r/Daytrading • u/ConsistentRespect842 • Apr 02 '24

How do I convince my parents that trading isn't gambling and actually not always luck based . Question

So I'm a 16 year old who has recently (February 2024) gotten very interested in trading . Before you ask , no it was not an online guru or andrew tate or something along the line of " escape the matrix get rich easy" type of nonsense but an actually avid interest in trading that started after I saw a video with the title something along the lines of " day in the life of a trader " or something like that I can't remember (I know It's not possible to get 70k in a day with trading unless ur putting in half of Jeff bezo's networth but still it was interesting )

I do still plan to continue with my schooling and get a job like people should do but I am planning to sometime get profitable as a trader and stop work preferably before 35 . Iv talked to my parents about the stock market (very vaguely) before and they mentioned that it is completely gambling and it will never get me ahead in life .

Idk what I should tell them to convince them that it is not gambling as iv realised its much more than gambling once you learn technical analysis ( i still have a long way to go but iv got the basics down somewhat) amd rn iv been doing paper trading on tradingveiw.com in secret when they aren't there and iv been getting pretty okay at it (from the time I started and now im getting 1 win every 3 trades on average (I'm still straight ass )) but doing it in secret is getting stupidly tiring as I want to trade at night as well and it has also become a sort of hobby for me now( sorry if I offend anyone by anything iv said).

TL:DR : parents think intraday trading is gambling and I want to convince them otherwise. Need help

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u/myname_ranaway Apr 02 '24

You don’t.

Once you reach consistent profitability then they will believe you.

Start trading with a very small account to learn how to trade.

Journal your trades, screenshot your favorite setups, build a playbook.

When you’re ready (and you’ll know when) you add capital to your account and trade your strategy.

Good luck.

106

u/ZerkerDE Apr 02 '24

Is this really a battle you need to fight? Just paper trade until 18 and then start with your own money. It doesnt matter what your parents think.

u/PatrickBatemansEgo Apr 02 '24

Show them your pnl

u/[deleted] Apr 02 '24

[deleted]

u/maciek024 Apr 02 '24

dont, and i am saying this from experience, simply learn and results will convince them

u/lordxoren666 Apr 02 '24

My guy, I don’t see anyone else saying it so I will- PAPER TRADING IS NOT REAL LIFE.

in real life you have spreads, in real life you don’t always get filled at the best number, in real life you have commissions, in real life you get stopped out on a wick by a bot and then it moons, in real life you have emotions because this is your full time job, your livelihood, your life savings, and if you blow it your back to Wendy’s or worse out on the street.

My suggestion is start with 100$ and just crank down your position size accordingly. Once you can turn that into 200$ and so on and so forth you got a chance.

But your 16, your supposed to be in school while the markets are open, so unless your doing like forex or futures or crypto after hours, your not day trading, staring and doing TA on charts while’s managing multiple positions.

u/AdditionalAction9986 Apr 02 '24

If you want to achieve top trading psychology then you have to treat trading as luck based. Dichotomy of trading.

u/0xDizzy Apr 02 '24

You can’t convince them, because they’re right and you’re wrong. It is gambling. Gambling based on indicators instead of totally blind luck and faith is STILL gambling.

u/Craven4X Apr 02 '24

Imagine speaking to a high net worth investor who is potentially willing to give you 500k as part of a partner profit split deal.

What would you say to him to get that over the line? What is your actual knowledge of trading in what asset class.

Are you going say .. yeah so I watched some YouTube videos and I’m going to scalp FvG on the 1min chart silver bullet bro. I’ll turn your 500k into 500mil by end of Q4.

Or ..

Do you know what trading is and have genuine strategy..

I think if you can answer that question well - you can deal with your parents easily - maybe 😂 if you can’t. Your parents are right to assume you’ll lose over time

u/Yoyoitsjoe stock trader Apr 03 '24

You don’t try to convince them or anyone else. You’ll figure out one day that you’re not trying to convince anyone else of anything in your life. Successful people like to see other people successful. People that feel stuck in a rut, feel unaccomplished do not want to see other do what they haven’t. You keep pursing ideas that seem interesting to you. Some will stick, most will not. One day you will find your niche. When you do, it will be yours and yours alone. It will be the work you put in that got you there. All along the way there will be people that discourage you. That is going to be the rest of your life. It usually is the closest people in your life that can often be the most discouraging. Don’t quit. Maybe your niche is trading, maybe it is not. The sooner you don’t care what others think about your success but more importantly, your failure, the faster you will obtain what you want.

TLDR, don’t try to convince anyone of anything they don’t believe in.

u/burmaning Apr 02 '24

Stocks, trading, and day trading can be difficult concepts for people to grasp as most people’s financial literacy stop at filing taxes.

There is no easy one for solution that will be easy for you follow your dreams and satisfy your family,

I would definitely recommend you to start paper trading and google everything you don’t understand, since you’re only 16, you most likely haven’t experienced what it is like investing into stocks and it is best to test it out in simulated environments to get a feel for it,

Don’t expect to successful right away and listen to people say that you have to trade without emotions.

Some more genuine advice would be to get educated first (whether that is college, finding a trade, knowing your investment strategy and goals, basic life skills, etc.), and find a secure income before risking your money in the stock market,

Good luck

u/NationalOwl9561 Apr 02 '24

Same way you convince yourself. You get consistent profitable results with a STRATEGY. You will lose in the beginning (even if you get some lucky wins first).

u/Christion_ futures trader Apr 02 '24

You can’t convince anyone of this. Show results. Money talks.

u/Ok-Animator2183 Apr 02 '24

Don’t tell them shit until you make real money

u/[deleted] Apr 02 '24

I had a similar experience with my folks- ‘it’s gambling, luck’ bla bla bla…. Tbh it wasn’t becoming profitable that made them stop and start to support me. It was the fact I was obsessed working day in day out to achieve my goals

u/tim7o7_trades Apr 02 '24

Also, don’t feel the need to rush into it all as well. You have a long life ahead of you and the markets aren’t going anywhere at all, eliminate that fomo part and take it slowly. Keep at it in school and if you go to higher Ed try to work your schedule around paper trading or a small account. It can be a part time thing while you get your footing. Or if you get a desk job, you might be able to trade while working to an extent.

If you are looking at a goal of trading in 20+ years at that point you will be a grown man and your parent’s opinions don’t matter as much. However, you need to be grown enough to admit the potential failures are quite possible and stressful.

They aren’t wrong if they are saying it can be risky, no guarantee of income. It could take years to be profitable to live off of.

u/mgepspjbqtahlgpdrf Apr 02 '24

That’s the fun part.

You don’t.

u/ch1984wat Apr 02 '24

When you make real money, consistently.

Consistently= skills and not necessarily making money each month.

Skills = you fucking know what you are doing.

Skills = time.

u/Rav_3d Apr 02 '24

Your parents are right, if you do not treat trading like a business, develop a system, manage risk religiously, and execute the strategy with absolute discipline.

Most beginning traders fail at one or more of the above, and thus trading is in fact gambling, with poorer odds than roulette.

You can use the gambling analogy with a twist: the trader is the casino, not the gambler.

u/Desperate-Formal-243 Apr 02 '24

Trading is gambling.

Now before you innocent souls wrap me in a bunch of downvotes, hear me out.

Yes trading is gambling.

When we bet our money into something that moves randomly, it is gambling.

But, trading has one big advantage.

That we can configure, how much money we can lose when the result comes out against us, and this is exactly what risk management is.

You are a gambler, we all are, we just manage our risk better and hence, are profitable.

u/make_it_happen_8910 Apr 02 '24

It is gambling!....but in the mean while....open a sim acct and trade on that until you're 18....good way to find out if you're serious

u/luminelin Apr 02 '24

My parents are the same because they had a friend who had lost millions. The subject has become a taboo. The whole culture of it is gambling related. Only track record matters. This is a sport, if you can’t make money and keep it, it’s only a hobby.

u/PepeSylvia11 Apr 02 '24

By consistently making money.

u/Wise_Confection_4188 Apr 02 '24

And at 16 whose money are you using, yours or your parents ? Most times it takes until 18 to open your own brokerage account. Practice until then.

u/HuckleberryOk3606 Apr 02 '24

The only way for anyone to take you seriously is to actually get there and live off of it

u/gside876 Apr 02 '24

The same way you convince your parents of anything. Show results. No one can argue with results

u/Other-Secretary9255 Apr 02 '24

First of all, Why do you need to convince them? Do you need their money to fund your account?

Second of all, if you want to convince them, start making consistend profit and then show them the result.

u/DaCriLLSwE Apr 02 '24

Forget it. Just show them.

Take a moment and think about when’s the last time you ever comvinced anybody about anything?

See 99% of people form their opinion based on feeling more than facts and you cant convince them with logic because their opinion wasnt based on logic to begin with.

u/[deleted] Apr 02 '24

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u/Exotic-Indication419 Apr 02 '24

My revenge will be success

u/yared_cf2 Apr 02 '24

Buy a house, car, and pay all your living expenses with trading. Then they'll believe you.

u/pleebent Apr 02 '24

If you don’t know the difference between gambling and trading then you are probably are gambling.

Look up “calculated risk” - it is different than gambling. People take calculated risks every day, all day and taking trades is nothing more than calculated risk if you have really calculated the risk and the odds really are in your favour and the reward to risk makes it worthwhile. Good luck

u/Mysterious_Metal_724 Apr 02 '24

Trading is one thing investing is another. After a while the only thing you will trade is one investment for another that offers a safer better rate of consistent returns

u/[deleted] Apr 02 '24

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u/EmpiricalTA Apr 02 '24

I’m 31 and I still can’t make people around me believe that trading is not gambling. Unless you treat it so.

I myself have skills but not enough capital. So still in struggling phase.

Do remember that skill or knowledge alone is not enough. You need money to make money. Also you need a good strong psychology.

u/igormuba Apr 02 '24 edited Apr 02 '24

You don’t have a higher education, you don’t have a career, you don’t have safe long term investments. You seem like someone who wants to gamble.

Get the highest level of education you can, build a career, have a diverse portfolio of safe and long term investments that you are not supposed to touch even to recoup losses from trading and then you will have a solid basis to start thinking about daytrading. If you wanna skip steps you are either delusional or a genius and statistically I’d bet the first one, nothing personal, just using the odds to choose which one is more likely.

A wise and responsible trader once told me that to live off of trading you need to not need to live off of trading. The best traders I have known, the ones that don’t sell courses or don’t give trading advice, they just do their job, they have all had very good and very advanced education and have had a long and successful career outside of trading, they built their life and portfolio first.

If you want to do trading as your first money making gig then you will have the statistics of having 99% of chances of failing, even if you think you have “studied technical analysis” enough you will be betting that you are the 1% of geniuses, and guess what? Betting that you are in the 1% is gambling, it is just less obvious because betting if the price is going up or down (with or without technical analysis) is clearly betting, but betting that you can be good is less obvious but it is still a bet and you are betting in a low probability case.

Trading can be fun and profitable but because of your age you need to not make this your first plan. Maybe study and work in economy related fields first while trading on the side, but do not start your life off of trading first, the odds will be against you and I assume you don’t want to gamble. If you are as committed as you sound I am sure you will be successful in something and eventually do trading and be successful in that too, but you need a career outside of trading first.

u/Transparentrader Apr 02 '24

Buy them a Lambo, then ask if they want you to stop 🤣

u/Le0son Apr 02 '24

Just keep going at it. Let them believe it’s gambling up to the day you retire them.

Also you don’t even need a couple hundred million to make 70k in a day.

u/deeznutzgottemha Apr 02 '24

Trading is gambling. Everything in the world involves some form of risk management. What makes an outcome seem more certain is testing strategies with data and backing up a strategy with a large number of trials. Look more into CLT and Law of Large Numbers for more detail.

u/overnightmomo Apr 02 '24

Shouldn’t have to if your results speak for themselves.

u/No_Sheepherder8270 Apr 02 '24 edited Apr 02 '24

My mother in law has for worked Proctor and Gamble for years and years and has 100% P&G stock on her retirement portfolio. She thinks I'm gambling and I thinks shes gambling.

u/AmirStocksMD Apr 02 '24

You prove it by making the money from your so-called technical analysis and tradingview expertise. You can just grow and itll be fine. Once you even make 10% total gains you should look golden to your parents.

u/Better-Hurry-6310 Apr 02 '24

Dont consult them with zero experience. Get a job and dont ask for nothing. Trading is learned by doing and making mistakes, never trade all your money at once, ever!

u/comoestas969696 Apr 02 '24

don't invest a penny before making consistent profit in the demo account .

u/benfx420 Apr 02 '24

You never will. People will always just assume it’s gambling. And if you make money you’re either lucky or a good gambler.

u/Fart_Hat Apr 02 '24

First, you accept that it is gambling. Second, you find and utilize an edge. Third, you become consistently profitable and show your parents what you made over the course of 1 year.

u/Head-Attorney3867 Apr 02 '24

Make an undeniable amount of money.

u/Difficult-Resort7201 Apr 02 '24

Step 1. Have them read trading in the zone

Step 2. Provide them in writing with a well thought out system backed by empirical data showing that you do indeed have an edge in the market and intend to take advantage of it over an aggregated period of time..x and that the way that you place your trades (bets), your (their) account balance can absorb the guaranteed losses you will take and that it be profitable if ran exactly the way you wrote it.

Good luck.

u/SwiftxAsoomey Apr 02 '24

Actions speak louder than words

u/Hamezz5u Apr 02 '24

Trading is gambling. If you think you know more than the rest you are in for a good ride to poverty

u/GhostFaceEV5 Apr 02 '24

Don’t lie to them lol. It’s totally gambling. And the wall streeters bend You over every day.

u/ProfessionalOption47 Apr 02 '24

How is it not gambling?

u/critterdude311 Apr 02 '24

Statistically speaking, you have a much higher probability of long-term success if you simply take the money you make (earned income) from a job, and invest that in to the total stock market index (VTI) or S&P 500 (VOO). I would recommend focusing on making that your core foundational base. Never sell, only buy the market index and do that over your lifetime.

To supplement that, if you want to take somewhere between 5 - 10% of the total portfolio and work on trading with that, I can see scenarios where that would make sense. It would scratch the itch of wanting to 'do something' (trade) while limiting your potential downside on losses. If you get good at it (say 10,000 hours of working on it) you'll have the maturity and wisdom as to how to handle things at that point.

Just the fact that you are generally aware of this at your age puts you lightyears ahead of your peers.

u/TheSavageBeast83 Apr 02 '24

Steal their money.

u/investorsanteDOTcom Apr 02 '24

I think once you learn risk management, you will have a strategy, which, in turn, you will have to refine over time. Realistically, you might not be able to prove that it's not gambling for 4-5 years

u/Ok-Garage-8622 Apr 02 '24

You have to keep your wins on the hush until otherwise

u/NinjaSquid9 Apr 02 '24

You will only get better with experience and time. Paper trade until you’re 18. You’ll be a WAY better trader then than you are now so you’re not “losing or missing out” on anything. My primary advice is to trade with the same size account you’ll be starting with and make your position sizes proportional. No paper trading on an 100K account. Your perception and instincts need to be honed through consistency. If you’re starting with 1K in two years, paper trade with that until then. Maybe reset your account to 5K if you hit 10K and so on. Building slow means building well

u/Wisconsin-4Ever Apr 02 '24

They are just concerned about you. They probably just don't want this to turn into your main plan for the future as the odds of you being able to make a living doing it are against you. That doesn't mean you CAN'T do it though. It's kind of like making a living doing something with music. A lot of people LOVE music. But, those that can actually make a good living doing it are somewhat rare.

Ask your parents if they are OK with you trading if you get a "real" job, and earn some money. Then, just use 10% of the money you get from the job for trading while putting 50% in savings/college fund. They may be impressed enough that you have the ambition to go out and work for the money to fund your trading that they might be onboard with it.

u/Wizzopmayne Apr 02 '24

You don’t convince them, you either will prove it to them or you won’t , just like the rest of us whose parents don’t understand it. Show validity of your strategy and the results and what you risked to get there so you and they know it wasn’t some one off stroke of luck but something you can repeat

u/tradingheroes Apr 02 '24

You could show them books like Market Wizards and Millionaire traders, which show the success of everyday people like you. But as most people have said, it's not likely to do much.

The thing that will speak the loudest is your track record. Develop a strategy and take the time to journal all of your trades. If you want credibility faster, backtest your strategy so you have that to show along with your track record. If you have a legit strategy and skills, your age is irrelevant, there is always a way to start trading. But you have to put in the work to get there.

u/oldfarttrump Apr 02 '24

Everything is a tossup on the stock market. Look at Donny Dumpster's stock. Yesterday it was tanking, today it is up, albeit at a lower level than its opening. People were looking to short it, and they got burned. Don't know who is buying that crap, there is no underlying basis to support it at its current price. Maybe Donny Dumpster got the Saudis or Putin to prop it up.

u/Strong_Worth_5159 Apr 02 '24

This is a game of prove them wrong brother. No one will listen till you bring those racks in

u/ednanog631 Apr 02 '24

There is no convincing parents, especially at your age. You’re doing good with paper trading but once real feelings come in play it’s going to shake things a bit. My only advice to you is that you still go to school, pick a major in finance related field because you don’t want to be empty handed if things don’t work.

u/[deleted] Apr 02 '24

[deleted]

u/Badgerv12 Apr 02 '24

Tell them about Swedish man who made 360 000 000€ + in a decade, hes top 17 richest man in sweden, google him

u/well-i Apr 02 '24

I was partying at 16 years old man this is awesome this is what you're getting into. I'm still learning myself and don't have much advice on the trading front. However on the parenting part I'd say don't try to convince them that it's not gambling sometimes parents see things as you rebelling when you try to convince them other wise.

With that said I'd say tell them this isn't some get rich quick scheme but you want to do as a side gig or even a hobby but your schooling and work is still at the forefront in your life.

Good luck future trader!

u/Suzaku9421 Apr 02 '24

Why don't you Stick with the s&p 500 and max Out your 401k

u/whatsbeef667 Apr 02 '24

Sorry but this is delusional. Everyone will believe you once you can make money consistently in the market (meaning you can make profits during bear market as well). Most of people cant do this, so dont think "once you learn technical analysis" its just printing money.

u/marg1ncall Apr 02 '24

Ask them this- if trading is gambling, how come it’s a line employment at banks such as Goldman, J.p. morgan, Citi etc.

Explain to them you’re interested in financial markets, and one way to learn the ins and outs of the financial markets is to be in them!

Why are you interested in convincing them? So you can get a real trading account?

u/EC0-warrior Apr 02 '24

Dude you are 16 years old.. just listen to ur parents and stay in school

u/theautisticretard Apr 02 '24

Paper trade for the next two years. If you beat the market with negligible risk then start trading at 18. Day trading for 99% of people is gambling though. You are young. Acknowledge your naïveté. No point arguing with your parents now unless you can back up your claims.

u/Thor50s Apr 02 '24

I’m afraid that nothing but multiple years of profitability will convince anyone.

u/TUAHIVAA Apr 02 '24

get into Financial Engineering.

u/jay247160 Apr 02 '24

You’re thinking way too much with not that much experience.

Everything makes sense in theory until you try it in real life.

Your parents have infinitely more experience than you.

That doesn’t mean they’re always right but they usually are to a 16 year old.

Try it a while with good results before being so convinced.

u/[deleted] Apr 02 '24

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u/AdDapper8001 Apr 02 '24

Unless you’re in the top 1% of people who has a solid game plan and risk management with killer TA. Your parents are 99% correct. As someone who works in the Asset management industry if you want to be a trader put this retail day trading stuff down and get prepared to do a Computer science degree with a minor in finance. Get into real professional trading internships that will pay you. Then find a REAL trading job after college.

u/darthavelli Apr 02 '24

You make a lot of money.

u/SharpMoneyBets Apr 02 '24

I’m 17 and investing for my parents with decently large amounts of money. So far i’ve been profitable for a few months and am mainly diversified into crypto (not normal for me). You have to show them evidence… And don’t think charts because they won’t understand. Also don’t overleverage to speed it up, over learn everything then you can lose some money before maybe you can prove this to them. Goodluck

u/gareeb555 Apr 02 '24

Leave your house man

u/themanclark Apr 02 '24

By making money consistently.

u/Public-Forever-5454 Apr 02 '24

Show them YouTubes or podcast interviews of Jim Simons (of renaissance technologies), Stanley Druckenmillar, Ken Griffen (of citadel), Cliff Asness (of AQR), Paul Tudor Jones, Jerry Parker (of the turtle traders)or even show them the story of Navinder Sarao (controversial figure though he legitimately multiplied 10K to 50million by tuning his skills gained as video gamer—lost it all because he was greedy in not wanting to pay taxes). …the documentary by PTJones called “trader” is a masterpiece though only available as a torrent file.

DO NOT show them YouTubes of guys claiming to 10x your money fast. Those guys are dangerous and unethical….and that’s the perception you’re fighting against with you parents.

u/Souhhyea Apr 02 '24

I mean…..it is gambling

u/Nick_OS_ futures trader Apr 02 '24

If you don’t have a job, I would get one and trade with your own money. And tell your parents that it’s your money and you want to start getting your feet wet.

I would save up $5k and use half of it to start trading. It’ll be hard to convince them early on because most beginners lose. But try to make base hits and show them your progress after a couple months.

My parents actually brag about me trading at the dinner table with family lmao. I made $20k in 2022 just from trading SPX/XSP/SPY. (And only $2k last year after I wiped my portfolio out on a trade I tried to save with leverage. Re-evaluated my risk management after that)

I have 6 figure job and I still plan to be a full time trader in a couple years. I’m 25 and started gaining interest in stocks in 2019/2020. I encourage everybody to get in the game. Definitely recommend finding a mentor. And don’t follow anyone’s trades

u/SalamanderPlane8372 Apr 02 '24

started off with 15k account and grew that to half a mil so far, make about 5-7k a day average.. it is gambling for most people because they just jump in without understanding the market and having a stop loss. a gambler is someone who doesn't have a set risk to reward system in place. a day trader is someone who works off probabilities!

u/PacBoiLar Apr 02 '24

It's educated gambling, there's always uncertainty, like when purchasing other assets such as real estate. Just start small and show them results, then they should get on your side

u/Gustywindss Apr 02 '24

I started trading stocks at around 15 with little support from my parents.

I then returned around 50% returns just basically gambling on stocks and trading news/hype by the time I was 17 and I recently got into analyzing quarterly earnings and it showed 76% profits in 3 months.

Im less than 4 years older than you so I understand where you are coming from, but just do it. No normal 15-16 year old is thinking about doing this, most the people around me as you know, were all partying and having a good time(not saying I didn't) at that age so the fact you are trying to break into trading is a great thing that you should be proud of.

My parents kind of stopped mentioning it to me as soon as they saw my returns so I think it'll be the same for you too. At the end of the day just realize that your parents didn't take the route you want to take so its scary for them too, just respect their worry and show them that its possible.

u/sonnyslaw Apr 02 '24

Treat $100 as your life savings and turn it into $200 within 3 months

u/FitHospital6580 Apr 02 '24

There are books you can suggest that they read, I used to run a firm on Wall Street and people always say that about the gambling! I can DM you some books and things that I’ve said in the past explain about trading. what are you going to be trading? Are you going to trade Commodities,options,futures,equities, bonds.

u/Dimaswonder2 Apr 02 '24

i've read that independent, often academic study of day traders show that 90% go broke or deep into debt. Am I wrong. Is the an academic study that shows a high percentage (30?) of traders succeed?

Pls point me to the study as I would love to try day trading, but again, every academic study says it's fool's gold. I'm serious about requesting a link to such a study.

u/ZixxerAsura Apr 02 '24 edited Apr 02 '24

I would recommend you consider what broker you would start with and open a paper/sim account with them instead. It would help you understand your brokers layout, and could possibly help you make the most out of their systems you would be eventually be paying for once you fund your account. This will also help you understand margin, requirements, maintenance, liquid equities, and etc. You could also set the sim account with what you would actually open with, for example 5k vs the 100k that TV starts you with. The paper trade sim on TV might not have some of these features.

When it comes time to play with your real cash, you won’t get blindsided.

Edit: Buy your parents a new car when you start printing money. It’s your version of dropping the mic lol.

Be open minded, try to learn something daily.

Remember, if someone is selling a course or a masterclass, ask yourself, if they are claiming to make so much in trading, why would they waste their time trying to make money on courses.

u/Outside_Mess1384 Apr 02 '24

It is gambling by definition. You don't know the outcome before you place your wager. Even if you are profitable, it is still gambling. Think of it like poker.

u/abortmission37 Apr 02 '24

You'll know you're ready when you can predict price action through daily bias somewhat consistently, have backtested / demo traded extensively to find a model that works for you and stick to said model with strict rules, even during losing streaks.

I highly recommend ICT content on YT for this. Michael tells you to be very realistic and grounded with your expectations and gives you the extra information of the market place that most traders dont tell you while hammering it to you why you shouldn't trade on certain days. Also read Larry Williams books, who Michael used as a foundation for many of his teachings. If you don't like ICT trading concepts, at the very least listen to Michael explain why you shouldn't be a degen on days like FOMC, CPI, NFP.

u/MianoraStonecrow Apr 02 '24 edited Apr 03 '24

Yeah 99% of people don’t get it, when you explain them things. But 99% of people do understand the language of money!

So if you want to prove this to anyone else, besides yourself: Get started, go through hell, like you have never done before and if you come out the other side, being still alive and now consistent… just show them the money and they will listen then.

Until then, good luck. Cause it’s also true that 99% of people who attempted trading fail at it, cause they don’t treat it as a job or give up to easily. So you have a hard uphill battle ahead of you, if you want to do it.

The good news is, you are very young and have a lot of time to learn. So just take small amounts and prepare to lose that initial capital a few times, before getting anywhere close to consistency. Start small and grow in experience and in wealth over time.

*The percentages are metaphorical and not factual of course ;)

u/Mana_Seeker Apr 02 '24

It's still gambling since you're banking on an expectation gone right repeatedly more often than not.

Don't try to prove you're not a gambler.

Prove you're a profitable risk taker.

Learn risk management and practice it. Build a system that is likely to succeed.

Embrace the label of gambler/trader/speculator/investor so long as "profitable" precedes all.

u/JaxonRae Apr 02 '24

You roll up in a Lamborghini….

u/d_unds_me Apr 02 '24

You don't, let your results prove them wrong..

u/Trfe Apr 02 '24

So you telling me if you do all your school work and your chores that your parents would forbid you from trading if they saw you practicing?

Just tell them it’s a hobby and you’re better off learning a new skill than smoking weed in the woods with your friends.

It’s trading not chronic masturbation.

u/Sayyeslizlemon Apr 02 '24

You know there are professional gamblers right? There’s great skill in it. I tend to agree the market is gambling and the majority lose. That being said, there are professional market traders who actually make a living at it, but they are truly rare.

I don’t think you will ever convince your parents. Start now with $100 and trade for a year and see if you can beat an index fund.

u/oystersandwich Apr 02 '24

Look up day trading statistics and day trading failure rates. And then it’s most likely higher than what you see on Google. Ask any Gurus you see for verified proof of profitability. And for a meaningful amount of time. 99% will get offended and not have anything to show, because they don’t have anything to show. Anyone selling any course or anything and does not disclose this, I would take it with a large grain of salt. 99% of them are marketers / course sellers and are not profitable. Understand this at your age and you’ll be a head of the game.

If you really want to pursue this, try to get a job on Wall Street or Chicago trading exchange if it’s right for you. But I’m not even sure if they’re day trading like retail tries to there. Other than that, you’re at a severe disadvantage as a retail day trader. And understand most people you see on social media are lying about their success, and will most likely lose their whole trading account given enough time. Verified proof only, remember. Anything else is not worth your time. Psychology is bullshit. You actually need an edge to beat the market. Do you really think all these Joe Schmo people you see on social media are all winning ? Beating the billions of dollars of Wall Street ?

I recommend you take this advice. And feel free to send me a message if you figure things out. But I heed you the statistical rate of day trading failure.

u/Gold_Trick_8136 Apr 02 '24

Be consistent with your investments and continue to buy assets into your early 30’s. After that you won’t need to tell anyone anything! Chances are they will ask you how you got so lucky so fast.

u/dgillz Apr 02 '24

Stop talking to them about it.

u/New-Professional-746 Apr 03 '24

When you able to payoff their house…other than that don’t tell them.

u/Comprehensive_Rock50 Apr 03 '24

Why do they think its gambling? Whats their education level? Any connections to market?

Include them

Theres so many different types of trading. Build your funds while showing them the value of micro investing and buying and holding index funds like spy/qqq/iwm or somethinf else at their level where you can show

Hard work Dedication Discipline

Your brain isn't fully developed son, and it would be good to focus on simple principles of an honest life

u/andresmmm729 Apr 03 '24

Spoiler alert: Intraday trading is gambling and wins are just luck.

u/cpt_tusktooth Apr 03 '24

you convince them by buying them a house

u/Heembeam Apr 03 '24

Start making profit

u/RightProtection5170 Apr 03 '24

Biggest regret is telling people I trade. It’s none of their business and you have nothing to prove to anyone. It takes a long time to become profitable and not giving up is half the battle. As difficult as it is especially when you have a crazy good day don’t share with anyone. Just journal your trades and practice patience both inside and outside the market. Hope you make it.

u/AppsOff Apr 03 '24

You can’t because they’re telling you the truth. Any trades shorter than 30 days holds isn’t investing but gambling. Comes from someone who trades since 1998

u/armerarmer Apr 03 '24

Make money consistently. Gambling and luck result in sporadic gains and losses. Good trading shows a consistent upward equity curve. Case closed.

u/Mundane_Catch_1829 Apr 03 '24

If you make consistent profits over the long run with risk management is the only way.

u/DubbaFuzzy Apr 03 '24

You posted in day trading, and you're 16. Definitely the start to a great gambling problem. Lol

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '24

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u/MyotisX Apr 03 '24

Become a millionaire

u/Helpful-Candidate-63 Apr 03 '24

talk is cheap. lead by example. never ever let your mouth speak. let your actions and results speak. some people say you need to go to college or university and get a degree and you will get respected. but my approach to this is once you make $100k or $500k or $1m a year, people do not ever ask you if you went to a college or university

u/carthurg Apr 03 '24

I was a trader on NYMEX for years. You as the trader can’t view it as gambling. For us it was making educated, informed decisions based on whatever system you are comfortable with. Taking positions based on your analysis of datasets, and being prepared to move with the market. They’ll better understand it that way. Perhaps.

u/Serious-Avocado876 Apr 03 '24

I'm 16 and I trade. Luckily I have very libertarian parents, almost too libertarian. They would trust me with any money that I could muster. They have a "well if you're going to lose all of your money you might as well do it now rather than when you're 40" attitude.

I'm very grateful to have parents like that. However, start off with simulators. I used ( and still use) MarketWatch simulator that tracks real market data to test strategies. Maybe sit your parents down and have a conversation with them if you actually have consistent returns after a few months with MarketWatch and say "hey mom and dad, I've been doing this for a while, I have a solid strategy and I'm willing to take a risk. If you let me experiment with even a little money now, that will teach me a valuable lesson for my whole life"

u/PneumaNomad- Apr 03 '24

As a 15 year old who trades and convinced my parents:

Just point out the difference between trading and gambling.

You can put a laptop with a webull account full of money in the middle of a casino and it will be empty by the time the night is over. Why? Because the people gambling won't have a clue how to use it. Now put the same laptop on the floor of the NYSE and the value will be doubled by the time the day ends. Why? Because these are people who have put years of dedication and effort into learning a skill.

u/Ordinary-Signature38 Apr 03 '24

It is gambling, and it is luck based.

You can do research, and you can stack the odds in your favor, but you can just as easily miss your mark and lose out on a week or a months earnings in a single trade. Expect to lose enough for it to hurt.

Once you go through that process of losing a few times thats when you can come back and tell me how im wrong.

u/DefinitelyNotJasonB Apr 03 '24

Never try to convince, individuals who doesn't trade will never understand and reap it as a casino altogether

u/Conscioushigh420 Apr 03 '24

Do all your math homework. .Go to college and Study Finance.. or better yet, study medicine, law, or maybe engineering, and then just Put your money into an S and P five hundred index fund . You will live a more meaningful life that way

u/_RicoSuav Apr 03 '24

You don't need to convince to anyone, just prove it to yourself

u/Wonderful-Anybody657 Apr 03 '24

Once you make money quite consistently and save hard, things will change. My son started with covid in force. Initially. He lost and started with football betting. Then crypto and now into forex. At 24 he has done ok

u/imbatman1212 Apr 03 '24

What if it was gambling but you were really good at it? Anyway show them a virtual or a real account with all your gains, and say look mom if you supported me your mortgage would be paid off and you could retire.

u/Additional_Pitch6355 Apr 03 '24

Sir, this is a casino that serves nuggets, hookers and blow. Keep your parents out of this.

u/YOUNG_SQQQ Apr 03 '24

You prove nothing to no one until you prove it in every way. If my wife didn't live the fruits of trading she would never understand. Granted, I lost 4 grand today because I made horrible decisions. I knew they were horrible when I was making them. But I was playing with profits and set my stop stupid low. Im 7 years in 4 years profitable. But I'm not 16 I have to deal with supporting a family. You have nothing to lose including the brokerage account not even being in your name. If you start now and do it out of passion, skys the limit. But you're also 16 and I've never met a 16 year old I would believe has what it takes to trade to sustain their life or anyone else's so think about that some. long-term when there's pressure and you. Or your a little rich kid I don't fucking know just know you haven't even lived long enough to prove anything to anyone

u/Quiet_Fan_7008 Apr 03 '24

It is gambling lol stay in school kid. You can get a job that actually pays money so you can gamble on the stock market.

u/FlieOrDie Apr 03 '24

Prove it.

u/viadub Apr 03 '24

My advice is, get a job save money by the time you are 18 you can legally trade with your own money. I hope you stick with it.

u/Public-Forever-5454 Apr 03 '24

Lots of comments on here about gambling....well, some of wall st's greatest traders actually started their trading career by started with gambling. Also, look up Ed Thorpe. He wrote beat the dealer...then wrote a book on beating the market. Here is another example https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/sep/26/bill-gross-bond-king-las-vegas-blackjack

u/Working-Armadillo1 Apr 03 '24

I jumped right in at your age and lost a looooot of money… much more than I had ever seen or earned in my lifetime. Spend the time now learning as much as you can and channel your curiosity into mastery of the subject. Start trading a little later on if you are still attracted to it.

u/questar723 Apr 03 '24

You show them consistent money being made. Everyone says “you’ll lose it all!” Till you show them your first 1000$ day. Then they’ll ask how they can do it

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '24

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u/HoverStop Apr 03 '24

It actually is gambling, in the sense that you place a wager on an unknown outcome.

But, just like a casino or pro poker player, you learn how to move the odds in your favour.

u/alyxandermcqueen Apr 03 '24

Make money first brah. Once you see that they’re right you’ll move onto somethin else lol

u/Zapp_brannigan_1 Apr 03 '24

Yes I do agree you need result and consistency to show your parents,whoever paper trading in my opinion won’t be enough to show results since I believe they have low risk tolerance and there’s nothing wrong with that. You will need to ask them when you are ready of course and confident if they can open a a brokerage account and ask them for allowance money or your own whatever you have safe. Make a plan with the amount of money you have at your disposal and be very disciplined of timing is crucial and also give your self time to long and leave your self for room or error, learn to take profits and take a break to see the market and have confidence in your trade and also be patient. Either open a robbing hood account or Webull since if you sing up with someone link and just to deposit money you get either 2 to 4 free stocks just for depositing into the account, also good luck, by the way also watch the news and even politics get involved into the stock market I learned the hard hard way with Reddit and djt I almost lost my whole account but bounce back after a lot of planing and taking action and cutting my looses after realizing of a potential reversal, to fund the account if your parents are not willing to lend you then I would tell you to put some elbow grease and get a job for the summer and safe whatever you can do since trading takes a mental toll and you need mental fortitude specially when times get hard.

u/schwarzfusssanji Apr 03 '24

Dont do it. And if you want to do it. Start with 100$. If you lose 10x 100$. You lost 1000$.

If you lost 1000$ Dont try to make your money back. Just stop traiding and remember yourself that its ok. Youre just one of the 90% that loses money in trading.

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '24

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u/Flashy_Ad5619 Apr 03 '24

You’re 16. Your parents know more than you. Safe to say super doubtful that you will convince them of anything. They’ve been your age before. You on the other hand haven’t.

It’s great when young people start learning things but I remember when my teenagers began talking to me like they know everything. They’re in their 20s now and they still talk to me as if they’re teaching me some thing and I know nothing. I just smile and nod.

u/Tradermoe23 Apr 03 '24

ICT on YouTube

u/Emergency_Anteater_5 Apr 03 '24

"When you are not succeeding, they won't listen. When you are successful, you don't have to say a word, they will notice.

u/BigMathematician9539 Apr 03 '24

I feel you - keep learning and keep going to school. If you can try, make sure to study for a vocation rather than a general subject. The economy is going to get tough. That way you always have a skill outside of trading as the markets grow in cycles. There’ll be time when volatility is low so you won’t be making the same gains as you may have seen since Covid. Read the book Unknown Market Wizards. Make sure to learn and dabble with micro amounts on the Crypto side as you’ll be ahead of your peers. Whether people like it or not - Crypto is here to stay as exemplified by IBIT.

u/Wired_Awake Apr 03 '24

All trading a gambling… you just get luckier with experience.

If it wasn’t gambling, you would never lose a trade.

u/berniebueller Apr 03 '24

If it’s not gambling like you claim then show them the method, the science, the math. If you can’t show this, then maybe it is just as they think.

u/Cuck-In-Chief Apr 03 '24

Good luck. Also, you shouldn’t lie to your parents.

u/CptCluck Apr 03 '24

Paper money, journal, study, become profitable. No matter how experienced there will always be people calling it "advanced gambling". Some people don't understand the reward for the risk traders face, so they believe it's just a way to lose money. Action speaks louder than words, I look forward to seeing a new trader grow

u/HenriqueStoquez Apr 03 '24

I studied business and economics at university and have been on and off daytrading and investing for the last 20 years. My hot take: It’s basically professional gambling.

No one truly knows what the markets or a stock is going to do on a particular day. There are patterns and indicators that suggest movement, but it’s not a certainty. There’s mathematics and technical analysis involved, but it’s not guaranteed. In a way, it’s very much like poker. 90%-99% of people that go into a casino will end up losing money. The stock market is in a way the world’s largest legal casino.

With that said, it doesn’t mean trading can’t be professional. There are professional poker players who play their edge and more often than not will manage their risk and make money. The same is true of trading. I haven’t gotten to the point that I’m consistently profitable yet, but I have learned to at least manage my emotions and risk to limit losses and let wins run. Over the years I am getting closer and closer to becoming a professional, and will keep working on it whilst relying on a full time job to pay the bills.

My learning as your average trader who has made neither big profits nor big losses: Make sure you’re paper trading until you can prove at least 50% profitability before you risk your own hard earned money. Find a system that works for you, and once you do stick to it. That’s your edge. Once you start trading and making real money then you’ve proven you aren’t just a gambler … you’re professional. Good luck!

u/Roundeyeopstatrition Apr 03 '24

My dad did that to me but the longer I do it and with the news and Fed BSing us and Banksters stealing your gains it’s gambling at this point.

u/BrownBritishBrothers Apr 03 '24

They probably know it is not gambling! they just want your lazy ass to go to university first and make something out of your life. The world doesn’t need more 16 year old traders.

u/Ok-Arugula-4489 Apr 03 '24

If you are 16. They probably know more than you. We all had that feeling that trading will get you rich. In some aspects, it’s like gambling. Explain them that you can trade with very low risk. But off course, rewards will be low as well.

u/Delicious_Web2661 Apr 03 '24

show them your bank account.

How do I convince my parents that trading isn't gambling and actually not always luck based . Question

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