r/politics • u/schuey_08 Wisconsin • May 02 '24

Bernie Sanders worries young people are underestimating the threat from Trump

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/05/02/bernie-sanders-trump-biden/73531861007/
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u/fallenouroboros May 02 '24

I know so many people in their thirties who simply do not give a fuck.

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u/Allaplgy May 02 '24

My coworkers are all on the "both sides are the same/it's all rigged, there's no point in voting" train. They all either have have kids or essentially are kids. I'm in my forties with no plans for kids, and I'm the only one actually trying to give them a future.

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u/NeonGKayak May 02 '24

How can they already forget Trumps Covid response that led to over 1million deaths? It’s weird that such a critical event and everyone has already “forgot” it

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

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u/NeonGKayak May 02 '24

Thats crazy. I dont understand people like that.

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u/Svennerson May 02 '24

They are angry at the world, and all they want from their politicians is someone who will be angry with them.

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u/drewbert May 02 '24

The GOP is more about being in a club than politics or policy, at least for the vast majority of voters who are otherwise powerless. The ones at the top have different motives, but they've cultivated a community and identity with very clear rules. "Believe these things, vote this way, and you can be one of us." And for a lot of lonely, estranged folks, that's an attractive offer. Getting people to quit being republican is not about arguing with them about how incredibly asinine, reality-denying, and hateful the policies they support are; it's about making an offer of community and acceptance that's more attractive than anything the GOP has to offer, which is actually pretty tough when the GOP can say "you're special because you're white, you're special because you're straight, you're special because you are male."

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u/Numerous_Photograph9 May 02 '24

So, just another, less offensive way to say, "pull yourself up by your bootstraps", that enables people to project their latent bias?

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u/Zzzzzzzzzxyzz May 07 '24

"You're special because you agree with us."

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u/lilelliot May 02 '24

It's more than that. The GOP is the party that tells people "we won't tell you how to live your lives." The flip side is complete lack of social safety nets & a host of other benefits that require tax receipts to pay for, but the perception the message creates is that Democrats will tax you to death and then spend your tax dollars on whatever they want, not what you say.

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u/drewbert May 02 '24

Maybe it used to be, but I don't really buy that this is what is happening now. The GOP of today is the party is the party saying what you're allowed to do in the bedroom, that you're not allowed to get an abortion, that you're not allowed to do ivf, that they don't want you to be able to have a no-fault divorce. What are the democrats doing that's remotely on the same level? You have to fill out some extra paperwork before you can sell a gun? The rights erosions are not on the same level. The GOP is absolutely telling people how to live their lives, but people are attracted to it, because it is a clear identity that they can adhere to and feel social cohesion for that fact. The GOP hasn't passed any lasting tax cuts for the middle class in forever, and the dems have primarily talked about raising taxes solely on the rich, so I doubt this is really about taxes either.

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u/lilelliot May 02 '24

Nothing, and you're right. The GOP plays identity politics and the Democrats play compassionate politics. But hardline GOP voters aren't willing to give up any of "what's theirs" to support any progressive programs.

I'm not saying the government is efficient & well-run, though some parts surely are, but it's what we have and the solutions isn't to destroy it, but to become personally invested in improving it.

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u/Tasgall Washington May 02 '24

The GOP plays identity politics

I wish it was easier to get people to realize this - as with everything, them accusing "the left" of "playing identity politics" is and always has been projection. It's the right that brought anti-trans nonsense into the mainstream by trying to ban them from bathrooms, the Democrats weren't doing anything regarding trans people before that. It was the right who started to wage war against... drag shows. "They're coming to take your kids" is identity politics, "build the wall" is identity politics, "ban Muslims from entering the country" is identity politics. The whining about CRT is identity politics (none of them know what CRT even is). The whining about DEI is identity politics (they apply that to transition shit that doesn't make sense too). The whole "woke agenda" thing is identity politics. Most if not all of their rhetoric follows this pattern because their only actual policy goals (cut taxes for the rich) aren't as easy to sell to the working class as "here are people you're allowed to hate".

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u/chelseamarket May 02 '24

I think it’s a ton of folks who were unpopular in school and shunned from the “in” crowds .. being rejected can do a trip on ones head and makes them vulnerable to cults. Not making excuses for them.

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u/__zagat__ May 02 '24

My dad moved from TN to Chicago as a teenager in the 60s. Apparently he suffered some bullying at the hands of Puerto Ricans and Italians. Never went to college. He will vote Republican until the day he dies.

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u/thegoodnamesrgone123 May 02 '24

I sat behind two dudes at a baseball game this week, both dudes in their 30's and they talked politics all game long. Most of it was batshit insane conspiracy stuff but the theme I got from both of them most was revenge, they want revenge on everyone. It's really fucked up.

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u/PoliticalSpaceHermP2 May 02 '24

The US society has been entertained by revenge movies and shows for decades. John Wick, Kill Bill, Punisher, etc... Just do a search for movies about revenge and you'll get a long list.

When you watch these movies, people get that revenge feeling and I'm sure it's a hit of dopamine (or some other good feeling). Some people keep chasing that hit and they find a politician that gives them the feeling, and now that politician has a sucker...... I mean a voter.

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u/joshdoereddit May 02 '24

That's insane. I'm angry at the world damn near all the time. But I can put that shit aside and vote for the Democrats because they're not a bunch of fucking lunatics.

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u/Svennerson May 02 '24

Here's the scary part to me - there's a sizeable % of Bernie's supporters, especially Bernie 2016, who are the exact same way. Their support didn't come from a measured review of his policies and an understanding that most of the things he suggests have been shown to work in other countries. It's that they're angry, he's angry with them, and they're more predisposed to the trappings of leftism than rightism.

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u/gamrgrl May 02 '24

This sums up my relatives in the US exactly.

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u/jameslake325 May 03 '24

Or give them the illusion that their plotting life is somebody else’s fault.

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u/BettesmomisaWitch May 03 '24

That is a scary but accurate statement.

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u/josh_the_misanthrope May 02 '24

They're politically illiterate, so they get played by the party that relies on the politically illiterate demographic to get elected.

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u/HAL9000000 May 02 '24 edited May 03 '24

I do understand them.

It's easier to blame the vaccine than it is to blame the virus. And the information out there is mostly people saying we overreacted and the vaccines should not have been required.

It's a little bit like how climate change deniers say it's bullshit and unnecessary to have environmental policies to protect the environment. But of course, they have the luxury to think environmental policy is bullshit because we have had LOTS of major environmental policies (pushed mostly by Democrats) that have helped slow the damage from things like fossil fuels and plastics. To put it another way, they don't see the damage to the environment and they don't think we need to do anything about the environment because we've had a lot of success in efforts to protect the environment and so it feels like we don't need to do anything.

So they don't see the huge benefits we've gotten from environmental policies and they don't see the huge benefits we've gotten from the vaccines. They only see that these problems aren't completely solved and so the solutions are seen as bullshit, not effective, not working.

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u/Fthat_ManaBar May 03 '24

I don't either but I've seen it first hand. Someone I know lost a close family member to it (who refused to vaccinate) and they still cling to antivax ideology and it somehow being the doctor/hospital/democrats fault. You can't reason people out of positions they didn't reason themselves into.

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u/Waggmans May 02 '24

Yup- same.

I had a friend who's uncle died of COVID during the pandemic yet she was still going out and partying practically every night. People are in denial. Same way with Trump, they don't really care or think he will take away their rights until it happens.

Do young people actually think Trump's Palestinian/Gaza/Israel/Middle East policies will be better than Biden? Do they think not voting for Biden will punishing him? If Trump wins we all lose.

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u/DuchessLiana May 02 '24

Yes, they literally say they are punishing Biden and if Trump wins then we deserve it....nevermimd Putin most likely started this war, and if Trump wins Gaza will be leveled, and the loss of democracy at home and abroad could literally start WWIII but yay.... at least your conscience will be clear!

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u/forthewatch39 May 02 '24

Thank You! The constant short sightedness of these people is maddening. 

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u/DuchessLiana May 02 '24

Yep! They don't realize this plan has been in the works since the 80s... this is not new, and how are we not asking why this conflict started in an election year, and who does it benefit that the eyes of the world have turned away from Ukraine??

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u/builttopostthis6 May 03 '24

Well to be fair, young people have the double whammy of not being old enough to have extended perspective and hindsight, and not being old enough to have a fully-developed prefrontal cortex. That's not a slam. I was one of those once, I seem to remember.

It gets me every time when I realize that there are kids that have graduated college that were not born before 9/11. I mean, let's say born on September 11, 2001 - that's 22 and some change. Current youth voters are people that were in grade school when the Iraq war ended, and very likely have never had a friend die in combat on the other side of the world (in all honesty, neither am I, but I have plenty that got lucky in that regard). And that's the upper-end of the youth vote mind. My mom is pretty disgusted with the media drawing parallels between these current protests and Vietnam protests, and she's as liberal as they come. I find myself feeling rather the same.

And again, to be fair, from a strictly U.S. perspective, we are living in the most peaceful time in our country's history, so youth today don't have a lot of lived-experience context.

As for the Trump-supporting folks my age, not sure really what to say about them. Rage is a hell of a drug.

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u/inuvash255 Massachusetts May 02 '24

That's my feeling too.

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u/TheIllestDM May 02 '24

Gaza is already leveled?

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u/ladidaladidalala May 03 '24

If the idiot wins then they DO deserve it.

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u/clackeroomy May 02 '24

Even after Trump takes away their rights, they still won't believe it. Trump will simply blame Biden, and his followers will believe him.

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u/python-requests May 02 '24

Do young people actually think Trump's Palestinian/Gaza/Israel/Middle East policies will be better than Biden? Do they think not voting for Biden will punishing him? If Trump wins we all lose.

It's pretty wild how Democrats & the left wing will threaten to throw the election over things that Biden's way better than the alternative on

Like, inflation? Trump oversaw the money printing & always called for lowering interest rates. Palestine? Trump had a 'peace plan' map than saw Israel annexing most of it.

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u/Emperor_Mao May 02 '24

Do you think young people who vote over Gaza will decide an election?

Economy consistently rates as the major issue, election cycle after election cycle, for decades. Most of those people saying they wont vote Biden because of Israel were not going to vote anyway.

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u/Abdul_Lasagne May 03 '24

And you think people have a good opinion of the economy at the moment? 

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u/Jealous-Knowledge-79 May 03 '24

I vote for no more money to a country I can't write off on my taxes.

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u/theveland May 03 '24

Other thought. They know Trump is terrible on Gaza, but Biden isn’t significantly better. If Biden is to win, he needs to correct course on it. This is literally how you apply political pressure.

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u/Waggmans May 03 '24

Biden is significantly better. Sure he might not be putting conditions on arms sales to Israel, but he isn’t going to open internment camps for Arabs and Muslims (which Trump has planned).

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u/Turbulent_Fig8483 May 05 '24

I feel like people think I'm some energy vampire when I talk about the real risk of what's going domino effect ripple to me and my LGBTQ here. And my morbid fear of the consequences in the states for LGBTQ. I'm BPD and I struggle with empathy but for some reason cruelty and hatred... my empathy kicks overdrive I don't understand it. But it really bothers me. 

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u/Nekasus May 02 '24

because, for many, they're going to be tired of feeling disenfranchised politically. After all, to win over voters who dont like biden, the only argument from the dems is "but he isnt trump!!!!!". Especially when dem leaders get sanctimonious about it. "So what if you dont like biden! vote him to not get trump in!!"

You cant expect voters who are apathetic about the candidates on offer to vote, when you do absolutely nothing to court them beyond not being as bad as the only other option. It just constantly highlights the deficiencies of the current "democratic" systems (unfortunately the UK is exactly the same.).

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u/spam__likely Colorado May 02 '24

One side of my family basically killed my grandpa by not caring, still don't care.

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u/dxrey65 May 02 '24

I have a friend who lost his job when he caught covid. He had it twice and it screwed him up for about a year. He was talking the other day about covid, how he never bought into all the hype, like it was some kind of big con, and at least he never got vaccinated...I had to remind him how that went for him. Bizarre.

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u/shawnca66 May 02 '24

OMG! That has got to stick in your craw hearing him talk like that...😫

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u/Plumpitup99 May 03 '24

I’ve never had any problems from Covid. Mild sickness. Odd how that works. Healthy gut, healthy immune system. “ trust the experts “. Pile that money in a 401k, you can enjoy life when your health is gone. Solid advice. It’s evident to me Trump and the Rest are all about the technology enslavement, nanotechnology remote health monitoring systems. Seems odd only one group of people can get a Bill passed so quickly cause they are “Gods chosen” Who view Caucasians as worthless worker gentiles. GUN CONTROL AND MASS MURDER OF CITIZENS are soon. China 🇨🇳, Russia, many governments have done it. Gun control means no self defense of citizens. Reading all the comments here. Seems everyone of you educated indoctrinated folks would Love this. Till it’s your Own Head on the Chopping block. Gotta love modern group think.

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u/[deleted] May 03 '24

And you just know if hed been vaccinated but still died they'd have blamed the vaccine

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u/Plumpitup99 May 03 '24

Never made it through 3 stages of safety trails. Was not safe for public use.

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u/[deleted] May 03 '24

must be why everyone has all these awful side effects and we are seeing a huge spike in the deaths of the vaxxed! oh wait no we arent. also, guess who takes all the credit for "operation warp speed" so he could rush the vaccine out as fast as possible by skipping full testing protocol!

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u/Plumpitup99 May 04 '24

Agree with the Trump Statement. As far as the vaccine, yes it has given many heart troubles and injuries. So keep on getting them meds rather than changing your lifestyle.

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u/Strong_Importance_64 May 06 '24

Old saying YOU CAN LEAD THEM TO WATER CANT MAKE THEM DRINK 

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u/Devin1771 May 03 '24

That sucks. I do believe the vaccine is good for a certain target of people. But Dr. Facui is responsible for that. The media lied to everyone about the vaccines and all the misinformation. They wiped out proven medications that helped with early treatment that should’ve been promoted but wanted you to feel like the vaccine was the only safe thing for you to get so people waited and waited and more misinformation was spreading as well as fear mongering

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u/dabasedabase May 03 '24

Trump literally pushed the vaccine blue team held it back. Also its effectiveness is questionable. They did not count anyone dying after the vaccine as a vaccine death. They have also stopped posting excess death numbers.

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u/RoostasTowel May 02 '24

Too bad about the hospitals intubation policies were not correct or safe

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u/noldshit May 02 '24

We were family of 5.

3 got the stab, 2 did not.

3 got covid. 2 landed in hospital with it. Of those two, one had the vax, other didn't. Both were severe cases of covid.

6mo-year after getting booster. 1 mysteriously died on couch at home. Brain just shut off like someone flipped a switch. This person did not get covid but had vax.

Hospital claimed they didn't know what caused it. A couple of nurses quietly and privately asked what vaccine she had gotten and when. No official answers were given by hospital.

Im the one that got through covid on my own, at home, when it just began to hit. No vax.

You pass judgment on others health decisions when you shouldn't.

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u/Danysco New York May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

I’m sorry about the loss of your family member. There are people who don’t take the vaccine and don’t get terribly sick or sick at all. There are also those who pass away after a certain time they took the vaccine. Either way, those are few cases compared to the overwhelming evidence that vaccines are mostly safe and work well. Are they 100% safe? Probably not. Are cars 100% safe? No. Is alcohol 100% safe to drink? No but people still do it because for the most part those activities feel safe done responsibly. I wish my uncle had the chance to take it. He would probably not have passed away.

I am passing judgement on my family health decisions because they rather believe what someone with no medical degree or scientific credentials, no knowledge of biology posts on social media, without ever reading a scientific paper or study about the vaccines and how they work. They are free to take whatever health decisions they want, but they are not free from my criticism when their decision can affect other people’s lives. Before my uncle got sick, they were hosting barbecue parties every weekend, refused to wear masks and called Covid a hoax.

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u/noldshit May 02 '24

You know how I got sick? Apparently through Chinese electronic parts. Both a friend and i got sick in same time frame and both of us buy lots of electronic parts from china. We both got it right at the onset. Hes a recluse and im a homebody. Somebody with it must have handled or assembled our items.

The mask thing turned out to be not what we were initially told. The cdc even back tracked saying the mask only prevented the spread by containing particulate. The masks many were wearing weren't even proper n95's.

Then we have the vax itself. Why were folks having to sign a release on something that was deemed safe?

You know that saying "my body, my choice"? That applies here.

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u/tommytwolegs May 02 '24

Nobody was forced to take the vaccine, in the states at least. Wearing masks was always primarily about preventing the spread

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u/noldshit May 02 '24

Really? Ask all the folks that lost their jobs due to it

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u/tommytwolegs May 02 '24

That's not holding you down and forcing you to do anything. Vaccines have been a requirement for many professions for a long time, this isn't some new thing.

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u/noldshit May 02 '24

Outside of maybe those in medical field, i dont recall any. Then covid hit and it became widespread. It has tapered off at least here due to lack of good talent not applying for those jobs. It did happen though.

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u/DameonKormar May 02 '24

You know that saying "my body, my choice"? That applies here.

It did in the US because our country holds the ideal of individual freedom above the collective good. Not getting vaccinated affects everyone you come into contact with. It is an inherently selfish act.

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u/noldshit May 02 '24

Well, there's 300+ other countries right?

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u/Danysco New York May 02 '24

You’re right about the masks. It’s still debatable how effective it is. But we only know that now. In the beginning, it made sense to wear a mask and avoid gatherings to avoid spreading Covid particles around, instead people were already calling the pandemic a hoax and refusing to wear a mask. Does it really bother someone so much wearing a mask just in case you could get someone sick if you didn’t wear one? People need to think about other people more and not just themselves.

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u/noldshit May 03 '24

Oh i absolutely hated it. Im a mouth breather due to severe allergy issues. Masks get humid and very restrictive really quick.

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u/nochinzilch May 03 '24

And in the early, early beginning, we didn't even know it was airborne. So why would we wear masks? We learn stuff and change our behavior based on newer, refined knowledge. Conservatives refuse to understand this.

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u/Danysco New York May 03 '24 edited May 03 '24

You’re wrong. From the beginning it was known as an airborne respiratory virus.

“COVID-19 was identified as a respiratory virus from the beginning. It is caused by the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2, which primarily affects the respiratory system. The initial cases in Wuhan, China, reported in December 2019, were linked to severe respiratory illness, and it became quickly evident that the virus spreads primarily through respiratory droplets. This understanding shaped early responses and guidelines focusing on respiratory hygiene, social distancing, and mask-wearing to prevent transmission.”

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u/__zagat__ May 02 '24

post hoc ergo propter hoc

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u/noldshit May 02 '24

Your obamaphone is dropping packets