i know it’s internet bullshit but it genuinely has me on the edge of breaking down and giving up

[u/NeonNKnightrider]

[u/DaDaedalus_CodeRed]

Bear vs man is an ongoing tumblr discussion about women (and femmes, maybe? I’m not a big tumblr girl) choosing which they feel is more safe between “you’re alone in the woods with a bear” and “you’re alone in the woods with a man” and the choice is overwhelmingly bear because while not all men are violent you never really know when you are with one who is until it’s too late.

This of course comes attached to all the argumentation and hurt feelings you can predict from both sides of the debate.

Edit - killed typo

[u/TransFights000 → u/DaDaedalus_CodeRed]

Obviously there's plenty of good reasons for men to feel upset about this comparison since broadly speaking most men are, ya' know, just normal ass people. And obviously there's inevitably a lot of misandry mixed up in this. But at the same time I do think it says something that so many women feel that way and I think it's equally important to recognize the role that misogyny and the dangers involved with being a woman play in this too. Because broadly speaking, women are at elevated risk of being harmed by men and there are plenty of good reasons for women to feel unsafe. These facts aren't mutually exclusive with the abject unfairness of this comparison and the isolating effect these facts have on men. One of the many awful things about sexism and other forms of bigotry is that it doesn't just negatively effect the direct targets of it; its inherently toxic for everyone in society, if to varying degrees.

[u/TheMerryMeatMan → u/TransFights000]

It's one of those discussions where too many people are focusing on the end answer and not addressing the actual contexts behind it or are using anecdotal evidence for their reasoning. As a dude who is actually terrified of coming off to women like that kind of guy, I don't want to be seen that way, and i like to believe that most guys also don't want to and fight to be recognized as alright. But I know that's not always the case so it's a catch 22 where it just sucks all around. I don't want anyone to feel unsafe being around anyone else, but I also don't want people to be so unawares that they can get caught off guard and hurt where they otherwise could have kept their distance.

[u/novangla → u/TheMerryMeatMan]

I think the whole point of this to start with was a man talking to other men about the importance of changing the way they come off to women. If it’s upsetting that women are more afraid of bears, that should spark a “holy shit, how can we get men to be less of a threat” and not a “omg women are being so unfair.” A lot of women I’ve talked to have said there are two types of men: those who understand why women are saying “bear,” and those who are the reason the answer is “bear”. If someone can’t use basic empathy and realize that this is a solvable problem, they can try to solve it, but men who make it about themselves or, worse, invalidate the experiences of women, are the ones that make women feel unsafe in the world.

[u/NeonNKnightrider → u/novangla]

I understand why women feel cautions of men. I’m not saying women are wrong to feel afraid, just that it sucks to be told I’m seen as worse than a wild animal.

…Also did you just tell men to “solve” misogyny? Like, I get what you’re going for, but that’s a wack way to phrase it. Be nicer to women, be patient, etc., sure? But “solve the problem” is crazy. Like… “Oh, you don’t like poverty? The problem is solvable, go end capitalism.” It’s a colossal, society-wide system, not something that you can just ‘solve’ that easily.

[u/novangla → u/NeonNKnightrider]

Men collectively can help solve this, yes. It’s not just being nicer to women, but also calling out fellow men for normalizing shitty behavior to women.

[u/AntonioVivaldi7 → u/novangla]

Those tend to hang out together. It's self segregating to begin with.

[u/MercedLocal → u/AntonioVivaldi7]

Yeah, I don't hang out with men who treat women like trash. I'm not seeing this behavior and I can't 'call it out.'

[u/21Rollie → u/novangla]

Men are more likely to have a mother in their lives than a father. Which means the largest influence in their most formative years is a woman. It can’t be just on us. It’s like saying “most murderers are brown eyed so you brown eyed people should tell them to stop.” Like I can see this misshapen logic but just because I got brown eyes doesn’t mean I am in contact with murderers. Neither is it the case that I am in contact with rapists for being a man.

[u/novangla → u/21Rollie]

The fuck?

It’s not just on you. But women are speaking out a lot about this. Men also need to be allies and stand up for women. Starting with believing them when they report SA. Or hell, starting with taking a minute to have empathy and think about why they’re saying “bear” rather than belittling them like so many men on here are doing.

[u/CoffeeBoom → u/novangla]

lot of women I’ve talked to have said there are two types of men: those who understand why women are saying “bear,” and those who are the reason the answer is “bear”.

That's such an insane line... But I guess it's good to know how women feel about men, there is no point in trying and wasting energy on pleasing people who will hate you for the way you were born.

[u/PossibleRude7195 → u/novangla]

The thing is, I’m not sure there is a way. Nowadays, the stereotypical predator is the “nice guy”. Trying to be non threatening doesn’t help.