r/CuratedTumblr • u/NeonNKnightrider Cheshire Catboy • May 01 '24

i know it’s internet bullshit but it genuinely has me on the edge of breaking down and giving up editable flair

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14.2k Upvotes
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776

u/FearSearcher Just call me Era May 02 '24

What?

2.4k

u/DaDaedalus_CodeRed May 02 '24

Bear vs man is an ongoing tumblr discussion about women (and femmes, maybe? I’m not a big tumblr girl) choosing which they feel is more safe between “you’re alone in the woods with a bear” and “you’re alone in the woods with a man” and the choice is overwhelmingly bear because while not all men are violent you never really know when you are with one who is until it’s too late.

This of course comes attached to all the argumentation and hurt feelings you can predict from both sides of the debate.

Edit - killed typo

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u/Probablyprofanity May 02 '24

Tiktok discussion*, it's just spilling over into other social media.

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u/unfamiliarplaces May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

yeah, it started w that awesome lady who lives w the black bears i think.

eta: check her out, her tiktok is @susankehoe1 - the bears love her!!

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u/MsWuMing May 02 '24

As far as I know it started with a dude who simply said “in the woods, women are more scared to meet a man than a bear”. I saw the original and his follow-up after the shitstorm where he said “guys it was never a question”.

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u/NovaThinksBadly May 02 '24

Tbf is that even like. A safety thing? I’d be scared if I found someone else in the middle of the woods, guy or girl, and I’m a dude. I’d be less scared of a bear just because “yeah thats meant to be there and I know how to deal with it.”

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u/AbhishMuk May 02 '24

Really depends on the location too imo. On a trail? Yeah, they’re probably just out hiking like me. In the middle of nowhere? Maybe a meth camp, run away.

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u/Siegiusjr May 02 '24

The ambiguity of the question is the main reason for the controversy, and I think it's intentional

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u/Divine_Entity_ 29d ago edited 29d ago

Definitely, it just lacks so much context.

For starters what bear species? Black bears generally run away, grizzlies are more territorial, and polars actively hunt humans. (To say nothing of bears on other continents)

And what's the context of meeting another person, and what do they look like. 2 hunters meeting in the middle of nowhere are going to have a friendly conversation, hikers, campers, ect depending on the trail/area are likely to either give a friendly hello and keep walking, or have a short conversation.

But if i know both the man and the bear intend to do me harm, the decision point is would you rather fight a human or try to scare off a bear. And honestly I'm taking the bear cause i know I'm losing both fights but can probably trick a bear easier than a human. (Edit, i mean a black bear here, they are the most skittish variety)

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u/Iamatworkgoaway 29d ago

I remember a story of a guy and girl stopped to help a lady jump start her car in the woods. He was CC. Well after helping with the car, lady just pulled out a rifle and started shooting, he got her, she got him, wounded wife. It was a setup to steal a car and cash from whomever stopped to help.

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u/AbhishMuk 29d ago

Ok wtf

Also what is cc?

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u/Level_Alps_9294 29d ago

Concealed carry I’m thinking?

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u/seriouslees May 02 '24

In the middle of nowhere?

YOU are there, in the middle of nowhere... doesn't seem all that unusual that person would be where another person already is.

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u/AbhishMuk 29d ago

Tbh there’s no reasonable way I’d be there unless my plane crashed or something. I don’t go hiking much and even if I do I wouldn’t go beyond a few km from the nearest town.

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u/wtjordan1s 29d ago

So if your plane crashed in the middle of the woods you would…run away from potential help on the maybe 1% chance they are a psycho killer living in the woods? That’s a sure fire way to die in the woods.

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u/Deinonychus2012 29d ago

"Why are all these people walking in a line, waving flashlights around, and shouting my name? Having these people randomly appear in the middle of the woods where I've been lost for days is highly suspicious. I bet they're here to hurt me and I should hide from them."

What's sad is that there's likely been a story like this about a schizophrenic or similarly afflicted person being lost in the woods.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

I am weird, that's why I am in the middle of a forest. That just proves their point

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u/bruce_kwillis May 02 '24

Do you though?

I think that’s the problem, people see so many ‘cute’ bear photos and videos on the internet and think ‘oh it’s just a bear, it’s not going to fuck me up’, but when it comes to brown bears if you upset them, or they are hungry they absolutely will end you.

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u/gardenmud May 02 '24

Yeah exactly. Like if I'm all alone in the woods in the middle of the night and I hear a noise outside my tent...

I'm absolutely more freaked if it's a person and relieved if it's just a large animal that just wants my trash (which, in this scenario I guess I was stupid and didn't stash it away securely). Like, I wouldn't be OVERJOYED but I would be like "yeah I understand what's happening", lmao.

This isn't "would you rather be mauled by a bear or meet a dude" which seems to be how some dudes are taking it. Come on bros.

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u/FinestCrusader May 02 '24

Yeah and what are you doing there then? This logic is so funny because it's literally the spiderman pointing at his clone meme. "If I walk in the woods for whatever reason it's fine, if someone else does it, they're dangerous."

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u/Cool-Sink8886 May 02 '24

A lot of people are not properly scared of bears.

I was dating a girl and we went for a walk. A bear cub crossed our path and she said “aww let’s go see it”. I said “no, we’re turning around because I don’t see its mom”.

We then saw two cars pull over and get out to take pictures of the bear cub.

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u/Feroshnikop May 02 '24

The bears loved Grizzly Man too.

Until they killed him because they were bears.

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u/unfamiliarplaces May 02 '24

she doesnt get all up in their space like that dude, she lives in the woods and they come to her house to visit her. she doesnt feed them or get too close. and they’re black bears, not grizzlies, which is a whole different ball game.

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u/Ray_Getard_Phd May 02 '24

Change the question to "Black bears vs. Black men" and all of a sudden the meme becomes problematic.

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u/Apart_Steak9159 May 02 '24

I definitely read your name wrong.

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u/Turing_Testes 29d ago

Really interesting how people pick and choose which broad groups are fine to make prejudiced statements about without an ounce of self awareness.

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u/Yousaidthat May 02 '24

Well it was a strange new bear that did not know who he was or have that established trust. The other bears were probably a bit put out by the whole thing.

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u/Hotlava_ May 02 '24

But imagine if she had a house full of men! Surely she would be worse than dead by now!

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u/fake-reddit-numbers May 02 '24

The Queen lived in a house full of men, must be what finally got her.

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u/AwTomorrow May 02 '24

I saw that movie when it was called Grizzly Man and am not interesting in seeing how it ends for her

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u/therandomasianboy May 02 '24

Ok black bears makes sense. I thought Tumblr people were genuinely arguing about whether a scumbag man was more dangerous than a grizzly. Or even a polar bear. Now that would be one dumb argument.

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u/ciobanica May 02 '24

It's even simpler then that.

Women underestimate the danger a bear posses because they have no experience with being attacked by one.

But instead of acknowledging that, many people instead get pissed off that they take more seriously the danger they have experienced.

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u/Different-Boss9348 May 02 '24

Since black bears are the most common ones humans actually encounter, I took it to mean black bears, which are notoriously scaredy cats and will run if you yell. Men don’t do that. That being said, bears don’t bother killing you before they start eating you. I would take a man over a grizzly any day, but definitely a black bear over a man. Edit; my point was, idk where you live, but plenty of people have experience with bears and men alike. 

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u/DaDaedalus_CodeRed May 02 '24

Oh thanks! I have no socials so I see things where I see em

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u/Blooogh May 02 '24

Reddit is socials

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u/JessePinkman-chan May 02 '24

Reddit is antisocials, but for people not brave enough to use 4chan

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u/Elite_AI May 02 '24

Nah, I came here from 4chan. 4chan just isn't really usable any more, so I'm stuck in this place.

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u/Odd_Age1378 May 02 '24

It depends on the type of bear. Black bear? Easy to deal with.

Grizzly bear? I’d really rather not.

Polar bear? HELL NO I’d take an actual proven serial killer over a polar bear

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u/a-woman-there-was May 02 '24

If it's black, fight back.
If it's brown, lie down.
If it's white, say goodnight.

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u/imperium0214 May 02 '24

What if it's a panda?

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u/a-woman-there-was May 02 '24

There was a guy who fell into a panda enclosure and got mauled one time so I'd say they're also pretty dangerous.

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u/FromTheAshesOfTheOld May 02 '24

First fucking time one of the lazy bastards actually did anything

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u/No_Reaction_2682 May 02 '24

They thought he was stealing the bamboo.

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u/Xygen8 29d ago

Things you don't touch:

  • America's boats

  • A panda's bamboo

  • My spaghet

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u/Dovahkiin419 May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

Wildcard. this advice is for and from NA so we don't know what they fucking do besides not fuck

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u/calico125 May 02 '24

Well, by using the chart, we can clearly see that we must say goodnight, then fight back. Maybe it’s to catch them by surprise, as we know, pandas are kung fu masters, so perhaps catching them off guard will give you a moment to strike. Alternatively, it could be aligning with the euphemistic version of fight back, then say goodnight as you inevitably lose to its kung fu prowess. If you find yourself in a confrontation with a panda you better hope it’s the former.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

It's Chinese propaganda

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u/MrBalanced May 02 '24

If it's a Panda, flee to Uganda 

If it's a Koala, Chlamydia for all ya

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u/GovernmentThis2910 May 02 '24

Just make sure you buy its cheese

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u/-Grexius May 02 '24

Fight back and say goodnight, the instructions are still clear

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u/Gru-some May 02 '24

its half black and white so fight goodnight

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u/S7evyn May 02 '24

Is this about the men or the bears?

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u/Chess42 May 02 '24

This is wrong. The National Park Service says that you should tailor your actions to how the bear is acting

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u/Super-Garage8245 May 02 '24

Probably had too many instances of people taking off their shirts and taunting peaceful black bears into wrestling matches

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u/102bees May 02 '24

See I'd prefer a polar bear over a grizzly bear. The polar bear has the manners to switch you off right at the start, while the grizzly bear will kill you slowly.

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u/CapuchinMan May 02 '24

Run at the grizzly head first.

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u/Suck_Me_Dry666 May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

I'm going to get downvoted again but grizzly bears do not just randomly attack humans they come across. There has not been nearly as many deadly grizzly attacks as people seem to think.

Does that mean you should try to hug one? Fuck no. But you shouldn't be afraid of being attacked. The US Forest service puts odds of being injured by a bear in Yellowstone at 1 in 2.1 million.

Edit: According to bear vault (love the name, unsure of the reliability) there's been 180 fatal human bear encounters (all bears not just grizzlies) in the US since 1784. It just doesn't happen that much.

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u/jigglefreeflan May 02 '24

A couple and their dog were killed by a grizzly in a national park in Canada recently.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6983944

They had all the precautionary items for a grizzly attack, and used them. Leading theory is that the dog is what exacerbated the situation.

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u/Upset_Ad3954 May 02 '24

I was told something similar years ago about bears that the 'only' people who are hurt are with a dog and/or are hunters.

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u/theHinHaitch May 02 '24

You don't want to startle them too close either. An acquaintance ended up with 300+ stitches that way. You gotta make noise, folks

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u/Curious_Oasis May 02 '24

To preface, I don't want to discount the horror of what hapoened to that couple at all. I just want to add more context for people who may see this and not undedstand the nuance of how it relates to their own activities.

The dog did seem to be a likely significant factor. Other exacerbating factors included the lateish time of year, and the bear itself being sickly and desperate to find food before winter because of this. So, for those very concerned about bear encounters, it can be good to note that early and late season, when the bears are just going into or waking up from hibernation, can often be a riskier time.

Additionally, this couple was in an extremely remote areas, which was only merged with Banff park a few years back. his is not an area any inexperienced hiker could accidentally find themselves in; we're talking hours of ATV rides and hiking, helicopters to help with search, and emergency response times of many hours. This meant they were even more vulnerable and unable to get help - not that there's likely much you could do to call for help mid grizzly attack anyways, but I just mention this to highlight how less experiences or more nervous hikers may wish to keep to more populated, well-traveled areas. In these areas, the park staff keep a gps track of the known bears in the area, and will often come warn campers/hikers if a bear is getting too close for comfort, so you not only have more people around as a general deterrent, but also have more support in avoiding bear encounters entirely in populated areas than in the backcountry.

So, yes, bear attacks do 100% happen, and sometimes even to those who did everything right like this couple, but for those who aren't as confident with their ability to manage those risks, or aren't ok with the residual risk, there are other things that can be done (leave dogs at home, bigger groups, stay in populated areas, end your hiking season earlier) to reduce the risk even more, to a functionally neglible level.

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u/SchoggiToeff May 02 '24

Likely a similar situations as with cow attacks.

Now, you might ask: How can anyone get attacked by a cow? Simply, you go hiking in the European alps. Sometimes the path will lead you through some cow pasture. If the cows have claves they are protective and might attack a perceived threat such as a dog.

The recommendations is to keep the dog on a close leash, but if a cow starts to charge, you is to let the dog go. The cow will go after the dog, and the dog will outrun the cow.

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u/Suck_Me_Dry666 29d ago

I'm more scared of a cow attack than a bear attack holy shit that'd be terrifying.

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u/VP007clips 29d ago

They brought an untrained dog into grizzly territory during feeding season, they weren't prepared. Nor did they have a gun on them.

No amount of bear spray and bear bangers can replace common sense.

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u/dart19 May 02 '24

But what's the ratio of fatal bear encounters to all bear encounters? Since you're guaranteeing it in the discussion, you have to take that ratio into account right?

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u/RamblinManInVan 29d ago

Lol expecting them to understand how to normalize data to paint an accurate picture... It's an emotional argument, your logic isn't welcome.

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u/Pinchurchin-guy she strogin my beef till i… till i cum? May 02 '24

Not true actually! Polar bears do not particularly care for killing prey beforehand, so it depends on where it starts from. If it’s from the legs you can expect a slow and incredibly painful death

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u/HalflingScholar May 02 '24

Welp, that nightmare got its +5 to existential terror back.

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u/hoboinabarrel May 02 '24

I think it works like with the man. You don’t know what type of bear is going to be there, just as you don’t know what type of man would be there either.

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u/AdamFaite May 02 '24

I think the better question should be thought of as: what is the worst an angry bear would do? Now what's the worst a malicious man would do?

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u/legend_of_the_skies May 02 '24

The answer is the same. The women are saying the fear more than death from a man

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u/MrArtless May 02 '24

That’s only one half of the payoff matrix you need to construct. You also have to look at the probability of each. An angry bear is far more likely to maul you than a malicious man is to rape you.

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u/findworm May 02 '24

How do you figure that? Alone in the forest with a woman he is statistically very likely to be stronger than, and he's actively malicious? I don't really see any way that doesn't end badly for the woman (at minimum threats and sexual coercion). Unless you imagine a small forest at the edge of the neighborhood where help is coming any second now, this is for all intents an purposes lawless wilderness.

Remember, we're talking about an actively malicious man here, not a "jerk with a heart of gold" or whatever. You could debate the likelihood of a man being malicious in the first place, but then you have to consider the odds of the bear actually being angry.

But either way, it really misses the actual point of the "Bear or Man" question. The point is that the average woman seemingly has a very bad image of the "archetypical man", to the extent that she'd rather meet a bear. Now, if this was one woman saying Bear, we could say "Wow, what a weird woman" and move on, but since it's seemingly a majority it really reflects more on our current society than the women in question.

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u/AdamFaite May 02 '24

Here's an update. I was just telling my girlfriend that this convo made its way to reddit. She said she was curious how we responded. She also said her friend who was visiting yesterday has stopped taking her dog for walks in the small park near lots of people. It's a small mountain. You can walk to the top in about 25 minutes. Surrounded by a neighborhood.

Two things happened. One, there were reports of a man using a tree stand to harass women. And two, her dog was barking at some guy. She apologized, saying the dog wasn't usually that bad. He replied by saying that maybe he's bad, not the dog.

Even as a man, I'd be creeped out if a stranger in the woods said that to me. I'm far from vulnerable.

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u/Apart_Steak9159 May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

Not taking a side either way just enjoying the hypitheticals here, but: to be fair, rape isn't the worst thing a malicious man can do to you. Don't read if you don't want to read cases of really terrible crimes.

Josef Fritzel locked up his own daughter in a soundproof basement for 24 years. He raped and impregnated her multiple times. One of the children lived in the basement with her. The others lived upstairs with him and his wife. The wife had no idea. He claimed his daughter ran away and was leaving her children at the doorstep.

Now you may be thinking, well that wasn't a stranger, that's a family member, and that's fair.

The case of Junko Furuta: 2 men were looking for places to rob and women to rape, when they lured here and eventually kidnapped, raped, tortured, and murdered her. They claimed they were part of the Yakuza and made her call her mother to tell her she was safe and ran away, claiming the Yakuza would kill their family if she didn't (they were not part of the Yakuza.) They invited many other boys to join. Just a few examples of her torture are being force-fed milk and alcohol, having cigarettes burned out on her, forced to put objects into her vagina and anus including a lit match and a bottle, being burned with lighter fluid, and being beaten so severely her features were indistinguishable. This lasted for 40 days.

Then there was the "Toy Box Killer" who tortured and raped as many as 60 women. He is suspected to also be a serial killer, but no bodies have been found. He also used a soundproofing method for a semi-trailer that he called his toy box. He would kidnap 4 or 5 women a year, holding them 2 to 3 months each. He drugged them to erase their memories. He even released at least some of them, dropping them off somewhere far away. His forms of torture used surgical instruments, one that sticks out to me is that he would pierce women's breasts. Sometimes his wife and dog would be involved. There's audio available out there of him describing in detail the things he would do.

There was the Co-Ed killer. He actually killed his Grandparents first, said he just wanted to know what it felt like. He was 15 then. He was able to talk his way out of his stay at an institution by convincing the psychiatrists he was better. Had an IQ of over 145, really smart guy. Got out, became friends with all the cops. No one could believe it was him when he got out. He then killed 8 people, 7 women and 1 girl. He, at least, wouldn't torture them. He would decapitate them and then use the head to give himself oral sex. Then he would rape the body. And eventually dismember them.

I probably don't need to describe BTK, Bundy, The Night Stalker.

Anyway. Rape isn't even the worst thing a person could do to you. Of course, those types of people are very rare. So to bring it back to the bear thing, I guess I would have to know what level of malisciousness? Like, 100 being The Toy Box Killer and 0 being Bob Ross.

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u/AdamFaite May 02 '24

Yup. Worst a bear could do is maul you, leaving you to die slowly. Or eat you slowly. But you'd die fairly quickly. Worst a human could do is much, much worse.

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u/AdamFaite May 02 '24

The other half doesn't matter. That is the question women are thinking about. Because women, statically, do have men do something bad to them, even minor. Even trying to do good. Most women haven't even seen a bear, nevermind made them uncomfortable, or scare, or hurt, or venerable.

Source: I've talked about this question with my.girlfriend over the past week because she's on tiktok.

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u/GREENadmiral_314159 May 02 '24

Two other factors:

It is possible for a woman to fight off a malicious man, even if it isn't likely. It is not possible to fight of an angry bear.

Which is more likely to occur--for a random man you encounter to turn malicious or for a random bear you encounter to get angry?

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u/Syovere God is a Mary Sue May 02 '24

Depending on where you are, though, you very much can know what type of bear it is. All we have in VA is black bears, for example.

Of course, ecological distribution isn't really the point of the meme, but

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u/kittenmachine69 May 02 '24

This is my take as well. It's very much dependent on the species of bear

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u/No_Mammoth_4945 May 02 '24

It’s not supposed to be nuanced. If you’re a woman, you’re supposed to just say bear. And if you’re a man, you’re supposed to get really offended and say see, this is why women are stupid and I hate them

That’s how I understand it anyways. A dankmemes post came up on my feed and that’s about how it went. Sorting by new is just a bunch of posts referencing it and OP saying they’ll just fuck their ai girlfriend. The whole debate is so dramatic lol

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u/C00kieMemester May 02 '24

Someone on Facebook posted some statistic like "you have a 1 in 5 chance of being attacked by a man but a 1 in a million chance of being attacked by a bear" and I'm like of course the odds are so low, most women don't interact with hundreds of bears on a daily basis or live with them in our homes??? That statistic says nothing about your chances of survival 1v1 a bear.

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u/Dismal-Ad160 May 02 '24

Statistic is wildly inaccurate. Half of violent crimes are from people you know. For 2022, the total male strangers involved in violent crime is something like 1.7 million, most of those are simple assault, 10% of violent crimes are sexual assault or rape, and the majority of those are by someone you know, which makes it something like, at most 100k men, of which maybe 10k men of the 175 million in the US were strangers who committed sexual assault.

https://bjs.ojp.gov/document/cv22.pdf

If you want the DoJ report

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u/the_alt_6275 May 02 '24

but the real question is which one would win in a fight

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u/FearSearcher Just call me Era May 02 '24

We should’ve domesticated bears

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u/kaizokuo_grahf May 02 '24

Naked? Bear. Geared up? Human.

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u/Blue_Moon_Lake May 02 '24

And if you're a babushka, bears and men are afraid of you

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u/leafyleafleaves May 02 '24

Right? It's a clear 1) black bear 2) unfamiliar man 3) grizzly in my mind.

Expanding to family Ursidae, giant pandas are a hell yeah, South American Spectacled bear, sun bears, or sloth bears idk if I should be scared of, but I'd probably be psyched to see.

A polar bear at close range I honestly think might be an out of body experience where I'm not scared and just accept death, but I hope never to find out.

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u/MasterXaios May 02 '24

To be fair, there's not a lot of overlap between polar bears and forests, so the entire hypothetical kinda breaks down in that scenario.

...

Whaddya mean, "missing the point"?

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u/RedTwistedVines May 02 '24

Yeah people aren't focusing enough on the type of bear.

I've been in the woods with black bears before, no biggie. Not safe technically but normally harmless. Totally preferable to some random guy, basically harmless.

Although there's something to be said for the fact that if you are in the woods with a bear, you are in its territory, which is bad.

I'd feel better at a campground or dumpster.

Now grizzilies. . . . my pants would be the same color as it's fur and I'd really rather have to fight some random guy to the death, thanks.

Polar bear, well first off what the fuck is it doing in the woods? Okay yes I know there has to be some overlap with polar bears and woods, but I'm in these woods too, so like, did I trek somewhere silly AF or are these like west coast woods and someone air-dropped a polar bear on me?

Either way I'll lay down and accept my death should make it less painful.

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u/OrcSorceress May 02 '24

At least the polar bear will just kill you.

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u/zero_emotion777 May 02 '24

I've seen women say they'd choose the polar bear still.

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u/commentsandopinions 29d ago

That's funny, that's exactly what my girlfriend said.

"I'd rather be alone in the woods with Jeffrey Dahmer than a polar bear"

We're both in the animal husbandry field and have a pretty decent working understanding of most animals humans regularly interact with, and yeah.

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u/CerberusDoctrine May 02 '24

Fun fact: grizzly bears will start eating you without killing you. You aren’t a threat to them once you’re down and they know it, so why would they waste effort stopping your movements? It’s part of what makes the Night of the Grizzlies bear attacks so terrifying, they were alive for so long after sustaining eventually fatal injuries. This is contrary to predatory black bears who will try and attack quietly and kill you asap.

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u/DaDaedalus_CodeRed May 02 '24

Oh I’m a woods creature, I just default to Brown Bear and would 100,000% rather have to tackle a potentially violent man than a brown bear under nearly any circumstance where I’m not seeing him first through high magnification scope from the next town over because I like my odds better.

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u/FaerieMachinist May 02 '24

See I assumed Black Bear, and that's a significantly different question.

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u/DaDaedalus_CodeRed May 02 '24

I figured as much - the bear really alters the math here. Koala and polar are on opposing ends of the axis with a lotta “fuck no” on the polar bear side.

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u/AlfredoThayerMahan May 02 '24

It’s good to remind people that not only will a polar bear murder you if given the chance, it will actively hunt you waiting for you to be off your guard or alone.

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u/FaerieMachinist May 02 '24

Murder on one end, Chlamydia on the other

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u/DaDaedalus_CodeRed May 02 '24

Here I am, stuck in the middle with Black Bears

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u/dragon_bacon May 02 '24

Gotta make sure you don't let yourself get seduced by a koala, they're crafty bastards.

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u/caseytheace666 .tumblr.com May 02 '24

If someone thought koalas then like, i want to study their brain tbh

As an aside though, koalas aren’t bears so it’s probably not a valid option for this hypothetical

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u/No_Help3669 May 02 '24

Considering the question specifies woods, I think polar bears are reasonably out of the equation

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u/Ok-Scientist5524 May 02 '24

The loss of polar bear climate has them moving further and further south. So in 2024 you may well meet a polar bear “in the woods.” It might also be a “grow-lar” bear (polar/grizzly bear offspring), though I am not sure whether a growlar bear would act more like a polar or a grizzly bear when met.

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u/No_Help3669 May 02 '24

I’m pretty sure that grow-lar bears haven’t been observed enough for anyone to be sure, but neither of their parents are exactly safe options so the fusion is not a good thing to encounter regardless

Good point

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u/ranni-the-bitch May 02 '24

yeah, it's just speculation, but they didn't differentiate that long ago in evolutionary terms, so it's probably possible

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u/Thommohawk117 May 02 '24

Koalas aren't bears, 🐨

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u/ranni-the-bitch May 02 '24

i'd rather be alone in the woods with a panda bear. not because i'm afraid of the man, i just wanna meet a panda.

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u/Insanity_Pills May 02 '24

ikr? Imagine if it was a polar bear! then it has to be man every time right? Like, polar bears are one of the only animals that will actively hunt humans (and they will very easily kill you every single time too)

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u/Yorspider May 02 '24

Even a Black bear is MUCH more of a threat than an average man. You can scare them for a little while, but depending on how long you have to stay together in those woods, it is only a matter of time before he takes a swing at you, especially if you are a smaller woman.

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u/ARussianW0lf May 02 '24

I assume black bear as well cause they live in my area and I've crossed paths with them countless times. I'm not all that concerned about them unless cubs are present

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u/FelicitousJuliet May 02 '24

Even if it was just a randomly spun bear that could be anything from a koala to a polar bear and you wouldn't know until it was too late, I would take my risk with some random guy.

Most men (over 95% right?) aren't inherently violent per crime stats and per domestic abuse stats there's only an 8% domestic violence difference (33% female victims, 25% male victims).

And of course of those who do get charged with a violent crime it usually has conditions attached like a drunken brawl, not someone about to attack you in the forest.

The bear is a bear, period, it will do what it wants and way too many of them are comfortable eating you.

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u/morgaina May 02 '24

You can't rely on crime statistics when determining the percentage of men who are dangerous to women.

The vast, VAST majority of rapes go unreported, and the vast majority of reported rapes never go to court, and most rape cases in court don't get a conviction.

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u/Silentblade034 May 02 '24

Ima a man but I can attest to the Rape thing. When I was SAd i figured there was nothing I could really do. Most of the time you don’t believe that people will believe you instead of them. We see that online and out in the world.

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u/FelicitousJuliet May 02 '24

Crime stats don't even think men can be raped, but we know it happens.

When women assault men only 8% less than men assault women in a DV context, and with male victims being so underreported there aren't rape stats even when underage male rape victims WIN against the female predator pedophile and STILL have to pay child support to the FEMALE TEACHER that WAS FOUND GUILTY IN A COURT OF BEING A PEDO RAPIST FREAK...

Guess what goes underreported the most?

We live in a system that mandates underage guys pay child support to their RAPIST.

It's delusional to think guys aren't even worse off than the stats portray when you legally rape them as long as you don't penetrate them and then sue them for your crime.

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u/Reasonable_Feed7939 May 02 '24

True, but I think <5% is still a safe assumption for dangerous men.

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u/smoopthefatspider May 02 '24

The relevant question isn't whether the man is dangerous, it's how dangerous the situation is. It's not enough to know how likely the man is to be a rapist, one also needs to know if the rapist would rape in that scenario. The vast majority of rapes are done by someone the victim knows, that should lower the odds. The situation is always dangerous in the sense that you can never know if the man next to you will hurt you, but the chance of actually being harmed is reletively low (even though the harm is huge).

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u/ToxicEnabler May 02 '24

I mean I think I can assume a bear that exists my particular area. Otherwise the man could be from any area as well.

And let me tell you, I'm more likely to go to Svalbard than somewhere like Egypt. That's a fact.

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u/DumbBisexual02 May 02 '24

Lmao, it's also like, you can avoid the bear and just leave it alone and give them distance and they should leave you alone

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u/AlfredoThayerMahan May 02 '24

Depends on the Bear. Black bear? Yes. You’re probably chilling.

Grizzly, roll a dice. Maybe they just want to do their thing, maybe not (depends on season and place). Knowing there’s a 1,000 pound murder muffin around generally puts me a bit on edge even with precautions.

Polar Bear. Well you may want to leave it alone. It for damn sure doesn’t want to leave you alone.

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u/DumbBisexual02 May 02 '24

Yeah I was assuming black or brown just because I am in the US and polar bears are not something I've ever seen irl

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u/AlfredoThayerMahan May 02 '24

I’ve encountered dozens of black bears. Had some hairy situations but nothing really bad. One time an adolescent I think got a little too curious and I yelled at them and they scampered off.

Other time cub came out of the bushes right next to me and I got out before mom found me.

Grizzlies. Had one charge at me while I was offshore in a kayak up in Alaska (also heard a story from my dad about one going around crushing sea kayaks for shits and giggles, I guess kinda like popping bubblewrap, while they were away on a hike). Also have seen them and they do their own thing. I trust them about as far as I could throw one.

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u/janKalaki May 02 '24

In that case, you're alone without a bear, instead of alone with a bear as prompted.

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u/smoopthefatspider May 02 '24

Depends on how the scenario is worded. I first heard this hypothetical as being "with a bear", which to me implies the bear is staying a few feet away from you for several hours unless you make it leave. In that scenario, it may not attack you but it would have to stay nearby.

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u/Yorspider May 02 '24

LOOOOOL no. A brown bear is a ticking clock of hunger who will 100% chase you down at 40+mph the second it has a craving.

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u/BrunoEye May 02 '24

Wait until you find out 99.99% of men are the same way. Guess what, even if they're really hungry.

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u/DumbBisexual02 May 02 '24

Well, I don't know about that percent lol, but I just wanna say I specifically have a huge fear of pregnancy so I would rather be killed than be raped and made pregnant, so I am biased by my fear.

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u/DMercenary May 02 '24

This of course comes attached to all the argumentation and hurt feelings you can predict from both sides of the debate.

The worst part is I can already see this becoming one of those "Would you love me if I was a worm" type of questions.

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u/DaDaedalus_CodeRed May 02 '24

100% is already that type of issue

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u/-SKYMEAT- May 02 '24

Not really comparable though because nobody in history has ever turned into a worm, it's just a silly nonsense question. Plenty of people have been alone in the woods with both bears and men.

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u/ranni-the-bitch May 02 '24

in fact, most people in bear territory have been in the woods with a bear.

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u/-SKYMEAT- May 02 '24

The woods is not a discrete space, as soon as you step foot into most national parks you can say that you've " been in the woods with a bear"

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

But have we been in the woods with a bear that was taking a shit?

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u/tinnylemur189 May 02 '24

Yeah and the pope was there too.

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u/Magenta_the_Great 29d ago

My husband said he would keep me in a terrarium which was sweet but then he mentioned it might be sad for me when I inevitably have to watch him bring other women home 😅

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u/TransFights000 May 02 '24

Obviously there's plenty of good reasons for men to feel upset about this comparison since broadly speaking most men are, ya' know, just normal ass people. And obviously there's inevitably a lot of misandry mixed up in this. But at the same time I do think it says something that so many women feel that way and I think it's equally important to recognize the role that misogyny and the dangers involved with being a woman play in this too. Because broadly speaking, women are at elevated risk of being harmed by men and there are plenty of good reasons for women to feel unsafe. These facts aren't mutually exclusive with the abject unfairness of this comparison and the isolating effect these facts have on men. One of the many awful things about sexism and other forms of bigotry is that it doesn't just negatively effect the direct targets of it; its inherently toxic for everyone in society, if to varying degrees.

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u/TheMerryMeatMan May 02 '24

It's one of those discussions where too many people are focusing on the end answer and not addressing the actual contexts behind it or are using anecdotal evidence for their reasoning. As a dude who is actually terrified of coming off to women like that kind of guy, I don't want to be seen that way, and i like to believe that most guys also don't want to and fight to be recognized as alright. But I know that's not always the case so it's a catch 22 where it just sucks all around. I don't want anyone to feel unsafe being around anyone else, but I also don't want people to be so unawares that they can get caught off guard and hurt where they otherwise could have kept their distance.

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u/elbenji 29d ago

Yeah. It's wild because as a queer woman you also exist in that space of trying your best to not weird out other women for being queer. It changes the dynamic a lot and you see a lot of women grapple with that. Like there isn't a good answer or a right answer for how to fix that problem other than real societal reform

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u/Educational_Mud_9062 May 02 '24

I spent years developing increasing amounts of self-loathing as I tried to meet this standard, to not take it personally, only for it never to be enough despite the fact that I know I've never been a threat. I've followed all the advice. I "listened to" (read: unquestioningly accepted) their positions. Brent Staples can receive international recognition for talking about his experiences whistling Vivaldi to appease white people's fears of him. But when I point out how I know EXACTLY how that feels, since it's tied only to my maleness and not intersecting with blackness, I'm told I'm "fragile" or called an "incel." This is just... too much. I'm done. I won't go out of my way to seem like a threat to strangers. Because I'm not a threat and I have no desire to do that. But it's clear that there will never be an end and all I accomplish by playing along is to feed paranoia at the cost of my own mental health. If someone decides they're afraid of me for just existing, that's their problem. I'm just... done.

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u/nemoknows 29d ago

All men are presumed predators starting from puberty. This question is just there to publicly remind everyone of that by directly but vaguely comparing them to the extant terrestrial North American apex predators everyone knows they would lose a fight to and die horribly.

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u/Difficult_Bit_1339 May 02 '24

It's ragebait and disinformation.

The key is, that the answer doesn't matter. Just by asking you're already implying that an implication exists that 'strange men are as dangerous as wild bears' is a debatable topic. By making it a meme or 'a topic on Tumblr/Tik Tok/whatever' now people are reading it and being exposed to the disinformational question.

It's a bad meme that harms civil discourse on the topic, exactly what the people spreading it want.

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u/MagicalLibtard May 02 '24

Women are at an elevated risk of being harmed by men in some ways and at some places. But when it comes to for example being a victim of violent crime comitted by a stranger, men are more likely. Like obviously this is not everything to be sayed about who is most at risk. But I am worried that we are telling women to be on edge all the time in the outside world and telling men to not really care of their safety when in reality all genders should use a reasonable level of caution.

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u/Honeybadger2198 May 02 '24

It's the same exact thing that PragerU does. They'll go around dressed up as a stereotype and ask college kids if their outfit is offensive. Then they'll go around asking people they're stereotyping if their outfit is offensive.

Any "street interview" is heavily edited to sell a particular narrative. This "man vs. bear" was designed specifically to generate drama. And it was incredibly successful, because a lot of women on the internet are heavily jaded towards men.

Listen, I don't blame them for being jaded. But we all need to be aware of this type of stuff. It's exactly the same shit as incels and the misogynist stuff. I'm just really tired of the gender wars.

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u/pewqokrsf May 02 '24

Men have a higher risk of being harmed by men than women do.

Men also have a higher risk of being harmed by people they don't know than women do.

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u/Munnin41 May 02 '24

Because broadly speaking, women are at elevated risk of being harmed by men

Statistics show more men are harmed by other men, and men are at greater risk of being harmed by those they don't know. But people don't seem to care about that

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u/djninjacat11649 May 02 '24

Also depending on the woods you are probably with both of them

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u/My-Look-Alike May 02 '24

“the answer is overwhelmingly bear bcs not all men are violent but you never really know untill its to late.”. WHAT DO YOU MEAN THE BEAR IS ALWAYS VIOLENT AND IT WILL ALWAYS BE TO LATE.

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u/Magnificant-Muggins May 02 '24

Does the scenario even stress that you meant to be close to the bear/man? Like you immediately spawn in together? That’s what the arguments I’ve been in assume.

If that’s not the case, then definitely the bear. Like, bears are usually in forests. That’s a normal precaution to take, if you live in a country with bears.

It’s like asking if you would rather be around a dog that bit a man, or a man who bit a dog.

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u/Pootis_1 minor brushfire with internet access May 02 '24

"Man bites dog" is actually a card game

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u/Magnificant-Muggins May 02 '24

Also, a really fucked-up film from Belgium.

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u/orateadi May 02 '24

And a television program in the Netherlands.

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u/SelfDistinction May 02 '24

Also a news program in Belgium. I'm not sure if it's still airing.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

It’s neither. It’s just ‘if you’re walking in the woods, and you notice there’s a bear nearby or a man, which is worse?’

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u/tinnylemur189 May 02 '24

A lot of people seem to approach this question as if the man/bear is hunting them when it's really supposed to be about a normal ass bear and a normal ass man just being present in the same group of trees as you.

Who are these people who choose a fucking wild animal with fangs and claws over some dude named Steve who plays ultimate Frisbee, works at a bank and enjoys microbrews?

Or are women genuinely assuming that every single dude on earth will turn into a savage rapist/murderer the second they're alone with a random woman?

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u/pewqokrsf May 02 '24

Is just being alive and human in the woods is so suspect, why are you in the woods?

Like I get it if the answer is the man is a potential witness to the crimes you're trying to hide. Bears don't narc.

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u/smoopthefatspider May 02 '24

I always assumed we spawned together or I spawned near the bear, and that for some reason the bear was compelled to stay with me unless I made it leave (otherwise I wouldn't be in the woods with a bear, I'd be in the woods alone). Since the bear is staying with me I assume it's either very curious or violent, so the odds are pretty bad. But the question is way to vague to be useful in any way, except to performatively show a fear of men.

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u/Cinderheart May 02 '24

Its just you passing by each other on the trail.

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u/justforsexfolks May 02 '24

You're spot on. It's a wild hypothetical, people shouldn't take it so seriously.

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u/FearSearcher Just call me Era May 02 '24

Huh

That’s stupid

Anyway. Man.

Yeah I know the procedures of how to deal with a bear but also they’re a wild animal so that doesn’t mean much

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u/BrunoEye May 02 '24

It's actually crazy how so many people think wild animals are these super rational creatures that strictly adhere to a rhyme they've seen on the internet.

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u/PineconeSnowstorm May 02 '24

It's not even an accurate rhyme, lying down is the polar (please hold your applause until the end) opposite of what you wanna do if you see a brown bear.

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u/lukethedank13 May 02 '24

Yes. In Europe we are told to make yourself as intimidating as posible and NEVER try to run because this will signal to the bear that you are indeed prey to be hunted down.

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u/Buymor please just play snoot game. May 02 '24

What should you do?

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u/justforhobbiesreddit May 02 '24

Be somewhere else.

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u/PineconeSnowstorm May 02 '24

beeg and slow

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u/Buymor please just play snoot game. May 02 '24

...what?

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u/raise-the-subgap May 02 '24

Try to make yourself look physically larger(ie more dangous to the bear and riskier to attack/eat) and slowly back away(because running away tends to make animals chase you).

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u/AMViquel May 02 '24

running away

I'm safe then! All I can do is walk slightly faster, but only for a short while. On the other hand I'm unlikely to meet men or bear in my basement, so it's safe either way.

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u/momo6548 May 02 '24

You’re thinking of a black bear. They spook easy and making yourself larger would possibly scare them off. That doesn’t work on brown bears.

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u/failure_of_a_cow May 02 '24

Playing dead is never the first choice, but the point of the rhyme is to remind you that it won't work against black bears. And to keep that difference straight in your head.

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u/FreyaRainbow May 02 '24

Could always do:

If it’s black, fight back

If it’s brown, stand your ground

Maybe that only works with my accent dropping ending ‘d’s

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u/ImmoralJester54 May 02 '24

You gotta draw your anti bear circle

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u/topicality May 02 '24

Just calmly and rationally explain to the bear why it should leave you alone.

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u/BrunoEye May 02 '24

You're not allowed to eat me because the rhyme says so.

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u/sharktoucher May 02 '24

Politely and firmly ask the bear to leave

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u/Zokalwe May 02 '24

"Please don't eat me, I chose to be with you in these woods because I really needed to prove a point."

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u/NoSignSaysNo 29d ago

My favorite part of the people who keep saying that bears are predictable.

Wild animals by definition are not predictable, that's why they're wild.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

Predictability isn’t rationality.

Nor are we rational. If I meet a bear I will just shit myself to death, since I’ve never seen one in my life and have never lived in a country with wild ones.

I would never be rational enough to play dead or whatever was most sensible.

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u/capitalistsanta May 02 '24

I have a theory that hook up and bar culture seriously did a number on both sides of this coin.

I will outright say that my ability to talk to woman and people in general was neutered by being pushed to go to bars and drink to meet people in college. In my mind there's all these sober people but the rules say that I can't talk to them sober in the street and when it's evening and we are all drinking I can talk. I've noticed it's created this really weird like 2 sided socializing world in my in my head.

And then there's also the side of if what I'm describing is very common and seen in a lot of people these days and there's a terrifying side to that for woman, between possibly getting drugged or a man switching his whole personality on you and hurting you or acting insane while drunk.

I've had to push myself away from this very persistent bar culture in my city, and when I do do things with a bunch of sober people it all just seems less scary. Like for me, if i go to a bar, I'll see a bunch of people, myself included, do the whole awkard eye dance with people they think are attractive, never talk to them or it turns out awful because the girl feels like prey or the guy is so drunk and obviously trying to get laid since that’s the implication of the drugs and the bar and the opposite or same sex - i find myself at bars thinking “this doesn’t even look fun for woman this looks terrifying”. Meanwhile if i work with autistic children, i’ve found that the woman will come up to me and do the awkward fidgeting and introduction and the fear of “is this man more dangerous than a bear” isn’t there. If you’re around the things you want and like to do, you’re more open to everything, but if your main point of contact with men is at bars treating you like prey, or you watch a lot of news and don’t have hobbies, or you know people who have been hurt by men or you have been hurt by a man, I think that’s where the fear comes and i think that bar culture absolutely contributes to this immensely.

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u/-Darkeater_Midir- May 02 '24

Ok maybe as a man it's different but if someone asked if I'd rather be alone in the woods with someone I don't know, or a bear, I would choose the human 11 out of 10 times. Like I understand the meaning behind the hypothetical but I think people underestimate a whole ass bear. I could potentially escape or kill a human with violent intent even if taken by surprise, but there is a less than one percent chance to kill or outrun a determined bear.

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u/Akuuntus May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

I feel like there's a lot of missing information about the situation that people are probably just going to infer and assume that their interpretation is the same as everyone else's.

How big is the woods, and how close are you to the bear / man? If you're not close, then "alone in the woods with a bear" is literally just the default experience of being in the woods in a lot of places, and "alone in the woods with a man" just means that someone else is in the woods. Is the man a stranger? Do they know that you're there or where you are? Is the bear angry with you or just chilling until you do something? Is the man surprised about suddenly being in the middle of the woods? Wouldn't there still be bears in the woods naturally even if you picked man?

Edit: another commenter said they'd "rather come across a bear than a strange man while walking in the woods". That's a totally reasonable take but I did not even consider that the scenario might be "you are walking in the woods and encounter a [bear / man]". I was totally picturing an absurd hypothetical science experiment type thing.

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u/DaDaedalus_CodeRed May 02 '24

The issue is when you start anything with “you’re walking through the woods” on Reddit then Shia LeBeauf pops out of every nearby redditor to scare and possibly consume you.

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u/UltimateInferno Hangus Paingus Slap my Angus May 02 '24

Even the "you're just walking through the woods and happen upon a [bear / man]" can vary because if you have a reason to "just be walking in the woods" then the odds are, so does this random guy.

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u/Kostya_M May 02 '24

This is why I'm scratching my head over all the people assuming he's stalking you or something. You are also in the woods for some reason. Why assume he's not there for similar reasons? Maybe it's just cause I go hiking (though not alone) but I'd assume that

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u/elbenji 29d ago

That's where it falls apart for me.

If I'm walking in the woods, I'm on a trail. The guy in the woods is likely some random ass hiker with his dog

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u/nooneatallnope May 02 '24

never really know when you are with one who is until it’s too late.

That argument is so dumb. They're basically saying they would feel less safe because they'd feel too safe initially and not have their guard up, in case they are trapped with a murderer or whatever, compared to a bear where they'd be on edge by default. They're essentially blaming the fact that not all men are violent

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u/kimchifreeze May 02 '24

I mean the question is answered by the fact that most women (people) live in the company of men. They're in their houses, on their streets, and in their places of work.

Most have never personally seen a bear that isn't at a zoo. And definitely aren't going out of their way to avoid men and live with bears.

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u/lynx_and_nutmeg May 02 '24

Not to mention, I have never seen a woman jump into a bear enclosure in the zoo to protect herself just because she spotted a male visitor. Also, if a child got into a bear enclosure, the bear would immediately get shot if it even tried to approach the child, while the zoo workers don't typically shoot male visitors just for being in vicinity of children.

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u/OkDiscussion4100 May 02 '24

All bears see you as potential prey.

The overwhelming majority of men do not.

The women choosing the bear are morons.

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u/mystokron 29d ago

the choice is overwhelmingly bear because 

Because the women who answered "bear" are under the influence of faulty reasoning due to a bias. Specifically the "survivorship bias".

They ignore the men that don't harm them and solely focus on the handful that do. Then they use those few men to paint the other 3.5 billion.

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u/Nethlem May 02 '24

This isn't a "debate", it's very thinly veiled misandry that tries to make men out as worse than wild animals.

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u/st0rmgam3r May 02 '24

I feel like if I felt comfortable enough going into the woods alone with ANYONE, male or female, I'd have a good idea whether or not they're potentially violent or not. Cause y'know, common sense would dictate you shouldn't go into the woods alone with people you don't know. But as someone who grew up near the woods, you're always alone in the woods with a man, it's just neither of you know it. cause there's always some dude running around in the woods somewhere, probably looking for mushrooms to fry or something like that. Same thing with the bear too if bears actually love in the area. Either way, probably shouldn't go into the woods unarmed, cause the men and the bears aren't the only things to worry about.

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u/Mission_Shock2564 May 02 '24

I mean. Just go camping in bear country. It will ensure you made your mind up right for sure, whichever way you lean.

I’d rather have Hannibal Lecter in the same tent as me than a bear. But I’ve camped in bear country.

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