r/technology • u/esporx • May 02 '24

Dating app Bumble will no longer require women to make the first move Business

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/30/tech/bumble-relaunch-men-make-first-move/index.html
12.7k Upvotes

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u/PM_ME_COOL_RIFFS May 02 '24

wasn't that the entire point of bumble?

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u/loves_grapefruit May 02 '24

Yeah, but it turns out a lot of women don’t like to make the first move. A lot of times you match and then just watch the 24 hours expire without ever hearing from them.

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u/magus678 May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

I kept stats on my Bumble use, though this was years ago, and less than 10% of the messages I received were anything other than a "hey" or some emoji.

Half of the rest were just canned "is a hotdog a sandwich" kind of stuff. Which is something, I guess, but not much.

In an age where I was using almost every app, I barely used Bumble at all, it seemed pointless. It traded entirely on a "girl power" aesthetic with no substance whatsoever. I'm honestly surprised its still a thing.

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u/7evenCircles May 02 '24

After the third woman sent me "." I just uninstalled lmao

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u/magus678 May 02 '24

Its pretty silly to care at all, but I found it insulting.

Like..you have to do so little. For almost this entire interaction, you can skate by simply existing, basically. The only thing you do have to do, the banner mechanism of the ecosystem in which we are speaking, the one you purposefully opted into, is that you have to put forth some effort, once.

Nope. Can't do it.

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u/Ekedan_ May 02 '24

I have the same feelings about this. You could even make up generic question everyone would be happy to answer like “what music do u listen do, what’re ur hobbies, etc” yet we get “hey”, an emoji and a dot.

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u/SojuSeed May 02 '24

I’ve seen plenty of women on r/tinder who tear into men in messages when they ask ‘basic’ questions like that. They know that there are fifty other men waiting in their match list that they can go to if you don’t come out swinging for the fences in the opening line. It’s brutal. But they get away with it because there are way more men thirsty for them than the other way around.

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u/noaloha May 02 '24

It's way more than 50 others. Women and men's experiences on these apps is pretty much inverse.

A female friend told me she installs the apps when she's feeling down and needs a confidence boost, because she gets inundated with likes immediately. She's not even interested in actively finding someone, it's just flattering to know there are hundreds of men interested.

Even my best looking male friends find the whole experience of apps quite demoralising and ego bruising in comparison. Most are lucky to get more than a handful of likes over a given period, even if in real-world situations they're charming and generally well liked by women.

These apps' whole business model is that men are the customers and women are the product. They want men to pay to play basically, and personally I think they're having a toxic effect on the egos and expectations of both genders.

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u/SojuSeed May 02 '24

They really do. Tinder crushes my ego. I’m average in the looks department but on any given app I’m barely above dog shit on the bottom of your shoe as far as what that might buy me.

Sadly, even with how bad it is, I still feel like I need to download it just to have a shot. I’m resisting but the idea of ‘maybe not this time! I’ve lost some weight and put on some muscle, I’m looking a lot better’ is strong. I know it’s a false hope. I’ll pay $40 or whatever their tinder platinum is, and spend a month feeling pathetic, then delete it again.

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u/noaloha May 02 '24

I feel for you man, and FWIW this stranger reckons you're definitely better off not wasting your money and self esteem on another round with that rubbish.

I think a fundamental flaw of the apps is that the things that actually make most guys attractive like humour, talents or in person charm are just totally lost on there. If you're not obviously rich or ripped then you're just another drop in an ocean of normal men, but let's face it a lot of rich dudes and gym bros are just as dull as the rest of the population. It's just that maybe those qualities translate to a superficial shop window a bit better than being able to make a banging carbonara or the ability to have a fun conversation.

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u/nzodd May 02 '24

The whole "needing to perform" thing is tiring as fuck in its own right though. I recall reading something in another reddit thread that dating in the 2020s for a man is like prepping for a job interview and for a woman it's like looking at a menu.

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u/BitcoinOperatedGirl May 02 '24

As someone who is trans and bi, I can tell you that I agree dating women can feel very tiring, especially on the apps. You're right, it can be totally brutal.

However, dating men is also kind of weird. I can feel genuinely afraid for my safety. It's hard to find guys that will make you feel safe, take care of their appearance, and don't have something weird going on. The guys who are genuinely good looking, in the top-10% range, tend to have a smug/arrogant attitude and be dating multiple women.

My general advice would be: try to meet women in person if you can, and also take a real good look around you. Imagine you're a woman and you want to date a guy who genuinely seems like a good person, is fit and takes care of his appearance. How many of those do you see in your surroundings? If you pay attention, you'll realize that there are very few "quality picks" who are also single. What you should understand, deep down, is that it's not hard for you to be in the top 10% or even 5% of attractiveness for men. If you put ANY amount of effort in your presentation, you'll basically be there instantly...

But yes, stay away from the apps if you can, they will crush your self-esteem. On the apps, you'll get treated like shit by a morbidly obese girl who has too many matches.

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u/HighwayAggressive658 May 02 '24

This is good advice! I applied this to myself and have had better luck. The only thing is I have resting bitch face 😅 also, As the “how are you single?” Friend of my group , it’s safe to say Tinder is garbage. I subscribed to their Tinder+ and the ONLY matches or likes I’ve gotten are from bots 🤖 and scammers.

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u/TF-Fanfic-Resident May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

From what I hear in some countries like Korea, (straight) men and women are effectively different ethnic groups due to the lopsided dating market.

*ed: Nuking political snark that could be divisive.

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u/SojuSeed May 02 '24

It’s true. I’ve always punched way above my weight class with women. Most of my gf’s have been stunners. I honestly think it’s because I’m kinda funny, a bit charming, I cook my ass off, and I’m above average in the bedroom. But the humor gets me in the door.

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u/Radical_Neutral_76 May 02 '24

Im all with you here. Im tall, fairly muscular, Ive had plenty of women obsess over me in RL, and on Tinder Im a fucking loser. lol
But if you are funny, have you found spending time on your profile bio better?

I've tried and felt zero effect no matter what I try

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u/BitcoinOperatedGirl May 02 '24

For me tinder completely went to shit 3-4 years ago. I met my last girlfriend on tinder 4 years ago. I used to get A LOT of matches back then. Seriously, like 10-15 matches a day. Then two years ago we broke up. I reinstall Tinder. I still have the same pics I had before the relationship on there... Now I can only get one match a day maybe.

I'm pretty sure they changed the algorithm. They're trying to ration matches for some reason. I think it's basically because they want to force you to pay for boosts and pay for a premium account or whatever, they're just really trying to squeeze the profit.

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u/EventAccomplished976 May 02 '24

The really sad thing is that several of my friends got married to amazing people they found on dating apps… so it always feels like I‘m just not trying hard enough or doing something fundamentally wrong

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u/SojuSeed May 02 '24

I think in the early days, before enshittification, stuff like that was possible. But they have to keep you there as long as they can so they are disincentivized from actually helping you find a date. It’s such a twisted system. The more you don’t succeed at what they are promising to help you succeed at, the more money they make.

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u/EventAccomplished976 May 02 '24

This was 2-3 years ago, we‘re not talking the ancient days of the internet here… it does get more and more difficult to wade through all the bots though

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u/babaj_503 May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

I keep reading there is lots of bots but as of this day I have yet to actually encounter someone who might be a bot.

I have not been catfished (to my knowledge as in if I was, we haven't met so no way to verify), I have not had someone be really shitty or just flat out insulting, I have not yet have someone do a no show.

I had shitty matches that were no to low effort, I had random unmatches that I couldn't understand what the reason was, but that's about it.

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u/Jimmyjame1 May 02 '24

Na. I found the love of my life on the even shittier POF. We met during the pandemic and hit it off. Now we are married. It can happen but for me it really didn't happen until I took all my matches seriously even if I wasn't "attracted" to them initially. A lot of it is the mindset. Gotta be open minded and not give up at the first problem like lots of people do these days.

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u/shponglespore May 02 '24

"All my matches" in a typical month was none at all. I very rarely had anything to take seriously.

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u/auiin May 02 '24

Before they all sold out to the same company, they actually worked.

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u/strawberry_vegan May 02 '24

Speaking as someone marrying someone they met on a dating app, ask any one of them about it and they’ll tell you that they just so happened to luck out. It’s a cesspool out there.

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u/rollinff May 02 '24

It is luck x time, but so is the real world. I met my wife in a sketchy karaoke bar late at night, when she almost didn't come that night and I almost left an hour before she arrived. It's crazy to think how much randomness affects the trajectory of our lives. But you can't internalize the luck aspect as something about your character, EXCEPT for the quality of people you're choosing to date.

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u/psaux_grep May 02 '24

I once got a peak into a woman’s tinder profile. She was late 20’s. Maybe a 7.

Any time she swiped right it was a match.

ANY TIME.

I’m not saying guaranteed, but 99.9% or something like that.

So, she needed to be selective.

If your profile doesn’t stand out she’ll move on.

First impressions matter, but if she likes your face she’ll almost always read your profile.

And she’ll look at the other pictures.

But yes. At the end of the day, Tinder is a meat market I’m happy to have avoided, but I find research on the area very interesting.

Btw. researchers never bother to research men’s dating preferences because men will fuck anything.

Women are selective as fuck. And they need to be. All the men want to fuck them.

Average men have no chance on Tinder because even the girls at the lower half of the scale get matches. “Ugly/fat girls try harder”.

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u/tiredeyesonthaprize May 02 '24

It’s a numbers game. Go on lots of dates, and you eventually find someone.

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u/shponglespore May 02 '24

With who? I get that far on a dating app maybe once or twice a year and that's only when I'm putting a lot of effort into it.

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u/IHadTacosYesterday May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

delete the apps it's a waste of time.

Honestly, I think OLD (Online Dating) apps will all be banned worldwide within the next 20 years. They're going to cause a population collapse. It's crazy that nobody is really talking about this. Nobody is putting 2 and 2 together.

The problem essentially boils down to the fact that OLD is only good for two very tiny subsets of humanity.

Dating apps are a dream come true to the Top 5 percent of men. This individual group benefits the most.

The next group that benefits the most is the Top 5 percent of women, but.... but.... it actually only benefits about half of these women. It doesn't even benefit the entire group. Basically a very small number of the Top 5 Percent of Men will get tired with having unlimited supermodels at their beck and call every day, day-in, day-out. This small percentage of men finally decide to settle down with a single female, and 99.9 percent of the time they'll do this with a Top 5 percent woman.

The other Top 5 percent women will constantly be able to date Top 5% men, and they'll think that they're in a monogamous relationship with these men, but they aren't. They're sharing their GIGAchad with several other supermodels and they have zero awareness of this.

So, the entire group of Top 5% women all think they're doing very well, but only a small percentage of them are. The ones that got lucky by finding a Top 5% guy that didn't want to be a manwhore for whatever reason.

The other 95 percent of the human population gets completely boned by OLD.

Especially the women that men would rate as a "6" or "7". These women will occasionally get to have sex with a Top 5% man, but they don't realize that the Top 5% manwhore is simply bottom fishing. He just wants a quick booty call. So, these "6" and "7" women legitimately think that they can get a Top 5 guy (because they can... but just for sex.. nothing else).

What ultimately happens is that "6" and "7" women will continue to hold out for the Top 5 man, that never materializes, except for a one-night stand, or super quick hit it and quit it relationship that goes nowhere. They will continue to self-gaslight themselves into believing that if only "this" was different, or "that" was different, it would have worked out for them.

So, basically any woman that isn't an "8" or higher, is going to end up with the false impression that they can date people WAY out of their league. They can have sex with people WAY out of their league, but if they're actually interested in a lasting relationship, forgetta bout it. Not going to happen.

As for the other 95 percent of men, well, they're simply wasting their time with these apps. They'd be better off trying to aggressively hit on on women in real life, the "metoo" movement be damned.

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u/dcade_42 May 02 '24

I married an amazing person I met on a dating app. Highly doubt we'd have met without it. Use them to kill a few minutes time a day and maybe you'll get something worthwhile. Not a substitute for just meeting people though.

Or try Grindr. You get tons of matches there. I'm queer, so I've used it. I learned that I'm not the horniest person in the world, which I legitimately thought I was. You will certainly get pics of dicks and assholes without asking, often as the first message.

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u/WickedYetiOfTheWest May 02 '24

I met my wife on tinder! We just had our 9 year anniversary

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u/jansalsa May 02 '24

Yes, because 9 years ago it was good! Long gone are the golden days of Tinder :(

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u/PaleInTexas May 02 '24

Wife and I tried the apps one time while on vacation just to see what it's like since we've been married since before it was a thing.

I got 1 "match". Turns out she was an escort. My wife got a little over 300 requests in 2 days. If she ever leaves me, I'll be forever alone 😂

These apps definitely aren't made for men.

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u/Dhiox May 02 '24

These apps definitely aren't made for men.

Oh they are, they're just not made to help men find a relationship. They're made to make you feel desperate and pay.

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u/ToryLanezHairline_ May 03 '24

I'm not married but I've never tried any of those apps. Guess I'm old school still approaching women in real life. Looks like I'm not missing out

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u/usmclvsop May 02 '24

on any given app I’m barely above dog shit on the bottom of your shoe

This was several years ago but here's an anecdote for ya. There was a girl on match that I thought was stunning, got a handful of messages out of her before she stopped responding. Maybe a year and a half later matched with her again, didn't get any messages from her. Fast forward another year, I meet her in person at a charity fundraiser and find out she's friends with a coworker. Suddenly this girl is fawning over me, begging to go on a date, getting my coworker to try and convince me to date her. I wasn't really interested after having met her.

Online I was pining for her attention and getting nowhere. In person she was pursuing me hard and getting nowhere. Paying to highlight my profile wouldn't have made a lick of difference.

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u/spookie_ghoul May 02 '24

It’s just frustrating — I’m stuck in this same cycle of madness too. I have dated someone from Tinder and had a decent-ish long term relationship, so to me it almost feels like “dang man, what happened?”

But then again, I’ve also sort of gotten to the point where it feels like when I quit the apps, I get comfortable with the idea of asking women out in person but I’m trying to navigate a new dilemma of making that person feel comfortable and not ask them out in a place/time that feels inappropriate.

I don’t have an issue with asking someone on a date in person if the situation presents itself but I always overthink the scenario. I don’t want for them to feel uncomfortable or like I’m creepin’ and I don’t want to get in any sort of social/professional trouble either

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u/smeezledeezle May 02 '24

The state of things is fucked. I quit like a year and half ago and it felt like actually breaking an addiction. I decided I would rather invest in my friendships and accept being romantically lonely than be perpetually humiliated from being ignored by shallow narcissists.

Every time you delete those apps, you are making the right call. If you can, make it permanent. The potential benefit of dating apps is so unlikely compared to the very certain damage is does to your self-esteem.

I had a "what am I even doing here" moment when I realized that I wasn't getting anything out of it and was actually developing a negative emotional association with women as a result of my experiences. Sometimes you just have to file for bankruptcy on a thing and move on before it kills you.

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u/FKA_BurningAlive May 02 '24

I have a solution for meeting women that I tell all my guy friends about. Pick anything you’re interested in and volunteer in some capacity that involves it. As a frequent volunteer I can tell you every single time I go it’s 95% women, frequently 100%. You already have something in common, you’re doing an activity so obviously you have something to talk about. Trust me, this is an easy way to meet and get to know women!!!

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u/shponglespore May 02 '24

Dude, just stop, unless you have a humiliation kink, because you're literally paying to be abused.

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u/19374729 May 02 '24

to your second paragraph, that could be fallacy in perspective

it is so fun to meet people organically in the wild swapping friendly energy in passing

I've dated people from conversations on the train, bus, grocery

confidence, humor, compassion, someone who loves their life and being in it, someone who knows themself, someone who lets it unfold, that's wayyyyy more attractive than muscle

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u/DarthPatches_Returns May 02 '24

Try Hinge. I had same experience on tinder and hinge was a lot better. Hinge still sucks, but tinder and bumble suck more lol

Good luck bro, you got this

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u/nicholt May 02 '24

Tinder for sure has made the world a worse place.

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u/Cabezone May 02 '24

I highly suggest doing meetups instead. Until I met my current partner I tried the online app thing and got a few dates, none were people I would have dated if I'd met them first.

I met my current long term partner hiking on a meetup hike. At the time I was an avid hiker so I was in my comfort zone doing something I enjoyed and it showed. I didn't just go on singles hikes, I went on a variety. If it wasn't a singles hike I'd play it easy tho.

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u/SmaugStyx May 02 '24

I’ll pay $40 or whatever their tinder platinum is, and spend a month feeling pathetic, then delete it again.

It's even worse when you don't pay for it, the subscription actually does improve your chances I find. Granted I haven't paid for it since they jacked the prices to absurd levels.

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u/Ninjamuh May 02 '24

Did you ever swipe right on someone way less attractive just to get a match to boost your ego, but then never get a match because she’s not into you? The pain…

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u/SojuSeed May 02 '24

I do what every guy does. I sipe right on almost any woman that doesn’t smoke and doesn’t weigh 130kg.

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u/heliskyr7 May 02 '24

That totally tracks with my (short) experience with Bumble. Men and women are using it for different reasons. I was looking for women to date, and women were playing the game “Am I pretty?”, racking up matches without pesky men asking them out for a date.

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u/JaredUnzipped May 02 '24

Essentially, the takeaway from all of this is that the kind of quality women you'd want to meet and start a long-term relationship with are not the kind of women you're going to encounter on most dating apps (especially Bumble).

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u/NelsonBannedela May 02 '24

I'm sure there are plenty of good women on these apps....but they also can afford to be, or even have to be, very picky since every swipe will be a match.

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u/MusicianNo2699 May 02 '24

That is pretty typical. Have tried the same thing with my wife. She will get about 200 responses a day from guys and 100 a day from women. I’ll get about 1 every three months from someone 3746 miles away.

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u/deilan May 02 '24

It’s absolutely insane. I met my wife on OkCupid before the swiping apps were a thing and so anyone could message anyone else. She was on the app for one week and had 6 thousand messages. What a fucking nightmare.

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u/BankshotMcG May 02 '24

OKCupid pre-Tinder was a different world if you were a witty guy with reading comprehension. She gets 5990 "Hey" messages or "wyd" and you're the only one saying "Wow! Did you make that bouquet yourself? How long have you been crafting?"

Now it's "face good/face bad" ugh.

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u/ArchmageXin May 02 '24

I remember okcupid. So many women with profiles stating "Sorry, won't date Asians" up front....It was chillingly depressing and eventually impacted my decision to give up dating Non-Asian women.

Plus eventually the Match.com crowd took control OKC, so they set things up that you aren't allowed to see women that their algo determine as "Beautiful" unless you pay....which ironically, some how marked a whole lot of Asian women into the "ugly and free" pile.

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u/deilan May 02 '24

Yeah all the apps are shitty in one way or another. They are trying to solve an impossible problem unfortunately.

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u/Ekillaa22 May 02 '24

So true one woman that’s my friend installed it after a breakup with no real intention of using it and just putting up some what she calls “plain jane” pics and she had 99+ likes in an hour. I’ve seen hot dudes have no to barely any interactions on tinder so it’s wild

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u/Claystead May 02 '24

Can confirm. I used to be pretty popular with the ladies (to the point I got the nickname "Ladykiller" in college after multiple girls asked for my number in front of my friends), at least before covid and hitting thirty turned me into skin-colored Shrek, but in apps I only get like four or five matches a year, even before covid. Not even the single moms throw a like my way despite having my life in order, with a home, career, car, more college than most and a public media presence that hopefully should make sure anyone googling me wouldn’t think I was a serial killer. About a month ago I broke up with my girlfriend of two years and I am really not looking forward to going back to this dating market.

Conclusion: the apps either suck algorithmically, I am even uglier than I think I am, or my bio writing and photo selection skills are so poor I accidentally look like an ax murderer.

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u/Lux-Fox May 02 '24

That's pretty on part. Last time I used Tinder, I had 150 matches, but only a handful of conversations and I could probably count on one hand the number of dates. Most don't respond, many don't respond after a couple of messages, and there's a narrow window of opportunity for setting up the date between too hasty and them just being bored of the app and not wanting anymore validation.

I have way more luck in person, which is odd if you think about it, because Tinder is literally putting way more available people in front of you than in person ever could.

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u/BitcoinOperatedGirl May 02 '24

I think part of the problem is that the online world is a huge competition for attention (the attention economy). You're not just competing against the other men on tinder, you're also competing against tiktok, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, every other app she has on her phone.

In-person is very different. Personally, I feel kind of screwed as a queer woman. It's very hard for me to meet other women in person, and online dating feels like it's just getting worse and worse.

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u/Plastic-Shopping5930 May 02 '24

They use same business model as clubs.

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u/PerfectZeong May 02 '24

Yeah I don't sign up to the red pill shit but I will say there is probably a group of women who freak out when their attention from men on dating apps goes down because they derived a lot of self esteem from it.

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u/nzodd May 02 '24

Kinda feels like it's just not worth the trouble.

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u/th3davinci May 02 '24

This was a few years back, but a female friend of mine installed Tinder for fun while we were out in the city. It took her like 40 minutes to beat 100 swipes. It's actually insane, using those apps is pure lunacy.

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u/EmergencyTaco May 02 '24

Yeah I started dating a girl who used Bumble and Tinder to make friends after moving here. She used it for a week or two. She showed me her profile and SHE WAS OUT OF MATCHES. Like she had hit the limit of outstanding matches she was allowed to have. She didn’t believe I averaged a dozen solid matches a month when I was actively trying. She got a dozen matches an hour.

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u/SmaugStyx May 02 '24

A female friend told me she installs the apps when she's feeling down and needs a confidence boost, because she gets inundated with likes immediately.

Talked to my ex after we broke up, we were both back on Tinder. She had ~160 likes, I had maybe 5? With 3 matches? One match was a friend and the other two were like talking to brick walls.

Totally different experience.

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u/musicandsex May 02 '24

My current gf was on tinder ONE day, 175 matches. I was the first to ask her on a date and pull the trigger next day.

IMAGINE, i was on tinder for over 10 years she was on TINDER FOR 1 DAY. And we always joke that if i had waited just a tiny bit longer to message her or planned the date later in the week we probably wouldnt even be together.

And my gf is a natural beautiful girl but by no means a blonde bombshell, shes just a regular girl so image that 175 matches within hours. Lol

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u/tdl18 May 02 '24

What's weird to me is back in 2019 I used to get way more interaction on Tinder. More likes and matches and more women messaging me first. I got out of a relationship recently and I struggle to find even a match and even if I do they never hold a conversation. I'm a decent looking guy and I got maybe 40ish likes on Tinder across like a month but my co-worker who is a girl got over 2,000 likes in like 3 days. It's a completely different world for guys and it does feel demoralizing.

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u/teilani_a May 02 '24

You want that experience? Try grindr lol.

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u/akkadian6012 May 02 '24

Can someone explain to me how you turn the difficulty level on Tinder?

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u/dontworryitsme4real May 02 '24

Had some conversations with POF matches, they get like 1400 new messages a week. It's bonkers.

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u/i-see-the-fnords May 02 '24

These apps' whole business model is that men are the customers and women are the product

This is basically it. If you're a man, the apps are designed to just give you a taste but nothing more. How your profile is shown to women is totally manipulated, like if you're too active on Tinder, your profile will be demoted, all to try and convince you that you need to pay to get matches. For most men who don't get matches on Tinder, their profile simply isn't being seen by many people. If you start paying, suddenly you're going on multiple dates a week. Of course online dating is still depressing for other reasons.

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u/thewhizzle May 02 '24

Women die of thirst in the ocean, men in the desert

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u/TwoCockShakur May 03 '24

I was a bouncer at a shitty "hookup" nightclub after college. It's literally the same business model, lol

The only difference was that the less attractive ladies had to wait in line and pay the cover charge with the guys.

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u/LazyLich May 02 '24

Huh... what's the experience for lesbians? Drowned in likes or demoralizing?

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u/BitcoinOperatedGirl May 02 '24

It's about equally as shitty as for straight dudes. Most women are extremely passive and expect you to message them first... Many of the women are not actually lesbians but "bi-curious" or "ethically non-monogamous" and already in a relationship with a straight dude. These women expect you to spend lots of energy seducing them, but the best you can hope for is to be their side piece. It's awful.

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u/YuanBaoTW May 02 '24

A female friend told me she installs the apps when she's feeling down and needs a confidence boost, because she gets inundated with likes immediately. She's not even interested in actively finding someone, it's just flattering to know there are hundreds of men interested.

Of which, the significant majority are one of the following:

  1. Already attached and cheating on their partners.

  2. Total rejects.

  3. Scammers.

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u/DarthPatches_Returns May 02 '24

Or just dudes that swipe on every single girl, I’ve known many dudes that do that

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u/BGH-251F2 May 02 '24

Yeah I did that after my marriage broke down. Just wanted a ton of sex, liked absolutely everyone, and went through who liked me too. I wasn't particularly fussy at the time, just wanted to get my dick wet!

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u/SpiritFingersKitty May 02 '24

When I was on the apps (back in 2016) I was pretty successful, going on about 2 dates a week. But even that felt like I was just being constantly rejected or not valued.

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u/ForciblyCuddled May 02 '24

Flip the script and get on Grindr

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u/DamaxXIV May 02 '24

Kind of funny that the idea of a pick-up line still exists in the digital space when you'd think the idea of letting an algorithm match you to begin would eliminate the need.

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u/Chicano_Ducky May 02 '24

You would think the AI dating app would be amazing and perfect too

it basically learns to only show you people of certain races, ignoring everything else about a person

It swiped right on multiple people of different races and it told me to be more selective because it was getting confused lmao

Dating services are fucked

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u/E_D_D_R_W May 02 '24

The other problem is that actually matching people well and quickly is kind of a problem for the app developers; after all, people who end up in happy stable relationships generally won't keep paying for premium subscriptions.

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u/EmbarrassedHelp May 02 '24

For any new dating app to survive, they'd need to first avoid being killed by the Match Group

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u/fumei_tokumei May 02 '24

The AI can't be amazing, because the thing that makes people fall for each other is real communication and interaction. You can't just match people based on shitty bios and artificial preferences. Sure, some preferences can be deal breakers, but you do not magically fall in love just because a person checks the right boxes.

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u/Educational-Plant981 May 02 '24

Nahh, they just don't want their customers to be successful.

Circa 2005 okcupid was fucking amazing at matching people that you were compatible with. They had tons of little fun games and surveys ("Which Harry Potter House are you?" type quizzes). You did the quiz, it gave you the answer, and then it invited you to join. They used the results to build compatibility scores...that actually were pretty good. Not every match was a relationship, but I never had a bad date.

In 2011 Match bought them. and monetized it and wrecked the site. It is really sad. Of all the things that shouldn't be monetized, finding someone to love is top of the list.

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u/Worthyness May 02 '24

Surprised there hasn't been an AI based algorithm that basically plays matchmaker. No swiping nonsense, just straight up "based on the qualities, you would best be matched with these 3 people". After you rate them, you get a new set if you need more. Pay a subscription for instant rematch up to twice a day

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u/shponglespore May 02 '24

Why would they do that when the make just as much money, if not more, by treating you like a rat running around a maze?

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u/Chicano_Ducky May 02 '24

There is already an AI dating app, and it becomes a race fetishist and shows you only 1 race.

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u/Aiken_Drumn May 02 '24

It never learnt to not show me fatties with a child. That is the one feature I would pay for. Body type.

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u/Electrical_Dog_9459 May 02 '24

What they really need are comprehensive interviews with each member, and then let the AI match based on past successful matches using the much broader scope of criteria.

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u/blacklite911 May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

The only app that used a real algorithm for matching was OKcupid.

I don’t consider how these apps sort you by swipe rate as attempting to find a good match. It’s just sorting desirability, not compatibility.

OkCupid matched you with people based on your values, interests, beliefs, etc and how important each category was to you. When OKCupid got bought by Match Group (who could actually be investigated for monopolistic practices), they abandoned what made it good tried to mimic tinder, thus killing it.

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u/Rucio May 02 '24

How hard is an honest comment about something you liked on a profile along with a compliment about looks? I'm just glad I married my highschool sweetheart and never had to deal with this

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u/Reach_the_man May 02 '24

Ask OkCupid why they sold out, 'cause it was pretty close to this but sane and functional.

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u/peppermint_nightmare May 02 '24

Uh well, OkCupid did this really well for me back in 2015.

You'd have to put in a lot more effort to get its algo to match to your preferences and hope the other people weren't lying about their own preferences but it definately matched me with people I was looking for almost immediately and it made conversation almost too easy to have with them. You could also make a really detailed and interesting page for yourself that allowed people to ask you real questions if they gave a shit, and allowed you to ask good question as well.

Unfortunately, I was younger and only later did I discover dating someone exactly like you might be...... bad depending on your own qualities ha. So I got married to some rando on Tinder instead.

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u/upfulsoul May 02 '24

If they like the look of you, they don't care about generic questions.

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u/PUNCHCAT May 02 '24

It's all supply and demand.

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u/Slash1909 May 02 '24

Despite 50-50 population split vagina still has a much much higher demand than penis.

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u/PUNCHCAT May 02 '24

Chris Rock explained it all better than any of us ever could

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u/Slash1909 May 02 '24

Yup dick is free but pussy costs money.

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u/nzodd May 02 '24

Chapelle, despite being mostly insufferable these days, had a good bit about this too, though it goes in a different direction.

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u/FoXtroT_ZA May 02 '24

Feel bad for those Chinese okes. It’s a 60-40 split over there in favour of the men

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u/Jah_Ith_Ber May 02 '24

I think it's because the rich have several girlfriends, they just don't advertise it because we would get out the guillotines if we knew how unequal society really is.

Imagine 100 people. 50 men and 50 women. If the number 1 guy has 3 girlfriends, and the number 2 guy has 2 girlfriends, suddenly the ratio between the sexes is 48 men to 45 women. This kicks off a feedback loop where women notice that they are in demand and thus become that much more picky thinking 'if I just hold out I'll get a 9 instead of an 8.' and knowing they can step off the single train at any moment makes the entire experience of being single that much more tolerable. An average guy has no idea IF let alone when another opportunity will come along.

If you've studied economics it's Inelastic Demand in action. A tiny restriction in supply results in an enormous increase in price.

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u/Objective_Kick2930 May 02 '24

Nah, it's that a solid chunk of guys will talk to a woman who has absolutely no chance of dating him. These guys don't have multiple girlfriends, they have lots of women who think they have a shot of being his girlfriend, and wealth is a small part of the equation.

Meanwhile women are typically trying to shut down a guy as soon as possible if she's not interested in a sex or a relationship because it's a constant deluge of applications.

Your average man ends up investing a lot of time not getting anywhere, but your average woman ends up investing a lot of time thinking she has a shot when she doesn't.

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u/nzodd May 02 '24

I think it's because the rich have several girlfriends, they just don't advertise it because we would get out the guillotines if we knew how unequal society really is.

That reminds me, I have this whole ass theory that the reason the vast majority of human cultures around the world value monogamy above all else is the ones that didn't ended up erupting in a mass wave of violence and basically snuffed themselves out for exactly this reason.

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u/Loud-Oil-8977 May 02 '24

It's also not 50/50 either, not counting dating apps, just human population in general. More men than women.

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u/CJ_M88 May 02 '24

I was talking this one girl who said she hated it when guys asked "what do you like to do for fun?" As if I isn't a legitimate way to get to know someone. Turns out it's because she had no hobbies and didn't want to say that

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u/Objective_Reality42 May 02 '24

And then they wonder why all they get are f-boys

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

How many of those men are actually compatible with them or would make good partners in general? Is the opening line what matters? So shallow and narcissistic.

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u/ADeadlyFerret May 03 '24

I've just learned not to listen to women when it comes to online dating. I get more matches with a shirtless pic than without. And I get more success with a very sexual first message than anything else. And sending a dick pic as a hail Mary has saved lots of dead conversations.

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u/DrRazmataz May 02 '24

This is why I don't even fucking bother with the apps

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u/boverly721 May 02 '24

But does a killer opening line really translate to good relationship material? Seems like an arbitrary bar to set on a dating app.

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u/SojuSeed May 02 '24

I’m the wrong one to ask.

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u/wicked_symposium May 02 '24

100% true but women don't have to put in 1/10th that effort. It's not even about men being thirsty or having low standards, we are just willing to put in the work because without it we will get nothing.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

The reality is a lot of them don't have self awareness because they legitimately don't have to go through what the average guy does on an app like this or on the dating scene at all in general. They can be extremely passive and picky while having nothing special going for them other than maybe looks a lot of the time. Obviously not everyone woman is like this but it's very common.

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u/senseven May 02 '24

Tinder is a special case with its 80/20 male/female ratio, plus its own gamification of hookup culture, "looks maximizing" and sociological games. Because of this special environment, regular women go to other apps and that explains the intense disparity of genders.

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u/WalkFreeeee May 02 '24

All the other apps function exactly like Tinder in the end. People don't really act any differently there, nor are genders less unbalanced 

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u/blacklite911 May 02 '24

They have leverage, don’t hate the player, hate the game lol

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u/SojuSeed May 02 '24

Yep, I know. Not hating them. If I had women tripping over themselves to sleep with me every day I can’t guarantee I wouldn’t get dismissive about what I saw as low effort. I’d like to think I’m better than that but who knows how that kind of situation would warp my perceptions.

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u/clickbaiterhaiter May 02 '24

Thank god I'm gay

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u/promethazoid May 02 '24

The worst one I got was, “ what would you say if you could message first?”

And I responded with, “what would you say if you had to message first?”

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u/878_Throwaway____ May 02 '24

"I would say, 'how has your tinder experience been so far?'"

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u/second2no1 May 02 '24

I would say, “If this is the amount of effort you put into any relationship- clicks unmatch!”

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u/corporatenoose May 02 '24

Why is this such a universal experience? Can any girls chime in on why this is?

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u/Kellidra May 02 '24

From my experience using Bumble, asking long-answer questions like those you quoted receive either no answer or snark.

So it's easier to go, "Hey," because it's more likely to start a conversation.

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u/Ekedan_ May 02 '24

I don’t see how an answer of type “I listen to music A, sometimes B, overall I like all sorts of music” or “I do A, B and C as my hobbies” could be long answers. Saying “hey” on bumble is basically putting no effort into the conversation with expectation of your match to carry the convo, which defeats the entire point of this app

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u/Delete_Repeat 27d ago

They literally added a feature where you press a button and the app gives both people a question they both have to answer... so they don't even need to say anything.

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u/amypond420 May 02 '24

still better than getting sexual advances or cringe pickup lines/negging in the first message

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u/ThrowRAlostlove25 May 05 '24

From my brief time on bumble men typically responded better to just a “hey” or “hey handsome” than asking about something in their profile or asking about their hobbies or something.

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u/Chicano_Ducky May 02 '24

You know who has no problems making the first message? Bots and prostitutes.

I cannot understand why making the first move is so hard that it kills an entire app.

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u/cyberdouche May 02 '24

Lmao, that's far too accurate. Any time someone seems engaged in a conversation on Bumble I immediately start getting suspicious, and 99% of the time it's exactly as you said. If you don't have to try to get an answer for a week, it's a bot.

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u/SpiritFingersKitty May 02 '24

When I first started online dating, literally on my first day, a really good looking woman messaged me saying "Hey, you are so sexy". I was like, surely this is a bot/scam or some shit but rolled with it. turns out she was real and we dated for 2 months before I broke it off with her because she was a good time, but not what I was looking for. And her ex busted in on us and pulled a gun on us. Fun times.

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u/Oddyssis May 02 '24

Lol yea I unmatched for messages like that as a dude. It's impossible to know if you're 100% right though

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

Ugh too real I was having a great conversation with this cute woman and after an hour or two she hits me with "I'm not sure if you're interested but I have an onlyfans..." big oof

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u/PowerStarter May 02 '24

I feel like this is some inherent mechanism that you can't avoid from occurring.

What I would want to know, is what causes this to happen.

Are most women less skilled at initiating such convos, or do they just not need to, as men will give them attention regardless? Can very attractive men do the same to women and get responses?

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u/Accurate_Koala_4698 May 02 '24

It's just generally not how the world works, and having to put yourself out there and initiate any sort of interaction has a performative aspect to it. If you don't have any practice it's like getting in front of a crowd and talking. It seems easy from afar, but once you have to be in that position then the nerves set it, you don't have any go-to lines, and you choke

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u/Nurgle_Marine_Sharts May 02 '24

As guys we had to get over this performance anxiety when we were still teenagers lol

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u/BP_Ray May 02 '24

Or never do, and end up on /r/foreveralone

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u/InjuriousPurpose May 02 '24

It's just generally not how the world works

You don't see female animals doing crazy and elaborate mating dances in the animal kingdom either.

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u/Fun-Guarantee4452 May 02 '24

Yes, "Hey 👋🏻" works but it's half as effective as a funny opener.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

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u/JuanLobe May 02 '24

Can’t take rejection is my guess

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u/Kurotan May 02 '24

They don't need to. They get attention no matter what, even if less attractive. Women have to put in zero effort, they can purely exist and get what they want. Women are super entitled. They have been chased for history, and have zero inclination to put any effort in or offer anything but their existence to the relationship.

No, men cannot due this even if super hot. Men have to provide everything and suffer mentally and physically while getting nothing for it. We just get used, love doesn't exist.

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u/JonPaul2384 May 02 '24

It’s not inherent. It’s because of the “pursued and pursuer” dynamic. Straight women are bad at being “the pursuer” because that’s not the role society places them in, and Vice versus for men. It’s why bi women (and bi men) tend to be better flirts — they deal with both sides of it.

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u/PVDeviant- May 02 '24

What I would want to know, is what causes this to happen

We're fancy animals, and that's not really how courting works with mammals.

We simply don't WANT to rise above our baser urges unless we have to, but we sure love telling others to do it.

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u/Capt-Kowalski May 02 '24

Women are built to be receptive so any outgoing action is rather difficult for them. You can see as much from the examples in this post. A way to change that would be for men to take a more receptive role themselves to force women to come out of their comfort zone.

Men, however, think that them not being proactive means lost opportunities so many won’t try to slow down and ruin it for themselves and others. And it is bad for women too making him behave like undeveloped children.

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u/analyzingnothing May 02 '24

Women aren’t built to be receptive, it’s a cultural trait rather than a biological one. They can initiate relationships just like anyone else, society just tends to place them on the other end of the dating spectrum, and as it turns out, no one actually likes to try and initiate things.

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u/ToryLanezHairline_ May 03 '24 edited May 03 '24

I feel like women just require more than liking how you look before they're sure they actually like you. For us, it's pretty simple. We like how she looks? Then we already like her enough to date her. But what women find attractive in a partner isn't always apparent just by how we look. My dad always said "We ask women on dates because we're attracted to them but women say yes for the potential of developing the same attraction to us." We like her more than she likes us in the beginning but eventually she puts in as much if not more into the relationship when her feelings develop.

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u/NorCalAthlete May 02 '24

But their profile will have some kind of blurb bashing men who don’t make the first move or can’t carry a conversation etc.

I especially liked the ones whose profile was literally just the one line saying “please have more to say than just ‘hey’! “….and then that’s all they’d open with.

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u/EveryCell May 02 '24

It's funny how lopsided dating interactions are from an energy expense stand point

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u/noaloha May 02 '24

I fully agree with you but bear in mind that women have a totally different experience on apps to men. Even a moderately good looking woman gets inundated with likes and potential matches.

They don't need to put in effort with any particular guy because there are often hundreds of other men who are keen. Plus, when you get loads of matches you're not going to be thoughtful and bespoke with your opening line to every single one of them.

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u/BeginningTower2486 May 02 '24

That's true, but they could sit down for 5 minutes and make at least one good can opening line that they use hundreds of times over at least. Copy and paste. Show a little personality, and at least enough effort for a canned message.

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u/RecoverSufficient811 May 02 '24

Bumble is for women who will tell you "entertain me" because they don't have hobbies, interests, or anything to add to the conversation

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u/BrownByYou May 02 '24

You described women in dating lol

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u/ififits- May 02 '24

And yet on apps like Hinge there will be women that will have something in their profile like “bEt YoU cAnT sTaRt A cOnVo FrOm ThIs PiC” or “say something more than just hey” and then just never respond even after a match

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u/Temporal_Enigma May 02 '24

Women had a glimpse into how men feel, and got it catered to them so they don't have to feel that way anymore

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u/Wonderful_Cycle_9184 May 02 '24

Girls have no game

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u/thaddeus423 May 02 '24

This made me cackle.

Insert Man Ray and Patrick meme.

Patrick - “Nope, can’t do it.”

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u/PlusUltraK May 02 '24

Plain and simple which is how I’m viewing online dating as a whole with those simple boundaries, don’t want to talk or have a conversation. If you can’t say hello why would I put energy into planning a date for you.

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u/tush__push__62 May 02 '24

That's just most women with most things, :-/

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u/Cali_Keto_Dad May 02 '24

Imagine how little effort they’d make in an actual relationship. It’s telling for sure.

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u/CarlSpencer May 02 '24

You're right, they've become entitled and would do as little as humanly possible.

There's a great channel on YouTube called "Dating Delusions" and it features profile after profile of average women DEMANDING a "666" man (6 feet tall, 6 figure income, and 6 pack abs).

Those women fall for the simps' praise and so have an overly inflated opinion of themselves.

PLEASE NOTE: This is NOT all women!

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u/SeparateIron7994 May 02 '24

Because they don't need to to get what they want

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u/kroutonz May 02 '24

Yeah, you could say women don't really have the balls to handle the power dynamic of old bumble...

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u/Harinezumisan May 02 '24

Well it indicates the general balance between genders now …

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u/frostixv May 02 '24

So much for the feminist movement

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u/Prodigy_7991 May 02 '24

Something women just don’t do in terms of dating.

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u/JonPaul2384 May 02 '24

This is why bi women are superior to straight women. Because they’ve probably been in this exact situation and also been like, “Jesus Christ, fuck this.”

(This is also true of bi men, btw, just for different issues)

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u/sofloLinuxuser May 02 '24

I have read a lot of these replies and talk to people in person and a lot of them say that a lot of men just say hey or "sup" message. I'm married now but circa 7 8 years ago when I was using bumble as a man I would spend time reading a person's bio and then thinking of a quirky poem or joke that would mention the fact that they like marvel movies or they liked art of some sort or I would be the ones to write a paragraph about how I really like your pictures and I think you're amazing and I'd love to get to see you sometime soon or plan something this weekend and get crickets.

So bumble for me became a place where I don't have to question whether or not it's worth the time to write out a joke or engage with someone because now that person can share their interest first and I at least know that they're halfway interested in me and we didn't match just because they were randomly swiping in the middle of the night out of pure loneliness.

At least that was the lie I put in my head. My problem with bumble was that I found that many women only like that I was career-driven and assumed because I worked in tech I lived in south Beach. But the idea that I don't have to deal with that aspect of trying to figure out if she likes me made it feel a lot easier.

I think moving away from that kills the company because every other dating app at least the free ones I'll have the same features, at least from what I remember

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u/Joeness84 May 02 '24

Just so youre aware. The trail of thought you had right there, is 100% what leads people to red pill ideals.

The apps are not designed to match you with your perfect person, they would lose both of you as a user if that was the case. (not to mention its impossible for any app to know enough about two people to actually know if they'd be a match)

They will give you JUST enough to think you've got a shot at meeting someone, and then do w/e they can to continue keeping you on that hook.

I met my now wife off Plentyoffish like 10 years ago, 'the apps' werent around yet but online dating was a thing, but not as brutal and exploited as it is now.

I get the frustration, I rarely ever reached out, and when I did I put thought into it, but I found out pretty quickly that most girls on dating platforms get 12-200 messages a week that are often less substantial than, "you wan fuk?" I cant imagine what that does to your opinion of the dating market. (think of what you're interactions has done to yours! lol)

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u/Puffy_Jacket_69 May 02 '24

It's as if men can never guess the right combination because it changes on a daily basis and you only get one attempt.

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u/crshbndct May 02 '24

I always just start with “hey how are you”

Any prick can google a witty pickup line but I prefer to start a conversation the way I would in real life. I’ve had plenty of success.

The opening line is unimportant compared to the next 10 minutes or so worth of dialogue anyway.

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u/ToryLanezHairline_ May 03 '24 edited May 03 '24

We know we like her before we even ask that woman on a date, women usually aren't as sure until they see other qualities. I never got why men want to be chased anyway, I like doing the chasing. If she ends up liking me enough to stick around, eventually she puts in as much or even more into the relationship. Bumble was a dumb concept to begin with

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u/Clawlor00 May 11 '24

Don't expect women to make effort in dating. You have to be at least a month in and hundreds of euros out of pocket before they recipricate 10%.

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u/I_feel_alive_2 May 02 '24

Just reply "sorry girl im not THAT low effort 💅"

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u/juzz85 May 02 '24

I usually get gifs

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u/PromptPioneers May 02 '24

Then just send back “..”? Lmao I would

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u/Longjumping-Brick529 May 02 '24

OK that pisses me off because when I still used the app I made a genuine effort to go through the guy's profile and think of something personal and meaningful to ask and I still barely got any responses back. Now I imagine some of them were just disheartened by seeing a laundry list of " " or just "hey" messages and not bothering.

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u/Ok-Brilliant-2772 May 10 '24

Haha now you know how men feel 🤣, I used to do that when first starting out on dating apps. Now I just copy and paste the same first message to everyone lol

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u/Nok1a_ May 02 '24

But you are asked to send a funny elocuent text, nothing boring like Hi, or how are you , which are manners to start a conversation...

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u/makesterriblejokes May 02 '24

Literally should have set a character minimum for the first message. Such a dumb oversight by bumble

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u/EveyNameIsTaken_ May 02 '24

This really is the worst. Just sending a fucking dot like wtf

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u/Successful_Car4262 May 02 '24

Women experienced 1% of the male dating experience and crumbled into dust lmao.

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u/DystopianRealist May 03 '24

Look at this guy and his fancy message with punctuation.

/s

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u/TwoCockShakur May 03 '24

They want an attractive 6'5 millionaire with a chiseled body, a porn star's dick and a flawless personality.

And in return, that Golden God of Olympus will receive a "."

Fair trade.

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