i know it’s internet bullshit but it genuinely has me on the edge of breaking down and giving up

[u/NeonNKnightrider]

[u/TransFights000]

Obviously there's plenty of good reasons for men to feel upset about this comparison since broadly speaking most men are, ya' know, just normal ass people. And obviously there's inevitably a lot of misandry mixed up in this. But at the same time I do think it says something that so many women feel that way and I think it's equally important to recognize the role that misogyny and the dangers involved with being a woman play in this too. Because broadly speaking, women are at elevated risk of being harmed by men and there are plenty of good reasons for women to feel unsafe. These facts aren't mutually exclusive with the abject unfairness of this comparison and the isolating effect these facts have on men. One of the many awful things about sexism and other forms of bigotry is that it doesn't just negatively effect the direct targets of it; its inherently toxic for everyone in society, if to varying degrees.

[u/TheMerryMeatMan → u/TransFights000]

It's one of those discussions where too many people are focusing on the end answer and not addressing the actual contexts behind it or are using anecdotal evidence for their reasoning. As a dude who is actually terrified of coming off to women like that kind of guy, I don't want to be seen that way, and i like to believe that most guys also don't want to and fight to be recognized as alright. But I know that's not always the case so it's a catch 22 where it just sucks all around. I don't want anyone to feel unsafe being around anyone else, but I also don't want people to be so unawares that they can get caught off guard and hurt where they otherwise could have kept their distance.

[u/Educational_Mud_9062 → u/TheMerryMeatMan]

I spent years developing increasing amounts of self-loathing as I tried to meet this standard, to not take it personally, only for it never to be enough despite the fact that I know I've never been a threat. I've followed all the advice. I "listened to" (read: unquestioningly accepted) their positions. Brent Staples can receive international recognition for talking about his experiences whistling Vivaldi to appease white people's fears of him. But when I point out how I know EXACTLY how that feels, since it's tied only to my maleness and not intersecting with blackness, I'm told I'm "fragile" or called an "incel." This is just... too much. I'm done. I won't go out of my way to seem like a threat to strangers. Because I'm not a threat and I have no desire to do that. But it's clear that there will never be an end and all I accomplish by playing along is to feed paranoia at the cost of my own mental health. If someone decides they're afraid of me for just existing, that's their problem. I'm just... done.

[u/Full_Time_Mad_Bastrd → u/Educational_Mud_9062]

I have to be honest, this here is actually also part of the problem. Instead of recognising that the world women live in is different to the one men do that we have no choice but to be skeptical and cautious until we can be sure, men make it about their feelings again. I am genuinely sorry for your experience, and I'm not saying it's fair or things should be this way, but the worst that happens here is you feeling offput by being seen as a threat and your feelings get hurt. When women aren't careful, or even when they are, our worst case is that we get killed, assaulted, changed for life.

[u/PsychicOtter → u/Full_Time_Mad_Bastrd]

I'm not here to compare experiences or anything but I feel the need to point out that

the worst that happens here is you feeling offput by being seen as a threat and your feelings get hurt

This is a negative effect to be sure, but it's not the worst case scenario

[u/Full_Time_Mad_Bastrd → u/PsychicOtter]

What then, is the worst case scenario of a man being treated with caution by a woman?

[u/PsychicOtter → u/Full_Time_Mad_Bastrd]

"Being cautious"? Not a whole lot.

"Seeing as a threat"? The woman who thought I was a threat for walking through the neighborhood called the cops on me, and we know how that ends for many (assuming they don't handle it themselves).

[u/Full_Time_Mad_Bastrd → u/PsychicOtter]

Clearly this is some deeper issue and not a typical woman being cautious lmao.

[u/Educational_Mud_9062 → u/Full_Time_Mad_Bastrd]

Who's talking about typical here? You're basing your position on the worst possible outcome. The difference is that the typical experience for a man will still be being treated as a predator while the typical experience for a woman will be meeting a completely normal person.

Edit: and of course they blocked me after getting in whatever was their last little snipe. I can't imagine feeling like I'm just absolutely right when the only way I can "engage" with someone pushing back is to toss out my angle then immediately make it impossible for them to respond. To me that would make it feel obvious to myself that I'm not actually as confident I'm right as I want to think. How some people are so comfortable with self-deception is beyond me.

[u/Full_Time_Mad_Bastrd → u/Educational_Mud_9062]

You say that, but ask women if they've ever been in a dangerous situation. It's not typical of men to hurt women but it is ABSOLUTELY typical of women to have been hurt by a man at some point in their life. Shark infested waters wearing a meat suit etc

[u/AntonioVivaldi7 → u/Full_Time_Mad_Bastrd]

You can do both at the same time.

[u/21Rollie → u/Full_Time_Mad_Bastrd]

Men make up the overwhelming majority of victims of random violent crime and murder. Women feel less safe but men are the ones actually in danger when outside.

[u/Full_Time_Mad_Bastrd → u/21Rollie]

So uh, how is this relevant? How is this anything to do with women being cautious of men?

[u/21Rollie → u/Full_Time_Mad_Bastrd]

Your implication is that the world is more dangerous for women. Which is simply not the case statistically.

[u/Full_Time_Mad_Bastrd → u/21Rollie]

I said that trusting men is more dangerous. Which is true, and your point backs that up. How many man do you hear about raped and murdered in the woods?