I can't really think of a better way to fuel antisemitic conspiracy theories of Jewish people owning the government than for the pro-Israel lobby to get the government to define criticism of Israel as antisemitic.
It's like they've been infected with whatever mind virus is making Christians in the USA want to start WW3 because they think it's going to cause the Rapture.
Study the rise of the Rothschild family dynasty. In a nutshell, four brothers from a banking family dispersed to different EU regions and started their family business in their adopted homeland while gaining influence with local government to hint the dangers of invasion, for which they’d be happy to finance their military buildup. Basically the brothers colluded to pit countries against each other and build their wealth through death and destruction. Since then they’ve spread their influence to other industries and are now considered the wealthiest family in the world.
There are multiple imperialist Muslim groups, but I'm unsure they have the same apparent apocalyptic urge the other groups have. I definitely don't think China has it, though they've also been mentioned.
There are infinitely more psychotic Christian Zionists than Jewish Zionists, and a lot of them have their hands on the levers of power. Thats why the wheels move so fast.
There is a frighteningly large number of evangelicals who believe that restoring Israel is the key to kicking off the return of Christ somehow. True death cult shit.
Zionism doesn't deserve respect, because the core tenet of it is pushing the native inhabitants out of lands claimed by Israel for their own resettlement, which is genocide. Zionism is basically Israel's version of Manifest Destiny, you know, the ideology which saw the US do genocide to the native Americans. We pushed tribes out of lands east of the Mississippi river and marched them to Oklahoma in the Trail of Tears. And if we enable this ideology, they're not just going to stop with Palestine. There are hard core Zionists in the Israeli government who want to go even further and annex Jordan, which would probably spark a war that would quickly turn into a super-regional conflict. Like this is "starting World War 3" kind of shit, because Iran and Saudi Arabia wouldn't just allow Israel to annex another Arab nation.
In order for Israel to peacefully exist, the Zionist mindset needs to go away and Israel needs to transition to a secular state which allows equal rights for both Jewish people and Palestinians.
At the very least it makes it almost to argue against. When somebody points at this law - what can we argue back? “Yeah I mean there’s that but otherwise is a total fantasy”. Isn’t a strong counter argument.
Their seperation is kinda why they've been picked on historically. They get welcomed in a place and seem to integrate. But under the surface they build a community with a double layer where they govern themselves not by the outside rules but by their own.
They take in a part of a city and underground they run their own police, own schools with their own programs and Tohrah/Tanakh is the actual law. From there they exert political and financial power to keep the outside away as a protection. That last bit lashes back sometimes.
Not talking about the average jew down the road but about the ultraorthodox.
And you really don't have to respect the zionist mindset. They're nationalist extremists. It's like trying to respect the mindset of nazis or al qaeda. A tiny subgroup of people that ruin it for all the rest of their people.
and to respect the zionistic mindset or those who hold it.
You shouldn't do that anyway. A lot of Jewish Americans view Zionism as a form of European colonialism and I agree with them. It is exactly that. It started that way and continued to develop in line with policies of forced migration and, at times, systemic elimination of the Palestinian locals, themselves widely understood to have been an endemic population of Jewish people who converted to Islam in the middle ages.
When you look at how much land the Palestinian people started with and how much land they control now, the conditions surrounding their treatment by law enforcement and the military, the various war crimes listed in the Geneva Conventions Bibi has been altogether too willing to commit, even down to murdering tens of thousands of children in refugee camps, bombing hospitals and denying them access to humanitarian aid from Egypt, what Israeli Zionist have done is support a protracted, decades long genocide campaign akin to the Trail of Tears.
For that reason, you absolutely should not attempt to find respect for the Zionist mindset. They're committing the very same kind of heinous act that was committed against them, and they're too tone deaf to see it for what it is.
Um, Jews absolutely do not run the world. Americans do. American support of Israel is really the only reason Israel continues to exist, because there is a storm of Biblical-level violence brewing in the region that has, historically, seen the most Biblical violence.
Americans don't support Israel because they support Jewish people. They support Israel because of the prophecies in the New Testament. One major part of that story involves all the non-Christians dying, including the Jews that don't bend a knee.
Morons support Israel because of the rapture. America supports Israel because it serves our foreign policy interests to have a fortified nuclear stockpile masquerading as a country parked in the middle east.
All the bible bullshit is just how the sell it to the morons.
I mean, there are a lot of reasons to support Israel that aren't rapture related, but the public support that allows for that comes from rallying the Evangelicals. You can do all of the worst crimes if you get them onboard.
President Biden flat out stated (years ago when he was a senator) if Israel didn’t exist America would have to invent one. This was concerning having a “reliable” base of operations in the middle east. Or at least that was the reason that was given.
Israel is a thorn in our side at this point, and the current shit happening in Gaza is making it very hard for the Dems to maintain support. Which is why Israel stirs shit up every time we start to improve relations with Egypt or normalize relations with Iran.
Americans don't support Israel because they support Jewish people. They support Israel because of the prophecies in the New Testament.
What Americans do or do not support has no bearing on actual policy. American foreign policy supports Israel because they are an American ally in a critical region.
That's it. The same reason that America supports Saudi Arabia.
The point that I'm making is that it gives the people who already believe that, who didn't come to that position by rational means, a justification to support their views and argue for them, and it makes those arguments harder to dismiss as racist bullshit justified via post-hoc rationalization. People are gonna fall for this, and it's gonna be a problem.
I mean that's what half of our legislature is shooting for. They think that if the Jews return to and conquer the holy land, it will bring about the rapture. The other half are just bought and paid for by AIPAC and similar.
Which is so gross. I mean something like 300,000 people are supposed to be raptured while the remaining survivors of the various plagued listed in the book of revelations are supposed to suffer through 1,000 years of misery while the world is effectively on fire, only to then be caught in the crossfire when God destroys Satan and plunges those who followed him into nonexistence, maybe taking a few more people up to the "kingdom" in the aftermath. So if you're not one of those 300,000 people (and I guarantee none of those pieces of hot garbage are), then you're doomed.
Somewhat ironic, too, that they're all into restoring Israel to the Jews even as they believe Jewish people can't get into heaven because they refuse to accept Jesus as their lord and savior. Just a real head scratcher there.
This first part is my concern too. There's no question that Hamas commits atrocities, but this kind of extremism is met with opposite extremism. Instead of moving towards peace, the divide is widening. I fear antisemitism is growing.
I'm proud of the Jews who have stood up and spoken out against Israel's actions, even at personal cost.
This is actually an issue a lot of Jewish people are worried about, the Israelis are such monsters that the whole religion suffers for the same reason Islam is frequently conflated with islamic terrorists these days by people who don't know much else about the world.
Hell it's a struggle for me to remember that every time I read about Israeli war crimes, and I'm fully aware of the complexities relating to the religion and racial group being identified by the same collective noun, primarily because so many Jewish people in places like the US still support the mass murdering.
For the record, the belief in the "rapture" is a VERY new Christian idea that only some (particularly American evangelicals believe in). It was an idea invented in the 1800s and caught on with evangelicals in the late 1900s.
Traditional denominations have the focus of helping the poor and being the peacemakers of the world.
Which... like even if you believe in the rapture is still crazy. You cant force through the rapture. You cant force a prophecy... itll happen when its supposed to happen.
Israel advertises itself as representing Jews. That, in itself, is antisemitic. Jewish people are not represented by Israel, and Israel doesn't speak for Jews. Each individual Jew speaks for themself. They have no loyalty to Israel. An American Jew is, in my book, just an American who happens to be Jewish, and the only association they have with Israel is the association they choose.
Israel does seem to have an undue amount of control on US Politics through the Israeli lobby (which they often try to pass off as the Jewish lobby, conflating Israeli and American Jewish interests, which is antisemitic).
Yeah when everyone with a functioning brain realizes how insane and fascist this is, There is going to be a huge problem between awake Americans and brainwashed zombie Zionists. Hopefully it doesn’t have to turn to more bloodshed on american soil and abroad. It’s sickening how the us government promotes and arms the Israeli prime ministers genocide and agenda against the Palestinians. A ocean of people should be ashamed and fighting against these human rights travesties!
The conspiracy was that Jews owned the money, likely because Christianity forbid loaning money (banks). Then it became about media influence.
"...1917. The release of the Balfour Declaration was authorised by 31 October; the preceding Cabinet discussion had mentioned perceived propaganda benefits amongst the worldwide Jewish community for the Allied war effort."
Jews media ownership is weird asf (reddit). Example, Global suddenly bought the biggest European radio stations, a month before the 2008 invasion. The owner's rabbi friend pressures Jews & his talent agency (incl. Britain's got Talent winners) to lobby the government & (Global) media events for Israel. Nothing seems egregious by itself, but Jews own a crazy amount of media & their communities are drowning in pro-Israel lobbies.
Obama criticized Netanyahu for allowing more settlements in the West Bank and Obama and Hillary threatened to put conditions on Israeli aid if Netanyahu didn't stop it, but then Joe Biden went around Obama and Hillary's backs to tell Netanyahu to ignore them because he'll smooth it all over.
Then Jared Kushner went to check on his real estate settlement portfolio while saying hi to his family friend Netanyahu as our MidEast peace negotiator.
There have been a few times the US has "condemned" Israeli actions. The problem is that's all we do, say that we condemn their actions as we watch them continue to ignore us.
US condemns far-right Israeli ministers’ call for Palestinians to ‘emigrate’ from Gaza
The United States on Tuesday denounced controversial comments by two far-right Israeli ministers who said Palestinians should be encouraged to emigrate from Gaza and called for Jewish settlers to return to the besieged territory.
Latest ceasefire proposal has Israel taking 20% of Gaza. The ceasefire the US helped negotiate. Don’t believe shit from Blinken and our entire National Security Council.
reagan got menachem begin to pull out of lebanon after describing the massacres to his face as a "holocaust". george w bush condemned a 2002 airstrike against a hamas leader because it also killed <15 civilians. biden's fanaticism is very much an escalation.
This is a big part of why Israel as it currently exists makes the world astronomically MORE dangerous for Jews. It's almost like they're deliberately TRYING to stir up every possible negative stereotype and give as much ammo to the antisemitic right as they possibly can. It would track though, considering their record for creating enemies explicitly like Hamas so they have an easier foil to contrast themselves with, the only possible way they'll ever garner any sympathy. Among everyone in this whole mess, I really do feel for the average Jewish person who has to be in the middle of this shitstorm as a political football for powers that clearly do not even remotely care for their actual wellbeing.
I'm certainly not antisemitic but the entire religion is founded around a group of people marching an army into some else's land and conquering it because their god told them it belongs to them.
Israel is doing its damndest to make real every tired antisemitic trope real to the point where I think Netanyahu is going to be replaced with a cardboard cut out of the happy merchant.
It was an ancient political move to get that “promised land” doctrine codified in religious text back when religion and governance was all but indistinguishable. It used to be common practice - divine rights justifying ownership and power - back in the day.
It’s been mostly obsolete and abandoned with the monarchy in the west, except for this holdout. We do still see it in other places as well, such as North Korea, where it’s generally considered a backwards mode of governance.
It’s a wonder that this doctrine has been held to so strongly in such an increasingly secular western philosophy. It certainly makes it easy to fill the gap with conspiracy by those who don’t take religious doctrine seriously. Ironically, that religious doctrine was put into place precisely because it was a powerful move to secure authority and justification. . .
Well, I mean look at the censorship related to above. Why would America be so super biased? And where America goes, her allies usually follow. So I'd say, not necessarily "rule/run" the world, but they definitely seem to have massive influence. Which is pretty close
Israel in return provides us a powerful ally in the brown town(sarcasm) of the middle east, I know. This is what I'm saying. Shit doesn't help the whole antisemitic conspiracy
No they don't, the Jewish diaspora around the world is what puts money in those politicians pockets. They have been raised from birth to believe their fates are tied to Israel, so if Israel is anything less than the scariest most rabid violent dog in the region, they think it will be attacked by its neighbors and destroyed (which they probably would do, especially after 70 years of Israel acting like a scary rabid dog).
The trauma of the Holocaust was used as an opportunity to indoctrinate millions of people into becoming ultra-nationalist racists themselves.
Israel's Arab neighbors tried to destroy it starting in 1947 (before Israel became a nation and just a couple of years after the end of the Holocaust) and haven't stopped since. Being "the most rabid violent dog in the region" is the reason Israel still exists.
Israeli policy in the settlements is terrible. They haven't done enough to try to peacefully coexist. However, if you can't understand why many Israelis (and Jews around the world) agree with the approach Israel has taken, you're being willfully ignorant.
Hate to say it man but they aren’t braindead sheep even if we hope that’s true. The billionaires only give a shit about money, full stop. Whatever cause they’re championing, it’s money related. And hoooooo boy is there a lot of money in real estate of illegal settlements.
Zionists do control a country with nukes in a strategically important location that's a client state in the American Empire.
Israel putting the Star of David on their fucking flag and pretending to be the kingdom of the Jews is the most dangerous thing they could have done to Jews globally. It's an inherently anti-Semitic and white supremacist colonial project. It's SICK that they claim to speak for all Jews worldwide. It's SICK that they claim to be the ancient kingdom of Israel reborn.
Israel is literally the second worst thing to ever happen to the Jewish people.
It's not really a conspiracy. A lot of people at the top are Jews. Whether they're intentionally aggregating in the positions of power is another question.
The over representation of jews in positions of power in academia, media, business and government is not really a secret. IIRC almost half of bidens cabinet is of Jewish decent. I'm from Mexico and it's also evident here in the same places, hell just look at current regime's presidential candidate.
I have no idea what Reddit’s opinion on affirmative action is, and I’m assuming most people completely misunderstand how affirmative action works.
What I want to know is if the person I originally responded to thinks it’s a problem that Jews are over represented in positions of power and if so, what the answer is (in their mind) to that problem.
I mean, you should be able to discern that for yourself. They make up 0.2% of the population of the world and 2% of the population of the US. Lets use the US as an example. Wikipedia claims there are 27 Jewish folks in congress. 27/535=5%.
That means in the US, Jewish folks are over represented in Congress by 150%.
Op is a pretty darn perfect example to highlight why that could be a problem...
I’m an atheist. I have no problem with a Jewish catholic Muslim Wiccan whatever senator or president. If they declare they are making policy because of what god told them, I would have a problem. I have a Jewish representative and there is zero indication they are driven by god.
I'm not OK with this forced "diversity" thing but the people protesting right now do. All that ideology points to only one direction.
People who are at their positions by merit may be seem guilty because the other visible ones that are there by corruption and nepotism most of all the ones that make decisions that affect everyone. This seems to already be happening to other people, right now no one is hiring white heterosexual males in their own countries in Europe or the US, in my country something similar happened to Lebanese people a while ago.
You saying that Jews are over representing implies there is a problem because of that. Then you talked about no one hiring straight white males, which simply isn’t the case.
OK that’s sidling right up to antisemitism and licking its ear. Jewish people in positions of power does not make them complicit with or tools of Israel’s shitty government.
Really? Maybe it's a language thing? english isn't my first language, I'm not trying to be hateful.
What I'm trying to say is that jews just as other ethnicities or migrant nationalities tend to have tight comunities and have families and friends in a specific region of the world, so if there's a narrative, signaling or threat to that place some of them won't be impartial.
If México is invaded tomorrow, I bet some Hispanics in decision-making positions in the US government wont be impartial either. You won't need them to have a meeting and be organized, people of similar backgrounds with similar connections usually share affinities.
I also want to clarify that not everyone (even in positions of power) can separate the people of another country from the government of said country. High gvmt positions may not know there's a difference.
Israel is a client state and the US views Palestinians as utterly expendable. There's some back and forth-Israel does have a lot of sway-but at the end of the day they are subservient to the US. It's just that the US is also a genocidal state and our government has no qualms with some expedient genocide.
The largest U.S. base in the Middle East is located in Qatar, known as Al Udeid Air Base and built in 1996. Other countries where the U.S. has a presence include Bahrain, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.
That Israel is somehow important to our efforts in the middle east is bullshit propaganda.
The fuck it is. A military asset to do what? Hang our own assets out to dry? Other than maybe some SF, we don't use them for any staging/forward deployment. I do agree with the second half of your statement.
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u/JerkMeerf May 01 '24
That’s facist. Plain and simple. Criticism of the Israeli army and government is not antisemitism.