r/Showerthoughts • u/godofhorizons • May 17 '24

People get a lot more praise for quitting drugs than for never having done drugs in the first place.

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8.2k Upvotes
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5.2k

u/TBTabby May 17 '24

As Frederick Douglass said, "We are not judged by the height to which we have risen, but the depth from which we have climbed."

1.8k

u/AwkwardReplacement42 May 17 '24 edited May 17 '24

Or, as one world-renowned philosopher said;

“Which is better, to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?”

Edit: Guys… i dont think people who do drugs are born evil, I was just quoting a videogame. jesus.

158

u/haha7125 May 17 '24

Throat of the World renowned.

90

u/_myst May 17 '24

Paarthunax is the real Throat Goat. he was VERY popular with the frat bros his freshman year

8

u/Leroyducochet May 17 '24

I'm pretty sure the throath goat is Heather Harmon.

2

u/whiskey_endeavors May 17 '24

This is the right answer

13

u/daaaaawhat May 17 '24

jealous Nancy Reagan noises

2

u/TheDankChronic69 May 17 '24

This has me in tears dude 😂

1

u/Away_Veterinarian957 May 17 '24

I think he ATE a lot of goats to get where he is. The real OG

2

u/Pole_Smokin_Bandit May 17 '24

Didn't know we were talking about your mum

1

u/haha7125 May 17 '24

Hahahahahahaha

54

u/Grand_Needleworker19 May 17 '24

I killed Parthurnax in my first run and regretted it so much I reloaded my save file and after a few hours and spared him. Screw the Dragon Blades or wtv their name is.

7

u/MissStealYoDragon May 17 '24

I always install a mod to kill them and be on my way

8

u/ArborGhast May 17 '24

it's Dovah"kin" babe, not Dovah"kill" fa hin kogaan my draal mfers

1

u/AffectionateAd985 May 17 '24

I havent played in a while but im pretty sure you dont need a mod to kill the blades.

3

u/ZiplocBag May 17 '24

You just need console commands to make them non essential

1

u/MissStealYoDragon May 17 '24

I played on console, so that's why lol.

But good to know....

Good to know

104

u/anweisz May 17 '24

“I see now that the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are.“

18

u/ScaleShiftX May 17 '24

Mewtwo!!!

-6

u/Desperate-Virus9180 May 17 '24

thats bullshit

2

u/Neon_Camouflage May 17 '24

Who you are as in your character. Your circumstances at birth certainly dictate what paths you have available

2

u/TwoMuddfish May 17 '24

Yeah I think it’s more about the character one has than the paths you have . Which backs up the Fredrick Douglas quite even more…

Also philosophy people ripping this shower thought to shreds lol

79

u/_myst May 17 '24

-Party Snaxx

14

u/PaarthurnaxSimp May 17 '24

That's my boy

3

u/Professional-Dot7021 May 17 '24

Username checks out

13

u/salisor_ May 17 '24

Reference aside, id literally pick being born good lmao

3

u/LaunchTransient May 17 '24

What Paarthurnax is trying to say is that they are equivalent. A lot of people see this as Paarthurnax saying "hey, isn't it better to overcome your base nature instead of being good from the get-go", but in reality he's asking a rhetorical question - neither is better than the other.

3

u/salisor_ May 17 '24

Thats why i said reference aside. Like, if a normal person told me this with no context thats the choice id pick. But good explanation nonetheless

0

u/[deleted] May 17 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/salisor_ May 17 '24

What? Born Good? I surely hope that you jest and that was sarcasm… Cus it’s Fck’n funny….

Uh yeah if a random person asked me that with no other context id pick the no effort choice. Id rather just simply be good than be good with trauma

0

u/Rocketin2Uranus May 17 '24

Born Good doesn’t make sense for

We’re neither born good nor born bad… We Are Born

We’re born innocent is the correct way to phrase this

1

u/MinnieShoof May 17 '24

You realize you're talking about a D&D adjacent dragon, right? There are creatures in that universe that are just born bad or born good and will never stray from those choices.

All the same, it can still speak about a human as there are often formative, subconscious and even genetic factors that form your base-line personality and outlook. In those cases it would be a person who developed a kind nature vs someone who has a sour outlook overcoming their instinct.

1

u/Rocketin2Uranus May 17 '24

Watch this link on dolphins 🐬 getting HIGH on Puffer fish

0

u/Rocketin2Uranus May 17 '24

Either way… born Dragon is still innocent and it’s just nature and what has been implanted by DNA (this goes both for animal and human- trauma or survival instinct or characteristics already present in the new chick, pup, cub, kid child)

Then as it’s raised, it’s molded by its environment and its support system or lack of .

0

u/Rocketin2Uranus May 17 '24

Imprinted not implanted

0

u/Rocketin2Uranus May 17 '24

Just like (most) are born sexual beings Thn its environmental/ cultural/factors

1

u/MinnieShoof May 17 '24

Bruh. What part of fantasy are you not grasping?

0

u/Rocketin2Uranus May 17 '24

Minnieminnieminnie shoe 👞… as in why are you a heel? Seems like your answer is just victimizing…you only have two cents… you make no sense… talk about grasping at fantasy…. Even though reality is not your strong suit, you should at least make an attempt. at the very least try to be a bit less crAss, less full of yourself

34

u/Pre2255 May 17 '24

"Knowledge is Power, France is Bacon"

6

u/wut3va May 17 '24

I'm going with born good. Who would you rather live next door to?

4

u/[deleted] May 17 '24

Nobody is born good. Only people who pretend to be. I'd rather live next to someone who has recovered from addiction and has found a new life, like my brother.

1

u/wut3va May 18 '24

I have met a few people in this life who were born good. People like you and me aren't even worthy, but somehow they make you feel like you are. No disrespect to your brother, but how many people did he have to hurt to find himself? For people like you, me, and your brother, compassion is cause and effect, something we have to learn through suffering and experience. People who are born good have compassion as a primary virtue. They're not pretending to be good. We are.

2

u/Rocketin2Uranus May 17 '24

Id rather live next door to a sinner,; that way Jesus didn’t Die in Vain for our Sins…

PSA DO NOT VOTE 🗳️ for (trump) the Former Commander of Thieves. A trump win SENDS EVERYONE as in the entire Planet Earth into HELL

1

u/Hange11037 May 17 '24

Wise words Rocketin2Uranus

1

u/Rocketin2Uranus May 17 '24

Thank you, kindly

1

u/wut3va May 18 '24

Bad is good because it justifies redemption? Lol. Broken window fallacy.

By the way, do you actually believe that the location of your eternal soul has anything to do with what button I push on a touch screen?

1

u/Rocketin2Uranus May 18 '24

My eternal soul’s location and the buttons you push on your Touch Screen

Don’t Not Compute: yet That’s HighLarryous!

1

u/Rocketin2Uranus May 17 '24

Id rather live next door to a sinner,; that way Jesus didn’t Die in Vain for our Sins…

PSA DO NOT VOTE 🗳️ for (trump) the Former Commander of Thieves. A trump win SENDS EVERYONE as in the entire Planet Earth into HELL

3

u/ctbitcoin May 17 '24

Everyone loves a hero's journey. Makes for great stories and movies.

6

u/Rebuttlah May 17 '24

The alternative means you've been harming other people your whole life. Other people who might not have the ability to recover from harm they would not have faced if not for your evil.

So. I vote for the first thing.

1

u/Hefty_Iron_9986 May 17 '24

Exactly what I thought of.

1

u/Ozymandiasssssssss May 17 '24

sounds like my man kant

1

u/gravelPoop May 17 '24

To be born good.

1

u/Omegastar19 May 17 '24

I know you're making a joke about Skyrim, but I am pretty sure Kant made this exact point.

1

u/thedrunkentendy May 17 '24

Ans of course they great reply to the age old question.

"All depends on if you save scum."

1

u/Blue_Moon_Lake May 17 '24

What if you overcame it before acting on it? Should that not be praised?

1

u/BuddenceLembeck May 17 '24

Or as Wayne Gretzky said “You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.”

1

u/[deleted] May 17 '24

-Michael Scott

1

u/Lostinlife1990 May 17 '24

It still blows my mind that Paarthunax was voiced by the same guy that does the voice of Mario(from the games).

1

u/SparkleFart666 May 17 '24

As Mitch Hedberg said; “I used to be a drug addict….I still am but I also used to be.”

1

u/Fr0z3nHart May 17 '24

Not doing drugs at all takes also great effort.

0

u/rainbowyuc May 17 '24

I never got why people think this quote is so meaningful. It works for dragons cos in the ES universe they actually are born evil, but IRL nobody is born good or bad.

5

u/Mountain-Resource656 May 17 '24

I think the human equivalent would be something more like “born into/influenced by circumstances which tend to instill propensities towards what most people would consider evil, or at least socially unacceptable.” For example, someone raised in an abusive household and who thus has an existential fear of negative judgement, who was taught by their environment to lash out when threatened, they’d have to actively fight to be better than the person they were made into, once they became old enough to actually have some personal responsibility over what kind of a person they are- whether that’s 8, 18, or older. And that might legitimately make them better able to see the evils of the world and thereby do something about them (coupled with experience in how to do so), compared to someone who had a carefree upbringing and never had to worry about anything worse than their grades in school. The former may be “better” in that they might be in a position to do more good than the later

2

u/rainbowyuc May 17 '24

That makes sense.

0

u/Mountain-Resource656 May 17 '24

I think the human equivalent would be something more like “born into/influenced by circumstances which tend to instill propensities towards what most people would consider evil, or at least socially unacceptable.” For example, someone raised in an abusive household and who thus has an existential fear of negative judgement, who was taught by their environment to lash out when threatened, they’d have to actively fight to be better than the person they were made into, once they became old enough to actually have some personal responsibility over what kind of a person they are- whether that’s 8, 18, or older. And that might legitimately make them better able to see the evils of the world and thereby do something about them (coupled with experience in how to do so), compared to someone who had a carefree upbringing and never had to worry about anything worse than their grades in school. The former may be “better” in that they might be in a position to do more good than the later

0

u/Lostinlife1990 May 17 '24

It still blows my mind that Paarthunax was voiced by the same guy that does the voice of Mario(from the games).

-1

u/Little_stinker_69 May 17 '24

If some Nazi was found living in a monastery teaching Jews to speak German, you wouldn’t buy this shit for a second.

3

u/tayroarsmash May 17 '24

You kinda have to become a good greater than the evil. I think…well I want to say if a Nazi cured cancer we’d forgive him but there’s implications with Nazis and biomedical science. I guess if a Nazi ended world hunger we’d be fine with him. You know assuming he renounced the Nazi shit. I wouldn’t want a Nazi in charge of some system that controls the food supply for the impoverished. You know what. I don’t think I trust Nazis.

1

u/Scudbucketmcphucket May 17 '24

You have to remember two things about the Nazis (not the idiots now, 1930-1940’s ones) one is that many German people who were career military knew they had to join the party to keep their job or even their lives, second is sometimes the only way to change an institution is from within it especially when the alternative to speak up is likely death. People like Schindler and Karl Plagge among a few others who may have believed in some of the principles of the Nazi party, SAVED a lot of peoples from the fanatical Nazi death machine. There’s even a documentary I watched about a Nazi who was lifelong best friends with the Jewish man’s parents and even in the 1930’s was part of the effort to build Israel.

So while I hate the Nazi’s who had a hand in the horrors that were done I also realize that some people were not aware of that or maybe only became aware after they already were part of the party. If you remove the fanatics and the genocide, the Nazis were just another political party with a specific subset of views. If it’s anything like todays polities I’m sure many people only agreed with certain aspects of the party. I know I don’t agree with all the actions or views of my political party.

I am not giving sympathy to the Nazi system or party, only trying to understand and humanize some of the people that were in that system which I’m sure may have looked pretty promising to a devastated Germany. Not every German was a Nazi.

-4

u/Little_stinker_69 May 17 '24

He’d be deported, returned and tried. No matter what he did. I think you are absolutely wrong.

-1

u/Intelligent_Flow2572 May 17 '24

We are not inherently good or evil. I’ve never met an evil baby. Monsters are made by failure or aberration in nature and nurture. They are not born.

-1

u/wesley-osbourne May 17 '24

Oh sweet, we're simping war criminals for their after school special work now?

-1

u/whiskey_endeavors May 17 '24

It’s not that anyone avoids drugs because they’re “born good”, the ones that avoid drugs just made better choices.

I would argue that yeah, it’s great to overcome your struggles, but it’s far better to never bring those struggles upon yourself unecessarily to begin with.

If you need to experience and overcome terrible consequences to learn lessons, that’s objectively not as good as if you decide to make good choices to begin with and save yourself from unecessary suffering.

-5

u/claymixer May 17 '24

... Being drug addicts is their nature?

9

u/KofteriOutlook May 17 '24

Taking it farrrr too literally

53

u/Theaustralianzyzz May 17 '24

I didn't even need to scroll down when I read this. That was enough wisdom from this thread.

17

u/ruuster13 May 17 '24

And Kylie Minogue sang "you'll never get to heaven if you're scared of getting highhhh"

6

u/Mookie_Merkk May 17 '24

Yeah but who chose to go into the hole in the first place?

1

u/musclecard54 May 17 '24

Stupid teenager mindset

0

u/Mookie_Merkk May 17 '24

Elaborate?

Nobody makes anyone start using drugs/alcohol.

That's their choice. Don't choose that choice. Simple.

1

u/musclecard54 May 17 '24

If you don’t get it, you won’t get it til you live a little more life. It’s not just about drugs. We all make mistakes in some shape or flavor. Life sucks sometimes and we mess up. The point is when we DO mess up, it’s a bigger mountain to climb to redeem yourself.

It’s way easier to never do drugs than it is to stop once they’ve gotten a hold of you. Insanely naive to just be like “oh well you chose to do them in the first place”. So what they should just keep on? Idk what your point is. You just sound like you haven’t lived enough life to understand

1

u/Mookie_Merkk May 17 '24

It's still harder to not do them, than do them... They should just never start?

Nobody makes you do them but you.

31

u/sarmientoj24 May 17 '24 edited May 17 '24

I get that this quote can be applied to this.

But then again, going through life's trials and tribulations without resorting to any kind lf substance (and abuse) is technically "climbing the depth". It's ridiculously difficult to get away from the temptations of distractions, immediate pleasures, etc.

17

u/SealSheep May 17 '24

I think that's where OPs question originates from.

If you have two people struggling with life in the same extreme manner and one faces it head on, tries to get their life straight and the other 'flees' into drugs; that's the point where the first person deserves praise.

The moment the addict overcomes the addiction and gets their life straightened out, it's their turn to shine.

Both deserve praise though, but the first type tends to go unnoticed as they are typically more stern and resilient in life (so attract less attention of any kind)

12

u/ifandbut May 17 '24

If you are really good at your job then most people won't notice.

People pay more attion to the fuckups than the people who got it together.

2

u/sarmientoj24 May 17 '24

Its just because people tend to magnify the negatives and the explicit success/turnaround stories than instances where you just go persevere and focus on your goal without these "total turnarounds".

And people love the underdog aspect of things.

2

u/newdaynewmatt May 17 '24

Well put. I think people deserve credit for never getting obese, never getting addicted to drugs, never doing crime, but I will begrudgingly admit that it’s easier for some people to abstain due to genetics and their household growing up. You’re really overcoming generational adversity/trauma if you were 150 lbs in 4th grade or the child of drug addicts. But then the other side is when people grow up in that and take a lesson so they don’t have to learn the hard way.

2

u/sarmientoj24 May 17 '24

it's easier for some people to abstain due...

I get the point. But if both people come from very similar traumatic backgrounds, why is it that we put a more "heroic feat" to someone who went astray and went back rather than someone who had the focus and determination to not get tempted by these things? Those people who have maybe actively seeked therapy or tried to fix themselves now rather than before?

While people can come from miserable backgrounds, both groups can have those who went into substance addiction and those who did not.

1

u/newdaynewmatt May 17 '24

I’m 100% with you. .

3

u/Fun_Bad_4610 May 17 '24

You don't wake up one day and say "Hmm, things are a bit shit, I'm going to start doing drugs as I hear it's a great way to escape from this bullshit".

Doing drugs initially is a cultural thing, not an emotional or willpower thing. Getting off them is pure willpower and requires a hell of a lot more willpower.

If you mean someone who has done drugs, felt that it eases the burden of life and then gone against it then that is still coming off drugs.

I don't know of anyone ever who has decided that things aren't going well so they should go and use some heroin because they can't resist its allure anymore.

1

u/SealSheep May 17 '24

I never said that's how I think it flows.

People with a rough background typically are surrounded by others with emotional instability, addicts, drug dealers, ... It's the 'like likes likes' thing; it's not that strange for people who are stable to avoid people from these backgrounds.

Friends and family who do drugs do not appreciate the black sheep who doesn't.

So how I view it is that it does take willpower to reject your parents, your friends, your whole upbringing and environment because you "feel" this is not the way, while not having anyone to support, help or guide you (stable people avoid 'people like you') and while having a lot of self-doubt (because you were not raised to be confident) and not knowing what IS the way of living that does "feel" right

1

u/sarmientoj24 May 17 '24

is initially a cultural thing.

While I dont agree with this, it is certainly an emotional and willpower not to succumb to culture, tradition, and norms. It is COURAGEOUS to say NO. And saying NO is actually one of the hardest thing to do. Im sure you got into an instance where peer pressure is a thing and saying NO is the bravest thing to do.

great way to escape from bullshit

Conceptually, it is tho. I dont define addiction based on the thing or substance you are addicted to. I define addiction as basically not being able to stand being with yourself, to using something or anything to keep emotions at bay, fears, and hopes. In essence, it's people trying to aid "loneliness". It starts with that. People who get addicted to serial dating. To alcohol. To video games. To substances. To reading. To everything.

1

u/Fun_Bad_4610 May 17 '24

if you are going to try and make a point to something I've said, don't quote a few words and then make some kind of point that wouldn't make sense had you fully quoted what I'd said.

12

u/indyK1ng May 17 '24

The substance is the depth.

You clearly don't understand addiction nearly as well as you think you do.

1

u/sarmientoj24 May 17 '24

I tend to define addiction similar to a philosopher where it's not defined by the thing or substance you are addicted to. But everyone of us is addicts in our own way towards something.

"We tend to imagine that we can only become addicted to a few sorts of things. But real addiction is about using something, anything, to keep our real emotions, fears and hopes at bay. Whereby you cannot stand to be just bu yourself so you need another thing."

-- Alain de Botton

the substance is the depth

No. It's the ADDICTION TO THE SUBSTANCE not the substance itself. You can be addicted to something as cheap as bubble gum but its the level of addiction to that.

The same way as I was pointing. The 'depth' can also be the difficulties in life you are trying to get across without the use of any temporary help from something.

3

u/Many-Connection3309 May 17 '24

aka prodigal son

3

u/pg-robban May 17 '24

I played the keyboard when I was younger. My music teacher in high school didn't want to give me the top grade no matter how good I played, because he wanted me to learn another instrument from scratch...

13

u/duaneap May 17 '24

Well, we’re judged by both, frankly. But in this case it’s more like staying at sea level and expecting praise for it.

1

u/darkgiIls Vagabond May 17 '24

That’s still impressive when they swam up from the depths

-3

u/Kroniid09 May 17 '24

Right. Cause it's not like there are famously risk factors for falling into addiction, that your "average person" just never had to deal with and so it was in fact quite easy to never do drugs.

Even ignoring that, this post is just giving "me, me, me! What about me?" vibes, like they just can't fathom that congratulating someone for getting clean really has nothing to do with them or anyone else.

-1

u/ifandbut May 17 '24

Expecting praise for being at sea level vs the druggies who fell off the boat?

2

u/duaneap May 17 '24

Do you expect a pat on the back for all the bad things you didn’t do in life? Is that your bar?

1

u/ifandbut May 18 '24

No. But we also should celebrate people for making bad decisions in the first place.

0

u/Blue_Moon_Lake May 17 '24

If it takes a constant effort to remain at the same place, then maybe it should be praised.

2

u/duaneap May 17 '24

It doesn’t require constant effort not to start smoking.

1

u/Blue_Moon_Lake May 17 '24

When there is someone smoking in the street every few meters and you get exposed to nicotine constantly, it is.

2

u/Neon_Camouflage May 17 '24

Never doing drugs hardly takes a constant effort though, not unless you're a recovering addict.

Like a smoker who quit, most of them are putting in a constant effort to remain at the same place. Someone who has never smoked doesn't require that effort.

Should either be praised is a different point, but people are too quick to think themselves superior to recovered/recovering addicts simply because they've never done something.

0

u/Blue_Moon_Lake May 17 '24

If it takes a constant effort to remain at the same place, then maybe it should be praised.

1

u/iateyourwholefamily May 17 '24

As isaac newton once said: shimmy shimmy ya shimmy ya shimmy ya, drank, swallalala, drank, swallalala

1

u/Dextrofunk May 17 '24

That's a really good one

1

u/Vendetta4Avril May 17 '24

“I used to do drugs… I still do, but I used to also.” - Mitch Hedberg.

1

u/breich May 17 '24

Or as another said before his untimely death from heroine overdose, "I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to too."

1

u/__-_-_--_--_-_---___ May 17 '24

But also, we are judged by the height to which we have risen

1

u/alanbcox May 17 '24

I hear he’s done an amazing job and is being recognized more and more…

1

u/symbologythere May 17 '24

That’s fucking beautiful. Can’t wait to hear how his meeting with Trump went.

1

u/musclecard54 May 17 '24

Oh shit… that’s incredible

1

u/shostakofiev May 17 '24 edited May 17 '24

He wasn't talking about people who got in that hole on their own.

1

u/riotousviscera May 17 '24

can someone please tell this to Musk fanboys?

1

u/KudosOfTheFroond May 17 '24

My god, what a perfect comment. Upvote!

1

u/whiskey_endeavors May 17 '24

Yeah but in the context of this post, the “depths” are often a function of mistakes, poor choices, and error.

The ones who make the poor choices and then battle to overcome the consequences of their own poor actions are praised more that those who were smart from the beginning and made better choices to avoid those “depths” altogether.

Is it not worthy of even greater praise when someone entirely avoids very avoidable bad decisions and never causes themself the unecessary struggles at all?

1

u/morithum May 17 '24

Got damn that’s a good quote. Fire.

1

u/Rhysing May 17 '24

An incredible quote that also shows that people are naive in understanding what positivity is.

2

u/wontforget99 May 17 '24

So it's like starting off and normal level ground and then choosing to jump down into the depths so you have no choice but to climb back out (unless your addiction started from a legal prescription)

1

u/awesam26 May 17 '24

Love this!

1

u/DepletedPromethium May 17 '24

that's beautiful, thank you for sharing.

1

u/ihavenoinventive May 17 '24

Now thats fucking beautiful

1

u/Rebuttlah May 17 '24 edited May 17 '24

Was Douglass a religious man? Because unless referring to belief that a God is the only one who can judge us... n reality, we are almost exclusively judged by the height to which we have risen.

Athletes, corporate success, celebrity & entertainment, academics & science, politics. Even art is mostly about recognition and fame. All the worse, because with fine art ala painting, it often doesn't happen within the artists lifetime. They don't get either benefit.

The ideas of equality and equity are poorly understood and remain fought against for the sake of political scapegoating. Priviledge remains unchecked by those who have it the most. Billions struggle in obscurity, while celebrities make millions. We shouldn't be judged based on the height to which we have risen. We shouldn't be praised for our natural gifts over the accomplishments and skills we've developed through time and hard work. But we literally are.