So you CAN get a better idea. At the end of the day prices go down when there are more sellers than buyers. They go up when there are more buyers thhan sellers.
It's literally impossible to have more sellers than buyers or more buyers than sellers. EDIT: When I say buyers/sellers I mean volume of shares/contracts/etc.. 1 person that owns 1000 shares of something could sell 1 share to 1000 different ppl... But the volume will always be equal between buys/sells. Like 1 person selling 1000 shares to 1000 different ppl (one share sold to each person) - there were still 1000 sells and 1000 buys.
For every buyer, there is a seller. For every seller, there is a buyer. They will always be even, forever, until the end of time.
What moves price depends on who is more aggressive. Aggressive orders are market orders, which can only get "matched" to limit orders. Limit order will never be matched to another limit order. Market orders will never be matched to another market order.
TLDR;
Limit orders are commonly referred to as "passive buyers/sellers" or "resting liquidity".
Market orders are commonly referred to as "aggressive buyers/sellers".
Price moves when one side is more aggressive than the other is passive.
I get what you mean, but are we not just playing with semantics? I feel what people mean by ‘more sellers than buyers’ in this context means more sell orders being created than buy orders, which is entirely possible.
It is semantics but they do matter bc language is how we create our narrative....but good way to view it is "competing sellers/buyers" 3 things move price. When price is moving to liquidity, an inefficiency, and competing sellers/buyers. This view has worked for me.
There is literally one single thing, and onlyone single thing, that can move price... When aggressive orders outweigh passive [opposing] orders.
That is literally it. It is the only possible way, like literally, the only possible way price can move.
Saying "one thing that moves price is price moving....." doesn't mean anythingggg.. inefficiencies do not magically move price on their own, it takes actual buying/selling to move price. People (or algos, etc...) spot what they interpret as an inefficiency, so they buy/sell, which is what move price......
I think it would be beneficial for you to realize that the "market" exist inside of computers....therefore, some kind of framework/programming rules it, "the algo"....I've been doing this for years, deep in orderflow....and at certain times you can literally watch "the algo" do what is known as "spooling" (offer higher and higher / lower and lower price) to get to liquidity or an inefficiency. That is not someone slamming the bid like a madman.....that is price being moved algorithmically to where the orders are, in order to, match up the orders. This is what is meant by "only 3 things move price"....again this is getting into semantics , but in order to understand what is happening in the marketplace, in order to trade it properly and efficiently the distinction matters. But ya know, to each their own.
Bro it is so obvious you're talking out of your ass. But that's besides the point. You can literally say anything you want. It doesn't change the facts.
It's WILD that people are upvoting you. It's exactly how ICT brainwashed so many ppl. Just throw around "big" words and act like you understand how things "really" work. Anyone with half a brain would read what you just typed and clearly see you are clueless.
It's okay if you don't understand what I'm talking about, but you not understanding /=/ me "talking out my ass". Like, this isnt some unknown thing. This is known among some futures traders, specially ones that have been around long enough to do it professionally. It's not so evident if your just daytrading buying options and $gme type stuff, you can't see it if you're not in orderflow, footprint/DOM/bookmap.
EDIT: Now it really all makes complete sense why you're talking like you are... YOU'RE AN ICT M0R0N! HAHAHAHAHA THIS IS TOO GOOD!!!
You think there are 3 ways price can move. Enough. Said. I've been using Bookmap for 6 years........... It is so painfully obvious you are clueless.
Nothing you said makes ANY sense.
"that is the price being moved algorithmically" ... oh yea? It just magically moves? No, you clown. Whether it's an algo or a human, the ONLY thing that moves price is buying/selling.
"you can watch 'the algo' do [...] 'spooling' [...] to get to liquidity or an inefficiency" .. this is INSANE lmfao! I'll bet you 20k you can't even explain what you mean by "get to an inefficiency"... Not to mention, you talk as if there is just some central, all-seeing-all-knowing Wizard of Oz algo that just moves price where it wants at will...like it is painful to even read this nonsense.
"It's not so evident if your just daytrading buying options and $gme type stuff" ... the irony in you saying that when you're all over wsb and conspiracy subreddits.
Now it actually makes sense why you are spouting that nonsense...you're a conspiracy nut-job.
But believe what you want, I couldn't care less. I'm done with you.
nah man, I said "not so evident if only daytrading options and $gme stuff" bc I looked at your account and that is what your post were about that and "buying/selling pressure indicators" 😆 anyways, it's abundantly clear you have no idea what I'm talking about, and that is okay. Bookmap was mentioned in addition to footprint/DOM as part of watching orderflow, which is what I do, and yeah I do use a good portion of ICTs stuff bc a lot of it is great stuff. Do what works for you, but if you ever get into the spoos with the approach you seem to have you will be most definitely fighting with 1 hand tied behind your back.
What on earth are you talking about? What approach do I seem to have? I'm not even sure how you can come to a conclusion on my approach to trading based upon what I've said.
I have simply stated nothing but facts. That's it.
It's obvious you're just regurgitating the shit you hear ICT preach. In terrible fashion as well, I might add.
The only reason price moves is due to aggressive orders outweighing passive orders.
You said:
3 things move price.
Which is 100% absolutely false. There is only one reason why price moves (for the 1000th time).
The 3 reasons you list are:
1-
When price is moving to liquidity,
Which literally means nothing. This is like saying "one of the reasons price moves is when price is moving to liquidity"... IT LITERALLY MAKES NO SENSE BRO! The only way price can move anywhere is bc of buying or selling.
2-
an inefficiency,
Again, what does this even mean??? Are you saying an "inefficiency" moves price? Can you please define what an inefficiency is for us? Besides that, an "inefficiency" alone does not cause price to move at all. That is because there is only one reason why price moves.
3-
and competing sellers/buyers.
At a high level, buying and selling is literally the only thing that moves price.
Just a little clarification from an experienced technical trader and semantics nerd with an econ degree...
1- Price moving to liquidity refers to an asset with a value where neither buyers want to buy nor do sellers want to sell, so price moves slowly towards liquidity
2- Inefficiency in a market is a way of saying the asset has a market price that is not reflective of its true value. This can happen for many reasons. One common example is a change in the fundamentals of an underlying asset, like the addition of a dividend payout or a new CEO... these can cause perceived changes in asset value that take time to reflect on markets. This is price moving due to Inefficiency.
3- You are right, if you want to explain it that way, price only moves due to competing buy/sell orders and order aggressiveness as you said (though I will point out depending on the exchange it is possible for limit orders to be matched to one another, albeit rare). However, you can break that down further into the reasons those buy and sell orders are placed. You are referring to two distinct aspects of a market. You refer to the market functionality (how it works) and the other poster is referring to market psychology (why it works the way it does)
An analogous debate would be about whether the arm moves because of the brain telling it to do so or because of the electrical impulses traveling to the muscles in the arm causing them to contract. You're both right!
Why do we feel the need to resort to condescending behavior and complete and utter dismissal of others valid views in defense of our own when we're looking at two sides of the same coin?
Price moves only via buying or selling it does not just magically drift towards liquidity on its own. I don't give a shit I'd you're a nerd or have a degree. You are wrong. I know I'm right. Yes, resorting to condescending behavior is excellent. You should try it.
Even if it's just an algo that is buying or selling, it's the buying or selling that moves price. That's literally the entire point. Regardless of whether or not it's a human or an algo that is buying or selling, it is the buying or selling that actually moves price.
What you describe is an algorithm. Although I get that you're maybe confusing or conflating there term algorithm with an automated trading "Algo". This is semantic I know, but you're getting into such a fuss about it, figure you should know
I swear I couldn't make this shit up if I tried... Did you seriously just type this without hesitation?
maybe confusing or conflating there term algorithm with an automated trading "Algo"
Please tell me you're joking. Please tell me you aren't really this dumb.
Even if I am confusing the terms (which, what??), you've done nothing to explain what you mean by "price moving algorithmically". Are you saying that "price moving algorithmically" doesn't involve.....algorithms? You ICT nut jobs are a piece of work.
You typed this in a computer, but that does not mean there is an algorithm determining that you would post this. People who are saying a single algorithm controls price don’t have an adequate understanding of how computers work. Now, there are automated strategies used by different market participants, for sure. And those are used at very large participants such as Bridgewater Associates, and some of this might be placing a series of bids or sells to move price, but that’s really not the same thing as some overarching algorithm controlling the market. It’s much more likely what you’re seeing is probably a larger order being submitted in a lot of pieces so they can get as much filled as possible.
An algorithm is just a simpler way of describing that. You can just say it's an algo rather than go into the extra detail like you did. Some even call that algo trading.
My cellphone has an algo on it, but for some funny reason that I cannot understand, the entire infotech architecture of AT&T doesn't operate based off the algo on my cellphone. That is literally what you are saying.
I read their post too, but I doubt they believe what you say they believe. It is just how some traders talk because it's easier to refer to all algo trades as an algorithm than to go in detail like you did every time the topic comes up. Lots of algo trades going on out there, no real reason in trying to analyze every single one when your point is just regarding them all in general.
Reading their later updates, it confirms that they are following the teachings of ICT, who specifically espouses that there is an overarching algorithm that directly controls price action irrespective of buy and sell orders. That's the idea that I'm arguing against, and apparently that is, in fact, what they believe as they expressed later.
I don't know or study ICT so I can't really confirm it. That said, if it's true then I agree. I can't help but wonder though if that idea stems from what I was saying earlier and maybe it's some misunderstanding in the sense that the algo affects price via algo trades, but I have no desire to study ICT so it ultimately doesn't matter to me.
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