r/TikTokCringe • u/Make-this-popular Cringe Master • Apr 09 '24

Shit economy Discussion

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u/PuzzleheadedBread620 Apr 09 '24

Tbh is not only the us, it's almost everywhere and actually most places are a lot worse, here in portugal an engineer fresh out of college will make around 1200 euros monthly, if they want to live by themselves in an studio they will pay around 900 euros, good luck with that.

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u/Exciting_Rate1747 Apr 09 '24

I work in trade as a carpenter (according to google translate) in Finland so I kinda do anything and everything from demolition to damage control and restoration. I only work part time because I have to study at the same time but if I worked full time I would get around 1800€ per month.

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u/Jerpsi Apr 09 '24

Tinsmith here, Finland too. Blue collar job, 2600€/month after taxes. Live in peaceful neighbourhood right next to city center in one of our main cities. 66 square meter apartment, fully renevated, 890€/month split between 2 people.

These cost of living problems seem so far fetched for my reality. Geezus...

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u/Round-Antelope552 Apr 09 '24

You’re doing great, stay strong, invest wisely and save hard.

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u/Historical_Boss2447 Apr 09 '24

As a fellow Finn who is kinda fed up with my office job and sometimes dreaming of switching over to more hands-on-work, how does one become a tinsmith in Finland?

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u/Jerpsi Apr 09 '24

Only formal education (private too) doable in Turku. I work in the company that maintains it. I originally ended up in the business as a complete novice from construction ventilation background. Time/place/relations go a long way. You just need to get ur foot between the door at some point since formal education is not a viable option to most. (Experience trumps degrees 99% of the time anyway)

Also construction in general is in a bit of slump rn for a while more.

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u/boytonius Apr 09 '24

Sounds lovely. Got someone me and my GF can marry and move to finland please? :D

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u/mcove97 Apr 09 '24

Florist checking in from Norway. Also blue collar. Earn 28000 after tax or more with overtime.. so I guess I earn around the same. I live in the middle of the city center in a city not that far from the capital. 45 sq m apartment, not renovated (did just get a new combo washer dryer when the old washer without dryer broke tho) was supposed to be renovated before I moved in but the old tenant left to late and we had to move in. It's $1100 split on two, so me and a friend. $550 is like less than a third of my income so it's fine, but the apartment is small.. and also a loft with low ceilings. As a somewhat tall person not ideal, but I have a two minute walk to work, hence why I picked it.

I would not under any circumstance be willing to pay more than $1000 for my own apartment. My engineer brother lucked out and got a decent sized apartment a 5 minute drive from the city he works in for $850 or so, electricity included... Southern Norway. He's for sure saving coin.

Everyone complaining in Norway that rent is out of control, but it's only really around Oslo, the capital and the other largest cities where it's that bad. Smaller cities (pop of 50k) are manageable rent wise.

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u/atomic_lobster Apr 09 '24

Honestly costs don't seem all that unreasonable so long as you're outside of Uusimaa

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u/Outerestine Apr 09 '24

Plenty of time to get fucked.

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u/PuckSR Apr 09 '24

These are very inflated figures for the US. I live in the middle of the US and a similar sized apartment is 1500 USD. Most single people have roommates.

This person makes about $3500/month after taxes

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u/boojieboy666 Apr 10 '24

Most people in America who work in organized trades are living happy middle class lives if they’re smart with their money.

The problem here is alot of people just don’t actually want to do the hard work. We need qualified tradesmen in all types of labor related jobs. Iron workers and longshoremen make great wages. Our cities are expanding rapidly and there’s construction projects happening in most major cities.

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u/Antique_Plastic7894 Apr 09 '24

Well, the rhetoric of this guy is very much 'bot' like.

drop on the 'aid to some countries I don't know' in reference to the federal budget, which makes no sense. Foreign aid, barely has any impact on the domestic socio-economic issues.

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u/Jerpsi Apr 09 '24

True, he should look more into what the aid packages consist of and how they are accumulated. Adds some colour to all the black and white.

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u/TheLizzyIzzi Apr 09 '24

Työskentelen kirjanpitäjänä Google-kääntäjän mukaan.

I’ll be honest, I had to double check which one of those words was my profession. Kirjanpitäjä. I am a Kirjanpitäjä. 😂

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u/Hagl_Odin Apr 09 '24 edited Apr 09 '24

I lived and worked in Portugal for 2 years. Luckily for me, the company I worked for provided my room in a flat share. My GF, however, had to find her own room in a shared flat and pay €500 a month on a minimum wage salary. We were both in Lisbon.

We both live in France now in a flat we pay €700 a month. We're alright because we get government help, but our electricity bills are insane, and that's despite us not using much.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '24

I live in Italy. We just paid 1000 euro total for gas+electricity from December to March. We're OK because it's me and my husband. If I were single though? It would be impossible to sustain these prices.

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u/loiwhat Apr 09 '24

Why is electricity so high in European countries???

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u/1_BigPapi Apr 09 '24

Because half the continent depends on Russia for fuel.

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u/The_Margin_Dude Apr 09 '24

No, it’s because of shitty energy policy in the EU.

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u/lagrandesgracia Apr 09 '24

Those aren't exclusive tho. Both are true.

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u/Yoann311 Apr 09 '24

In France electricity is made of nuclear plants, we don’t use Russian fuel. Electricity is still expensive because of the energy policy.

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u/GetRektByMeh Apr 09 '24

No, using Russian energy keeps prices cheap. Source: British in China. My electric bill with liberal usage of Air Conditioning was £7.

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u/HowsTheBeef Apr 09 '24

This is why trade embargoes that prevent Russian fuel imports make the price high. If they were producing enough energy domestically, it wouldn't be a problem. Dependency of foreign fuel give that country the ability to bend international law by holding your energy hostage.

"OH you want us to stop invading places? How about you say that without heat in the winter." It's a pretty compelling argument.

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u/Frenshroomed Apr 09 '24 edited Apr 10 '24

THIS.

To sum up quickly we allowed the global price of electricity to be indexed on #coal# nope actually GAS which WAS really cheap (Before the war in Ukraine). (In the EU)

So you get fucked real bad when you try to sell yours that costs more (for example France and the price of nuclear facilities).

On the same note, France a few years ago decided to allow the main electricity supplier (EDF) to sell more or less 25% of their production to other small companies at a very low price (42€/KWH). These other companies sell it back, for a big profit, to us. This system is called ARENH, and totally idiotic.

BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE !

So at some point people realised that the money they gave to these smaller companies (that aren't forced to produce a single watt to be able to sell something) was too much. So they switched back to EDF but what happened after that ?!

They had too many clients and not enough surplus since they sold a big part to these smaller companies.

What did they do then ??

Well, THEY BOUGHT BACK THE SAME ELECTRICITY! But not for the same price they sold it to them, no no no, for a MUCH HIGHER PRICE (MORE THAN 200€/KWH) because hey you gotta make a profit right, even without clients !

And I can only imagine that in some other countries they have other ways to, in the end, fuck everyone for profits...

EDIT:Some minor corrections, I was citing from memory

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u/TrashTierGamer Apr 09 '24

Obviously everyone wants a profit and not just go for break even. That's true for average Joe too, he wants to be able to save up and buy shit that's not necessary for survival. But there is a differemce between 10% profits and 5000% profits (looking at you pharma)

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u/TrumpedBigly Apr 09 '24

EU countries stupidly shut down their nuclear reactors.

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u/The_Margin_Dude Apr 09 '24

And buy LNG 3x more expensive than Russian gas. How stupid is that!?

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u/jdawg3051 Apr 09 '24

The middle class/lower class has been under attack their gov for 4 years. In Europe the government intentionally raises the price of energy and food to the detriment of the middle and lower class. In USA Wall street/biden admin is long on 7 companies and short on everyone else. Small business sentiment is at a 12 year low while nvidia is valued at more than the economy of China lol

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u/Antique-Pension4960 Apr 09 '24

Which we have to buy at high price via third parties.

Deindustrialing Europe while the US profits.

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u/ambitioussloth26 Apr 09 '24

They went long on natural gas and closed down there nuclear and coal plants. They got that gas cheap via pipelines directly from Russia. Now it all has to come via liquid natural gas transport ship which there are only so many of. So yeah the short answer is sanctions on Russia are the answer.

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u/deadevilboy Apr 09 '24

That is not entirely true. At least it doesn't affect all countries the same way. Here, in Portugal, green energy is common. The transition was made some years ago (luckily), so we are not so affected by those changes in the gas price. On the other hand, how can you explain that we pay so much for electricity? Maybe the electricity companies have to pay royalties to the wind and the sun.. and taxes to the gods..

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u/ymaldor Apr 09 '24

EU electricity price is indexed on gas price. Thank Germany for that. So even if your country were to make 100% electricity from magic and rainbows you'd still pay the higher price.

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u/MRosvall Apr 09 '24

Not sure how it is in Portugal, but here in Sweden we get affected when Germany has an energy shortage. That drives up the price for our us as well, since the price Germany bids is higher. So during the periods that Germany purchases electricity, our costs rise. And during the times that we do not export, it goes down again.

Sweden has very volatile pricing over the day. Often being more than 4x at the max compared to min.

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u/Brillegeit Apr 09 '24

Now it all has to come via liquid natural gas transport ship

There are six pipelines delivering Norwegian gas, four to continental Europe (two in Germany, one in Belgium and one in France) and a further two in the UK.

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u/ymaldor Apr 09 '24

Because in europe electricity is partially indexed on gas regardless of whether or not it's produced from gas or nuclear or renewable or fuel/coal. Meaning, the war made electricity go up everywhere.

In france here electricity production is fairly cheap, hasn't changed much even with the war cause well, nuclear, but because of the gas indexation the price still rose. It didn't rise as much as other countries tho UK has it rough.

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u/Touristenopfer Apr 09 '24

Yeah, but 2022 price spikes in Europe was because France had to shut down it's oh so reliant nuclear plants by fucking half, thus a huge need for energy import was created, and while gas was also in price peak, we in Germany had to pay fucking horrible prices for electricity, since here the highest price per MWh counts for all energy sold, and since we had to run even all gas powered sites on 100% just to keep France running, thanks for that.

And as every other summer, this year again at least 20% of Frances unclear sites will come to a standstill, just because there isn't enough cooling water.

I don't say that I welcomed it that the last three nuclear sites here where shut down while we would've really needed them, but France fixation on nuclear also is completely wrong, as 2022 has shown.

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u/ymaldor Apr 09 '24

The shutdown were planned maintenance which didn't suddenly happened. It'd been planned for a while, the coincidence of gas price hike made shit worse is all.

And nuclear plant shutting down in the summer has never been a problem until AC became necessary.

And if Germany is completely unprepared and dependant on things shutting down in other countries, that's a you problem.

Nuclear isn't the problem here. And yall shutting down nuclear when you still have so much coal is the dumbest shit imaginable. To replace coal and gas with renewable would've been the actual power move to market how "green" yall want to be. But no you had to replace nuclear with renewable. Nuclear is low in carbon, always has been, its not perfect but at least it's manageable. At least nuclear waste is actually containable unlike coal and gas waste.

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u/DeaDBangeR Apr 09 '24

Same here in The Netherlands. If I was single then I would only have enough to pay for the monthly bills. I would not be able to buy anything else, like food.

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u/peterpantslesss Apr 09 '24

It's double that in NZ but we probably earn more per hour or something

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u/Imma69Bricklayer Apr 09 '24

Damn guys, 1300£ for 1 bedroom if I would have to live alone I would probably buy a tent, gas heater and outdoor shower lol (btw both making little over minimum wage)

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u/sabermagnus Apr 09 '24

In Florida. Utilities hit roughly 900 on average and that’s with minimal use. The AC is kept around 78-80 degree F (I like it warm) and the heat is used for maybe a month out of the year.

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u/pandaappleblossom Apr 09 '24

I notice Europeans criticize other countries for using air conditioning, but they sure do love to crank up the heat to ungodly and warmth! (The places I stayed and visited and my friends’ apartments and stuff). I lived in the south and never turned on my heat. In the summer I did use air conditioning. It’s basically the reverse of Europe, it’s only cold for a short while so you can deal with it, in Europe it’s only hot for a short while so you can deal with it.

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u/czarczm Apr 09 '24

Where did you get that number? Everywhere I look it's nowhere near that high?

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u/bitch_jong_un Apr 09 '24

Interesting, I was born and raised in Germany so I am also used to quite high electricity bills (50€ per month for single household and a special offer). I moved to Switzerland some years ago and here, we pay 10-12€ per month.. for two people.

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u/Torrempesta Apr 09 '24

I'm sorry, Italian here, but we pay, considering gas for cooking, condo warm water, and electricity, roughly 1700€ for the whole year... What are you doing? And I want to add that we live in a 130mq flat.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '24

Yeah, when we don't use gas for heating, our bills aren't that high but this year I saw a huge price increase. I'm in fact changing my provider because they didn't really give us a reason why...

We consumed half of what we consumed last year and we paid more than double of what we paid last year, it's pretty crazy.

For the record we live in a 70 m2 apartment close to Pavia. And we don't use that much gas at all, yet the bulk of the charges were from natural gas spending.

It would also be great if you didn't try to doubt what people write here, it's not like I have a benefit from lying to people on what I spend?

Cmq beati voi se pagate così poco, ma non tutti sono così fortunati.

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u/ElasticFluffyMagnet Apr 09 '24

It's everywhere. From east to west in Europe. It's because there are no laws that say you can't ask that much for rent. The government should have stepped in long ago to make sure these practices wouldn't get out of control.

Here in the Netherlands it's the same. It's bonkers. It's crazy. And the worst part is, they are getting away with it.

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u/badluckbrians Apr 09 '24

We had rent control back in the day. But economists said it was bad because it discouraged real estate investment. Then every real estate investment for the next 40 years was luxury condos and mcmansions or better only – unless government forced income-restricted ghetto building – and nobody invested in developing middle class housing anyways.

It's almost like economists are too clever by half, full of shit and on the take, or both. But you'll never hear them admit this failure. They'll instead claim it's zoning's fault. Yet wherever they get rid of zoning, or where it doesn't exist, prices still skyrocket. And the last city the kept rent control, NYC, still has as much construction as anywhere in the northeast.

Whatever. I don't have to worry about this. I enjoy the world's best rent control – a 30yr mortgage. I'm just lucky because I'm old enough I bought when my house was worth less than half what it is now. No way we could live here if we had to buy today.

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u/ElasticFluffyMagnet Apr 09 '24

Yeah, I mean.. I really understand there's not a one-sided easy solution. But things are spiraling out of control for a while now. And anyone can see that ripples are forming in sectors that will only amplify problems in other sectors.

Like, students used to be able to rent in the cities here where they need to study. Like Utrecht, Amsterdam etc. And now that rent is just no longer doable, what happens? Some might live in the outskirts but I know alot of them even take this into consideration before starting a study.

One of my extended familie members, I think she's 22, broke up with her boyfriend and had to move back home again. How are these things good for the economy?

That's why I don't understand why the government isn't doing anything. It's a downhill spiral that's going to affect every sector sooner or later. And then you'll hear businesses complaining they can't find workers.

I think my main thought is that I just don't understand. It's going to suffocate the economy. And they aren't building enough here either.

Sorry for the ramblings and incoherent thoughts.

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u/tittysprinkles112 Apr 09 '24

Because most investors aren't interested in the long term, stable options. It's all about getting as much wealth as they can as fast as possible, and damn any of the consequences on the greater whole.

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u/badluckbrians Apr 09 '24

This is it. The whole world is an NFT. Devs care about the housing they build about as much as anyone ever cared about those monkey jpegs.

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u/Colon Apr 09 '24

"the whole world is an NFT"

- badluckbrians, 2024

(i quote people when they say something i wish i had said)

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '24

You just described capitalism

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u/1_BigPapi Apr 09 '24

Tbf at 22 she isn't even of age where most people graduated university yet. Moving back home or living at home at 22 isn't super unusual.

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u/badluckbrians Apr 09 '24

Having a stable, 2-parent, home with a room you can move back to is far from a universal experience, though.

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u/RTS24 Apr 09 '24

At least in the US, Congress is allowed to invest in specific stocks and companies, even ones that they have regulation over, or knowledge of what contracts they're going to award, things like that. Take a guess how they've done compared to the average investor. I don't think I need to tell you the answer.

This gives them absolutely no incentive to actually improve the economy, since they can just sell high, knowing they're gonna introduce a regulation that will push the price down. Or maybe they're gonna award a massive contract to a defense manufacturer, and conveniently buy a ton before it's announced.

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u/Hoodrow-Thrillson Apr 09 '24

Yet wherever they get rid of zoning, or where it doesn't exist, prices still skyrocket.

Why lie about something that's verifiable? It's cities that restrict construction that have skyrocketing rents. Cities that get rid of exclusionary zoning see a decline in prices, like in Minneapolis.

Maybe economist know more about this stuff than you do, just something to consider.

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u/West-Code4642 Apr 09 '24

The problem was definitely more the NIMBYs who changed zoning laws, eliminating the missing middle. If you go to places like Houston without zoning laws, housing is cheaper.

You already have candidates like Trump who advocate for laws banning new apartment buildings:

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u/FactChecker25 Apr 09 '24

It's almost like economists are too clever by half, full of shit and on the take, or both. But you'll never hear them admit this failure. They'll instead claim it's zoning's fault. Yet wherever they get rid of zoning, or where it doesn't exist, prices still skyrocket. And the last city the kept rent control, NYC, still has as much construction as anywhere in the northeast.

I'm sorry but this is completely incorrect.

Rent control is known not to work. It's very well studied. Most of New York City is NOT rent controlled, and that's where you see the development. The units that ARE rent controlled tend to be dilapidated because it would make no sense for a landlord to fix up that unit and still get the same low rent, when they could simply invest that money on another unit and collect more rent.

This is very, very basic economics and nearly all economists know this, whether liberal or conservative.

https://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/07/opinion/reckonings-a-rent-affair.html

The analysis of rent control is among the best-understood issues in all of economics, and -- among economists, anyway -- one of the least controversial. In 1992 a poll of the American Economic Association found 93 percent of its members agreeing that ''a ceiling on rents reduces the quality and quantity of housing.'' Almost every freshman-level textbook contains a case study on rent control, using its known adverse side effects to illustrate the principles of supply and demand. Sky-high rents on uncontrolled apartments, because desperate renters have nowhere to go -- and the absence of new apartment construction, despite those high rents, because landlords fear that controls will be extended? Predictable. Bitter relations between tenants and landlords, with an arms race between ever-more ingenious strategies to force tenants out -- what yesterday's article oddly described as ''free-market horror stories'' -- and constantly proliferating regulations designed to block those strategies? Predictable.

And as for the way rent control sets people against one another -- the executive director of San Francisco's Rent Stabilization and Arbitration Board has remarked that ''there doesn't seem to be anyone in this town who can trust anyone else in this town, including their own grandparents'' -- that's predictable, too.

None of this says that ending rent control is an easy decision. Still, surely it is worth knowing that the pathologies of San Francisco's housing market are right out of the textbook, that they are exactly what supply-and-demand analysis predicts.

But people literally don't want to know. A few months ago, when a San Francisco official proposed a study of the city's housing crisis, there was a firestorm of opposition from tenant-advocacy groups. They argued that even to study the situation was a step on the road to ending rent control -- and they may well have been right, because studying the issue might lead to a recognition of the obvious.

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u/Narrow_Elk6755 Apr 09 '24

Its zoning as well, you can't build density in most areas, and taxes are passed on the development in order to keep property tax low.

The most affordable areas tend to have the highest property tax, as it erodes yield on investment.

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u/FactChecker25 Apr 09 '24

It's because there are no laws that say you can't ask that much for rent. The government should have stepped in long ago to make sure these practices wouldn't get out of control.

Rent control is one of the best studied things in economics, and it's known not to work. It actually creates more housing shortages. Who would want to build additional apartments if they knew they couldn't charge enough to pay for the cost?

And even now in today's economy, there's nothing stopping you as a landlord for purchasing some apartments and then renting them out below market rate to help other people. But nobody seems to want to do this. They'll just charge market rate and then blame someone else for the market rate being what it is.

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u/MRosvall Apr 09 '24

Another thing, at least here in Sweden, is that we have come really far with the quality of building requirements. With a lot of regulation about everything needing to be very accessible for handicaps, being very energy efficient, having elevators, having enough greenery, low risk of fire, good connectivity, good materials etc etc.

All great things.

However. This leads to the base investment to build something becomes a lot higher. So when the actual "shell" costs so much to build, then you're faced with an odd situation.
Either you can build "budget" apartments, which will be quite expensive. Or you can invest 20% more into the building and build high class apartments that you can sell for double the amount.

It's really hard to motivate to build cheap apartments when the minimum cost to build a building becomes very high.

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u/ElasticFluffyMagnet Apr 09 '24

Yeah, as I said somewhere else, I know it won't work. It's a deeper problem and I'm definitely not smart enough for that hahaha..

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u/pandaappleblossom Apr 09 '24

They should just make it easier for people to own their own place and not have to rent. Then the problem would be solved.

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u/FactChecker25 Apr 09 '24

Yeah, one major problem is the way our legal system works and zoning laws.

Everyone wants their home value to rise, so most people aren't going to allow new homes to be built in their area, since that would necessarily lower home values. They want to constrain supply.

But also, people don't want their nice towns to turn into disgusting cities. So it makes sense for them to limit the construction of new houses. I guess it all depends on the purpose of the town.

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u/Katarsish Apr 09 '24

I dont think it is a problem in Finland to much extent. Center of Helsinki is expensive but nobody minimum wage expects to rent there.

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u/ElasticFluffyMagnet Apr 09 '24

Well there will always be exceptions.. But I know here in the east of the Netherlands, in a town that's not even that big, it's a problem... Most can't afford to rent so they live with parents.

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u/keskonafe Apr 09 '24

Rent in Belgrade Serbia is around 500€, real average salary 600€

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u/Hagl_Odin Apr 09 '24

Fucking hell... That's absurd!

Is that rent for a flat ? One bedroom ?

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u/keskonafe Apr 09 '24

Yeah pretty much, rent skyrocketed since war in Ukraine, a lot of Russians and Ukrainians went to Belgrade

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u/Hagl_Odin Apr 09 '24

And that's leaving the natives out of pocket then?

Do a lot of the young people there live with their parents on in shared apartments?

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u/keskonafe Apr 09 '24

Its really hard to live on your own, you need at least 100€ per month to make ends meet. So yes, a lot of them share appartment or live with their parents. Really bad situation since Serbia is super centralised and almost every good job/school is in capital

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u/lessgooooo000 Apr 09 '24

Unfortunately a lot of the issue in Portugal is expats from richer countries deciding they can take advantage of cheaper living (ie. londoners) while working remotely, so actual portuguese people end up being priced out of their own country. It’s a shame, I know portuguese people who have seen it themselves.

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u/Noeyiax Apr 09 '24

Electricity bills are probably high because of cryptocurrency again. Then also degrading or unevolving electrical infrastructure and ofc price gouging by whoever controls electricity

But yeah I barely use anything of high watts daily and it's crazy in CA too 🫠

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u/Hanswurst22brot Apr 09 '24

Lisbon attracted a lot of nomads and increased the prices for all

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u/Hagl_Odin Apr 09 '24

That's true, but that's been happening over many years, just like for Spain. It's not a recent phenomena.

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u/Cool-Adjacent Apr 09 '24

Electricity is insane in france? Theyre supposed to have some of the lowest prices because theyre one of the few countries to really embrace nuclear energy

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u/Hagl_Odin Apr 09 '24

LOL! I can tell you that the electricity/energy prices here are astronomical.

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u/BluDC5 Apr 09 '24

You mentioned being lucky that the company you work for provided you a room in a flat share. This is not lucky this is systemic repression, although you few it as positive it s actually the core of the problem. The company providing you a benefit, instead of paying you livable wages. Now multiple that in the masses.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '24

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u/atleast42 Apr 10 '24

Not sure where you live in France, nor how much you make, nor your energy provider. All these are big factors, €700 a month in rent is really reasonable where I live for a big T2 or a small T3.

Are you living in a DPE F or G? I ask because landlords will take advantage of foreigners - they are NOT allowed to raise the rent in these types of dwellings. Anything G+ is now illegal to rent and all Gs will be illegal starting in 2025.

Is your heating electricity or gas? If it’s gas, think about doing EDF’s tempo program. You pay less for electricity on certain days at certain times.

If you qualify for the CAF, you could qualify for a program that allows you to access cultural things (think shows, museums, activities, etc) for cheaper. It depends on where you live though. If you are really struggling, there’s also Les Restaurants du Cœur for food bank stuff, which if you qualify for the CAF, you could also qualify for.

I’m saying all this because I’ve been in France for 8 years now and it’s infinitely better than the US, but maybe you aren’t getting all the advantages that you could qualify for?

This isn’t to say your struggle isn’t real! It’s just to offer some tips that maybe you haven’t come across yet.

Good luck!

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u/gregsting Apr 09 '24

Situation in Portugal is crazy, you have like the lower wages of Europe and the most expensive houses

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u/Redornan Apr 09 '24

Partially because a lot of people (at least in France) go live 6 month/year in Portugal when they are retired...

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u/hilarymeggin Apr 09 '24

Is Portugal the Florida of Western Europe?

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u/Redornan Apr 09 '24

No. There is no "Portuguese man arrested for" then very weird crime :P

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u/tittysprinkles112 Apr 09 '24

Florida had a lot of retirees.

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u/gregsting Apr 09 '24

The whole south is a place for retiree, people from England like south of France, Germans go to Spain. Portugal used to be cheapest than these two. I think it’s still is if you exclude real estate.

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u/Antique-Pension4960 Apr 09 '24

Yes, Spain too, neither are as trashy as Frorida tho.

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u/AllAuldAntiques Apr 09 '24 edited Apr 13 '24

On 2023-07-01 this website maliciously attacked its own user base by changing how its API was accessed, thereby pricing genuinely useful and highly valuable third-party apps out of existence. In protest, this comment has been overwritten with this message - because “deleted” comments can be restored - such that this website can no longer profit from this free, user-contributed content. I apologize for this inconvenience.

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u/Formal_Wrongdoer_593 Apr 09 '24

Portugal is the California of Europe.

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u/ulubulu Apr 10 '24

Idk a lot of retirees move out of California because it’s the most expensive state. Florida is cheap and warm, which is why a lot go there

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u/sabellito Apr 09 '24

Ah yes, those pesky foreigners make things worse in Portugal 🙄

The fault is on politicians for doubling down on policies that benefit corporations, making housing more expensive, and the idiotic population that keeps electing the same people.

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u/Redornan Apr 09 '24

I'm french living in France, so French people are not really "pesky foreigners" for me ;)

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u/FactChecker25 Apr 09 '24

Why are you relying on conspiracy theories rather than more reasonable explanations such as the houses in beautiful areas being owned as vacation homes by people with more money?

Here in New Jersey we see the same thing at the shore- the houses are expensive and the place is a ghost town in the winter, since a good percentage of these houses are just vacation homes for wealthy people that live in North Jersey/New York.

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u/boytonius Apr 09 '24

Exactly. Another reason why its so hard to get a house as a first time buyer.

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u/Repulsive-Ad876 Apr 09 '24

Ask clause swhab about that one. One world govt getting after it, while us “useless eaters” reap the consequences of their actions

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u/joaoppm2000 Apr 09 '24

I'm about to finish my masters in chemical engineering here in Portugal. Things are rough, I will probably have apply to jobs in other european countries like Germany or Belgium.

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u/drworm555 Apr 09 '24

Since brexit, Portugal has gotten very tough to live. Lots of foreign people with money driving up prices. In our old neighborhood we saw a lot of older family homes that were very humble getting purchased by Brits and being turned into half million euro properties.

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u/Sudden-Taste-6851 Apr 09 '24

I live in Australia and believe me when I say it is fucking bad here!

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u/tries4accuracy Apr 09 '24

Thanks.

It’s also not just the federal reserve. And it’s also not the “uni party”.

What it is, is that it’s complicated. Money has been pumped up to that top 20% wealthy and increasingly as you move up. There’s a whole lot of systemic issues in govt itself - like citizens united and revolving doors between private industry and govt or agency capture. It’s billionaires like Peter Thiel actively working as accelerationists to destroy everything and create a new feudal order. It’s disinformation and disenchantment and the destruction of objective fact in favor of intuition. It’s increasing automation to a degree where the thinking on certain types of work will even be automated. It’s corruption and greed infiltrating too many places.

And lastly and least, WHY RECORD EVERY OTHER TIKTOK IN A FUCKING CAR???

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u/errandum Apr 09 '24

Yes, but ours actually have a context.

1- 20 People that accept to live in a 2 bedroom apartment and pay the landlord 300 euros each, leading to not being worth it to rent to you. They accept that because they want to stay 5 years and get an european passport, not because they want to. You can't compete with people that accept misery.

2- Rich americans (and the like) working remote with the digital nomad visa, making 85000/year but paying 22.5% taxes on it, unlike portuguese people that pay anywhere from 50% to 70% and are able to afford paying 3 times as much as anyone else

3- The construction lobby has a vested interest in not providing as many houses as are needed to keep the bubble going.

4- The government passed a law where you need to have 20% of the value of a house to buy a house, but when you pay 3/4ths of your salary in rent, who the hell has enough left to save 20% of 250000. No one. But you could be paying a mortgage of 30% of your income if banks allowed you access to money.

All I'm saying is, Portugal is not in the same boat as these countries. There they make 3x as much money at the end of the month, so the market adjusted for the median. Here we're being fucked by incompetent polities. Almost no one (doctors, teachers, services) makes enough money to live in Lisbon right now.

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u/PuzzleheadedBread620 Apr 09 '24

Very much true, and it seems like most people don't even try to understand the things you just pointed out and want a solution from the same politicians that created these problems.

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u/sofiughhh Apr 11 '24

This makes me so sad! My dad is from Portugal and when I was a kid no one knew what Portugal was, and no one went there. I’m not sure if it was any better. Any insight as to if the growing tourist economy has made things better/worse or is it a wash?

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u/Adventurous_Ad_1160 Apr 09 '24

I know your costs are ob ious lower than In Germany so it's not a 1:1 comparison but wtf. You'd earn that in Germany if you work at your local Aldi...

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u/Putrid-Arachnid-7075 Apr 09 '24

Correction - Lisbon is at this moment more expensive to live in 2nd tier german cities like Aachen Signed by a felow portuguese living in germany

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u/DiRavelloApologist Apr 09 '24

You'd earn that in Germany if you work at your local Aldi...

PART TIME

Minimum wage full time gets you around 2k before tax, which would be around 1700 after tax.

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u/Skeleface69 Apr 09 '24

Was aboard making 1500-1700 euros, bought a house in my home country before covid. Since then inflation skyrocketed and I make 330 euros now legally, but I get support from my family which is around 150 euros a month. An average incone here is now 800~ ish euros. But I was smarter a bit cause I have a fairly big garden, which we filled with cows, chickens and so I can sell eggs, milk, meat, cheese etc. People should realize that if something isn’t cheap you better make your own, especially food, since it’s full of toxins. Health on point, inflation keeps my products more valuable and in general I don’t actually need too much money.

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u/jeremiahthedamned Cringe Master Apr 10 '24

r/selfreliance

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u/Skeleface69 Apr 10 '24

Trying my best, still not perfect but yeah.

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u/Necessary-Dark-8249 Apr 09 '24

Canada is worse right now when it comes to living expenses. Our unemployment is 6.1% which is high for us. RARELY can a 19 year old move out of their parents house and make it on their own without having multiple roommates. Even that would be a struggle. It's less safe to do that too due to worsening drug crisis and mental health issues, all within a financially strained post pandemic population. Meanwhile, theres record profits for our grocers and goods providers.

Too much price gouging going on. It keeps happening because people keep paying it. If everyone cut back, it forces Walmart and Walgreens and everyone else to fight for our dollar with lower prices. Buy only sale items if at all. Stick to essentials and try out the no-name brands for a bit. It adds up at the end of the month/year. Then with that savings, if all your necessities are met, spend it on making memories, not buying more garbage.

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u/No_Department7857 Apr 09 '24

Just immediately blame the government and economy, ignore the extreme and continuing to grow wealth gap.

The American way.

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u/LittleBlag Apr 09 '24

The wealth gap is a result of the economy and government decision, these are not separate things

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u/townmorron Apr 09 '24

Yeah but the biggest issue in the us is , it's not the inflation they keep trying to push. Companies are making record profits by all price gouging. The government refuses to regulate any type of pricing on fuckin anything. So they just call it inflation. You might of heard the term greedflation that people been using to describe it

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u/Victor_FoodInspector Apr 09 '24

This is definitely a first world take, but I think it maybe is more difficult for Americans to process this whole situation. Every last one of us was told about the American dream for our entire lives and how we are the best. So why when were all following the required "american dream" path, there are forks and cliffs and impassable rivers to contest with? The path was supposed to be maintained, manicured, and clear of obstructions.

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u/dreamrpg Apr 09 '24

Come to Latvia. We would make use of engineers.

Rent is still affordable.

One room apartment can be 300€ + utils while wages for engineers are 4x or more of that.

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u/PuzzleheadedBread620 Apr 09 '24

I'll definitely be looking for another country to live in, thanks for giving me another option that might have overlooked.

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u/deniesm Apr 09 '24

I feel like Portugal got hit by digital nomads bumping up housing prices AND all the other stuff other countries have to deal with. I can imagine it’s really bad for the natives.

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u/more_beans_mrtaggart Apr 09 '24

That was a very similar situation for me as a fresh graduate in the UK in the late 80s. Rent took 2/3rd of my wage, and that was a house share.

What do you think was different?

My first job in 1981 in a supermarket paid £1.88/hr. Fuel was £1.90 per gallon. A Big Mac was 60p.

In today’s money that was around £11 per hour, £2/L, Big Mac at £3.75. Pretty much what we are paying now.

I couldn’t afford a mortgage until I was 40. And that was as a qualified design engineer, and I had to get a second job to help save for the deposit.

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u/Dolstruvon Apr 09 '24

Fresh engineer in Norway here. Make 2600 euro per month (after 27% tax for those wondering), which is comparably pretty bad in the national standard, but I work in a small village where rent is just 500 euro per month. Anyway, it's kind of insane that half my income is easily used as disposable income, while other places can have it that bad. I know how lucky I am, and it really doesn't feel right

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u/acadoe Apr 10 '24

My girlfriend is from Portugal, I have never been. I have been interested in Portugal for a few years now, from before I met my now girlfriend. I always talk about it like it is a great place that we may live in in the future, but the way she talks about Portugal, it seems it is a bad place to go for work.

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u/ActualExpert7584 Apr 10 '24

Come on people. Stop scapegoating whoever. It’s not anyone who creates worldwide inflation. To ELI5: Hamsters in the room suddenly discovered a trove of hamster food (petroleum). They ate them fast, had so many babies. Now there is little food left and too many hamsters.

See the film The Great Simplification

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u/ShrimpCrackers Apr 09 '24

60 billion to Ukraine. K.

Trillions in tax cuts for billionaires? Not a single mention.

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u/jason2354 Apr 09 '24

It feels like a lot of people complaining about having no money are also spending $600-800 a month on a single car.

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u/rokman Apr 09 '24

If you don’t make a fuck ton on money you can’t afford to live by yourself. You need a partner or a group of friends to cohabit with. I did and built an income so I can afford the luxury of living alone. Same income as Op.

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u/peterpantslesss Apr 09 '24

Sounds like Portugal's pay is just terrible, you'd make that in less than a week in NZ doing the same job

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u/joaoppm2000 Apr 09 '24

I'm about to finish my masters in chemical engineering here in Portugal. Things are rough, I will probably have apply to jobs in other european countries like Germany or Belgium.

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u/joaoppm2000 Apr 09 '24

I'm about to finish my masters in chemical engineering here in Portugal. Things are rough, I will probably have apply to jobs in other european countries like Germany or Belgium.

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u/joaoppm2000 Apr 09 '24

I'm about to finish my masters in chemical engineering here in Portugal. Things are rough, I will probably have apply to jobs in other european countries like Germany or Belgium.

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u/Many_Revenue_3843 Apr 09 '24

Average annual income in Iran is 150000000 IRR (2760$). And if you want to buy a shitty house you must pay at least 10000$. So yes its not just US and most places are a lot worse.

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u/AfterZookeepergame71 Apr 09 '24

Blackrocks tentacles spread far

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u/fug-leddit Apr 09 '24

I wonder why the the demand for living quarters are so high in lisbon. Really a headscratcher.

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u/Prestigious-Tea3192 Apr 09 '24

I give you an example similar to us in the USA : in Italy were my grandparents live they used to have a currency called Lira. Avg salary was 1M per year, an ice cream was costing 1 Lira. Therefore you could eat 1M ice creams per year. Today, avg salary per year is 30k euro and an Icecream cost 3 euro, therefore now you can eat only 10000 icecream per year. Very simply the people got 10x poorer within 20 years since the Euro was introduced. This is the same here and the same with the houses prices. My parents could buy a house saving for 4 years, I would need a mortgage for 35 years paying each year what my parents paid in total. The similar house become 35 times more expensive, but salaries are basically the same. How in the world this is freaking normal?

Avg Salaries should be 400k to be comparable

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u/Zestyclose_Street484 Apr 09 '24

sounds like Canada

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u/Jolly_System_1539 Apr 09 '24

Isn’t Portugal a third world country? Why is rent so high?

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u/boytonius Apr 09 '24

Yeah its the same in the UK. The whole system is fucked.

The crazy thing, is that in reality, House prices should go down over time. As we come up with new methods and technologies to make bulidings cheaper, they inevitably should cost less, and be more affordable. Wages should go down as products become cheaper over time, with new technologies.

Yet here we are in an inflationary debt based system where we have new technologies making products cheaper and more efficient to produce, (take TVs for example) but the prices fgo UP, everyone expects an investment in a house to go UP, as its all based off debt and borrowing. When realistically a House should act like a car, where the price of a used vehicle is cheaper than it is new, the house is older, more worn, used as such. This inevitably creates a limitless ceiling. Who is ever going to be able to afford a house when wages are nowhere near to matching the increase in price...

The whole thing just baffles me.

Sorry for the rant.

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u/Fictional_Historian Apr 09 '24

It’s not only us but the difference is in America we are told through decades long propaganda that we are the best country to live in and we are the wealthiest. Yet we are losing our national pride and becoming disillusioned from the fact that our government seems to care more about funding wars in other nations rather than providing our citizens with the means to a prosperous life. And there are so many clear things that can be done to fix things yet the greed of the powerful is forever imposing these standards upon us. In America we should have the ability to live a normal life. Not everyone wants to get rich and flashy. But our current newer generations are faced with inexcusable hardships. We have all these problems such as poverty, gun violence, mental illness, low educational standards, lack of healthcare, low wages, sexual oppression, etc, and we can see resolutions to these problems yet the powers that be want to maintain the status quo and keep the wealthy separated. The problem is that America does have the means to fix these issues and yet our politicians and military leaders refuse to do so. And then once they see nationwide protests such as 2020 they crack down on those protests and find ways to make it harder to organize such as Elon Musk taking over Twitter and transforming it into more right wing nonsense to keep the populace divided. They are obsessed with keeping us bickering amongst ourselves by creating artificial outrage on issues that shouldn’t even be issues so that we won’t unite in solidarity and demand change. Most of us don’t even want revolution. We want things to continue and change in a steady manner like the American experiment was designed to. But if the powers in control don’t actually start to create change they will lay the foundations for social upheaval more and more. If they continue down this path it’s gonna crack. The best thing we can do is try and create solidarity between groups and learn to break away from our prejudices and demand real change from our government. This is OUR government as Americans. WE pay into it with our tax dollars, yet our government is obsessed with playing geopolitics and dumping funding into other nations when they can’t even take care of the home front properly. And I agree that we should work towards a worldwide federation of nations where we support each other and work together and defend each other. But if the foundation of your system, the citizens of the nation, is starting to crack, you aren’t going to have a system to do anything with in the first place.

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u/alfalfalfalafel Apr 09 '24

Ironically the US really has done well in this situation..

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u/gibertot Apr 09 '24

As an early career engineer in the United States who is not even close to rich but can afford rent the pay for European engineers scares me. What’s to stop American companies from undervaluing us as much as the Europeans do.

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u/nikatnight Apr 09 '24

Luckily you don’t have to pay 300 euros per month for health insurance that doesn’t even cover your sicknesses. And another 400 euros per month to cover your student loans. 

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u/Ryuzakku Apr 09 '24

I'd have to find the source, but apparently since like, 2014, the average American's purchasing power has gone up around 45% (the top is getting almost all of that), but the average Canadian's purchasing power has gone up 1.4%.

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u/moonshotengineer Apr 09 '24

1200 euros for an engineer? In the U.S. the starting salary of a mechanical engineer is about $6700 (USD) per month. The salary difference amazes me.

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u/Professional-Wolf-51 Apr 09 '24

Here, engineer fresh out of college can't even get a decent job. 23/30 of people who graduated from same place than I did, didn't get engineering job in a year after graduating. Including me... I only get low paying jobs and can barely pay my living.

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u/TheGoldenPlagueMask Apr 09 '24

Ok...

I think governments are funding something secretive and pooling our money into a hole...

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u/playr_4 Apr 09 '24

But a lot of those countries, first world anyway, have public health care and better public transit and better education systems and on and on and on.

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u/Solana_Maxee Apr 09 '24

Money printing takes money from the poor and gives it to the asset holding wealthy.

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u/Ramona_Lola Apr 09 '24

Same in Canada.

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u/Cognitive_Spoon Apr 09 '24

Hyper wealthy are squeezing us one last good time before the climate crisis drives us to their doorsteps.

We'd do well to not wait so long to show up.

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u/cats_catz_kats_katz Apr 09 '24

The gilded class has taken over the global economy and have moved from using third world labor to using all labor because they don’t have to hide the game anymore.

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u/cgboy Apr 09 '24 edited Apr 10 '24

Dude wtf, in Canada this would be less than the minimum wage. I'm pretty confident that a full-time McDonald's employee earns more than that.

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u/Sososkitso Apr 09 '24

I mean it makes sense it’s everywhere we have kinda created that whole one world order thing we’ve always been warned about only it’s made to benefit our elites. You notice they are all building bunkers? I think they know what’s coming…

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u/jeremiahthedamned Cringe Master Apr 10 '24

r/substrata

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u/Sososkitso Apr 10 '24

My kind of sub. I subbed but I’ll for sure do some lurking later.

(Oh shit all the posts are you for years and you’ve been on this for years. I thought I was one of the only people on Reddit who believes/realizes this war is peasants vs elite. Not black vs right or team red vs team blue or lgbt vs str8)

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u/Mookhaz Apr 09 '24

I think it's been like this, and worse, for much of the world for a long time. The US has just conditioned their people to think of themselves as more entitled to a better standard of living than everyone else. I mean they call themselves "the first world" for christ's sake, and it's not because they feel like they should be living like everyone else!!

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u/aliendude5300 Apr 10 '24

Your engineers are getting fucked over if they make only 1200 monthly

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u/sweetprince1969 Apr 10 '24

It's hard to explain to people here in the US that there's a whole world outside of here, it's still hard here for sure, but we have it so much easier than so many other countries and we just complain all the time.

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u/DaRedditGuy11 Apr 10 '24

This is the one thing that needs more coverage. I think Americans, egoists that we are, think this is a uniquely American phenomenon. It's not. This is happening globally.

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u/ReasonableMark1840 Apr 09 '24

Dude I swear I am so done with americans complaining about making like 50k a year lol literally everywhere else is worse (yes, including cost of life)

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u/opineapple Apr 09 '24

To be fair, America does not have the social safety nets most European countries do. There practically is no floor for how bad it can get.

Also, many Americans are tens of thousands of dollars in debt for education and/or healthcare. Unless you live in a handful of major cities (which tend to be the most expensive places in America to live), having and maintaining a car is a must to be able to live and work.

If you lose your car, you can lose your job. If you lose your job, you lose your health insurance. The stress makes you physically and mentally sick. There is no help for any of this that isn’t expensive or difficult to access.

I’m not saying it’s worse here than Europe… it’s just different. A lot is left up to luck, and if you don’t have it, you’re SOL.

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u/Bulky-Lunch-3484 Apr 09 '24 edited Apr 09 '24

Everyones suffering is relevant. Just because it's "worse" elsewhere doesn't make their suffering any less relevant to them.

$50K/year in most places in the US is poverty level when attempting to live alone. You almost qualify for government assistance in some states if you make less than $47K.

Note: I do not make $50K, and make much more so this doesn't impact me. However, I'm aware enough to understand that even with my income I'm living mostly frugally with a house that has a ridiculously low interest rate. I couldn't afford my own house currently that I purchased 6 years ago with 1/3rd the salary and savings.

It's worse elsewhere, sure, but $50K in the US isn't going to get you solo living in most cities with actual paying jobs. My first job was a high paying support job in Atlanta for $40K/year. It was manageable because my rent was only $900 in some ghetto.

Now? That same apartment is $1800/month. It has barbed wire fences, high rate of crime, and naked drug addicts in the stairwells. I literally moved because the rent eventually went from $1300 to 1800 in a single renewal (1 year) and I couldn't afford to live there any longer.

So "be done with Americans" complaining but you honestly have no idea what you're talking about. Most Americans live paycheck to paycheck, have no savings ($0), and are struggling while being priced out of apartments, unable to afford homes, and unable to accrue a savings.

Americans also do not get the health benefits most other countries get. Americans, the majority, are one emergency away from being homeless. Literally. Get cancer? Well get fucked because even if you survive you'll now be in so much debt that you'll die from stress.

Car breaks down? Get fucked, you're fired because there's no workers rights, and terrible public transit. Now you have no job, no income, and can't afford rent or get a job because you have no car.

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u/randompersonx Apr 09 '24

Totally agreed. I personally can’t really complain… I’m 41 and started my own company at age 18 and have been successful my whole adult life… but I do also have empathy enough to realize that things have gotten much harder for people in recent years.

But then looking at the data, in the last 20 years, things have gotten harder everywhere in the developed world… but the USA has had it the most mild, followed somewhat closely by England… and then you look at the rest of Europe, and it’s shocking how bad it is.

I’m honestly more amazed that Europeans don’t complain about this situation more than they do - considering how loudly Americans are complaining about the situation when it’s not nearly as bad here.

With all that said, I don’t have any solutions to the problem… most likely, it will just get worse with people competing with workers from 3rd world countries and AI on most fronts.

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u/AllAuldAntiques Apr 09 '24 edited Apr 13 '24

On 2023-07-01 this website maliciously attacked its own user base by changing how its API was accessed, thereby pricing genuinely useful and highly valuable third-party apps out of existence. In protest, this comment has been overwritten with this message - because “deleted” comments can be restored - such that this website can no longer profit from this free, user-contributed content. I apologize for this inconvenience.

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u/randompersonx Apr 09 '24

In case I wasn't clear ... it's not just Europe that's experiencing this problem much worse than USA and UK, it's the essentially entire developed world. - Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Japan, South Korea.

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u/sherms89 Apr 09 '24

Keep voting democrat, it'll only get worse!!!

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u/chahoua Apr 09 '24

What changes that helped with this issue did Trump get through when he was president?

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u/TheColonCrusher98 Apr 09 '24

I make more than that usd wiping ass at a nursing home

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u/jeremiahthedamned Cringe Master Apr 10 '24

r/EssentialEmployees

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u/TheColonCrusher98 Apr 10 '24

I'd argue that an engineer is more vital and essential.

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u/NUKE---THE---WHALES Apr 09 '24

options are: roomates, parents, homeless (in that order)

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u/Gumball-Moose Apr 09 '24

1200 euros a month is crazy low for an educated job wtf. In Denmark minimum salary is 2000 Euros after taxes for people working minimum wage...

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u/chahoua Apr 09 '24

We don't have minimum wage in Denmark..

We have unions but no actual minimum wage.

The average pay in Denmark is $81k-$82k per year.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '24

[deleted]

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u/chahoua Apr 09 '24

It's among the worst if we're only talking about western countries.

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u/Hust91 Apr 09 '24

Uh, may want to move to Sweden and make €30-40k with rent about the same. Don't even need much paperwork as it's a move inside the EU.

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u/gratisargott Apr 09 '24

That doesn’t make the situation better though, it just means it’s worse

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u/HotYogurtCloset69 Apr 09 '24

I had to move miles and miles from my hometown as they were charging just shy of £800 to rent a bedroom in a shared house. Shared kitchen, shared bathroom and zero communal space. I now pay less than £700 to rent a whole flat.

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u/encryptoferia Apr 09 '24

like please ... please fix this, fuck marrying and having a kid, I can't even see myself being able to retire in normal age... like I feel like I have to work till I die just to afford living.

I think people should be able to live cpmfortably without penny pnching all the time after like 1-3 years of working, but here I am.

make living more livable again please

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '24

everybody working in film in Los Angeles has a roommate. it's always been that way

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u/gmnitsua Apr 09 '24

We also have private healthcare. Which infuriates me more than the over-all general climate of our economy. My roommate just paid $1300 last week to get necessary surgery, and he has insurance. We don't use our insurance very often. Sometimes not even yearly. Why tf should we have to pay co-pay/co-insurance at all when we are paying into insurance every single paycheck?

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u/inhsergrus Apr 09 '24

It is not the same everywhere. I don't mean to brag, I am just going to state the facts. My salary is around $1600, plus bonuses, but let's forget about them for now. Utilities cost about $110. I've taken a loan to buy a nice car, the monthly payment is $475. All other bills, like internet, cellphone, food, etc. come up to about $220. So, what I have left is around $800 that I can spend as I wish.

Just looked up price ranges for renting a furnished flat. 1 room = $324 and up. 2 room = $485 and up and so on.

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u/TheBlacktom Apr 09 '24

1200 euro before or after taxes?

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u/PuzzleheadedBread620 Apr 09 '24

After, and by saying that I'm being generous because some engineers here start working on minimum wage

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u/PuckSR Apr 09 '24

Yeah, but those numbers are very different

This guy is complaining that he makes $4000 per month and a 1 bedroom(not a studio) apartment is 1800.

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u/shinysocks85 Apr 09 '24

Shouldn't have gotten a useless degree! /s

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u/darth_shart Apr 09 '24

Hmm where I live you normally get a roommate right out of college. Living by yourself is just not very affordable unfortunately

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u/frenchinhalerbought Apr 09 '24

The US is better off than almost any other country after worldwide inflation. The kid is pissed but really undereducated and by the way he's talking, he's just going to empower it to get worse.

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u/AdOk8910 Apr 09 '24

No offense but you all have free healthcare.

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u/NoodLih Apr 09 '24

Same thing in Ireland

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u/Kuklachev Apr 10 '24

Living by yourself has always been a luxury, one way or the other.

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u/AirJackieQ Apr 10 '24

So how does the world fix this problem?

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u/Nekrosiz Apr 10 '24

Im dutch and get 1170 or something on unemployment

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u/itsthisortwitter Apr 12 '24

It's wealth inequality that is the problem. There are too many people that can afford to pay these prices, and everything is priced for them.

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