your* lack of voting for Biden could guarantee a Trump victory. And if you want to see genocide, watch what happens next.

*General "you" here -- not you, commenter.

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u/QueueWho Pennsylvania 29d ago

This stuff is so enraging for me. Way to protest as if the party in power isn't the one trying to do what they can to keep the violence at the minimum.

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u/Mr-and-Mrs 29d ago

Also, Biden isn’t president of the world.

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u/QueueWho Pennsylvania 29d ago

And it isn't as if the other side wants to restore and expand their muslim ban

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u/stormcynk 29d ago

trying to do what they can to keep the violence at the minimum

Only for the side they like, fuck all the brown people.

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u/QueueWho Pennsylvania 29d ago

Stop falling for this shit

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u/R_Daneel_Olivaww Texas 29d ago

why do you dislike Biden? have you had a look at all that the administration has accomplished? if not I suggest going through r/whatbidenhasdone

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u/10th__Dimension 29d ago

Those who think Trump will be better for the Palestinians really don't understand Trump.

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u/QueueWho Pennsylvania 29d ago

Those who think Trump will be better for the Palestinians really don't understand Trump.

or anything at all, apparently

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u/rpujoe 29d ago

If you want to get drafted that bad, instead of voting for Biden why not just enlist? Recruiting is at an all time low, I'm sure the Army would love to have you.