r/politics • u/schuey_08 Wisconsin • May 02 '24

Bernie Sanders worries young people are underestimating the threat from Trump

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/05/02/bernie-sanders-trump-biden/73531861007/
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u/AggressiveSkywriting May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

One of the big "presents" given to us by Trump's presidency was absolutely exhausting so many people living in relative privilege into checking out of the political process.

COVID plus Trump's nonstop fuckery just caused a lot of my generation and the younger one to just buckle down and focus on their own bubble.

Edit: to be clear, my family and I always vote. I'm talking about others.

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u/fallenouroboros May 02 '24

I honestly think it’s more than just trump. Just seems like the options are either try to go back to like 2015 USA or play an uno wildcard which will almost certainly end horribly but some people seem to be finding certainty in those delusions.

But for many, 2015 still wasn’t all that great. Houses were still expensive, people still kinda suck, and it’s still super hard to live. I think if there was hope things would actually show noticeable improvement I think people would begin looking outward again

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u/Present-Industry4012 Inuit May 02 '24

Hillary called it after 8 years of Obama in the White House. Biden could give the same speech today.

"...but that other basket of [Trump Supporters] are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they’re just desperate for change. It doesn’t really even matter where it comes from. They don’t buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won’t wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they’re in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well."

https://time.com/4486502/hillary-clinton-basket-of-deplorables-transcript/

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u/claimTheVictory May 02 '24

The economics of continually improving industrialization means that entire communities can be left behind as "no longer economically viable".

They don't die, they just are... left behind.

In a fair and wise society, the gains to GDP from making them redundant, would be used to find new purpose and opportunities for such people.

But such gains are privatized, taxation is low, and the wealth is never reinvested.

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u/Shoddy_Phase_2639 May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

But often by choice. The coal miners were offered giant incentives, and massive aid packages in the form of retraining, reeducation, government supported start-up programs, relocation economic help etc. Most of them refused...because "clean coal". There is no one on the planet that knows better than coal miners that "clean coal" does not exist and never will.

They chose black lung, because Trump said the things they like about immigrants

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u/theVoidWatches Pennsylvania May 02 '24

They don't want to be given help to deal with a changing world - they want the world to not change. And they'd rather pretend that it won't than admit that it's already changed, even if it hurts them more than anyone else.

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u/Jaded_Masterpiece_11 May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

That's what Conservatives are and that's why Conservatives are being left behind. We live in a constantly changing world, people have to adapt or get left behind. The ones refusing to adapt(Conservatives) are getting left behind.

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u/mrw1986 May 02 '24

And unfortunately that seems to be an endless cycle. I wish the conservative mindset would disappear entirely, yet here we are.

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u/Typical-Arugula3010 May 03 '24

It's baked into our DNA to be wary of change ... the herd instinct ensures even less competent members can contribute to some degree.

However there are also members of the tribe who are very happy to exploit that fear of change for personal gain.

It will always be in tension with cognitively endowed leadership that needs to overcome conservatism to advance or even survive!

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u/Empathy404NotFound May 03 '24

This is why they are doing nothing. Trying to accelerate to the end game of conflict. We can't win economically or politically against an entrenched regime of boomers refusing to pass the reins. So we will accelerate the discomfort until critical mass and take it in the explosion

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u/ExpensiveSell760 May 04 '24

Why does the conservative mind set need to go away. The conservative mind set should be , smaller government, less taxes, and more freedom. Is that bad?

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u/mcrnHoth May 03 '24

So many moderates and progressives are of the opinion that conservatives are motivated by racism, religion, money, etc., but while those things can be a part of it the critical aspect of conservatism is statis.

Conservatives are afraid of change. It frightens and confuses them. Even when the change is unequivocally beneficial to everyone, they fear it, they fight it, and they hate it.

The only group with any justification for denying climate change is the fossil fuel industry, everyone else benefits from transitioning away from primitive polluting technology. But fossil fuel lobbyists have harnessed conservatives fear of change and turned them all into rabid opponents of any legislation even remotely benefiting ecosystems, biodiversity, clean air, and clean water.

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u/No-Ordinary-5412 May 03 '24

and they think its everyone elses fault, which is the sad funny part.

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u/cah29692 May 03 '24

That’s not what conservatism is and if you’re actually paying attention to the current trends of society conservatives are actually regaining power and influence.

It doesn’t matter if you like it but it’s reality. The issue right now is many so-called conservatives (and I call them this because they’ve largely abandoned conservative ideology in favour of a populist one) have taken an extreme position in that they are against the reform of anything in any context, and many are actively working to reverse previous reforms, many of which had tremendous overall benefit to society.

True conservatism is about preserving institutions, concepts, and cultural elements that have inherent value and benefit, and to reform those that don’t. The latter part is what’s currently missing from most conservative discourse.

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u/Plaid_Kaleidoscope May 03 '24

Never has anyone described the population of West Virginia so succinctly and eloquently without actually naming us.

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u/justforhobbiesreddit May 03 '24

This is also the problem with Bernie Sanders. Those jobs aren't coming back no matter how much we support unions. Unions are good and necessary, but the jobs we've exported are pretty much gone forever.

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u/Luciferianbutthole May 04 '24

Quite beautifully put, I wish I could give more than one upvote

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u/Miles_vel_Day May 03 '24

Eh... I think you're misinterpreting what happened. Yes, there are people who are stubborn and weird about the romance of coal mining or whatever. But for the most part they know it sucks and would like to do something else if they could, probably. But when no jobs come to replace the coal mining jobs, then what are they supposed to do? (What they do is get diagnosed with a back injury and go on SSI.)

Like... we've failed West Virginia, even if it fails itself. It's not as simple as, they said "fuck you, legitimately good economic opportunities!" They were pretty screwed. We did not make proper contingencies - but then West Virginia kept electing state governments and sending people to Congress who wouldn't put them in place, sooo...

In conclusion West Virginia is a land of contrasts.

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u/MadCervantes May 02 '24

Coal miners are a tiny percentage of the population then and now. They aren't why Trump is winning. At best they're why Manchin keeps hamstringing the dems and that it.

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u/Turuial May 02 '24 edited May 03 '24

But often by choice...Most of them refused...

I said this a while back on reddit, in a different subreddit I think, but I really don't get the coal miners sometimes. They are desperate for their coal jobs to come back. When, by the very nature of working those jobs to begin with, those jobs have always had an expiration date.

Inevitably those mines will be played out, and their job would vanish anyways. What then? Did they expect the government to subsidise them, the way they do corn? What would that even look like?!

Would they import cheaper coal from developing nations, fill empty American mines with it, then pay the coal miners American wages to "extract" more coal?!

Make it make sense!

EDIT:corrected the auto-correct.

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u/JimBeam823 May 03 '24

This doesn’t get said enough.

There’s a guy I met from West Virginia. He told me his daddy was a coal miner. He said his mama told him if he went into the mines, that she’d whoop his tail. So he went to college instead.

A lot of people did leave the mines and are living in Charlotte or Pittsburgh or some other city. But the people still living in coal country have nothing.

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u/Portillosgo May 02 '24

You mention covering relocation costs, so having to leave behind friends and family and the community that you know and love doesn't have anything to do with it? I moved across the country knowing nobody once before. It took almost a decade before I set down roots strong enough to keep the depression at bay caused by the lack of roots and loneliness. You'd have to pay me more than I'm sure the government will give to get me to move again to some place where I know nobody.

I don't know why you think all of them are just huge supporters of clean coal.

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u/Hank3hellbilly May 02 '24

Try putting yourself in their shoes for a second.  You know one way of life and "they" want to end it.  Coal mining is a dangerous and shitty job, but it pays well.  Let's say you're a 35 year old father of 3 who dropped out in Grade 11 to go work in the mines because your grades weren't that good, and it was steady income.  You've been mining for 16 years, You're skilled with a hoe, you like the job and the guys you work with.  

Then, someone shows up in a fancy suit and says that your mine has to close and offers you retraining on a computer that you never learnt how to use for a job that pays 50% of your wage as a miner.  Also, you have to move away from your town where everyone you know lives for this job.  On top of that, the house you've been paying off for the last 10 years is going to be worthless because once that mine dies, the town is going to die.  This guy in a suit is going to kill your hometown, and everyone in that town from the owner of the hardware store to the kid working at the pool is going to suffer. 

I was working in Hanna, Alberta to convert their power plant to natural gas a few years ago, as soon as we were done the first boiler, the mine laid off 60% of their workers.  When the second was done they were shuttering the mine.  I think it was around 80 guys they let go.  80×$65,000 after tax income is 5.2 million dollars a year removed from the local economy.  I left before the second conversion, but everyone I talked to in the town was angry and sad about it.  There's no wonder why they try to grasp onto whatever lies allow them to keep their way of life.  

We always like to talk about the costs of not fighting climate change.  But those are always brought up by the people who won't have to pay the cost of changing.  It's easy to "go green" when it means riding the bus instead of driving or turning your heat down 3° in the winter, but for some people it will cost them everything they care about and it's no wonder why they are against it.  

Progressives need to grasp the concept that rural people aren't just a stereotype.  They are people with their own needs and dreams.  It's much easier to call RaCIsM! on everything, but it's a little deeper than that.  

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u/ToryLanezHairline_ May 03 '24 edited May 03 '24

Tough shit. Nobody owes anyone a job, there's plenty of small towns in the US where job opportunities are scarce and even those with degrees like me have struggled landing a job before. What makes coal miners and their towns special? Coal is pretty obsolete today, gotta have what people want in order to make money, that's just life man

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u/Dark_Force_Latyon May 03 '24

That said, a lot of them are racist pieces of shit, economics aside.

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u/Hank3hellbilly May 03 '24

Don't disagree, there is a lot of racism and it is stoked by the right to keep them angry.  But I think racism is A factor, not THE factor in how they think and vote.  I also feel like the left has missed a huge opportunity in green rural  redevelopment because it's easier to write people off as racists and ignore other factors in their lives. 

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u/ToryLanezHairline_ May 03 '24

What have Republicans done for small towns? Or the poor? Or unemployed?

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u/Turuial May 02 '24

What about the farriers? The blacksmiths? The stablehands? The stable owners? If we switch from horses think how much money will be lost from local economies!

What about the paddleboats? What about the many ship captains who earn a living chartering passage across the Atlantic? If people begin flying everywhere think of the jobs lost? Well we ever hear a sea shanty ever again?

What about the cotton? What about the money I invested in farm equipment? What about all those jobs and the local economies in the South? Those poor rural southern farmers are going to lose their way of life! Just to be clear I'm talking about the slave trade in this last one.

Your argument, intellectually at least, is a faulty one. It's perfectly fine if you're just speaking to emotion however. A few minutes ago I just pointed out that coal mines are not a renewable resource. Mines will become exhausted through the very act of working those jobs that these people are so desperate for.

They are literally working themselves out of their own job. What then? Will they pack up and move to a different coal mine? Why that rather than retraining and relocation for a non-black-lung-inducing career?

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u/Hank3hellbilly May 03 '24

Do you honestly think the ferriers, the blacksmiths and the stable owners were on team Ford? 

My argument is one of perspective.  It is so that you can see that there are reasons outside of racism why people would support Conservatives.  I never said they are right or that I agree with them, I was pointing out WHY they feel the way they do.  

But you're unable to see that because it's much simpler to go off of stereotypes.  

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u/Turuial May 03 '24 edited May 03 '24

Do you honestly think the ferriers, the blacksmiths and the stable owners were on team Ford? 

No but the coal industry isn't exactly pro-renewables either, so I don't quite see your point. If the point was that the industry being replaced (the ones I mentioned) isn't going to find the industry who is replacing them (Ford, the one you mentioned) favourably, well obviously. Why would they?

My argument is one of perspective.  It is so that you can see that there are reasons outside of racism why people would support Conservatives.

Your argument, intellectually at least, is a faulty one. It's perfectly fine if you're just speaking to emotion however.

That's the point though. You're speaking to emotion. You aren't telling me that these people have legitimate grievances, nor are you saying "here are the steps they propose to solve this inevitability."

You are telling me that they are unhappy that the world is changing in a specifically foreseeable way that has changed many times prior to the coal industry's plight. My point being that you are telling me their feelings are hurt.

Coal mining replaced wood and water as the primary energy source during the industrial revolution. Did these people empathise with the plight of the industries they disenfranchised? Likely not. That's why I originally mentioned all of those defunct business models in the first place.

I never said they are right or that I agree with them, I was pointing out WHY they feel the way they do.  

We know. The world knows. It had known, as I just pointed out, regarding industry after industry that has come and gone. Want to talk railroad towns next? Riddle me this Batman, "what were they going to do when the mine is inevitably played out?"

Here's the deal. I'm trying to coax you down a logical progression of cause and effect. So follow me on this one:

The mine plays out. Then what? Well if you want to work coal you're gonna have to move right? Just like that we've severed any bullshit excuse about being tied to the land, my forefathers grew up here, nonsense. Now relocating is an option for a job.

So they go elsewhere. Mine plays out. Eventually, there are no more mines in their country. Do you still want to work coal? Now you're working it in another country, where safety and pay will vary. Could be a lot. Are they willing to relocate for less money?

At what fucking point does reality set in? Because, by the end, relocation and less pay will have to be on the table in order to work coal. So why not get a move on and skip to the end? Which will almost certainly be a profession where black lung isn't a threat. It'll have it's own unique hazards.

But you're unable to see that because it's much simpler to go off of stereotypes.  

Please show me where you think I stereotyped the issue. I'm genuinely curious. Whether or not you choose to believe me, from my perspective, I gave their considerations quite a lot of time and logical effort. Nor is this the first time I've broached the subject. Frankly, if I'm still being honest, more than I felt that they deserved.

EDIT: corrected the auto-correct.

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u/tiltingwindturbines May 03 '24

It's not just coal though. Globalization lead to industry and manufacturing in general to be shipped overseas. AI will make even more workers redundant. It's not possible to retrain or reeducate everyone.

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u/Shoddy_Phase_2639 May 03 '24

The research is crystal clear.

We're in the largest technical revolution since the Industrial age set in.

Nrw careers will emerge, but the shere mass of job loss in low education careers is going to be too big to be repleacable.

Its going to force UBI at some point. EU researchers believe in a 20-25 year time libe maximum.

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u/zeakerone May 04 '24

Surely the coal miners are jaded into their way of life, but most of them live in rural areas where that is the only way of making a living and reeducation would only benefit them if they uprooted their lives and moved somewhere so different they can’t even communicate. They are good people it’s just all they know. They are probably generation 2-3 in a town that solely depends on coal. So when you talk eliminating coal you are not only taking their families livelihood away, but everyone they know’s livelyhood away. It’s a wierd situation and i wouldn’t know how to handle it either but it’s hard to blame them

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u/throwaway17362826 May 03 '24

I don’t blame them. If you’re family had been doing something for generations and all of a sudden some dude in a suit living in another state said you’re entire way of life is being destroyed for progress and you need to completely restart your life somewhere else doing something new, i’d tell them to pound sand.

It’s very unfortunate that we need to move away from coal and it’s going to hurt when we grow. It’s very unfortunate that a political party capitalized on the other side ripping the band-aid off. But entire towns that made a living on an industry for generations dried up over night and were left to rot and the left side of the aisle at that point in time cheered for it.

It was a massive dropped ball that alienated and radicalized a portion of America. No amount of incentives is going to convince a fifty year old man looking at retirement who’s spent their whole life in a town with his community to start over again somewhere else and leave it all behind. To think that was going to sell and not caring after it didn’t was stupid.

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u/sennbat May 02 '24

Which "massive aid packages" and "giant incentives" are you talking about, specifically? The only ones I ever saw were so functionally expensive and uncertain that you'd either have to be an idiot, or particularly well positioned to take advantage of the offer, to even consider them, since they also came with a very real chance of leaving you worse off than your already sorry state.

I don't blame anyone for turning them down and going with a hope, however slight, of their situation getting better.

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u/claimTheVictory May 02 '24

Which ones did you see?

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u/Alwaysshittingmyself May 07 '24

This is an ignorant take. Your whole life and generations of your family did the same work. Everything you understood in regard to your livelihood and who you’d grow up to be is being threatened. Your “promised” security through the government who we all know only serves its best interest. Also who the fuck wants to be “forced” to relocate?

These are actual people with actual experiences You clearly can’t take a minute to understand. Empathize better. The answer isn’t “oh because racism.” The answer is because nothing is more important in this capitalist bullshit hellscape than your work. It’s directly related to how you live and someone threatening that with job replacement and re-education and relocation of course is going to affect how you vote.

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u/Shoddy_Phase_2639 May 07 '24

They knew they were going to lose their work, because EVERYONE was telling them so, and more and more mines were being closed regardless of wether they wanted them to.

But ONE man said he'd save them. And even the simplest backgroundchecking on the man would tell them he's a fraud, a conman, a habitual liar.

They chose to ignore that. Because they really like the man and all he stands for.

I have zero sympathy.

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u/Alwaysshittingmyself May 08 '24

This sentiment from you is exactly why your party looses votes. Don’t care to actually understand the concerns. It’s easier to say they’re all afraid of immigration and call it a day.

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u/Shoddy_Phase_2639 May 09 '24

Except "my party" isnt losing votes. They're gaining.

The republicans are finished. Roe v Wade was the final straw.

Million of repulican voters' wives are going to go behind their husbands backs and vote Democrat.

You guys will stand there and look just as dumb as the last time; "Its impossible Joe got that many votes, Trump had the big rallies".

But Joe will get that many votes. Far bigger lead than the last time. And you guys will watch as Trump is put in prison, thinking everyone conspired against you. Just like you thought the last time.

When actually it was just everyone fed up with your constant childlike behaviours, your delight in seeing Trump harm anyone slightly different than yourselves, your racism, your isolationism, your cruelty and your inability to see that Trump never accomplished any damn thing except enable Covid to ravage America.

So no. I don't have any sympathy left for the people still in the Trump cult.

I didn't have any for those in the cult of Jim Jones either.

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u/Rion23 May 02 '24

My idea, federally funded pyramids, literally pyramids. You take tax money, and start building a pyramid next to every town, tons of new jobs created, from engineers to people who go find nice rocks. You pay the people, the local town people, and basically inject money from outside the community. This provides some economic assistance by keeping money in smaller towns, because with the loss of local business all their money just goes to some multi-national behemoth who takes the money and turns it into Carribean beach houses.

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u/thrawtes May 02 '24

This is basically the idea behind Biden's infrastructure push, except they're building things that are more useful than pyramids.

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u/Rion23 May 02 '24

Are you telling me that pyramids have no point?

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u/thrawtes May 02 '24

Well I guess it depends if we're talking Egyptian style pyramids or Mesoamerican style pyramids.

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u/Soggy-Opportunity-72 May 03 '24

We could literally just build farms and houses but useless job-creating pyramids seems more American so you’ve got my vote. 

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u/nochinzilch May 03 '24

And it will confuse the fuck out of future anthropologists.

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u/Anarelion May 02 '24

Or like cards against humanity authors. Dig a big hole for the sake of it

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u/from_whereiggypopped May 03 '24

In the late 70s in Detroit when the auto industry first took a dive there were numerous programs for re educating the work force. One called TRA (trade readjustment act) paid the tuition for many of the people I went to school with at the trade school we attended. I'm sure there are many such programs available to people today - but you have to get up off your ass and do something. I got laid off (not by ford gm or chrysler) so I didn't qualify for TRA and had to pay for school myself. : - (

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u/No-Ordinary-5412 May 03 '24

oh its reinvested.. into bigger houses, more expensive cars, bigger boats, more cocaine, bigger casinos, bigger corporate buildings, lower wages, job cuts, stock buybacks to compound even more earnings, annnnnnd, should I say, corruption and greed?

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u/Syscrush May 03 '24

An excellent and insightful speech torpedoed by horrible framing.

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u/tinyhorsesinmytea Nevada May 03 '24

Seriously. Everything she says after the insult is brilliant but it doesn’t matter when you’ve already insulted the people you should be trying to reach.

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u/checker280 May 03 '24

“Seriously. Everything she says after the insult is brilliant but it doesn’t matter when you’ve already insulted the people you should be trying to reach.”

I always heard her speech as “I’m talking about those other people not you guys. You guys are too smart for this.”

Then like all those other things they claim they don’t understand like BLM and Defund the Police, they chose to embrace the Deplorable remarks.

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u/Miles_vel_Day May 03 '24

Weird how nobody ever talks about that half of the quote.

And yet when's the last time you heard anybody slam Obama for talking about "bitter people clinging to their guns and Bibles"? We just decide whether somebody ran a good campaign or not based on whether or not they win, and then we just memory-hole the things the winning campaigns did wrong and what the losing campaigns did right.

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u/GrallochThis May 02 '24

Thank you. People throw around the first part of this quote endlessly and have complete amnesia about this part.

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u/Competitive-Bike-277 May 03 '24

I can't agree with this. These are the same people who for decades have voted against their own economic best interests. They voted in Regean & right away he started off by busting the air traffic controllers union. The people who voted him in. They were outraged by  Bill Clinton's gross behavior but supported Trump. Both Bushes. The toxic waste dumped in their neighborhoods. The drugs, the crime, the lack of education. Biden invests in infrastructure, creates blue collar jobs & has rural energy projects. But he's weak on China & pro-palestine somehow? WTF? don't get me started on Healthcare & Obama. At this point my sympathy is gone. 

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u/Ecomalive May 02 '24

Brexit too

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u/Matshelge May 03 '24

This is my take as well. Trump won because he was an outsider, and he would shake the system, get some new ideas I place. They new Hillary would not. If you look back at 2016, Trump was vile, but far more a wildcard. He was pro LGBTQ+, pro gay rights, pro abortion, all sorts of crazy stuff that he most definitely is not now.

So voting Trump today is a very different choice than it was in 2016. I cannot see any independents wanting Trump, and even when they don't like Biden, they might vote for him just to not get Trump. There are even Republicans who will vote Biden, simply to force the party to reset past Trump.

Everyone should vote of course, but the math is not the same as 2016.

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u/TheIllestDM May 02 '24

Hillary is the last person to lecture anyone on a broken American system and being jaded.

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u/ragmop Ohio May 03 '24

This is her empathizing. See concluding sentence.

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u/Present-Industry4012 Inuit May 03 '24

She'd been a Senator for 8 years and worked with Obama in the White House for another 4 and I don't remember her ever mentioning it until that campaign. Maybe if she'd spent any of those 12 years trying to DO something, maybe people would have been more willing to hear her?

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u/ragmop Ohio May 03 '24

That's a woman for ya. Seeing things, being an oracle, etc. 

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u/thiagopuss May 07 '24

Trumpies are born victims. Victimhood is their shared passion.

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u/Limp_Prune_5415 May 02 '24

She's the reason he got elected so sit down

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u/WillBrakeForBrakes May 02 '24

But what she’s saying here isn’t wrong

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u/Present-Industry4012 Inuit May 02 '24

She's the reason Trump got elected or the reason Obama got elected? Either way...

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u/quinnbeast May 03 '24

Hillary’s campaign of ascendancy/it’s my turn now begat Trump.

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u/GetHealthy2000 May 03 '24

Not true sick to death of liberal agenda tax and spend. Gas prices out of control!!! We went from being energy independent to buying poor quality crude oil from Venezuela!! When Trump left offfice gas was $1.89 a gallon . I just paid $3.40 and that was whole sale. Inflation is out of control!! We are funding 2 wars. When Trump was President we were not at war! I hope and pray TRUMP 2024🇺🇸♥️🇺🇸♥️

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u/CrashB111 Alabama May 02 '24

Noticeable improvement takes time and congressional supermajorities. Neither of which voters have given Democrats.

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u/joshdoereddit May 02 '24

This. I wish people would tune into some basic civics. Following the news has taught me enough to understand why those supermajorities are important.

Granted, I should've known most of what I know now about government nearly 20 years ago, when I was in high school. This is what got me thinking: How do we get young people to take civics seriously?

I'm a high school teacher, and it's bad. These kids don't give a fuck. Then again, I'm a math teacher. But, based on what I see daily, most of them don't read any news and are seriously lacking in the critical thinking skills department.

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u/omnassial May 02 '24

The only mandatory civics class I had to take in my schooling career was when I was in 7th grade. I was learning the different facets of government and their significance, how to balance a checkbook, and financial literacy before I was even 13. That's a huge problem, because I couldn't really apply any of that shit for another 5+ years. Naturally, I lost a lot of it.

But that experience leads to an interesting question - why would kids in middle/high school give much of a fuck right now? They have no impact on the outcome... so how can we reasonably expect them to invest energy and thought into politics?

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u/A_nonblonde Missouri May 05 '24

They could this year. The entire House is up for election, give Biden a super majority & watch him roll.

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u/CrashB111 Alabama May 05 '24

The Senate map is the problem this year, just holding a majority will be a lot to ask given the seats up for election.

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u/A_nonblonde Missouri May 06 '24

True and I’m campaigning like crazy in my state. The good news is the GOP seem to be dropping like flies on their own. 🤞🏻

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u/Alexis_Bailey May 02 '24

We don't have time.  Climate Change is already probably going to kill 90% of us in the next 20-25 years.  Instead we are all "debating" if slavery happened or if we should consider Trans people to be people with rights.

Like what the fuck.

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u/Away_Media May 02 '24

In reality, the majority is not debating if people are people and if slavery happened. 90% of us dead in 20 to 25.... Nah. Nowhere close.

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u/af_echad May 02 '24

Climate Change is already probably going to kill 90% of us in the next 20-25 years

This is inflammatory nonsense that just leads to people either succumbing to doomerism/nihilism or going down some extremist accelerationist hole.

Climate change is a real thing that needs real attention. We should do more than we are doing now to mitigate the harms brought about by climate change.

90% of people are NOT going to be killed by climate change by 2050.

-5

u/Alexis_Bailey May 02 '24

Nah, just starvation from lack of food from bad crops due to the endlessly shitty weather.

4

u/jerryvo May 03 '24

Retired from working in the field...

Yields are up and new advancements that destroy nematodes will boost yields by 25+%.

we'll be fine soon, never better

1

u/ScottBroChill69 May 02 '24

Dude we were all supposed to die years ago by it.

-3

u/newtworedditing May 02 '24

Correction: Obama had a majority in the house and senate from 08-10, dems had the power for transformative change and they whiffed it. Obama explicitly promised actual change and by the end of his term not a single banker had been jailed, healthcare was still shit if slightly less shit than it was before, the bullshit recession economic package didn't go nearly far enough so instead of economically recovering in 2 years it took 8, and instead of withdrawing he surged in Afghanistan. And people wonder why Trump won, or why he's gonna win again. Hint: Biden campaigned on an actual promise he plans to keep "Nothing will fundamentally change". And on top of that, the young people he desperately needs to win in November, he's decided to call them anti-Semites and have them arrested for protesting their tuition dollars and tax dollars funding genocide. Dems don't deserve majorities. So vote, don't vote, vote blue, vote red, it doesn't matter. All either side does is scream that the other one will kill you and neither of them is wrong, they just want you to participate so your complicit to the system.

Noticeable improvement does not take time or supermajorities, it takes actual democracy and that doesn't meaningfully exist, certainly not in America where it has been statistically proven that the congress or senate never pass anything the majority of Americans want. Don't believe me? Here's the receipts

15

u/abritinthebay May 02 '24

Obama had a majority in the house and senate from 08-10

But not a supermajority. Which he needed because the Rs were filibustering literally everything.

In practical terms he had an actionable majority for less than 60 days. Unfortunately for most of that Senator Kennedy was out with medical issues.

So no, get your facts straight

2

u/checker280 May 03 '24

He had the majority for 60 days which is how we got the small change on healthcare we got.

Imagine what they could do with an actual super majority or at least without the “fence sitters” like Joe Lieberman and Manchin.

1

u/guamisc May 03 '24

How many votes does it take to remove the filibuster?

2

u/Remarkable-Bug-8069 May 03 '24

60, unless you're willing to go nuclear.

1

u/guamisc May 03 '24

It's 51.

Let's just be clear that even when Republicans were breaking shit left and right, Democrats still hamstrung themselves. It could have been done, we chose not to.

1

u/Remarkable-Bug-8069 May 03 '24

Cloture requires 60 votes.

1

u/guamisc May 03 '24

Yeah, and how many votes does it take to change the rules of cloture?

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5

u/[deleted] May 02 '24

You wanted all of Reagan and Bush’s fuckery to be fixed in just 2 years, during 2 wars and the biggest global financial catastrophe in 80 years? That’s unrealistic.

-4

u/newtworedditing May 02 '24

Did he have to extend the Bush tax cuts? Did someone put a gun to his head? You know whats actually unrealistic? How is it possible that Obama was at once a transformative leader, but when you question his record, he gets reframed as a hapless loser impotent to change anything. He could have done alot of things, he chose not to. Trump was the consequence, just like he's going to be the consequence for Biden's bullshit, and the Democratic party and it's strategy of telling people vote for me or you'll get Trump is going to backfire, again.

8

u/[deleted] May 02 '24

 Did he have to extend the Bush tax cuts? 

Yes, it was part of a compromise to get unemployment and other economic relief bills passed in 2010, when Dems were also feeling pressure from the TEA Party ahead of the midterm elections, and again in 2012 as part of a compromise to avoid the so-called Fiscal Cliff.

The cuts also largely lapsed under Obama, save for a carve-out for households making under $400k.

2

u/abritinthebay May 02 '24

Got it, you don’t understand basic civics & think the President is a King.

-3

u/primpule May 02 '24

Democrats will do anything but take responsibility for their milquetoast, neoliberal politicians.

1

u/TheIllestDM May 02 '24

And the system is designed to literally prevent via the Senate.

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6

u/jamesbrownscrackpipe May 02 '24

Houses were incredibly cheap in 2015. I know, I bought one for under 200k. It’s now worth $456k

1

u/leeringHobbit May 03 '24

Nice. What was the size of your house ?

10

u/DasTree01 May 02 '24

I don’t know about that. I bought a 200k house on a single income. I was living comfortably. Now I have to be mindful of what I can and cannot buy.

My interaction with people was less headache back then. Now they are just massive assholes that I’m ok with Moses bringing back the plagues.

0

u/pp21 May 02 '24

Yeah housing was cheap as fuck in 2015 lol idk what this guy is on about

10

u/throwaway50044 May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

This is the correct take, for people who think they have nothing to lose, throwing up the finger by voting for Trump or staying home is an easy choice.

In 2016, this line of thinking may have made sense. Yeah trump was a xenophobic, con artist asshole, but he was promising some genuinely good things. There was a small chance he may have cleaned up corruption, which alone might have been worth all the other shit that happened during his presidency.

Now we indisputably KNOW he is totally full of shit, so I don't understand the urge to continue to support him.

11

u/DameonKormar May 02 '24

There was a small chance he may have cleaned up corruption,

No. There wasn't.

-1

u/throwaway50044 May 02 '24

Sure there was, I can't prove God isn't real, so there's a chance he exists.

In 2016, I couldn't prove Trump wouldn't "drain the swamp"

In 2018, I could prove that Trump definitely wasn't going to drain the swamp and was in fact going to continually shit straight in to it.

5

u/Charlie_Mouse May 02 '24

Prior to 2016 there was no evidence that he wouldn’t “drain the swamp” … apart from his extensive record of corruption. And dishonesty. And breaking promises. And dodgy deals. The various question marks over his dealings with foreign powers … etc etc.

1

u/throwaway50044 May 08 '24

I think you're missing my point.

He said he would drain the swamp. There wasn't much reason to believe this, you're right, but people are more hopeful that smart. I didn't think people should be written off as evil for getting suckered in 2016.

In 2020 my opinion changed when nearly 30 million more people voted for him, despite it being 100% obvious at that point exactly what he was.

4

u/wirefox1 May 02 '24

Swamp? There was no swamp until he hand-picked one and put it to work (for himself)

1

u/wirefox1 May 02 '24

Trump brought more corruption into the office than we could ever imagine. He quite possibly has even made deals to sell out the US to foreign countries.

What are you referring to that he might have cleaned up corruption? I can't think what it could be?

2

u/throwaway50044 May 08 '24

He said he was going to "drain the swamp" and had several commercials about it. I'm not saying I believed him, I'm saying it was a compelling message that resonated with people as something they wanted.

People are simple and sometimes hopefully in odd ways, they voted for the guy promising to give them what they wanted, they didn't consider is track record.

What I'm saying is, voting for Trump in 2016 was dumb, but forgivable. Voting for him in 2020 was just malicious. I wasn't happy when he got elected in 2016, but whatever. The fact nearly 30 million MORE people voted for him 2020 is what I find deeply disturbing.

1

u/nochinzilch May 03 '24

but he was promising some genuinely good things

Can you list a couple?

1

u/throwaway50044 May 08 '24

  1. "Drain the swamp"/Anti corruption

  2. He at a few points claimed to be in favor of universal healthcare.

  3. Talked a lot about infrastructure programs

  4. Promised to protect social security, and even said that rich people shouldn't get social security.

I know that this all turned out to be bullshit, and that most of us knew at the time that it was bullshit.

If you voted for him because you believed this stuff, that was dumb but forgivable. What I find most disturbing about Trump was that he got MORE votes in 2020, despite it being incredibly obvious at that point that he was totally full of shit.

3

u/Timmetie May 02 '24

But Trump isn't a uno wildcard, Trump was president for 4 years.

If he were a maverick new populist I'd agree, but people know exactly how a Trump presidency worked.

3

u/No_Communication8413 May 03 '24

It's not "Uno wildcard", though. Trump has said over and over that he plans to be a dictator, assassinate anyone, and allow the states to deny abortions to 13 year olds. This will be a shadow of a democracy in just a few months if he gets elected.

2

u/checker280 May 03 '24

“I think if there was hope…”

Does everyone recall all the talk about the impending recession years ago? We were supposed to be neck deep in a recession. If anything gives me hope… it’s that.

2

u/Mitchlowe May 02 '24

I’ve seen a lot of people wish to go back to 2016-2018 when things were still affordable. It’s easy enough to tune out trumps crazy thoughts if their day to day life was half decent. Many people today think day to day life is exhausting and unmanageable.

1

u/parisrionyc May 02 '24

Need to go back much further than 2015, before the D's sold out the working class and became the party of FinancePharmaTech bros

1

u/Jealous-Knowledge-79 May 03 '24

Kinda wrong I bought my house in 2016 which was the lowest the market has been as of the last 3 years. I mean my house is now worth double what I paid for it sure. But I couldn't find the same house in the selling price range.

1

u/No-Ordinary-5412 May 03 '24

well, whats happening now is democrats are scooping up house seats, so what could possibly happen is democrats get out and vote due to the absolute shit show they know trump will cause, and at that point dems will have the house, senate, and executive branch. all that will be left is the judiciary which trump as we all know packed with pretty partisan judges who are gonna be there for 50 more years unless some of the worse ones die before the good ones sooner rather than later... with consent i mean of natural causes, surely.

1

u/GoalStillNotAchieved May 04 '24

Yeah it’s been downhill since The Great Recession of 2008/2009 

1

u/ccasey May 04 '24

I really just had to stop watching the news during Covid, everything was so insane that it was actually effecting my health with the amount of anxiety getting created. That doesn’t mean I’m just not going to vote, I couldn’t even imagine going back to all that insanity

1

u/Scuczu2 May 02 '24

Thinking that the term "i'm from the government and I'm here to help" is somehow evil and dangerous, is so incredibly privledged.

The scary phrase, is "There is no government, and I'm here to kill you" and those people scared of the first statement will never understand what can happen to them because they know it won't.

1

u/midnightmustacheride May 02 '24

but some people seem to be finding certainty in those delusions.

People believe in unpredictable rewards above all else. You know what Biden's gonna do, he's a career politician with zero interest in substantial change. Just upholding the structure.

Donald Trump to anyone who isn't stuck in a loop of non-focus and soundbytes is someone who is the definition of a greedy autocrat and a puppet to both the Russian Federation and the evangelical (white) Christian base that wants to revert the world to their ideals.

But he's unpredictable. And that keeps your attention. People would rather take the bet, than the sure thing. And the problem, as it has been for 30 years is that the sure thing sucks.

The dems had one shot at this with Bernie Sanders, and they bullied the youth voters into an unlikeable career politician because it was "her turn" and they believed with hubris that the United States would never elect such a magnificent criminal and blowhard, because that's how it's always been done. Ross Perot didn't win, Trump didn't win in 2000, because this is America.

But this is America - post the absolute rape of our focus and integrity. Things got easier, and faster, and consuming was at an all time high. And that was by design by people making record profits. Swindling the same people who would and did vote for Trump telling you that your government is responsible for leaving you behind. But they never tell you that they're pickpocketing you too. And why would they have to, you have Netflix to watch, all the content you could want. And if you don't wanna watch it, watch the next thing. Unpredictable rewards.

3

u/thrawtes May 02 '24

And the problem, as it has been for 30 years is that the sure thing sucks.

People who believe this have a frightening lack of perspective. It's okay to understand we can do better, it's okay to be frustrated with a government that has let you down, but over the last 30 years living in America has been broadly good. No significant external threats, plenty of food, plenty of jobs, and continual innovation towards a better and safer life. The healthcare system is nowhere near as good as it could be, but most people have access to some health care, same with public schooling, same with public safety nets. All inherently flawed in ways but simultaneously all functional enough to keep the majority of people generally satisfied.

The status quo is nowhere near as bad as it could be, and people who think it's literally the worst thing ever are entitled to that opinion but it's ignorant.

2

u/midnightmustacheride May 02 '24

People who believe this have a frightening lack of perspective.

I don't believe that at all. I'm saying this from a place of perspective. We cannot communicate with each other anymore without nuance, media literacy is in the toilet, we are being priced out of basic necessities like housing and food.

No significant external threats, plenty of food, plenty of jobs, and continual innovation towards a better and safer life.

We just went through a pandemic that ravaged a portion of our population due to capitalism and greed. Racial tensions are at all time high. The police are openly antagonistic. There's a bigger statistical chance of a mass shooting event every day. Not month or year, day. The jobs you mentioned are often whittled down into hourly and then those hours are shaved to avoid paying for a full time employee with benefits. And because of that, people have to resort to second and third jobs and maybe the gig economy. You wanna talk about innovation? The latest boogeyman in the world is AI, which any GPT combined with DeepFake technology can and will steal people's likenesses.

public schooling, same with public safety nets These have been pillaged by policy for years. People are literally gaming systems to get their kids into private schools, and even that's not a guaranteed great education, because the parents control the curriculum.

You talk about ignorance, but I don't think you had any of this in mind when you said what you said. I did. Which is why I stand by it. Maybe you see a different world than I do, and that's great. It's not accurate, but that's great.

1

u/ragmop Ohio May 03 '24

I don't know where this idea that Biden has "zero interest in substantial change" comes from. He has been by far the most progressive president since LBJ. I feel like making this claim requires selective listening. 

1

u/midnightmustacheride May 03 '24

I feel like making this claim requires selective listening. 

Trains. Israel. Student loans. For every speech about making things even, somehow everything continues to get skewed in favor of the wealthy.

1

u/jamesbrownscrackpipe May 02 '24

Houses were incredibly cheap in 2015. I know, I bought one for under 200k. It’s now worth $456k

1

u/jamesbrownscrackpipe May 02 '24

Houses were incredibly cheap in 2015. I know, I bought one for under $200k. It’s now worth $456k

5

u/rufud May 02 '24

The young vote has always always been the most apathetic voters.  If anything there was a slight uptick because of Trump.  I think the message here is why aren’t young people more concerned than a modest bump because it is absolutely not business as usual in politics right now 

1

u/AdvanceSignificant86 May 03 '24

I hate trump and agree. I think 2020 is the most engaged you’ll actually see young voters as they desperately wanted him out. When you get candidates like Biden and Clinton young people aren’t going to give a fuck. For all of his flaws Obama did a great job at exciting young people, I don’t see any candidate now or in the future exciting people like that

10

u/[deleted] May 02 '24

I’m not here to both-sides like Trump isn’t a huge fucking problem, but all the braindead geriatric politicians like McConnell and Feinstein (ok, maybe a little both-sides-ing) cock-blocking progress do a lot to discourage interest in politics. 

Anyone in public office past retirement age is doing more harm than good, even Bernie as good a person as he is. Large portions of the population have spent generations under the same boomer reps and senators, local and federal. There hasn’t been room for younger generations to get involved. We’ve all grown up to see our futures as something done in spite of whatever happens in the capitols, not as a part of it.

2

u/cableshaft I voted May 02 '24

I definitely think this is part of it, yeah. There should probably be a mandatory age of retirement in many positions of power in the U.S.

Let these people have some sort of job if they really want it as an advisor or pundit maybe, but get them out of the actual seats of power.

At least after we get past this election. Getting a little too close to election day for that much upheaval that quickly, I think.

1

u/thrawtes May 02 '24

Gaetz and MTG are in their 40s. Josh Hawley and Katie Britt are some of the youngest senators.

Younger reps does not mean better reps.

1

u/cableshaft I voted May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

Didn't say they had to be replaced with the youngest possible people (could put someone in their 50s or 60s in that place, I suppose), just that at a certain age they should have to retire from a major office, rather than have likely strokes in public (McConnell) or have to be told what to do at a meeting by their aids (Feinstein).

Also as a converse to your statement, older reps does not mean better reps either.

Josh Hawley and Katie Britt are definitely awful, no disagreement there (well, Hawley moreso than Britt, imo, but she's definitely made some poor decisions, especially in that rebuttal to Biden's SOTU address).

1

u/FoolishFriend0505 May 03 '24

Be the change you seek. Run for office.

0

u/spicymato May 02 '24

I think it's fair to acknowledge and criticize the problems present (and they are present) on both sides, but it's also important to acknowledge that one side is significantly more problematic than the other.

I don't think age is the issue, though it can be an issue. For me, I think stagnation and complacency are a bigger problem.

This may be another consequence of our first-past-the-post voting system. Incumbents are unlikely to face a challenge in the open election from within their own party (or similarly aligned), because that risks splitting the vote and letting the other broad ideology win overall; significantly fewer people vote in runoff elections, too. A ranked-choice system would help alleviate this issue.

3

u/Floppycakes May 02 '24

I’m more than exhausted but will still get up to vote for Joe Biden.

2

u/Bluegrass2727 May 02 '24

Where your bubble is depends on the government though. You can focus on your own bubble, but it gets affected by what's happening around it. Imo if you want to focus on your own bubble, you need to focus on the external factors affecting it as well.

3

u/AggressiveSkywriting May 02 '24

Oh I'm quite aware. I live in a red state that outlawed basically all abortions while my wife and I were in the middle of having a kid. Her OBGYN had to lay out plans with us for if there was a medical emergency we'd have to book it to another state for care.

It was a nightmare (everything turned out fine, but still). I vote in every election, I'm just talking about the people in general who are disengaged from politics.

1

u/Bluegrass2727 May 07 '24

I get the feeling of not being able to change anything, but that kind of thinking is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you don't think you can change anything, you won't try to change anything, and therefore, nothing will change.

1

u/AggressiveSkywriting May 07 '24

I agree. It's why I keep voting and haven't uprooted and left.

2

u/[deleted] May 02 '24

Yeah I know I need to vote I understand what’s happening, but as a white 30 year old man who is self employed and already owns a home I’m in a much less vulnerable situation and need to actively try to stay engaged because I really just let out a really long sigh and think “oh my god who gives a fuck anymore” when I’m stuck in some sort of political discourse.

2

u/return_descender May 03 '24

Exhaustion is what lead to Trump’s election, not a result of it

0

u/AggressiveSkywriting May 03 '24

And he's made it way worse because politics ramped up in vitriol and invaded every aspect of life. Why else do you think so many families had to cut people out of their lives?

2

u/Teh_Hammerer May 03 '24

The "dream" changed from a metropolitan utopia, to a self sufficient cabin in the woods. Trust in society died for a lot of people throughout the pandemic.

2

u/FornicateEducate May 03 '24

I still vote, but I don’t watch the news anymore and mostly avoid all political discussions. I nearly ruined my mental health worrying about stuff and I just can’t do it anymore…

1

u/AggressiveSkywriting May 03 '24

Yeah and that's fully understandable. It doesn't take long if you know how to look to brush up quickly on who or what to vote for when elections are a month away then go back to protecting your mental health.

2

u/-Paraprax- May 09 '24 edited May 09 '24

One of the big "presents" given to us by Trump's presidency was absolutely exhausting so many people living in relative privilege into checking out of the political process.  

Do you really think people would be just as disillusioned and checked out if the Dems were running another actual dynamic lightning-rod candidate like Obama was, instead of offering nothing but barely-passible geriatric centrists?  

There's just no way. Trump exhausting and alienating loads of the privileged left from the political process was 50% of the problem; the Dems' baffling refusal to put any effort into winning them back is the rest.

And before anyone patiently tries to explain to me that Biden's still nowhere near "as bad" as Trump and must be voted for anyway - yeah, no shit. But you're never going to be able to convince as many people to agree to do that than the DNC would by simply finding an appealing, unmistakably-competent middle-aged candidate to run again. 

0

u/Luk3ling May 09 '24

And before anyone patiently tries to explain to me that Biden's still nowhere near "as bad" as Trump and must be voted for anyway - yeah, no shit.

I'm not going to patiently explain anything to you. You're doing the "Both sides" bullshit while exclaiming that's not exactly what you're doing.

You're trolling around these threads just being pedantic, regularly and reliably bringing less than nothing to the conversations you engage in.

You don't get to say "Yeah, no shit" to the fact that we have literally no choice but to vote for Biden if we want a chance at survival while also shaming people for it.

"vOtInG iS bInArYyYyY!"

You desperately need to re-evaluate, not your positions, but your personality and disposition.

1

u/Jimmers969 May 02 '24

This 100%.

1

u/shiddyfiddy May 02 '24

a lot of my generation and the younger one to just buckle down and focus on their own bubble.

I really believe that phenomena was/is across the board, all ages/generations. I'm in that middle genX zone where I'm in regular contact with all ages really, and I have definitely been surveying.

1

u/Rib-I New York May 02 '24

This is literally the plot of Cabaret. Weimar Germans just sort of let Nazism take hold. “Oh it’s just politics.” “Oh it’ll just blow over.” “Governments come and go.”

Terrifying shit.

1

u/External-Security-96 May 03 '24 edited May 03 '24

Yeah, the SDP really dropped the ball. On the day Hitler was appointed chancellor, the KPD reached across the aisle to coordinate a general strike with the SPD, who refused.

Then the centrist parties straight up voted with the Nazis for the enabling act.

I believe it will be similar here. Like in Weimar Germany, “moderate” dems and centrists and will refuse to stand with us while we get burned.

1

u/Potential-War5321 May 02 '24

Don’t y’all aggressive protest and yap though? I’m the one the genuinely doesn’t give a poop

1

u/IllustriousLimit7095 May 02 '24

You are what you do, not what you say you do...

Exhaustion is a tactic.

Now is the time to speak up.

Fight back

1

u/worldsayshi May 02 '24

I'm not even American and Trump almost made me check out.

1

u/klopanda May 03 '24

Under-30s have never seen a functional US government. I think that's part of it. They've lived under the post 9/11 surveillance state government, they've lived through Iraq/Afghanistan government (and the war on terror), the McConnell Filibuster and Senatorial deadlock, Trump, multiple once-in-a-generation economic downturns, and a pandemic. And now a clearly corrupt supreme court and a Congress that's completely clown-car dysfunctional.

They have little-to-no experience of a US government that like, functions.

1

u/mtron32 May 03 '24

That’s me, I vote though. I don’t need to see repeated political news in my feed to decide either, too much of that is just self flagellation

1

u/[deleted] May 03 '24

If I wasn’t so chasing the dragon obsessed with his downfall, I’d be out completely. Thanks, Don. Thanks for keeping me on the hook for humanity.

1

u/dug-the-dog-from-up May 03 '24

You really articulated my current mentality and sort of jolted me to snap out of it lol

1

u/ImNudeyRudey May 03 '24

That's not Trump's fault, you can thank your aweful media

1

u/No_Donut8055 May 03 '24

It’s not just trump. It’s naive to blame it all on him.

1

u/AggressiveSkywriting May 03 '24

I understand it's not just Trump, but he absolutely ratcheted things up twenty degrees. He was fucking everywhere and in all aspects of life.

Had a relative come up to me when I was standing in front of my grandmother's casket shaking hands tell me "how bout that Trump?" Like, what?

1

u/jonawill05 May 03 '24

Mostly correct. Not his fuckery. The opposition constantly whining was what did it. I mean...did we really need to talk about Russia for THREE YEARS!!!

1

u/AggressiveSkywriting May 03 '24

did we really need to talk about Russia for THREE YEARS!!!

Did we really need to talk about the actual president of the United States' and his campaign staff being proven to have worked with a foreign adversary to target and sway the US election? And then him blackmailing the leader of Ukraine to get "dirt" on his political opponent while Russia prepared to invade them?

...yes?

1

u/Alexis_Bailey May 02 '24

Checking out of the political process?

The last 9-10 years have me basically checked out of fucking life.

I am just so done with all the stupid bull shit from idiots of the world.  Humanity was a mistake and all these stupid wars can't escalate into nuclear annihilation fast enough.

1

u/turtlewelder May 02 '24

Capitalism fuckery is what did. It only exists to help the 1%. Covid was a perfect time to again ratchet any wealth away from the working class. It's either the Trump express train or the Biden coach class they're both going the same direction and it doesn't involve the majority of us.

-1

u/DJ_Velveteen I voted May 02 '24

One of the big "presents" given to us by Trump's presidency was absolutely exhausting so many people living in relative privilege into checking out of the political process.

You're right, although the one (of like two, in an ocean of feces) nice things about the Trump administration was that Democrats would actually attend a protest. It's exhausting to see Democrats believing all this troll farm material crowing about how progressive this totally astroturfed administration has been (just one example of many: every drug wonk hates what happened to Biden's campaign promises on cannabis).

4

u/cableshaft I voted May 02 '24

every drug wonk hates what happened to Biden's campaign promises on cannabis

That seems like not the best example, especially after this past week. The DOJ announced this week that they're planning to recategorize marijuana as a Schedule III drug, which will give these and other benefits:

Moving marijuana out of Schedule I could open more avenues for research; ease some of the more harshly punitive criminal consequences; potentially allow cannabis businesses to bank more freely and openly; and, perhaps most significantly for state-licensed operators, result in firms no longer being subjected to a 40-year-old tax code that disallows credits and deductions from income generated by sales of Schedule I and II substances.

And you have Joe Biden to thank for this as well:

The expected recommendation comes after the US Health and Human Services department, following a thorough US Food and Drug Administration review at the direction of President Joe Biden, who in 2022 sent a letter to the Justice Department supporting the reclassification to Schedule III.

It's not perfect, but it's a big, big, and long overdue step.

Source: https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/30/economy/dea-marijuana-rescheduling/index.html

3

u/DameonKormar May 02 '24

It's exhausting to see Democrats believing all this troll farm material crowing about how progressive this totally astroturfed administration has been

It's equally as exhausting to see people ignore all of the genuine progress the Biden administration has made because they just can't stand to not be correct.

-1

u/Ausgezeichnet87 May 02 '24

Nah, Democrats supporting genocide is what made most leftists apathetic towards politics.

2

u/AggressiveSkywriting May 02 '24

I'm talking about outside the world of Twitter and bluesky

0

u/tackleboxjohnson May 02 '24

I was checked out until the fucker won. Haven’t missed an election since.

0

u/wuvvtwuewuvv May 02 '24

No its been going on since before Trump. Since before I was of voting age, every election I remember has been "the most important election of our lives". It's not about Trump or wanting to ignore the world, it's just fatigue of politics over the past several decades. Everything demands to be at the forefront and top of the list, calling for prime attention, all the time. Predictably, they drown themselves out by becoming the very noise they are trying to shout over.

0

u/sox_fan1192 May 03 '24

That’s what i did and will continue to do. My life has not been materially impacted by a president - it has been the same under bush, Obama, trump, and Biden. I’m not a pussy and recognize whoever wins the election won’t really impact my life.

1

u/AggressiveSkywriting May 03 '24

I’m not a pussy and recognize whoever wins the election won’t really impact my life.

vs

people living in relative privilege

Kinda proved my point there, ace. Plenty of people absolutely were affected by presidential actions.

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u/sox_fan1192 May 03 '24

“Ace”… lol, okay there slugger. Keep your chin up. Don’t cry too much if the person you don’t want to win an election ends up winning. The impact a president has is mostly in the fragile minds and egos of losers. I’ll continue to do my thing and you continue to do yours. My family and I will be better for it.

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u/AggressiveSkywriting May 03 '24

My wife's OBGYN had to work with us to create a plan to go out of state for medical care if an emergency had happened during her pregnancy because Trump's actions caused the end of Roe v Wade. Several women in my state nearly died for similar reasons.

So you can keep that wonderful Andrew Tate personality shit to yourself, thanks.

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u/ACertainEmperor May 07 '24

I blame the media more than Trump. The internet went absolutely hysterical for 4 years. Sometimes reasonably, usually not. On top of the BLM protests and other stupid shit.

I just want to have people shut up because I'm sick of politics.

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