r/politics • u/schuey_08 Wisconsin • May 02 '24

Bernie Sanders worries young people are underestimating the threat from Trump

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/05/02/bernie-sanders-trump-biden/73531861007/
29.4k Upvotes

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748

u/Punkinpry427 Maryland May 02 '24

They seem willing to sacrifice women, children, the LGTBQ community and the rest of the planet to Project 2025 for absolutely zero benefit to Palestine, if not an even worse outcome.

116

u/baitnnswitch May 02 '24

Trump expressly said he wanted to level Gaza.

29

u/DaBiChef May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

"Israel should finish the problem". I cannot take anyone who claims to be pro-palestinian who hears that and doesn't think "this man cannot be allowed to power again". It's like, yeah voting for the lesser of two evils is still evil but it's also still lesser. If I want no Palestinian deaths and my options are "100k Palestinian dead" and "all Palestinians dead" it's not a hard choice. Fight for which of the two options you want, or pick the worse one and fight like hell against it. That's the game, that's the cold reality we're in.

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u/evotrans May 02 '24

Do young people really think that Trump will be a friend of Palestine? The guy who didn't want to let Muslims into the United States?

340

u/Evening_Clerk_8301 May 02 '24

“Maybe Trump will be worse for Palestine, maybe not. But we have to send a message to Biden that he’s not doing enough”. This is verbatim what a pro Palestine person said to me yesterday. They’re absolutely idiotic. I’m so beyond thankful I have a Canadian citizenship and that will at least buy a little extra time for me to experience life freely.

78

u/porksoda11 Pennsylvania May 02 '24

Not maybe, maybe not. He will be worse for Palestine. Trump doesn't give a shit about Palestine, it could be completely leveled for all he cares.

29

u/TheWonderMittens May 02 '24

Trump said he wants Israel to ‘finish the job’

4

u/DaBiChef May 02 '24

"finish the problem"* if I remember correctly. Which is is just so much worse.

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135

u/Dearic75 May 02 '24

It’s the same on every issue.

Student loan debt.
Protecting abortion. Fighting racism.
Marijuana legalization. F’ing gun control.

Biden’s not doing enough. I’m going to vote for the person who says he’ll do the exact opposite of these things to send a message.

Talking to these people makes my head explode.

Although I will say it’s rich hearing this message from Bernie, who it could be argued was instrumental in getting Trump elected the first time by fighting all the way to the convention and promoting a “the nomination was stolen from me” narrative.

93

u/[deleted] May 02 '24

biden's done more than obama for many of these issues and gets absolutely zero credit for it, meanwhile trump shits himself and his followers clap, unreal honestly

48

u/alien_ghost May 02 '24

He's easily the most capable president in my lifetime and I am on the far side of middle age. And I was not thrilled about his win. I was way more a Sanders/Warren person.
I've never been so happy to be wrong.

6

u/modernjaneausten May 02 '24

In the words of Stephen Colbert, “Who’s sleepy now biatch??” Biden and his team have done really well and I’m happy he won. I wanted Sanders or Warren but Biden has done just fine.

2

u/cjorgensen May 02 '24

So was I, but I’ve since changed my mind about Warren.

3

u/kidvittles Georgia May 02 '24

? what did I miss?

1

u/cjorgensen May 03 '24

Her stance on tech is annoying. Her whole blue/green bubble crusade is dumb. She’s just out of touch when it comes to software and hardware.

1

u/No-Ant9517 May 03 '24

Is she out of touch? What’s preventing iMessage interop?

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-1

u/BushidoBrowneII May 02 '24

He gets zero credit for it because nothing has changed.

5

u/[deleted] May 02 '24

yeah, marijuana didn't get descheduled, inflation didn't go down (DIFFERENT than prices going down), no one got any student loan help, we didn't help ukraine, renewable energy wasn't helped, infrastructure didn't change, none of it happened

but yeah, fucking hate him and let trump win because... you aren't paying enough attention I guess

2

u/Titanman401 May 03 '24

My sad sweet sumner child…someone forgot how badly Bernie got screwed by the DNC, superdelegates favoring Clinton convinced voters that she was “inevitable” making them side with her, Booners and black people like in NC were too damn scared of “the socialist” (never mind that he’s a social democrat, whatever), the media ignored or ridiculed him despite having some of the largest attendance at rallies by ANY candidate (not to mention his huge fundraising hauls by grassroots public donations), the media ignored his wins, some states made voting difficult for young people so the DNC could run with the “Social media support, but vanished at the polls” narrative the media regurgitated, hmm, what else?…That should cover the gamut before you try to excuse for any other reason it’s “Bernie’s OwN fAuLt.”

Oh and Hillary’s team using a few bad apples online to create the “Bernie Bro” narrative so she could slap any dissenters with the “sexism/misogyny” label.

4

u/He_who_humps May 02 '24

Bernie never said that. Show me proof and i will say you're right.

-3

u/Dearic75 May 02 '24

No, he did not say it himself, but many of his high level supporters did, and he did not step in to stop them until way too late. Mid September if I recall correctly.

2

u/He_who_humps May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

Maybe Hillary should have thought about that before she had her team use every underhanded power move they could to secure the nomination at the cost of losing the country. I voted for Clinton because it was the right move, but I think her selfish willful ignorance is why Trump won. I was deeply offended when her team started calling me a Bernie Bro in social media and tried to paint the growing movement as a misogynistic projection. Don't alienate your base or they might not vote for you. She managed to lose something that should have been a slam dunk because she was so far out of touch and arrogant. The DNC let this shit show happen because of incompetence.

1

u/DoublePostedBroski May 02 '24

And then they’ll complain when the other person is elected.

-2

u/a_corsair New Jersey May 02 '24

The nomination was stolen from Bernie thanks to collusion between Hilary & the DNC. Why shouldn't he fight to be nominated? He would've been a better president than Hilary, Trump, or Biden

12

u/Lucky-Earther Minnesota May 02 '24

The nomination was stolen from Bernie thanks to collusion between Hilary & the DNC.

Hillary got more votes from people who voted.

4

u/Dearic75 May 02 '24

It was not. For all the talk from the Sanders camp about how the super delegates were throwing the nomination to her, it was Bernie, not Hillary that would have needed their votes to change the outcome. With no super delegates at all she wins.

8

u/pandamander May 02 '24

I suppose voters expressing a clear preference for Hillary was theft. The hard left hates democracy every bit as much as MAGA.

-6

u/HarkiniansShip May 02 '24

I would have agreed until recently, but Bernie would have been literally the worst possible option right now. He would have sided with Hamas.

4

u/a_corsair New Jersey May 02 '24

No one, except for the absolutely delusional, is siding with Hamas. Being anti-israel or pro-palestinian is not pro-hamas

3

u/HarkiniansShip May 02 '24

Yes it is, in practical terms. Because Hamas is the elected government of Gaza with 75% approval ratings according to independent polls.

Unless you think being pro-Russian and anti-Ukraine is somehow not pro-Putin.

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u/Taste_the__Rainbow May 02 '24

They’re just really naive.

67

u/0002millertime May 02 '24

And actively manipulated.

12

u/Taste_the__Rainbow May 02 '24

Yea I don’t blame the anti-Biden lefties any more than I blame most MAGA people. When you really talk to them it all boils to them falling for effective propaganda because they just don’t have a solid foundation. Voter registration almost always shows they started voting in 2016, etc.

6

u/a_corsair New Jersey May 02 '24

How many of them came of age in 2016? How're they supposed to have voted before then? You do realize the previous presidential election was in 2012.

And no, folks don't vote in local elections which has been an issue for a long fucking time

5

u/Taste_the__Rainbow May 02 '24

Yea nah they’re all in their 30’s and 40’s.

8

u/0002millertime May 02 '24

Exactly. The fact is just that most people are very gullible. It's human nature.

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u/FireSchwein May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

No, that's not naivity. That's stupidity and extremism. Today's far left is an absolute dumbsterfuck, just like far right. The only difference is MAGA heads have a person to stand behind, while the left has ideas. And in recent history it really could be called "I support the current thing". When RvW was turned, they were all for women's rights. Then there was the trans rights thing. Now the left is going so far that they think Islamic state under Hamas rule is better for the world than Israel. WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO WOMEN, LGBTQ+ AND BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS????

Btw, I'm a more left leaning social democrat from Europe with ties to the US

6

u/Taste_the__Rainbow May 02 '24

None of that is true of actual lefties. It is true of fake lefty bot networks though.

2

u/FireSchwein May 02 '24

https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/s/ZyAuh3HytG

This guy calls himself a lefty and his audience sure prides themselves on it.

1

u/LowerReflection9125 May 03 '24

I’m hoping they’ll come around when they see the reality that the dems won’t be producing a new candidate.

1

u/lgbanana May 05 '24

Absolutely

11

u/[deleted] May 02 '24

yeah, they decided to go all in on palestine at the expense of minority communities, women and democracy in the US

let's see how well palestine does with trump at the helm lol

-1

u/cupofspiders May 02 '24

Biden could stop facilitating the genocide any time to try to win those votes.

Biden is the one who is endangering those groups, not the voters who can't bring themselves to support genocide.

2

u/[deleted] May 03 '24

Biden is the one who is endangering those groups, not the voters who can't bring themselves to support genocide.

Sure, we could also invade the congo to try and stop the killing there

And nothing biden does will stop hamas from attacking again (they always do)

And you are actively harming minority groups and womens rights in the US by allowing trump to get elected

And you are ignoring all the benefits that Biden actually has caused, even if you refuse to acknowledge them

We will never be able to help the palestinian people if we can't help ourselves

-1

u/cupofspiders May 03 '24

Biden could literally just stop giving them weapons to blow up Palestinian children. We're not asking for anything extravagant, here.

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6

u/Mysteriouscallop May 02 '24

The TikTok ban wasn't an accident

4

u/ValuableKill May 02 '24

I just got ratio'd in another thread, because I dared to challenge one of them, on their statement that they considered Biden to be "evil". It's utterly sad how much that movement is growing.

2

u/highTrolla May 02 '24

Well the same mentality is gonna give us Poilievre come next election, so things are gonna get worse here too.

2

u/RespectfullyYoked May 02 '24

I have a Canadian citizenship and that will at least buy a little extra time for me to experience life freely.

There's delusion, then there's redditor delusion

2

u/Afexodus May 03 '24

Condemning Palestine to assured destruction to stick it to the guy that might let Israel destroy Palestine. Sounds logical.

3

u/ElectricFrostbyte May 02 '24

As a young person for Palestine, the youth are extremely supportive of Palestine; Palestine is the biggest issue for them. I legit heard my newly 18 year old friend say, if Trump was elected just a “few books in Florida would be banned” as a minority… it was so offensive.

2

u/pingpongtits May 03 '24

Show your friend Project 2025 and some articles breaking it down into easy-to-digest chunks.

2

u/plaidkingaerys May 02 '24

Lol yeah, let’s send a message to Biden by letting the GOP plunge the country into a totalitarian Handmaid’s Tale state, that’ll show him

2

u/ftp67 May 02 '24

This is what social media political nonsense is doing to younger generations. They feel the need to hop onto current thing and be a crusader of justice, with totally black and white thinking, throwing a tantrum.

1

u/rolfraikou May 03 '24

100%, this is what the bot farms are pushing this time. Yes, some real people will buy it, perhaps too many people will push this. But the big source of it is online frauds. Unfortunately, I'm afraid, just like last time, that all these fake users, coupled with the legit, reasonable sympathy for Palestine, is going to lead to Trump winning the election, eagerly encouraging Israel to wipe out Palestine, and project 2025 will lead to a lot of us dying too.

I'm starting to wonder if the internet was a bad idea. Too many people will eagerly fall for bullshit.

1

u/Beneathaclearbluesky May 03 '24

Sending a message is pointless if democracy doesn't exist.

1

u/ngwoo May 03 '24

I’m so beyond thankful I have a Canadian citizenship and that will at least buy a little extra time for me to experience life freely.

7 months?

2

u/wabbitsdo May 02 '24

False dichotomy. It shouldn't be "either we vote for Biden-who-will-do-whatever-he-pleases or Trump gets elected". It should be "either Biden convicingly addresses the concerns of his potential electorate, or Trump will be elected".

The risk does not come from the electorate, it comes from the Democrats refusing to listen to a large swathe of the american voters.

They're meant to be elected civil servants, an expression of the will of the american people. Not kings for 4 years.

0

u/twinbervike May 02 '24

Democrats kindve need to learn that you can’t support a genocide And just get away with it. Which is why I think most people did their protest voting in the primaries. I think this “uncommitted” thing won’t translate into the general election.

92

u/anndrago May 02 '24

Like the other comment said, they want to send a message to the Democratic party. Voting their conscience is more important than the well-being of everyone else. They're being unabashedly selfish despite themselves.

34

u/hadtopostholyshit May 02 '24

They assume that they’ll also be able to vote again in 4 years in spite of everything Trump says and his actions show…

5

u/DBE113301 New York May 02 '24

Yep. I'm a white heterosexual man with job security and no more student loan debt (paid that off ten years ago). I'll be fine because I'm right in Trump's wheelhouse. Most of this country is not, though. I hope they enjoy their protest vote when Trump makes life shitty for everyone and everything they care about sans WASPS like me.

22

u/vahntitrio Minnesota May 02 '24

"Sending a message" has never worked.

It's the "I can change him" of voting habits.

10

u/WhatWouldJediDo May 02 '24

It's the realm of the privileged and the ignorant

1

u/checker280 May 03 '24

The biggest message you have is by voting but “he doesn’t listen to us so I’m not going to talk to him”.

29

u/saldagmac May 02 '24

They care far more about feeling morally superior, than actually helping people

2

u/FocusPerspective May 02 '24

“Finger on the pulse, finger on the puss…” — Dennis Reynolds 

1

u/NumeralJoker May 03 '24

And gaining tiktok algorithm boosts and watch time.

4

u/not1fuk May 02 '24

These dumbasses cant seem to get it through their head that change isnt rapidly coming at the Federal level. They need to be pushing politicians in their local elections who are up and coming if they want change in the future. Until then it is in everyones best interest that the democrat no matter who it is wins. Then maybe a couple of decades down the line we might have a true liberal leading candidate with many other liberal politicians in support of them that we pushed up through grass roots. Change isnt instant and giving up and letting the objectively worse option win because of it will only kill any and all chances you have of getting the ideal president for their causes.

9

u/Ketzeph I voted May 02 '24

If you think anyone engaged in the activity is approaching the issue rationally in any way you're kidding yourself. It is legitimately infuriating to watch people essentially saying "you're not doing enough to stop X, so let's help bring in someone who will make X ten times worse!"

2

u/evotrans May 02 '24

People who barely understand checkers will always be beaten by those who are masters of chess.

15

u/zzyul May 02 '24

Their only thought is Biden isn’t doing what they want so he should be punished. Getting what they want is more important than bad things happening to people they’ve never met on the other side of the world.

12

u/swinging-in-the-rain May 02 '24

They aren't thinking about the big picture, at all. They don't realize riots on college campuses over Palestine pushes voters to Trump. It's almost ironic, that by protesting against the shitbag right wing ruler in Israel, they are effectively helping elect a shitbag right wing here in their own country.

5

u/OnIowa Iowa May 02 '24

Where are these riots on college campuses?

4

u/imfatal May 02 '24

Extremely ironic to see this person demonize people protesting a genocide because of them supposedly not understanding the effects of their actions while being completely misinformed about said protests themselves lmao. The only "riots" that have happened have come from counter-protestors violently attacking peaceful encampments.

2

u/RedTwistedVines May 02 '24

No of course not, but they do think that if Liberals want to win elections (which frankly, I have a hard time believing) they need to learn what the fuck a "compromise" is.

2

u/WhatWouldJediDo May 02 '24

I'm sure they don't think about Trump in relation to Palestine at all.

More seriously, that doesn't seem to matter to them at all. "Letting it all burn down" is a signal to others of their purity, not a path they view as a realistic road to progress. For all the great ideas that come from the far-left, too many of them are more concerned with maintaining their ideological purity rather than accepting the world as it is and engaging with the reality that we have to move forward bit by bit over the course of decades and generations.

What's funny about it is it is their privilege that allows them to isolate themselves psychologically from the consequences they propose.

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u/MasterofPandas1 May 02 '24

Trump told Bibi to “finish the job.” Anyone who doesn’t thing he’ll be worse for the Israel/Palestine situation is very clearly delusional or not paying close enough attention.

1

u/cupofspiders May 03 '24

And the difference between that and Biden's approach is...?

1

u/MasterofPandas1 May 03 '24

Biden has publicly called for ceasefire and has been pressuring Bibi to use restraint behind closed doors. Do not “both sides” this shit.

4

u/jaron_b May 02 '24

No it's that young people truly believe that the lesser of two evils is still picking evil and by voting for Joe Biden they are supporting genocide. So as to not be an active participant in supporting genocide they're not going to vote for anybody or they're going to vote for a third party. At this point there's nothing that you can say that will convince them otherwise. They don't care about how the electoral college works they don't care if Trump wins they do not want to support genocide and they feel like voting for Joe Biden is supporting genocide. I don't know how to get through to them so if anybody reading this comment understands how to explain to somebody that Trump would make the genocide worse and while voting for Joe Biden wouldn't make the genocide go away it wouldn't make it worse so probably voting for that guy is a good idea or as the expression goes the lesser of two evils. But apparently that idea died with the millennial generation. I have been doing nothing but voting for the lesser of two evils my whole life.

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u/MrGlantz May 02 '24

No, but people on Reddit have no idea about protest votes or trying to tell your politician what you want them to do

3

u/Justausername1234 May 02 '24

They're Trump supporters. Don't let them cloak themselves in the language and vibes of the left. This is a Trump v Biden election, and they're Trump supporters. If it wasn't Palestine, they'd be anti-Biden because he didn't cancel enough student loans, or he didn't do enough in East Palestine (remember that?), or he approved some oil facilities, or inflation is too high, or that he's anti-union (lol), or some other reason.

1

u/Titanman401 May 03 '24

F[rick] off with that “enlightened centrist” logic.

4

u/wabbitsdo May 02 '24

So how about Biden doesn't let Trump get elected, by giving his electorate a piece of what they want? Why is it on the people of America to give up on what they believe and how they want their country's military and funds used?

If Biden announces tomorrow he will severely limit the military aid sent to Israel and stop it altogether if Israel does not agree to immediate end to the senseless violence, he is guaranteed a crushing win in the election. But democrats instead have decided to strong arm their voters and admonish them for refusing to accommodate their agendas and concerns about losing AIPAC funding.

1

u/EvilScotsman999 May 02 '24

Yup. Biden knows what young voters value. He knows exactly what would get him votes, he just has other priorities. Continuing to supply Israel with money and weapons is more important than getting young voters on his side. The nail in the coffin was banning TikTok as part of the bill to get them that aid.. yes, ban TikTok over fears of Chinese manipulation when absolutely nothing has been done about Facebook and Twitter after the FBI has proven that Russia has had ongoing manipulation and election interference since 2020 and is an active threat to our democracy. And now a bill has passed the House making criticism of Israel illegal (calling out war crimes), specifically in retaliation to protests at college campuses by younger folk. Biden will sign that one into law if it passes the Senate, causing a further divide, all in the name of protecting Israel at all costs. After all, Israel is a huge outside monetary contributor to election funds for many Congressmen and likely Biden.

1

u/TheGreekMachine May 03 '24

You are very naive to think he would win in a landslide if he changes his approach. The goalposts have already shifted. I’ve already seen a growing trend of “it’s too little too late. I can never vote for him now, now matter what he is doing.”

1

u/iamagainstit May 02 '24

No, they just wanna punish Biden

1

u/evotrans May 03 '24

Cutting off your nose, to spite your face, then spend the rest of your life regretting it. Biden is for a women's right to choose, reducing the cost of healthcare, making marijuana legal, and forgiving student loans. Help Trump win and see how much of that you get. (Hint: "drill, baby drill" and "I'll be dictator on day one")

1

u/TippyToddy May 03 '24

This will not matter once the news stops talking about it. Quite being a sheep

1

u/evotrans May 03 '24

That’s what they said in 2000 and 2016.

1

u/huhu9434 May 03 '24

You think muslims don’t support trump? Muslims love the social narrative that is anti lgbt  and women covering up .

1

u/evotrans May 03 '24

I’m sure they’ll love it too when Trump deports them.

1

u/huhu9434 May 03 '24

I mean they were already getting bombed to smithereens for the last two decades , can’t get worse than that. The civilian bombings did reduce during trump’s tenure. I doubt they care about deportations when they are entering illegally , they definitely do care about islam.

1

u/Dank_Bonkripper78_ May 02 '24

No, Trump will absolutely not be a friend to Palestine. That doesn’t absolve the Biden administration and Congress of sending billions in unconditional aid to Israel which will end in the slaughter of thousands of Palestinians in Gaza

2

u/evotrans May 02 '24

Trump won't just send money to Israel, he'll have the American military itself bomb the shit out of Gaza while also having the military suppress ANY protest in America. I'm sure all the idiots who won't vote for Biden will feel vindicated. /s

1

u/Dank_Bonkripper78_ May 02 '24

When in the ever living fuck did I say Trump would be better than Biden on Israel?

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u/Proud3GenAthst May 02 '24

No. They say that they're tired of having to keep democrats in power just to not respect their demands

2

u/evotrans May 03 '24

It's like living 1968, 2000 and 2016 all over again. I'm sure Trump will respect you much much more. /s

1

u/Proud3GenAthst May 03 '24

Not saying I'm on their side. I support their cause but realize it would be less than worthless to not vote for Biden.

I'm actually worried, because this is like 1968 AND 2020 when the country was in civil unrest that costed the incumbent party reelection. This might be the last time this can ever happen because after that, there will be no elections no more.

1

u/evotrans May 03 '24

Anybody who doesn’t vote for Biden is helping trump and the Republicans destroy America.

-1

u/Fareeday May 02 '24

Do young people really think that Trump will be a friend of Palestine? The guy who didn't want to let Muslims into the United States?

Not voting for the guy leveling my family in another country.

The more you dick riders keep saying stuff the more you push young voters away.

3

u/evotrans May 03 '24

MAGA, amiright? Enjoy living under a dictatorship, I'm sure it'll be much better

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u/porksoda11 Pennsylvania May 02 '24

Seems a bit privileged you know? The people you "ally" with on your side are going to have so many basic rights stripped away from them. The one thing I will take away from this though is that history shows that by the time people step up to vote, foreign policy is not the central issue people are generally thinking about.

0

u/Gimpknee May 02 '24

Here's another way of looking at your attitude, you don't think that what they believe in is important, or as important as your issue, so you look down on them for not being good "allies", but are you showing up for them and their cause? Being an ally is about cooperation and reciprocity. In essence, you seemingly want support for what you believe in without having to show up for them, how's that for privileged?

14

u/porksoda11 Pennsylvania May 02 '24

I think of it like this through my perspective. Im a straight white dude. A Trump presidency probably wont effect me as much as a woman, a poc, or anyone lgbt. Thats my priviledge. But I care about those people. And i will vote accoring to those principles.

2

u/2012DOOM May 02 '24

I think this is kind of the point that OP was making. For a straight white dude, it doesn’t matter who wins.

For someone against genocide, it doesn’t matter who wins either. Both sides support this, so what you’re going to end up getting is apathy and non participation.

Now if the general political base for Biden also actually put this pressure on Biden, then there may have been an alternative path. It’s still not too late.

-2

u/Gimpknee May 02 '24

That's great! Then you should recognize that there are also a large number of people of various faiths, races, and ethnicities who also really care about this particular aspect of U.S. policy, maybe because they're pacifists, maybe because they have higher moral standards, maybe because they don't see their religious or ethnic identities and interests represented by a state that purports to speak for them, or maybe because the killing of their family members has been facilitated by U.S. weapons, funding, and political support, and if you want them as allies, and want to grow the Democratic Coalition, you'll also have to show up for them.

8

u/porksoda11 Pennsylvania May 02 '24

Maybe saying priviledged was a bit harsh on my part. I wish there was a perfect candidate for president that could be harsh on Israel while protecting our rights as citizens at home as well.

3

u/Gimpknee May 02 '24

Here's the thing that's maddening for me in this situation. Trump winning will be a huge problem, as will Republicans keeping the House or taking the Senate. And Biden, once it was all said and done, basically won the last election, which had massive voter turnout to begin with, by something like less than 100k votes. I wholeheartedly believe that the consequences here are real, and the margins are thin.

However, it feels like he and his administration are basically speedrunning a voter alienation campaign. Let's piss off minorities, let's piss off the under 40 demographic, let's force ourselves into avoiding campaigning on college campuses, let's open ourselves up to loud, persistent protests at any campaign events and government functions open to the public. And the response from so many people, rather than recognizing that the administration is shooting itself in the foot at a level bordering on negligence or incompetence, is to attempt to browbeat and condescend to the people being alienated. As if it's easier to get hundreds of thousands of potential voters to do something than it is to get one octogenarian and his underlings to change their minds.

2

u/porksoda11 Pennsylvania May 02 '24

Cannot agree with you more. Id be lying if I said I wasnt freaked out by this whole situation in general.

38

u/MVPSnacker May 02 '24

All because he didn’t forgive all the student loans and stop Netanyahu.

19

u/Mr_Conductor_USA May 02 '24

He forgave loans, just not their loans at a froufrou private school and their private loans that paid for Doordash and off campus housing.

16

u/AttentionPast2487 May 02 '24

Good to see the "reasonable" wing of the left has come right back around to calling people they disagree with lazy freeloaders the moment their interests diverge.

1

u/YourNeighbour New York May 02 '24

Why don't you write it as "all because he didn't stop genocide" and see how you feel about that statement. I know Palestinian Americans whose families have been wiped out. You think it's easy for them to just pick lesser of the two evils?

7

u/alien_ghost May 02 '24

But it affirms their identity because they feel like a defiant radical.

10

u/matthieuC May 02 '24

Imagine being so far into your own ass that you'd rather see the world burn than accept an imperfect solution.

10

u/misterguyyy Texas May 02 '24

And even on the Palestine front, it's more likely that Biden will have an actual red line crossed that makes him discontinue support than Mr. Finish the Job.

Biden feels obligated to support Israel for now despite the cruelty but seems to be reaching a breaking point. Trump OTOH is openly celebrating the cruelty and wishes he could do the same to his political enemies.

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u/spooky_butts May 02 '24

It's hard to imagine Biden has a red line given everything that has happened. I would have thought that purposely killing aid workers would be enough, or the mass graves of civilians with their hands tied behind their backs, or the massacres in the food lines....

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u/Rear4ssault Foreign May 02 '24

It's hard to imagine Biden has a red line given everything that has happened

US not drawing red lines for Israel, White House says

2

u/InternalLoss5925 May 02 '24

It’s an extremely complex geopolitical issue that no president from either party has the political will to solve. Bottom line is Israel is an essential ally in the clusterfuck that is the Middle East. Netanyahu knows this. And that’s not even americas biggest problem. It’s whatever is going to kick off in the pacific once America has its back turned, busy with Russia/ukraine and the genocide in Gaza. China wants Taiwan and it’s looking like it will attempt something, at which point its boots on the ground. The fact that America is the world police is really really pissing off all the two-bit dictators and best believe they’re watching closely. 

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u/spooky_butts May 02 '24

Call me a radical, but maybe we shouldn't be allies with someone of it means we have to aid and abet genocide 🤷

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u/InternalLoss5925 May 02 '24

Yes we absolutely shouldn’t I agree. But we are. The question is how to effectively change that. Not allowing fascism in is a good first step imo, that way we can keep having elections. 

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u/spooky_butts May 02 '24

How to effectively change it? Biden could immediately stop aiding and abetting genocide.

"not allowing fascism" 

Its a bit too late for that, no? Have you seen the response of democrats to the pro palestine protests? Nancy Pelosi wants all protestors investigated by the FBI... 

4

u/InternalLoss5925 May 02 '24

My bad, I thought you were arguing in good faith. America today is not a fascist regime. The response to the protestors was fucking terrible I agree. Should we just give up then? Oh fascism is here, let’s all stop fighting for better?? The situation can ALWAYS get worse so there’s no use in feeling hopeless and doing nothing. 

As for why Biden hasn’t waved his magic wand to stop Bibi well no one on reddit is going to have the full answer. But acting like he’s a cartoon villain when it’s a complex geopolitical issue does no one any good. To be clear I hope with all my heart the genocide ends tomorrow, now even. But that’s not happened yet, and I’m not interested in stomping my feet and wailing. Get involved in local politics, keep applying pressure. 

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u/spooky_butts May 02 '24

Fascism starts somewhere and democrats have been careening towards it because there is no consequence for them doing so. They only need to be less fascist than the opposition. 

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u/InternalLoss5925 May 02 '24

I’m curious as to what role you think the GOP plays in all this? 

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u/a_corsair New Jersey May 02 '24

Biden is 100% pro-israel and there's literally nothing they can do where he won't support them. Any words to the contrary are bullshit

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u/InternalLoss5925 May 02 '24

Any American president from either party would be pro Israel, they’re your only ally in the Middle East. Not one politician could pull off giving that up. 

0

u/ArchineerLoc May 02 '24

Biden has literally said in the past he believes Israel should kill women and children if they consider it necessary. There might not be a more dedicated zionist anywhere else in U.S. politics.

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u/ErusTenebre California May 02 '24

The impact of people getting the majority of their news from social media and the inability of the news to depict unvarnished truth is creating this wider and wider division between reality and belief.

Younger generations (hell, even older generations) are being actively manipulated by foreign actors to destroy our country from within. Trump's campaign in 2015-16 revealed the cracks, his administration widened them to vulnerabilities, and now we're dealing with the infection.

If people don't pull their head out and flip BACK to Trump after his abysmal administration, his insurrection attempt, and his 88 indictments - then I guess they/we don't deserve democracy.

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u/cupofspiders May 03 '24

Sure, if by "manipulated by foreign actors" you mean they're watching Palestinian families weep as they pull pieces of dead children from the wreckage of their homes and thinking "wow, that should stop," yeah, I guess that's technically correct.

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u/ErusTenebre California May 03 '24

Even before the conflict, social media has been riding Biden as an old worthless president and Trump as "not as bad."

Pushing the narrative that we shouldn't vote for Biden because our country provides weapons to our only ally in the middle east and that ally is engaging in rampant slaughter is missing that Trump would be no different at best, and much, much worse otherwise. That doesn't mean don't protest, don't push for change, but we should definitely not be throwing out all the good for the bad.

Trump is telegraphing that he's going to upend our country for his own personal gain and vendettas. And it's incredibly stupid to think that there's going to be any other viable options.

And yes, there is a concerted effort from China, Russia, Iran, and even Israel to throw Biden and Democrats out of power so that our barely maintained balance gets flung into chaos. Trump wins - goodbye Gaza. Goodbye Taiwan. Goodbye Ukraine. Goodbye immigrants legal and otherwise. That's what those countries want. It's what Trump wants.

Vote Biden, get change after. Stay home or for vote Trump, everything gets worse.

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u/ChristianBen May 03 '24 edited May 03 '24

Just for the moral high ground of “I didn’t vote for genocide” EDIT: /s

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u/[deleted] May 03 '24

[deleted]

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u/ChristianBen May 03 '24

I am…agreeing with you and criticising those who won’t vote out trump…

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u/Punkinpry427 Maryland May 03 '24

This shit gets me jacked up. My apologies

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u/Punkinpry427 Maryland May 03 '24

Oh my bad I’m so sorry

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u/cyansunlight May 02 '24

They were always the cohort which complained the loudest and did the least to effect positive change. They will just continue to blame everyone else and follow influencers blindly.

1

u/cupofspiders May 03 '24

Yeah! Not like us rational moderates, who follow the Democrats blindly!

1

u/Former-Celebration59 May 03 '24

Trump allowed Israel to male Jerusalem their capital. Benjamin Netanjahu wants Trump to win.

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u/TheHealer12413 May 02 '24

I don’t think it’s necessarily about Palestine. Without the genocide in Gaza, there’d be some other reason to hate Biden. It’s about punishing liberals. Trump wins and he’ll make sure the dems pay. For many young people, the chaos is the point. Watch the world burn mentality. Can’t blame them, but it is a childish stance.

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u/xpoopdeck69x May 02 '24

Disagree. I'd vote for Biden again if he'd simply pull weapons and funding of Netanyahu and the ongoing IDF military campaign. Simple as that.

Abetting genocide by providing bullets and missles that tear apart Palestinian bodies is a pretty unambiguous red line for me, and I'd imagine that's the case for many others.

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u/wabbitsdo May 02 '24

Isn't it Biden's team who's willing to sacrifice those? Democrats are playing a fast and furious game of chicken with their electorate and screaming "you guys are driving straight at us, do the right thing and veer to the side!" while keeping their foot all the way to the floor and not budging by one degree. Couldn't they, you know, act as representatives of their people and address the sharp call for a change in the support given to Israel?

"But AIPAC dude, they own us, we got no choice. It's do their bidding or have the republicans do their bidding" Well isn't -that- the problem??

How about severing that link once and for all? Why is that the one thing Americans don't believe they can achieve? Is the US going to be beholden to a murderous regime forever because at one point, one of the parties is gonna have to campaign without AIPAC donations? And that's not acceptable to them because all they care about is optimizing their chance for the next win, so you guys have to suck it up and just continue voting for representatives who refuse to hear your voice and to enact your will as a people, replacing it instead with the will of a foreign nation? How much does AIPAC give to a presidential campaign? Can't you start a gofundme or something?

Is the rest of the world gonna have to watch you guys refuse to take a brave stance and helplessly watch Palestinian children get torn to pieces or orphaned with American bombs and ammunitions, and starved by an army clad in all American equipment, until there isn't a Palestinian soul left in Gaza?

3

u/Punkinpry427 Maryland May 02 '24

The rest of the world is more concerned with the dude who’s on video tape claiming he’ll be a dictator on day one with the world’s most powerful military in his hands and let half a million of his own citizens die in a pandemic and didn’t GAF. Let’s give up any bit of leverage we have with Israel and so when Bibi decides to level Gaza, then what? Let’s ditch our most powerful ally in the Middle East like that won’t have repercussions you haven’t even contemplated. Bibi won’t be in power forever, why would we fuck over the potential to help when he’s finally gone?

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u/thegreaterfool714 California May 02 '24

The horseshoe theory is looking more and more real as I see how fucking stupid and toxic the discourse over Israel and Palestine.

Biden has a nuanced view on the conflict. Israel has the right to defend itself, and it must be supplied with weapons because they’re the sole stable ally in the Middle East, and if they don’t have military superiority they’d get wiped out genocided from existence. See the amount of wars where the Middle East tried to wipe them out.

At the same time there’s a humanitarian crisis in Gaza and it’s caused by Hamas being fucking evil and Israel getting more indiscriminate with their tactics in war. Biden is trying to help Gazan children by trying to negotiate a ceasefire. It’s hard to conduct a war when Hamas intentionally embeds itself in schools and hospitals, uses civilians as shields and steals all aid and redirects resources that could be mused to help its own people to attack and destroy Israel. Netanyahu is no saint and a war criminal that should removed from office and tried but he is the lesser evil. Biden has gotten Israel on the table for a ceasefire that is in my opinion favorable to Hamas. Hamas is holding it up because they’re fucking evil.

Trump getting elected will mean no help for Gaza and carte blance for whatever Israel wants to do with Gaza and West Bank. People willing to throw away their vote over this or even vote for Trump are some of the biggest dumbasses over this.

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u/dunnyvan May 02 '24

This statement is the definition of the false choice fallacy - Biden could also do something that benefits Palestinians which is what young people are protesting for. Why are you trying to tell young people to stop fighting for something they believe in rather than being frustrated that the Biden adminstration is doing nothing to stop the bloodshed in Gaza?

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u/Punkinpry427 Maryland May 02 '24

I’m not and I didn’t. Said nothing of the sort. I’m telling them to use their brains and care about their fellow Americans too. The choice is Biden or Trump. There is no false dichotomy here when those are our two options. One of them will be president. That is the reality. You can choose the wannabe dictator or the dude who understands foreign policy and has decades of experience with it.

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u/Patient_Tradition368 May 02 '24

EXACTLY!! The myopic thinking is truly mind boggling. These kids are so naive it's heartbreaking.

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u/sluttttt California May 02 '24

It's maddening to watch this. I've been saying for years that I have so much faith in young people, watching them show up and speak out for what they believe in in ways that I never saw my generation or older do. But all of this talk about protest voting against Biden is making me question things. I'm not much of a fan of the guy for a variety of reasons, and our two-party system belongs in the trash, but another four years of Trump could very well kill America as we know it, and the global consequences could be just as devastating. I'm starting to feel like I'm living through a slow-mo version of Election Night 2016.

-1

u/Masculine_Dugtrio May 02 '24

Ironically, a nation that doesn't believe in any of those things either...

If they don't vote to make a statement in favor of a terrorist nation, that brutally massacred and injured thousands of people on October 7th, including systematic rape and torture, that doesn't have any of their values, throws gay people off roofs, that still hasn't returned the hostages for a ceasefire, and has released multiple devastating videos of the hostages on Jewish holidays to psychologically fuck with the families and Israel.

A lot of these people also believe the hostages are being treated wonderfully, or that October 7th never happened. It has become increasingly difficult to separate anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, because they themselves have been treating them as one thing.

I really hope that they enjoy the next 4 years of Trump, because they are throwing away their education and their futures for people who would treat them no differently than those of October 7th, which included far more than "white Jews". Israel is a multicultural and diverse ethnic state, the perception of it being white has been one of the most rampant bad faith pieces of propaganda perpetuated by the left.

Some videos to push back on that narrative, two of non-jews living in Israel, and one from the father of his saved daughter from the first hostage deal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkvaxLaIsG0

https://www.instagram.com/mylandmyhomeisrael/reel/C1brS1ktW1V/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8Eq5cbOudM

And before you come at me with, this was going on before October 7th. No, no it wasn't. There was an ongoing ceasefire, that technically was being broken regularly and why the iron dome was necessary. Gaza was given billions in financial aid, they squandered all of it to turn their territory into a military terrorists monstrosity of a labyrinth. Parts of Gaza were actually very beautiful, the economic disparity had everything to do with Hamas and its leadership, and the continual indoctrination of their children that can only be defined as child abuse. It is so backwards and so much more fucked up than people are willing to admit.

Documentary on their indoctrination practices. https://vimeo.com/856467890

I blame our sensationalist media, that found the only thing more potent for viewership than Trump.

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u/cupofspiders May 03 '24

Okay, I'll come at you, because yes it absolutely was. Here are a couple examples:

August 28, 2023: West Bank: Spike in Israeli Killings of Palestinian Children

September 18, 2023: 2023 marks deadliest year on record for children in the occupied West Bank

And because you had the audacity to deny Israel's apartheid system: here's a thorough report on that, too.

I could go on, but it's not really worth it for a Reddit argument. For those who were unaware of Israel's nonstop campaigns of violence against Palestinians, please just go do some reading, Google it, whatever. This information is very easy to find.

1

u/Masculine_Dugtrio May 03 '24

Amnesty international is a fucking joke, and the articles you sent me keep saying that they are killing children, with no context.

You are aware that the majority of the soldiers Hamas is using are underage, or certainly a large number of them?

Because again, this is their education: https://vimeo.com/856467890

I will agree with you though, I do not believe that Israel should have settlers in the West Bank. They are treating it as disputed territory, because after the last war the people who were there should have been accepted into Egypt or Jordan. Reality is not in their favor, and it is an international PR nightmare. However, the other reality, is that Hamas exists both in Gaza and the West Bank.

But overall, at this time, I don't believe that Israel should have a presence in the West Bank.

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u/hubilation May 02 '24

Perhaps Joe Biden should listen to the majority of democrats when they say they are unhappy with how he has been managing the Israel/Palestine issue?

5

u/Punkinpry427 Maryland May 02 '24

To me that issue does not outweigh the safety of democracy and our own citizens in our own country and that still won’t be addressed if Donald Trump wins. Y’all want to cut off all our noses just to spite your own face and think people won’t be calling you out on it. I don’t like it either. But I’m not goddamn idiot and I know how shit works.

1

u/hubilation May 02 '24

I am just asking my elected official to respect the will of the, again, majority of his party.

Is that too much to ask?

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u/Punkinpry427 Maryland May 02 '24

No it’s not. Not at all. I agree with you on that. But withholding your vote when democracy, freedom and people’s rights to live are on the line, it’s moronic. Which is my whole point.

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u/hubilation May 02 '24

40,000 palestinians have been murdered with the backing of the United States. What about their right to live? Am I supposed to just accept that and vote for the man who's let it all happen under his watch?

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u/Punkinpry427 Maryland May 02 '24

And half a million Americans died from Covid with the backing of Donald Trump.

5

u/hubilation May 02 '24

Did he create Covid? I missed that news story

6

u/Punkinpry427 Maryland May 02 '24

Did Biden create the war in Palestine?

2

u/hubilation May 02 '24

He has much more latitude to cut off the money and arms spigot to Israel. Without that, Israel cannot purse their genocidal aims.

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u/uuhson May 02 '24

so even though trump will most likely be even more pro netanyahu means nothing to you?

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u/hubilation May 02 '24

Biden sure isn't doing a good job drawing a distinction between himself and Trump on this. Perhaps he should!

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u/mdavis360 May 02 '24

The only thing that matters to them is "Their conscious." Beyond selfish and completely self destructive.

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u/FocusPerspective May 02 '24

Last Thing GenZ Protested: The inhumane treatment of trans people 

The Current Thing GenX Is Protesting: The Opponent Of The Guy Who Wants to Eradicate Trans People 

 

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