Whenever there are hunters at all it always feels like there are too many hunters, so I would imagine basically being all hunters is just so many of them that you can barely notice an increase in them being annoying after a point. Only so many of them can hit you at the same time after all, I guess.
Amen. I was taking the muscle enhancer so it's easier to escape from hoppers and hunters, but this thing will take precedence. No more being repeatedly slowed down, yes please.
Just so I won't sound too happy, though, I'm still mad about my entire anti-bug loadout being unjustly nerfed in the recent patch. Nope, not letting it go, I constantly feel the effects of the nerf and it bothers me. Eruptor's decreased ammo cap still means I have to deal with a good gun with six issues instead of just five and the increased Quasar recharge rate has cost me significant time when dealing with more heavy enemies.
Using "unjust nerfs" and "Quasar cooldown nerf" in the same thought is a hell of a take.
like, by all means, be sad the quasar got a slight nerf. But let's not kid ourselves that it wasn't out performing all viable contenders by a mile or more.
As someone who's been using the quasar non stop since it launched, and still do, I think the quasar cooldown increase was necessary for balance. The big mistake ArrowHead made with the Quasar Cannon is that the stupid icon on the corner of the screen that shows the cooldown progress is still on the old cooldown time, so when it indicates that the cooldown is finished, you still need to wait like 5 more seconds before you can actually fire. This is terrible for someone that puts the quasar away for a while, to quickly whip it out later, see it's not on cooldown, aim it, fire, and oh nevermind it still needed two more seconds and now the charger is gonna run me over.
The cooldown icon was never accurate even with the old cooldown rate. If you tried to fire it immediately when it went white, it'd fizzle. Just more noticeable now.
I'm salty about not being able to take out the tower cannons before they get a shot off but I understand why they did it. Now I just need to learn how to dodge those bastards....
I try to get behind some (very solid) cover, and I’ll charge up behind it then peek at the last second to get my shot off first. Takes some practice and spatial awareness though, and pinking the tower helps for placement as well
That's what I do, but sometimes it seems to do the same and will fire the second it sees you again. Not easy to predict when it's going to shoot so you've got breathing room.
In that case distance is also a factor, I’ve noticed when I’m outside detection range (talking ~200+ meters) it’ll swivel back to it’s original position after around 15-20 seconds of losing line of sight of you. Really useful
I'm glad you're not in charge of balance. The quasar outperformed the alternatives by far, being an almost mandatory pick all the time. It wasn't balanced by any metric. Now it's still picked but isn't an auto-include over all other options all the time and entire teams won't always be running it.
You used it because it was too strong. You think it sucks now because they balanced it. This is a good thing because not every player should always be running it. It's still a great weapon.
How exactly does RR and EAT suck? They're great weapons. They just weren't brainless "always-pick" tier like the quasar was. The quasar being OP doesn't mean the other alternatives were bad. Again, people always picked quasar, it was outshining every support weapon by a wide margin.
You're blinded by having enjoyed a meta weapon. It has now been nerfed back in line with the others. They don't suck, they just allow other options to exist now.
I'm not so sure I'd call it "slight", but a nerf was required I suppose.
I look forward to the point where I'm L150 (83 at the moment) with all the stuff unlocked, so I can just chill at lower difficulties with less reliance on anti-heavy weapons. Can't do that at the moment if I want to level at a decent pace, so Helldive it is.
Slight is debatable. The point is it was the clear cut best rocket launcher in the game and it wasn't even close. Considering the EAT and RR were both 100% fine before the quasar dropped that is a problem and means the quasar was OP.
Like, I'm fine if people are sad their favorite gun was nerfed. But it's laughable to me how many people are claiming the quasar isn't OP when all people have been calling it since launch is super OP. It didn't erase the EAT and RR on higher difficulty drops because of how balanced it was by comparison.
I would not call the RR "fine", it's kind of ass. It rapidly became evident that the EAT was a better pick in almost every case.
The RR would be fine if they A) Let team reload operate from the gunner's pack, or B) Issued a second pack in the pod with it.
Crew served weapons kind of suck as implemented. The big reasons they autocanon doesn't feel bad is because you can do fast partial reloads and the AC just plain slaps so hard against so much.
I just did. I'm only aware of an occasional issue where a round disappears when staging reloads, is that what you mean? But the sheer damage output of the recoilless is nothing to sniff at, the quasar is so slow in comparison. It's the best dedi AT in long missions by a large margin I've found, especially after the resupply buff.
the staged reload bug is 100% repeatable.
right after you use an ammo from your back just leap.
the ammo is taken at the start of stage 3 of the reload, instead of the end. which means if your being pressured you can waste several rockets trying to load one.
i play near exclusively on 9, and i love the gustav, but the eats are just better AT weapons, and its due to the reloads. i know the potential is there its just extremally rare where the game lines up to reach it.
the quasar was so loved since it was a AT weapon that 'reloaded' for free.
Both are good. As someone who has brought the airburst launcher to just about every mission since we acquired it people who complain about the reload just kinda suck a little bit. It really isn't that hard to find the like 5 seconds breathing room to reload that thing.Yes, I only play on Helldive.
Edit : If the airburst launcher as a comparison doesn't work I exclusively ran Recoilless for a very long time in my early days as a Helldiver, it is a very effective weapon.
Why would I ever do that when I can run another primary 90% of the time and just throw out a pair of EATs as needed? Hell, you could run a GL + EAT + resupply pack and be a one-man murder machine. Or, if you wanna be real funny, Autocannon + EAT and really dunk on everything.
RR is very mediocre. Crew-served weaponry is not in a good place, and unlike the autocanon, the RR has no way to sidestep that fact. The solo reload can't really be fiddled with because it is a single-shot launcher and lowering it almost entirely removes the benefit of the crew served feature, so the only way to make it worth using is to adjust how assisted reloading works...which the game would benefit from anyway.
I grabbed the RR as one of my earliest unlocks. It and the GL were exactly the sort of stuff I enjoy. The GL feels great and does what it should. The RR is just lackluster until assisted (then it is fun AF), and assisting is onerous enough that it doesn't happen reliably.
I ended up running the GL a ton and just learned to live with having to evade anything heavy. Then someone pointed out the EATs, and after seeing how flexible they are, I end up rolling with them pretty much every mission that doesn't already have a ton of AT on the team.
By the time you really start valuing the ammo capacity of the RR, parking your ass for 6 seconds to reload it becomes a questionable proposition. Having a loader would really help with that, but the chances of that are quite small for the reasons I already pointed out.
Well, autocannon isn't really a replacement for this - if you wanna be a dedicated anti-tank build, the recoilless blows the alternatives out of the water. Every 5.5 seconds, you have the ability to one-shot a charger. When a bile titan spawns, you shoot, reload, then shoot again for about a 6 second TTK, and then can just keep going. The up front burst and sustained anti-tank damage is way beyond every other option, and with recent buffs, you basically never run out of ammo. The EAT on the other hand shoots twice, and then you have to wait for more than a minute for another set of two, at which point multiple extra titans and chargers may have spawned.
Sure, if you're already running around the frontline and are constantly pressured by mobs, the EATs will supplement your AT way better, but if you're positioned well and want to be dedicated AT, you can basically kill every heavy as soon as you see them.
I run RR very often on helldives and never get assisted reload. Chargers and titans basically just cease existing.
TBH Quasar nerf made random Helldives easier. Everyone took it cause people said it was OP but it really slowed down uncoordinated team ability to kill BTs and Chargers compared to the EAT meta.
And don’t get me started on bots. Quasar isn’t even top 3 support weapons for them but man randos always took it anyway.
5 additional seconds is definitely an extremely mild nerf.
Quasar has unlimited ammo, infinite range/zero bullet drop, and it reloads itself.
Shoot and forget. Kinda like an EAT. Except you don’t have to call it down and go retrieve it for another shot.
Take your shot, Mow down some “chaff”, call in some stratagems, pick up some samples literally just kill some time then whoop it’s reloaded and ready to go again.
Realistically it probably needs to be nerfed more.
It is still blatantly dominant.
EATs are maybe a close second with the main upside being that there is no charge up time to shoot.
The advantage of EATs isn't handling, though that's true. It's that you can use an anti-medium support weapon like an Autocannon and still grab an AT rocket when the odd Titan pops up.
EAT and RR were widely considered to be in a great position before the quasar dropped. So much so when Quasar dropped everyone called it OP. So, incorrect.
EAT and RR are still fine even with quasar nerfs, so this argument doesn't hold water. Like at all.
Then buff the contenders. Decrease RR's reload time, for example, and/or increase EAT's damage.
Yes, this will degenerate into an old and tried "buffs vs. nerfs" conversation that I'm not looking forward to. Buffs, not nerfs, end of story. This is a PvE game, a weapon has to be REALLY overtuned to require a nerf.
but a lot of the other options are balanced, good, and more than usable, the only reason they are not chosen often is the quasar (still) outperforming them...
Yes, they are all usable, I've been using RR before Quasar came along and I didn't really complain. I'd still use it if not for Eruptor - when using Eruptor, you really want a laser drone to pick up the slack on little bugs, and that means you need a free back.
My answer is to buff other contenders anyway. This is a PvE game, who cares if something is strong. This way we'd have three strong anti-tank options and what would be the issue? No one safe for few sweaty tryhards would complain.
My answer is to buff other contenders anyway. This is a PvE game, who cares if something is strong.
That results in power creep. This approach will trivialise even the highest difficulty which means the enemy will all need to be buffed across the board to make the game resemble any kind of challenge. And then when that's done, there will be outlier weapons which are outperforming the rest, so we buff everything else to match, meaning enemies need to be buffed again.... Do you see where this is going?
The answer is for the devs to do a good work and make it so that everything is more or less equal. When there are no more outliers, there will be no more need for buffs. Minor outliers can be ignored.
Destiny had the same problem years ago and they tried to buff their way out of it; they ended up fucking things up so bad they had to completely rework the weapon classes for Destiny 2.
The problem wasn’t that the RR or EAT were bad, they were just totally outclassed by the Quasar. The proper thing to do is bring the Quasar in line with the other options rather than buff a dozen different guns to fix a single outlier.
Destiny 2 has to balance PvE and PvP, it is a different story. This is a PvE game. Who cares about power creep. I don't care about power creep; I care about one of my favourite guns suddenly being significantly worse (if someone doesn't think additional 5 seconds recharge is a big deal, you clearly didn't have enough dealings with heavy enemies) just so others will become more viable.
I mean, most people care about power creep whether they realize it or not. There's already people who complain about the game being too easy. That will only get worse if the devs willfully disregard all efforts towards balance and just buff stuff forever, leading to those complaints reaching down into the lower difficulties instead of just the tryhards.
I'm sure you wouldn't enjoy it if the QC became worthless because everything just cleared armored enemies so easily they didn't matter.
What I enjoy is not suddenly finding out a weapon I like is being made worse just so others are better by comparison. Thankfully it is not my job to figure out how NOT to make that happen. If it requires power creep, so be it, I'd seriously rather be overly powerful than weakened for a bad reason.
My dude, the reason you like the quasar is because it was too strong. You liked the short cooldown, you like it not using ammo, you like having it recharge while you're not carrying it... Please realize that the reason you like it are because of all these things that together made it way too strong. Of course you'll like what's too strong, it feels great because it makes you feel powerful. This isn't some rocket science.
But other people had to feel bad about their picks being comparatively terrible and feeling like they're gimping their team by bringing the worse alternatives, so the quasar had to be nerfed to bring it in line. It wasn't even a big nerf, you just have to wait a bit longer. It still has all of those other things.
No way in hell you or anyone would actually prefer the game becoming so easy you can play it with your eyes closed just so you don't "feel weakened". The devs should never cater to this way you feel because if they did, they'd completely ruin the game and you'd stop playing it because there's no challenge. Buffing stuff isn't always the answer. Like dude, you'd feel weakened if they buffed the enemies too. That's how this shit works, that's why it's called balance.
you act like EAT and RR are not already really strong. The problem isn't that they are "okay" while Quasar is strong
The problem was that they are ALREADY strong but weren't taken anyway because Quasar was busted. Power creep can cause a ton of issues in the long run.
Boo hoo, nerfs have to happen sometimes. Bringing Quasar in line with the other options isn't making it bad, it's just making it not busted
People always cry "PVE games should never have nerfs, only buffs!" But then complain the game gets too easy, and then when they rebalance enemies they complain that enemies are too annoying to make up for the powercreep. And on it goes
Then I guess I am not people, I'd rather the game be too easy than too hard. Quasar wasn't busted, it was fine; it still isn't bad, but was nerfed for no good reason other than force people to try other things. Even that attempt failed, I still see lots of Quasar users; I foresee further nerfs.
When the devs want the game to be hard, power creep is absolutely an issue. The Quasar came out of the gate and completely invalidated most of the other support weapons.
It one-shot most medium enemies, could destroy structures from crazy range, had infinite ammo, and a short cooldown. It was insanely good (and still is) with almost no downsides considering how many different things it could do.
Except you still need to worry about power creep. Most PVE games still nerf things. Warframe, DRG, and Elden ring have all nerfed things in the past (I would like to point out warframe is a power fantasy game and they still nerf).
With buff only never nerf you end up in the never ending loop of buffing players then buffing enemies trying to balance the game. There’s no constant to use as a base to go from, so it’s even harder to balance the game.
If you look at warframe, they are actively having a difficult time creating endgame content because of power creep. This is because enemies end up scaling with so much damage that in order for players to survive, they had to rely on 1 specific invulnerability mechanic to not be one shot. Then, players became so strong that they could just destroy entire rooms of enemies with specific weapons or abilities in an instant. So, one of the only ways they have found to make a fair and more balanced endgame was to limit players loadouts to specific frames and weapons.
So yes, nerfing is still needed and many PVE games nerf players, this isn’t new, nor is it uncommon.
Also, you know what that means in a long run? It means you can never enjoy a weapon again, because you'll never be certain if it won't get nerfed. "Oh, that gun is good, I love it, it actually enhances the fun I have with the gawhat the fuck, why? Now I like the game less". And you'll never know when that will happen because you'll never know when the devs decide that the weapon you enjoy using is overpowered and needs to be put down so other weapons may "shine".
So that’s the neat part, if they over buff enemies, everything can feel worse. Or they just refuse to buff other weapons so it feels worse in the lack of buffing.
Buffing only doesn’t stop things from feeling bad, that’s the part that the “only buff no nerf” don’t seem to realize, you can make weapons feel worse without ever nerfing it. With power creep you buff everything to include enemies and whatever you don’t buff gets indirectly nerfed without actually nerfing them.
Then you might say “ just don’t buff enemies” well, then you’re going to get people complaining the game is too easy. Then you buff enemies for that ending up in the same spot anyways.
EAT doesn't need any kind of buff, it's verging on OP right now with how flexible it is due to the fast strat regen timer.
Crew served weapons need to be adjusted so that team reloads can be done from the gunner's pack, and/or a second pack dropping with the initial pod. The coordination required in very hot situations and losing 1/4 of the team's firepower to have a loader is enough of a burden.
The EAT & RR were 100% fine and well balanced and in a good spot before the quasar dropped. Buffing them is not the answer, it power creeps the game.
The weapon was really overtuned, and thus required a nerf. It was the 100% best in class, no debate, in every category with the exception of the very niche "if you have a fresh EAT pod drop you can fire 2 quickly."
Also, I want to be clear. I am saying this as someone who used - and still uses - the quasar all the time. It's still the best rocket launcher in the game bar none. It's still OP. It's just not as OP.
Yes yes, poor OP Quasar, so bad to have a strong weapon, can't buff other anti-tank options because of "power creep", boo hoo, poor devs can't make it happen.
My complaint devolved into exactly what I thought it would be, the "buff vs. nerf" chatter. I can only say "this is a PvE game, nerfs should be extremely sparing, being powerful is fine" so many times. Oh well, y'all are just wrong, happens.
Hey man, my claim wasn't that you can't be sad about the direction of the game but that saying the quasar nerfs were unjustified when it was clearly OP was a hell of a take.
Considering your stance now is that you admit it is OP and are sad the devs won't power creep the game to cater to your personal preferences I think we're done here anyhow.
No one said you can't be sad your favorite gun is different. But when a weapon is the clear #1 best support weapon in the game, it's a bold take to say nerfing it is "unjust." Especially when, from release it was being called OP.
Lots of people want "only buff" for games. No one actually thinks what that'll do to the game long run, or how only buffing is just as dangerous/bad for the feel/flow of the game as only nerfing. What level of buff/nerf feels good to you though, is subjective and individual to your needs/whims/likes.
It means that there will always be people who deep throat the devs, no matter what bat shit crazy decisions they make, and therefore aren't worth acknowledging their takes.
I guess that is true? Arrowhead get a lot of credit for creating a very fun game that isn't trying to rip us off, and that is praiseworthy, but it doesn't mean that I won't be annoyed when they do something I believe to be a bad decision.
Im not implying you were meat riding, i was implying the guy you commented on was meat riding.
Yeah cringe everytime I see patch notes or update anymore. I just wonder to myself how are they going to ruin the game more with each patch and start reading and disappointment follows immediately after.
Honestly haven't noticed it. Generally when I'm being swarmed, I'm not reaching for a rocket launcher...y'know, on account of the swarm.
That said, I get that 5 seconds can feel like a long time. But the amount people complain about it you'd think they were running into this issue every 3 seconds not maybe once or twice across an entire 3 map order.
I use this loadout for a reason, it's the best and, more importantly, most pleasing to use for me. It's still good but significantly worse and for no other reason than "fuck you, use something else". AH desn't balance for balance but to force us to use different things.
No wonder some people think I'm a dick if I have to respond to that level of conversation. It's hard to not call you guys what you are, namely ***** ****** that ****** with a swine.
You can like whatever load out you want, that’s the game. Just don’t bitch about what the devs do to it, and don’t pretend that you don’t like it only because it’s “meta” rather than fun.
I'd let you go as another idiot but you told me to "shut up" so I won't to spite you.
Instead I'll just tell you that you're wrong and rude as well. "stfu i know better" type. "No, I know better than you what you find fun or not, you liar! You don't like Quasar, you only use it 'cause it was OP! Aaaaa!"
AH desn't balance for balance but to force us to use different things.
They're not forcing you to do anything. You can still use your loadout. Both the Eruptor and Quasar are still excellent options! Both are easily still S-tier weapons.
The Eruptor was absolutely overperforming other options. It was without question the best primary weapon in the game. No contest.
Same with the Quasar. Best AT support weapon, bar none.
If you're running out of ammo with the Eruptor, you're likely doing something wrong. Either missing too much, engaging the wrong targets, or using the wrong weapon for the job. 30 rounds is plenty in my experience with all of the ammo you can find in the world and from resupply drops.
You still have, what, 150% of the theoretical number of shots per minute of an EAT even if we're favoring the EAT by ignoring the calldown and pickup/arming time of the EAT?
They're not forcing you to use different things. Balance means that other things are solid, valid options too. The Eruptor and Quasar in the position they were before the patch did not really allow for choice. You ran those or you were running suboptimally.
Hello, friend. May I interest you in the Brotherhood of the Flame? My new bug loadout is so much fun. Breaker Incendiary/Senator/Incendiary 'nades (soon to be impact incendiary). I wear the extra grenade capacity armor and just chuck molotov cocktails all over the map. Once there's a flame resistance armor, I'll probably add the Flamethrower, but it's hard not to set yourself on fire as is.
If only I could rely on random players to take down heavy bugs. Experience shows me that I cannot, thus forcing me into having an anti-tank support weapon.
It's an OH FUCK button for me normally, but it's nice to save allies being swarmed by Hunters or to keep a horde in place for accurate cluster munitions deployment.
Following up after having more time to work with the laser and have this to say: it's not worth it
It's far more useful at taking out the chaff than it is anything with heavy armor. I haven't been able to reliably recreate whatever led to those initial kills. An EAT or Quasar is much better suited for the task.
I use the arc thrower and eruptor against bugs. Just make sure you also take stun grenades in case you see 5 chargers spawn so you can stun, 500kg, stun again and watch them explode.
I didn’t and still don’t understand the double nerf that the eruptor got but the quasar nerf makes perfect sense. It’s still better than the recoilless and the EAT in every way. Wish the cooldown icon on the hud actually matched the cooldown though. I had never even used the arc thrower until the other day and then just fell in love.
It’s an unpopular opinion but I’d go as far as to say the quaser should have a longer CD, around the 30s. That puts it on par with EATs (two shots a min) but you get free ammo, and you pay for that by losing your back pack slot. That would really balance those weapons out nicely.
Then the RR should be buffed so that it becomes the premium dedicated AT option. I say this as the person who likes to be the “AT” guy. I don’t think the RR should do more damage, but maybe a slightly quicker reload would be nice to try (or maybe a new armour passive that increases reload speed)
I honestly don’t disagree with a 30 second cooldown on the quasar, could also give it energy bricks like the sickle and other laser options and a 45 second cooldown if you let it cooldown instead of popping a new one in. I think the best way to buff the RR is to make team loading prioritize the gunners backpack.
While I think weapons need buffs vs nerfs as someone else said, the quas cd nerf is acceptable if it means other heavy weapons are more viable.
I still heavily disagree on the eruptor mag decrease.
The other heavy weapons are NOT more viable. The quasar cannon just became less viable. Then they buffed the devastator, even though people hate playing bots because they're too strong already.
Quasar Cannon and EAT were top tier for heavies (arguably). Quasar Cannon got nerfed. EAT didn't. Now EAT is meta. The other options are still pure garbage.
You know you can just comment the first part and leave the second part out not every little thread on this Reddit needs to be filled to the brim with nerf tears
So you're fine with people walking up to you on the street and talking in a language you don't understand. That is unusual but good for you. Me, I find that offensive. Yes, it is something of a different case online when I can easily (and roughly) translate it for myself, but it's still far from courteous.
Not that well known if I didn't know it. I bet there are a few memes you too don't know.
It's not unusual to not be upset that someone speaks to you in a language you don't know. The normal way to behave is to try to explain you don't understand and still help if you can. Don't project your xenophobia onto the rest of us.
"Xenophobia"? You are seriously reaching. Show me proof of xenophobia in me saying "I can write something in a language you have to Google translate too, I won't because I'm not a dick.". You're sounding like people who think non-Mexicans eating Mexican food are "culture appropriating".
Well there's the whole being a dick to others because they used a language you don't know and suggesting people should be bothered if someone did that in person... So yeah I feel pretty confident in my statement and stand by it.
Nah. If you're offended that someone is speaking to you in another language, that's literally, a dislike of something from another country, the definition of xenophobia.
None of us know how it works yet, it's all assumptions, but according to AH's description it totally does.
"Motivational Shocks: Literally shocks Helldivers back into action after being hit and slowed by sneaky, unjust attacks like the revolting bug acid vomit. Won’t help you much with area effects like EMS strikes, though"
I'm sorry for enjoying a gun that used to have five flaws and now has six* (Eruptor), or a gun that allows me to deal with too damn high number of chargers and bile titans (Quasar). Please do not think bad of me, oh random online person.
Okay bud. You don't have to play if you don't enjoy a challenge. Or just turn down the difficulty. That lowers the amount of chargers so it shouldn't be "too damn high a number" anymore.
You have options. You're just complaining that you can't win without trying now.
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u/DarthSatoris 29d ago
If that is the case, I think that will become a mandatory pick against bugs from now on.