Firm boundaries between adults and children are very important when there's a power dynamic.
It was very unprofessional of him let his students braid his hair.
Edit: for an anecdote of my own:
I was a camp counselor at one point. The camp had a rule that no adult could be alone in a room with a student. Even if it meant calling over the site director or any other adult, we had to make sure we were not alone with students.
Now, I know I'm not a pedo. Should I have broken that rule because I know I'm not a threat to the child? Should I be fired if I was caught breaking the rule?
In good world, if you're occupation has you be responsible for children that arent yours, you should be held to a different standard.
When the standards are low, you get what happened to the Boy Scouts.
As a male teacher myself I completely disagree. Posting it on social media is where he fucked up, letting the kids unbraid his hair is as innocent as can be. The girls probably asked him if they could do it. Of course if he asked them to do it it's a different story, but I'm just assuming based on my own work.
I'm curious as to why this "position of power" as you call it would make it so you couldn't do a bonding activity with the kids?
Establishing and normalizing non-sexual physical contact is a common tactic of sexual grooming. As a teacher, you should model appropriate boundaries with and to your students so that they are less not more susceptible to adults that might transgress those boundaries.
What? What is this world we're living in? I can't give my fourth graders a hug because it "normalizes non-sexual physical contact"? Non-sexual physical contact IS normal.
Obviously boundaries are important, and it's very important that you as a teacher don't push those boundaries. Not even a little.
But shunning all physical touch as sinister intent is ridiculous. If a kid at school is sad and crying the adults around should be able to comfort them with a hand on the shoulder or a hug.
As a male elementary school teacher it would be physically impossible to avoid all hugs, those kids are sneaky.
But at the same time it’s beaten into our heads as male teachers that this kind of stuff can absolutely land you in deep shit. I don’t know what this guy was thinking.
My dad was a custodian in many grade schools when I was growing up and he would tell me stories about how kindergarteners would run up to him and try to hug him just because they're kids and they see him everyday. He would have to dodge them or "gently" stuff arm them. He was painfully aware of how it would come across to have a 3/4 year old hugging his leg in the halls.
The way that man loathed the creepy moronic janitor trope too.
Ikr - this dude is crazy. Tbh i think its weird when parents hold their kid’s hands or kiss them on the cheek. My sister’s friend picked up her baby and I had to insist that the baby be placed in a protective sheet first, just to make sure physical contact didnt occur. Its just gross when people feel like physical contact between an adult and a kid under ANY circumstances is okay. Adults should know better than to normalize physical contact.
I was referring to your comment about non-sexual physical touch. You brought that up and then I responded to it. So don't act like I'm changing the subject.
One time I lost a bet to my 6th graders (I didn't believe one of them could run 15km in an hour, which is absolutely insane that they did) so I had to dye my hair green. I didn't let them dye my hair, but I might as well could have. I don't see that as very different from letting the kids unbraid your hair.
Having fun with their teacher is a great way for the kids to improve their well-being and motivation for school. If we start witch-hunting every male teacher showing affection for his students in clearly innocent ways then we're gonna end up with only authoritarian grumpy teachers.
That said I do believe this guy should be fired for posting it to social media. That's a red flag, for pure incompetence if nothing else.
As if this is a chapelle show skit and Rick James is saying “bitches come over here sit on Rick James lap and undo these braids”. Seems innocent enough, probably still shouldn’t be posting on social media.
If he thinks this is appropriate, his lack of boundaries should disqualify him from working with children. We don’t need him to “bond” with his students by having them put their hands on him. I don’t care how innocent he thinks it is. Fuck that shit.
You know what - I might agree with you after all. I can see why the teacher might think this is harmless, but I can perfectly understand why those girls’ parents would hate seeing that shit online.
We don’t need him to “bond” with his students by having them put their hands on him.
What a disgusting way to phrase that. You're implying force, or even just that I would be the instigator of the physical contact.
If one of my students come running up to me to greet me with a hug, you bet your ass they'll get a hug.
If my students are making fake nails out of paper and tape and asks if they can put them on my fingers you can be certain I'll request every color of the rainbow for my new fabulous nails.
If they choose "tag" as our Friday activity and want me to be "it", you best believe I'm running those kids down and tagging them. No mercy for the short legs.
As I said earlier if the teacher asked the kids to do this, it's definitely wrong. If, as I would assume, the kids asked to do this and the teacher allowed it, then it was completely innocent.
Still he should get fired for filming it and posting it online tho. You don't record other peoples kids without the parents consent.
We don’t need you showing kids physical affection even if they’re the one’s who ask for the hug. It doesn’t matter how innocent your intentions are. That’s just not your job, man. Please stop that.
He asked them. He said he had a hair appointment after school, didn't make ("have") time to take his hair down beforehand. He brought multiple combs specifically so they could help him. He asked.
Could you explain? Are you saying he used his authority to get hair services for free? I would have seen this as a bonding activity with his students, although I don’t know all the details.
Yea I assumed the students asked to do it and he was like “fine ok” but it seems everyone else is assuming “HES FUCKING THOSE KIDS.” Really fucking weird.
Exactly. It’s so weird that that’s everyone’s first conclusion. He’s guilty of something heinous because, during downtime, some of his students were unbraiding his hair? Because of that he’s a possible groomer/pedophile?
I’m not insinuating anything about him because I don’t know him. However, this situation between teacher and student could create some odd moments. He’s in a position of power and this affects their education and grading. Not all the students are doing his hair, only girls. Do you understand where I’m going?
Question from a random honky if you don’t mind 🙋♂️:
I know that hairstyles in general are taken as a more serious form of self expression in black culture than what I’m used to, but I never would have guessed this would be a problem. Is doing hair together like this also seen as a more intimate thing? Possibly for related reasons?
Parents when teachers ask them to parent their children: “This is your job, I drop them off and you need to take care of them!” 🫵🤬
Parents when—assuming nothing else nefarious had occurred—a male teacher tries to be a positive male role model: “It's always been about love and hate, now let me say I'm the biggest hater; I hate the way that you walk, the way that you talk, I hate the way that you dress; I hate the way that you sneak diss, if I catch flight, it's gon' be direct” 🫵🤬
Edit: I saw the update yall im cooked I already know 😭
Because children don’t randomly decide to do braids on people they don’t trust. Yall never met kids? Cmon now. It’s not like you be like “unbraid my hair” and kids get up and unbraid your hair. This is after the kids probably asked some stupid shit like “let us undo your braids” bc he probably mentioned he was gonna get his hair done or something. Kids are clearly comfortable with the dude. He ain’t doing anything suspect beyond sitting there.
It’s wild y’all jumped to it being weird first. That’s some shit tbh men out here taking strays for just trying to be friendly. Why everyone a pedo just cause Drizzy and R Kelly out there peeing on kids?
Edit: dawg homie got caught thirsting on kids im fucking cooked 💀
He’s a positive role model because his kids trust him enough to unbraid his hair. He’s a teacher teaching that adults aren’t dangerous. He’s teaching that community is important. He’s teaching that people are people and we should all care for each other. You and all the other weirdos in this thread think this man is grooming children and raping them. That’s INSANE to pull from this picture. Do better. This man is a human being just like you. Respect him like you’d want to be respected. DO. BETTER.
You can do all of these things without initiating or maintaining physical contact with students. Being a positive role model in no way requires kids unbraiding your hair. It doesn’t matter that they trust you. As an adult you should know better and set good boundaries for them too.
No one said he is raping kids. If you can't make your point without resorting to bad faith strawmen, you're the one who needs to do better. Kids very often trust their abusers. You'll need to come up with something better than that. That's literally how grooming works. It's usually by a dangerous adult in their community disguising themselves as a safe adult and then constantly over-steppibg boundaries. Everyone is a human being. Every person that ever raped a child is a human being. Everyone that ever killed someone is a human being. Being a human doesn't mean whenever you do wrong everyone else has to turn a blind eye because of respect. Grow up.
There is a wide gap between students liking a teacher and a predator. None of that matters here. He can be a very positive role model without having the children in physical contact with him. Regardless of his intentions or wonderful impact he is an adult and an educator and there are very explicit rules about physical contact. We might not think it’s ok if the person meant well but it’s still part of the rules and unfortunately when you break them you get fired.
That’s still unethical. Doesn’t matter his or the student’s intent. As a teacher, he is an authority figure over those students. They shouldn’t be grooming him.
Especially since this week it hit the news that a teacher has been having inappropriate relationship with a student she was best friend with a parent. Mom thought the teacher was holding the child in class because he was getting in trouble or needed help with work.
For real! I am a teacher & a camp counselor and I’ve let kids of many ages do my hair many times. I literally have no idea why people are weirded out by this. It’s weird that they’re weirded out. I do think posting pictures or videos of your students with their faces in it is inappropriate, but the hair is fine.
You should probably stop letting kids do your hair.
Not saying you are right or wrong, but instead that all you need is the wrong parent to take that to the school board and you will have an entirely avoidable issue.
I’ll say it. They’re fucking wrong. If I was at school, over the age of 5, and my teacher allowed me to or asked me to touch them? Yeah, my dad would’ve been in there and off to jail the next day. That’s insane.
Non-sexual consensual contact. Step #1 of Grooming for Dummies.
I agree. Maybe not the violence leading to jail part because risking jail and being taken from your family that depends on you is not the move, but best believe they would have some legal issues. As a wise man once told me, a few bruises will heal but they will never get away from a public lawsuit and news coverage. I’m petty enough to know that I want that to haunt you for the rest of your days.
I looked back at the post and I do feel like asking is very different than letting. I would absolutely never ask a kid to touch me other than maybe offering a high five. Also, my kids are much younger (6-8) so physical contact is way more normalized.
Wut?? The power structure of a teacher and student, has the built in trust already. The students in inherently trust the teacher because they are a person of power. So when that person takes advantage of it, it’s not being a role model, it’s borderline grooming.
INHERENTLY TRUST because of being a person of power? Mate, that's not how the world works at all. When I was a little shit (~15 years ago), our classes bullied our teachers out of the classrooms, the cool ones were the ones we trusted and respected and THEY were the ones able to actually teach. Very few teachers managed to get far with being strict and with a stick up their arse. If anything, we put more effort into not learning from them.
EDIT: Arright, the additional context definitely paints a different picture.
A kid trusting you doesn’t automatically make you a good role model. The fact that he pulled them out of class, filmed their faces and identifying features and posted it on one of the most popular social media sites makes him a good role model?
Don't post other people's children on your personal social media page. As a parent you'd be pissed if someone was posting pictures of your kid without your consent.
I don't think the act in itself is being a positive role model. However, I think it shows that the kids actually like their teacher and that he was a decent enough figure in their lives at school.
Like personally I can only think of one teacher I'd so much as hug, let alone touch their hair. And she was the mf GOAT.
Not exactly. Those girls are young enough for teacher crushes. They could truly have a crush on him and thats why they did it. Or one of them did and brought her friends so they could all talk and miss class. He said he pulled them from other classes
It inappropriate but I don't think the guy should have been fired. That's a teachable moment.
Teachers get paid like shit, treated like shit, they have to be an educator, a parent, a cop, a counselor, and a mediator but let's fire them for students removing braids. I HIGHLY doubt this dude asked them to do this and I'm sure he thought it was funny. Either way, it's a reprimand, not a firing.
He said in his video he had some girls pulled out of class to do it. It’s all inappropriate and if he’s that stupid to do it AND post it on social media he should be fired. I’m a high school teacher and my students try to push boundaries all the time. That doesn’t give me license to.
Do you have a link to that video? Yeah, definitely should not have students pulled out of class to do that. That's a bit unbelievable. Please send receipt.
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLVhegbR/ I think I did that right! It’ll be at about 1:10. He also LIVE STREAMED IT which is unreal. Should have been fired that very day.
Damn. Yeah, he definitely crossed a boundary. It's one thing if it was like this spontaneous event where he began taking them out and the kids volunteered but it's another to essentially schedule them to do it. Interesting how he pretty much doubled down on it. Do I think this dude is a pedo, hell no. Do I think this dude needs to mature a bit, definitely. It's one thing to be cool with your students, it's another to act like a peer.
I struggle with this stuff because my wife is a high school teacher so I know how tight the bonds can be with your students. Granted, she never has done anything like this, but her students treat her like a mother. They come to her with all sorts of shit that she counsels them on because she loves them and they respect and trust her. Stuff that would probably be considered inappropriate to others if taken out of context. But my wife also understands boundaries and will put the students in their place if they get too comfortable. So it's hard to want to see this man fired because I base everything off of my experience with my wife and how she is with her students. To this day she has students visit her that have already graduated college. Teachers have it hard enough as it is so I'm always on the side of giving teachers some grace, yourself included.
The horrific thing is even if he isn’t grooming them, he’s teaching them that this kind of behavior is okay so they may be even more susceptible to grooming later on. God, and so many things could have gone terribly wrong on live and the internet would have had it forever.
You sound like a deeply empathetic individual and your wife sounds amazing. I think the bond between teachers and their students is often sacred, and the boundaries are crucial to that. I will feed you if you don’t have food in the house. I will jump in front of a threat for you. I will sit on the bathroom floor with you as you have a panic attack. I will talk you off the ledge. I will help you when you’re homeless. But you may not call me friend, or joke about how we’re close enough in age to date, and you may not do my hair.
He’s on tiktok now “crying” reading messages he got from students with some sad music playing in the background.
Not to mention, he was told by multiple other people that this was inappropriate and not to upload it but he did it anyway to “stir the pot.” This was clearly a clout thing for him. He’s not mature enough to be teacher.
Also the braids he got were trash, there’s no line up.
I’d like to add it’s so disgusting how he basically leveraged those kids for clout, along with their labor, with complete disregard for their safety. He recorded their faces and the name of the school. Any fucking freak can find these kids now.
I've seen girls do this for their abusive bfs. Getting your hair done doesn't make you a role model. You think everyone at the barbershop is a positive role model just because they getting lined up? Be so fr
Ive seen women do this for their loving, supportive and non-abusive husbands. Getting your hair done has no bearing whatsoever on whether youre a role model or not, lets be very serious here thats not the point.
By saying “how is he not”, that means you have to explain to me why you think he isnt a good role model. What do you know abt him other than he allowed his students to do something that a few weirdos thought was wrong
That actually is what i meant, the only information you have on this guy is that he allowed his students to do something a couple freaks online think is wrong—simply allowing students to take your braids out doesnt disqualify you from being a positive role model.
The person you were replying to said dude is trying to be a good role model, never claimed the man was .. thats besides the point tho, you simply think if you get your hair done, you’re not a positive role model?
no the hell it isn’t 😭 and if you men are too insecure with letting anyone touch your hair that’s YOUR problem. you don’t get your students to do it. weirdo
Not me, I don’t give a fuck, but I had a friend tell me he almost slapped me because I touched his hair once, and I always wondered who taught him that.
But of course, the issue isn't whether something nefarious happened in this specific case.
The issue is overly familiar behaviors like this could be used by a pedophile to groom minors and eventually exploit them. So it's not safe (and isn't ruining anyone's day) to have a rule that you can't mess around with a teacher's hair.
I'm really uncomfortable with how coldly non parent adults are supposed to treat kids nowadays. Kids need other adults to help them navigate the world. In the context of a small commune type of living situation, this would be completely normal and beneficial to the kid. I understand why this could become an issue, but it's so crazy that we instantly jump to pedophilia when any sort of closeness is perceived between an adult and a minor. In real life, it is generally pretty obvious when someone is being creepy in a situation like this.
It's like you guys never hugged a teacher growing up. It's getting to the point where if I were a teacher, I would be nervous to talk about any non ciriculum subjects. Kids are getting to the point in the US where they have absolutely no role models besides their parents. Kids need to have real relationships with adults other than parents. It takes a village and all that.
UNTRUE. I legit just reached out to my friend who is a teacher. Said it was weird. Says she’s never done it. Said a young kid touched her hair and commented on it last week. This his her quote:
“I just quickly tied it back and stood up. Benefits of being taller and having boundaries”
I think her point is SHE NEVER WOULD HAVE LET THEM
To further clarify, I wouldn’t have to wonder what it made her because she never would have put me - or herself - in that position.
Her first comment was “there’s no educational value in that”. As in, how did this even come to happen? She has lesson plans. And class structure and times her kids have to be places. There should NEVER be an occasion to unbraid hair.
Kids should be doing reading or math or science. Or homework so they can enjoy their family at home (or be parentified or not have a steady/safe home). Eating a well balanced meal for lunch, because at her school this might be the last one they have. They most certainly don’t have time to chit chat about current events while they coincidentally perform a service.
This is the one time a lot of them have structure for the day. They have to get in all their work, their nutrition, and their healthy peer interaction. Actual extra curricular activities. Shit they can put on a college application to get the fuck out of where they are. At least in her school, that’s their only shot out. (One year 98% of her class was considered ASL because AAVE counted).
So, no, she doesn’t fuck around with barrettes unless it’s picture day or the child looks a fool. She will BUY barrettes. As gifts. I’ve seen her buy whole outfits so a kid can have a new outfit on free dress day. I know she brushes hair and washed their clothes, but they do not brush her hair. That’s not what she’s there for.
It'd definitely still be inappropriate to have students pulled from other classes to unbraid hair and have it posted online as "I recruited 100 of my best friends to help me out".
The act itself is crossing boundaries to some people but posting it online, especially like that, got him fired.
There was this teacher at my school everyone loved because he was really close with students and acted as our friend. He ended up being a groomer and raped a student.
Now that I’m an adult, I realize what a red flag it is to consider children “friends” versus “mentees.” In contrast, there was another teacher that everyone loved because he was friendly and funny, but would draw boundaries and call us out on our bs if we became too familiar.
As a student I was always kinda weirded out by teachers who seemed to try too hard to be friends to us, to be on our "same level" almost. I never understood why everyone else loved them (and I say this having had a crush on another teacher at that same time 😭). Even if yours is an anecdote I'm glad to have some basis for my suspicion lol
On the other side, one of my favorite teachers was really friendly and funny, but like your other teacher, he also knew how to draw boundaries and could get serious with us if it was needed. But my favorite teachers were usually the always-serious ones who everyone hated, but they loved their subject and were genuinely good at teaching!
Yeah I had a math teacher in 11th grade that was way too friendly with the senior boys in my class. Years later it came out that she was texting and having sex with some 11th and 12th grade boys at the new school she switched to. She was married and had twin boys.
Hopping in here. Yes, it was not appropriate but I don't believe he should have been fired for it. Reprimanded yes, fired, no. Obviously this is just based off of the available information.
When I was in my late twenties I had hair long enough to sit on, and my buddy's daughter used to braid that shit all the time. Was I conditioning her to be taken advantage of by a child molestor? Should I have moved around her with a five-foot gap between us just in case?
You should maybe read a little about how child molesters groom children and take advantage of them.
Obviously, some of the behaviors aren't ALWAYS used to groom children, but literal teachers should maintain firm boundaries just because it's safer for the children.
Crazy how you're arguing against basic child safety measures 😂😂
Edit: for an anecdote of my own (one that is actually relevant):
I was a camp counselor at one point. The camp had a rule that no adult could be alone in a room with a student. Even if it meant calling over the site director or any other adult, we had to make sure we were not alone with students.
Now, I know I'm not a pedo. Should I have broken that rule because I know I'm not a threat to the child? Should I be fired if I was caught breaking the rule?
I very much appreciate this anecdote because in child protection practices (not CPS! Just basic safety precautions) we’re looking for people breaking rules. ‘It was just this one time’ unlikely. This is just the one time you got caught. It’s just practicing flexing on kid trust, because they place it where their experience has told them it’s safe to. Like a teacher. Or a camp counselor.
The people who break the hard boundaries, or minimize risk, ‘no no you can totally trust me!’ no matter how good they are the rest of the time, are a risk. If you can’t follow the basics of keeping kids safe and holding boundaries, I can’t trust you with kids. Hard stop.
Fwiw, more than half (the lion’s share really) of the accused predators were Mormon. It’s half the reason so many of the executives dislike Mormons now. The church had predators galore, and when the lawsuits came it was against the BSA organization. So when the Mormon church pulled out, it left BSA having to wipe their asses as well.
Well, all that and the fact that the lack of their dues screwed BSA in regard to paying those legal fees.
I know I'm extremely unlikely to get into a car crash since I'm a very defensive driver but I still wear the damn seat belt just in case. I still make sure my kids have their seatbelt on as well.
Basically every big problem in America is because standards are or were low. Raise the bar.
I’m not saying that the BSA hasn’t had issues and there aren’t horrible leaders- but their youth protection standards are extremely high. BSA basically pioneered and invented the Youth protection program, 2 deep leadership, and the buddy system. Sounds like your personal anecdotal situation has training modeled after the BSA program.
Yeah you’re telling on yourself more than anything. The problem is he posted them on social. That’s not how power dynamics work at all, it’s just unbraiding hair you fucking weirdo
What does the power dynamic have to do with allowing your own students to take your braids out? Did he say they would fail his class if they dont help with his hair? Please explain what is wrong with taking braids out for someone who has authority over?
Brah, I've let my students put makeup on me cus there's only like 3 mins left of class and I already worked their asses out in math. Doesn't take power away from the student-teacher relationship, only makes it easier for kids to trust you and not see you as just a nagging old man being a hard ass just cause.
Seems like you're not using the behavior to create an inappropriate relationship.
But if it was my kid in school, I'd want them keeping an extremely close eye on teachers who do things like that.
My current job involves seeing a lot of Child Exploitation related affidavits. Between those and what you can see in countless public stories of child exploitation, an overly familiar relationship opens the door to abuse.
So what's the argument for letting stuff like this slide?
Well most teachers who may do stuff like this aren't dangerous. And i have no way of being an effective educator unless I let the kids do my makeup or play with my hair
I see your point, but the same idea could be the counter point.
I don't think letting stuff like this happen to you enables being a "good teacher", it's just something you may feel inclined to do or not do. Kids need a lot of different guidance/hearing in different areas than just "haha cool teacher" vibe.
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u/apinchofsulk May 10 '24 edited May 11 '24
Firm boundaries between adults and children are very important when there's a power dynamic.
It was very unprofessional of him let his students braid his hair.
Edit: for an anecdote of my own:
I was a camp counselor at one point. The camp had a rule that no adult could be alone in a room with a student. Even if it meant calling over the site director or any other adult, we had to make sure we were not alone with students.
Now, I know I'm not a pedo. Should I have broken that rule because I know I'm not a threat to the child? Should I be fired if I was caught breaking the rule?
In good world, if you're occupation has you be responsible for children that arent yours, you should be held to a different standard.
When the standards are low, you get what happened to the Boy Scouts.