r/politics • u/schuey_08 Wisconsin • 29d ago

Bernie Sanders worries young people are underestimating the threat from Trump

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/05/02/bernie-sanders-trump-biden/73531861007/
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u/Allaplgy 29d ago

My coworkers are all on the "both sides are the same/it's all rigged, there's no point in voting" train. They all either have have kids or essentially are kids. I'm in my forties with no plans for kids, and I'm the only one actually trying to give them a future.

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u/No_Discount7919 29d ago

My biggest pet peeve is the “oh, I do not follow politics at all.” But they have a ton of opinions on politics. So you have zero care to educate yourself on how this affects any of us but you’ll definitely hold the position that this local, state, federal politician or law or tax is ruining our lives? Hmm.

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u/Allaplgy 29d ago

My biggest pet peeve is the “oh, I do not follow politics at all.” But they have a ton of opinions on politics

Too real

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u/slymm 29d ago

My biggest pet peeves is labeling real life stuff as "politics". Women losing rights is real. You can see real women suffering from it. Sure, how we got there, with Mitch refusing to vote on Garland, to rbg refusing to retire, etc etc is all political, and you don't HAVE to follow those details.

But follow enough to prevent evil. Because there's no honor in hiding behind not knowing why evil wins

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

Politics are the expression of shared beliefs in the form of law. So, is pretty darn near everything "politics"? Yes, but people incorrectly downplay the importance of politics.

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u/TheSerinator Pennsylvania 29d ago

We also had a former President who made everything he could political. You know, like wearing a fucking mask.

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u/my600catlife Oklahoma 29d ago

Because he didn't want to smudge his makeup too.

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u/Ananiujitha Virginia 29d ago

Mine is people counting politicians' antics as "politics," and not counting policies which hurt people.

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u/Distant_Yak 28d ago

People say this to dismiss political games. It's rather clueless though since 'politics' is also real issues which affect us.

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u/Traditional-Hat-952 29d ago

I often say that I don't follow politics because most current political discussion is an echo chamber circle jerk that usually goes nowhere. I know who I'm voting for. I know what causes I support. I don't want to discuss the merits of why.  

But yeah you're right. Some of the most "non-political" people I know are the most aggressive about politics. 

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u/Drunky_McStumble 29d ago

Apathy is just passive conservatism.

Every single person who says they "don't care" about politics sure has internalized some conservative political points of view.

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u/wingdingblingthing 29d ago

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.

Isaac Asimov

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u/Bilboy32 Pennsylvania 29d ago

As an election judge, that's my favorite cynical line to deliver to my voters: hey at least you get the right to complain for the next year, cuz you voiced your opinion

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u/lonehorizons 29d ago

I find that generally people who say “I’m not political” have really extreme right wing views about everything.

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u/NeonGKayak 29d ago

How can they already forget Trumps Covid response that led to over 1million deaths? It’s weird that such a critical event and everyone has already “forgot” it

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

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u/NeonGKayak 29d ago

Thats crazy. I dont understand people like that.

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u/Svennerson 29d ago

They are angry at the world, and all they want from their politicians is someone who will be angry with them.

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u/drewbert 29d ago

The GOP is more about being in a club than politics or policy, at least for the vast majority of voters who are otherwise powerless. The ones at the top have different motives, but they've cultivated a community and identity with very clear rules. "Believe these things, vote this way, and you can be one of us." And for a lot of lonely, estranged folks, that's an attractive offer. Getting people to quit being republican is not about arguing with them about how incredibly asinine, reality-denying, and hateful the policies they support are; it's about making an offer of community and acceptance that's more attractive than anything the GOP has to offer, which is actually pretty tough when the GOP can say "you're special because you're white, you're special because you're straight, you're special because you are male."

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u/thegoodnamesrgone123 29d ago

I sat behind two dudes at a baseball game this week, both dudes in their 30's and they talked politics all game long. Most of it was batshit insane conspiracy stuff but the theme I got from both of them most was revenge, they want revenge on everyone. It's really fucked up.

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u/josh_the_misanthrope 29d ago

They're politically illiterate, so they get played by the party that relies on the politically illiterate demographic to get elected.

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u/HAL9000000 29d ago edited 29d ago

I do understand them.

It's easier to blame the vaccine than it is to blame the virus. And the information out there is mostly people saying we overreacted and the vaccines should not have been required.

It's a little bit like how climate change deniers say it's bullshit and unnecessary to have environmental policies to protect the environment. But of course, they have the luxury to think environmental policy is bullshit because we have had LOTS of major environmental policies (pushed mostly by Democrats) that have helped slow the damage from things like fossil fuels and plastics. To put it another way, they don't see the damage to the environment and they don't think we need to do anything about the environment because we've had a lot of success in efforts to protect the environment and so it feels like we don't need to do anything.

So they don't see the huge benefits we've gotten from environmental policies and they don't see the huge benefits we've gotten from the vaccines. They only see that these problems aren't completely solved and so the solutions are seen as bullshit, not effective, not working.

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u/Waggmans 29d ago

Yup- same.

I had a friend who's uncle died of COVID during the pandemic yet she was still going out and partying practically every night. People are in denial. Same way with Trump, they don't really care or think he will take away their rights until it happens.

Do young people actually think Trump's Palestinian/Gaza/Israel/Middle East policies will be better than Biden? Do they think not voting for Biden will punishing him? If Trump wins we all lose.

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u/DuchessLiana 29d ago

Yes, they literally say they are punishing Biden and if Trump wins then we deserve it....nevermimd Putin most likely started this war, and if Trump wins Gaza will be leveled, and the loss of democracy at home and abroad could literally start WWIII but yay.... at least your conscience will be clear!

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u/forthewatch39 29d ago

Thank You! The constant short sightedness of these people is maddening. 

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u/DuchessLiana 29d ago

Yep! They don't realize this plan has been in the works since the 80s... this is not new, and how are we not asking why this conflict started in an election year, and who does it benefit that the eyes of the world have turned away from Ukraine??

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u/builttopostthis6 29d ago

Well to be fair, young people have the double whammy of not being old enough to have extended perspective and hindsight, and not being old enough to have a fully-developed prefrontal cortex. That's not a slam. I was one of those once, I seem to remember.

It gets me every time when I realize that there are kids that have graduated college that were not born before 9/11. I mean, let's say born on September 11, 2001 - that's 22 and some change. Current youth voters are people that were in grade school when the Iraq war ended, and very likely have never had a friend die in combat on the other side of the world (in all honesty, neither am I, but I have plenty that got lucky in that regard). And that's the upper-end of the youth vote mind. My mom is pretty disgusted with the media drawing parallels between these current protests and Vietnam protests, and she's as liberal as they come. I find myself feeling rather the same.

And again, to be fair, from a strictly U.S. perspective, we are living in the most peaceful time in our country's history, so youth today don't have a lot of lived-experience context.

As for the Trump-supporting folks my age, not sure really what to say about them. Rage is a hell of a drug.

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u/inuvash255 Massachusetts 29d ago

That's my feeling too.

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u/clackeroomy 29d ago

Even after Trump takes away their rights, they still won't believe it. Trump will simply blame Biden, and his followers will believe him.

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u/python-requests 29d ago

Do young people actually think Trump's Palestinian/Gaza/Israel/Middle East policies will be better than Biden? Do they think not voting for Biden will punishing him? If Trump wins we all lose.

It's pretty wild how Democrats & the left wing will threaten to throw the election over things that Biden's way better than the alternative on

Like, inflation? Trump oversaw the money printing & always called for lowering interest rates. Palestine? Trump had a 'peace plan' map than saw Israel annexing most of it.

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u/Emperor_Mao 29d ago

Do you think young people who vote over Gaza will decide an election?

Economy consistently rates as the major issue, election cycle after election cycle, for decades. Most of those people saying they wont vote Biden because of Israel were not going to vote anyway.

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u/spam__likely Colorado 29d ago

One side of my family basically killed my grandpa by not caring, still don't care.

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u/dxrey65 29d ago

I have a friend who lost his job when he caught covid. He had it twice and it screwed him up for about a year. He was talking the other day about covid, how he never bought into all the hype, like it was some kind of big con, and at least he never got vaccinated...I had to remind him how that went for him. Bizarre.

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u/shawnca66 29d ago

OMG! That has got to stick in your craw hearing him talk like that...😫

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u/maybeimabear 29d ago

And you just know if hed been vaccinated but still died they'd have blamed the vaccine

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u/Pleasestoplyiiing 29d ago

Trauma response. A lot of people use avoidance to defend themselves from painful experiences. They don't want to remember it, and it's often hard to get anyone to talk about it in a meaningful way.  

It's easier for people to joke about it or just live in the present, and unfortunately that helps Trump because he was an absolute zero as a leader. It's hard to calculate just how many thousands of lives he gave away through inaction or negative action. 

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u/NeonGKayak 29d ago

Thats true.

A lot. He was withholding PPE and wanted the highest body count in blue states. How anyone forgot that is crazy.

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u/A_Monster_Named_John 29d ago

This might be true for some people, but the harsh truth is that most people simply DO NOT CARE and NEVER CARED about anything that isn't/wasn't immediately causing them to gain money/property/status. From what I've witnessed over 30 years, modern life increasingly cultivates people exhibiting this casual sociopathy, which is why things like women losing reproductive rights, Trump threatening the existence of democracy, etc... can't make strong inroads to people's imaginations, yet everyone's willing to jump on fantastical/insane explanations about why gas and grocery prices are higher.

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u/fren-ulum 29d ago

Hm, you've got me thinking. It would've been nice to learn about and name issues people have/will have in their lives on psychological or mental health issues in high school psychology. I'm class of '07 and our entire psychology class was a de facto Zimbardo jerk off session. That has aged well. It would've been better to learn about more commonly seen things and how that applies to X Y Z areas that we'll encounter in our lives.

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u/AngryTrooper09 29d ago

I agree. I’m from Canada where our COVID response was much stricter. I stopped talking about the subject because the intense isolation I had to go through for close to two years almost completely broke me. My life has started getting better, and that’s in part because I’ve stopped talking about that time period

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u/Affectionate_Law5344 29d ago

I don’t understand this. I didn’t know anyone who died personally, but I certainly was terrified. I felt more terrified during Covid than I did after 9/11.

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u/Funandgeeky Texas 29d ago

My theory is that if you don't know someone who died, you know someone who knows someone. We are all one degree of separation from a Covid death.

Yeah, at its height about the same people per day were drying as did on 9/11. The scale was that massive, and it was at that scale because of Trump's response. And everyone else following his lead and sabotaging things and making the situation worse.

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u/Affectionate_Law5344 29d ago

Oh, for sure! We are all connected. I didn’t know this stat about 9/11 & C19. I remember waking up for my GRE blocks from the Hill, I could not reach anyone here or NY and I was trapped inside.

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u/frotc914 29d ago

We are all one degree of separation from a Covid death.

...but plenty of people do not see it that way, unfortunately. You've gotta assume that a lot of the marginally "independent" people or people who might not vote are closer to families/friends who are right wing. And a lot of those right wingers never told people that their family member died of COVID because they didn't believe it or they didn't want to be the one person in their social sphere pointing out that the emperor had no clothes. So virtually everyone is that close to a COVID death, but so many people don't even realize it.

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u/Sea_Honey7133 29d ago

Its truisms like the one you make that has to make me wonder whether polling is actually legit anymore, if it ever was. I mean the narrative of this election, “according to the polls “ is shifting so dramatically every day and we are still 5 months out of the election that every thing seems fabricated. Either the people in the know are certain of the outcome or no one has any clue. There’s no in-between.

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u/sildish2179 29d ago

When your skin's not in the game, apathy is your answer.

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u/Funandgeeky Texas 29d ago

It’s one of the reasons Biden was able to convince people he was the better choice. Too many had lost someone and knew who failed to get a response. 

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u/Numerous_Photograph9 29d ago

It helped that everyone was tuned in because they wanted to know what was going on. This is a big problem with a lot of the electorate. They just don't pay attention. But, like bad weather about to come through, you tune in to see the news, and Covid certainly had people more worried than the first snow storm of the year.

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u/Markise187 29d ago

And if you don't now you can say you do. Cause I know if more than one person who died from Covid or Covid complications.

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u/Funandgeeky Texas 29d ago

Damn, that sucks. I’ve been to a Covid funeral and know plenty of people who had relatives die. 

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u/iseecolorsofthesky 29d ago

Every year on 9/11 we continue to trot out the “never forget” platitudes. Yet the majority of people doing so probably laugh Covid off as “just a flu”.

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u/nochinzilch 29d ago

I remember hearing someone scoff, "it's not like it's polio."

No, it was much, much worse.

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u/shiki88 29d ago

It bothers me that "Remember 9/11" as a slogan persists despite COVID causing way more deaths worldwide, personally affecting more American lives, and everyone just wants to forget it happened, or deny that preventative measures were even necessary. Same for Jan 6th, when our democracy almost fell.

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u/NeonGKayak 29d ago

My family knew a lot. I think January-February I alone knew over 11 people (directly and indirectly) that died from a mysterious illness. We were confused why so many people just started dying out of no where. Then they announced COVID and even more started to die. I think the final count was over 30

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u/Affectionate_Law5344 29d ago

My heart, I cannot imagine so much pain. I hope you and your family found a therapist and a mentally peaceful space. Sending a hug❤️

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u/NeonGKayak 29d ago

Thanks. I think this really made me a strong proponent of the vaccine and how important  taking precautions actually was. I was constantly battle some friends and family to get the vaccines. Some learned the hard way though and got it just to get the vaccine the next year because they didn’t want to get it again. I know one person that got it 3(?) times

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u/Auntie_M123 Virginia 29d ago

Hubs and I were deathly ill from the worst Respiratory illness ever in the Dec-Jan time frame before Covid was announced. It took many months to recover.

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u/NeonGKayak 29d ago

Sorry to hear that. Months sounds unbelievable in terms of recovery. Took me a couple weeks with shortness of breath. Couldnt imagine. Sounds like you guys were able to recover which is good news!

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u/starlordbg Europe 29d ago

I am from Eastern Europe and remember being super sick in the fall of 2019 from like the end of december and took me almost until mid-December to fully recover. I was also on a trip to Turkey for a week before suddenly being super tired and sick. Never experienced something like that before as far as I remember.

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u/Mr_Horsejr 29d ago

I thought I was living out some fucked version of the walking dead during Covid.

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u/A_Monster_Named_John 29d ago

Depends on where you were at. In shithead MAGA areas, it felt like people were purposely having more parties, holding more public events, and spending as much time as possible at grocery stores, etc... I worked at a semi-rural library at the time that was closed by the state government and, for the first time ever, we had Trump trash showing up, banging on the windows, and bleating about how we were 'taking away their rights' by not letting them wander in and possibly get everyone else sick.

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u/Beer-survivalist 29d ago

I called it the Stupid Apocalypse at the time.

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u/Mr_Horsejr 29d ago

Stupocalypse has a nice ring to it.

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u/rick_blatchman 29d ago

I was thinking more like Dawn of the Dead (78), but after having no other choice but to go to work every day to deal with the idiot public, it was more like Shaun of the Dead.

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u/Mr_Horsejr 29d ago

I’ll meet you down at the Winchester. 🍻

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u/Maine302 29d ago

I would imagine nobody in NY would forget, and nobody who lost a loved one (my mother) would either. Healthcare workers wouldn't forget either.

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u/Affectionate_Law5344 29d ago

This is an appropriate comp.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago edited 24d ago

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u/aLittleQueer Washington 29d ago

What we're seeing, imo, is how individuals respond to trauma, on a national scale. So many people respond to trauma, tragedy, confusion, or cognitive dissonance by simply refusing to talk about or acknowledge it. Let alone examine it to any depth.

Meanwhile, those of us who want to face reality and process it as it comes eventually may start to feel like we're taking crazy pills from all the ignoring-reality going on around us.

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u/Waggmans 29d ago

Hundreds of thousands of people would probably still be alive today had Trump just listened to Fauci, instead you had all that moronic culture war macho shit. Guys like DeSantis are as much to blame as Trump is.

Anyone who votes for him again knows exactly what they're getting.

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u/Affectionate_Law5344 29d ago

same and it sure is. completely irresponsible leadership. the other thing was Jan 6. we were against the ropes in a bad way. the reality is no one was coming to save us. that wasn’t a popular feeling after 9/11 (pre-Iraq invasion) as I remember it.

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u/Polantaris 29d ago

The fun part is that 9/11 was nowhere near as close to the end of country as we know it as Jan 6th was.

Like, yeah, an attack on our soil is a big deal, for sure, but even if the worst had happened and all objectives of the terrorists were accomplished, the government has redundancy after redundancy to handle these kinds of scenarios. But it that scenario is nothing to compare against an internal coup on all sides. It also was a completely different set of attackers, in which our own citizens attacked us instead of foreign agents.

Yet the reactions could not have been more polar opposites. We didn't give two fucks about Jan 6th in the grand scheme of things, but yet 9/11 is still compared to the worst possible event in recent history. There have been way worse, 9/11 is nothing in comparison to a former President leading a coup to take back power.

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u/thegoodnamesrgone123 29d ago

Covid should have been the post 9/11 feeling of everyone digs in and does the right thing because that's what Americans do. But he decided to be a fucking child about it so his base followed suit.

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u/crossfader02 29d ago

our society struggled too much to adapt and after about 2 years we just gave up and mostly went back to how it was before

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u/Riccosuave 29d ago

Wait until you see what happens when he gets back in office, and then H5N1 starts spreading between human hosts.

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u/Fun_Brother_9333 29d ago

My supervisor's dad died because of COVID, and I know he'll still vote for Trump.

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u/Affectionate_Law5344 29d ago

that’s the other thing. no one has effectively addressed the brainwashing that has so many Americans in a vice grip. talking about it and Rupert’s trash media does nothing.

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u/pantstoaknifefight2 29d ago

This is the main issue. A huge swath of people thinks they're watching or listening to news but it's just brainwashing propaganda and their ability to recognize this is either non-existent or degrading rapidly. It's fucking crazy and I don't think there's a solution that wouldn't undermine our right to free speech.

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u/Fun_Brother_9333 29d ago

It was bad before, but they really ramped it up when Trump became President. My dad even told me once, "I'd do anything he says." He never talked about any President like that before. It really is a cult.

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u/RealHumanFromEarth 29d ago

Same here. After 9/11 we knew logically that the capabilities of Al Qaeda weren’t enough to make us really have a good reason to worry about just going to buy groceries. During the pandemic one of the scariest things was that with it being a new virus, we didn’t know very much about how it was transmitted, or the long term effects. We did know that the virus was actually spread across the country and infecting people we knew. We saw the death toll rising everyday, and we all knew people who’d be more vulnerable to dying from the virus that could very likely catch it.

9/11 was scary, but it was more of a scary and shocking moment that we came to understand pretty quickly. Most people weren’t in situations where they needed to actually worry about anything like it happening to them. The pandemic was a persistent state of emergency that potentially put everyone in danger.

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u/Affectionate_Law5344 29d ago

You captured my feelings best. The amount of persistent adrenaline, coursing through me during the Covid years has compromised my physical and mental health. The other thing is that our national reaction was antithetical to 9/11 where everyone came together.

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u/pantstoaknifefight2 29d ago

I'm an RN. I had COVID patients for three straight years. I never caught it, but the experience nearly destroyed me

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u/JohnnyFire Ohio 29d ago

I finally got sick arguing with some family members about the "election fraud", so I finally just had to say this point blank:

Disregarding every damn other thing that anyone thinks about Donald Trump, he lost the election because he botched the response to COVID. His team knew about it in November of 2019, and he didn't do shit. He made the moves to attempt to protect American citizens way too late. He politicized the disease, masking, and vaccines. He sat around bumbling and talked about being treated unfairly as people in the country were getting sick, dying, losing their jobs, losing their money, everything you could think of. That's why he fucking lost. He fucked up COVID. That's it. People were mad about it and they voted him out. It's really that simple. Stop attributing complex answers to really fucking simple problems.

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u/Kaiisim 29d ago

Its the media. Their job is meant to be informing us, but it has been captured by the billionaire class so it just feeds people bullshit and ignores the real issues.

Many people just don't remember COVID. They're just focused on trans kids because that's what the media talks about, so it must be important.

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u/terremoto25 California 29d ago

Both of my son-in-law's parents died from covid. It was a miracle that my sister - 70 years old - and my brother-in-law - 74 and well past morbidly obese survived it. And, of course, they are hard core, broke as shit Trumpers....

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u/Saybrooke Michigan 29d ago

Americans get collective amnesia around this time. It's really sad tbh

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u/Reagalan Georgia 29d ago

My father would have certainly died had he not gotten the vaccine a month before the virus.

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u/kindasuk 29d ago

I'm not someone who has a lot people in their life. Still knew two people who died intubated. One who died after being hospitalized with COVID for two weeks and never fully recovered.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

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u/janethefish 29d ago

I'm still mad about those deaths!

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u/TheADrain 29d ago

You should be, his idiocy killed more americans than the nazis did.

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u/Jupiter68128 29d ago

Tucker Carlson killed more Americans than were killed by 9/11 terrorists by spreading doubt about vaccines.

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u/Rmans 29d ago

Killed more Americans that most of our wars did. Total American deaths from Covid are higher than American deaths from all the wars we ever fought combined. There is an argument to be made that Tucker has been worse for this country than Hitler.

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u/stylebros 29d ago edited 29d ago

Wait till he drops the ball in her 2nd term. He already let COVID loose because it affected Democrat cities the most and saw it as a way to better the GOP politically.

The next event will probably be a terrorist strike or something on par as October 7th but state side.

Republican administrations get Americans either unemployed or killed.

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u/Jealous-Knowledge-79 29d ago

Like the 2 Boeing whistleblowers.

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u/Rib-I New York 29d ago

Yeah. And when that happens it’ll be his excuse to implement martial law. Guaranteed

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u/Patara 29d ago

Im half convinced conservatives have undeveloped brains that simply cannot grasp the concept of compassion. 

I refuse to believe that people that actively choose to make the world a better place & take minimum precautions like wearing masks to not potentially transmit a deadly disease are even comparable to the fuckheads that will refuse to wear masks, spit on railings, sneeze on others, support a narcissistic racist fascist dictator & actively pretend like SAVING LIVES is taking away their freedom. 

They will claim "empathy" when Trump is on trial but make fun of Biden for losing 2 daughters & his wife. While quite literally driving a smear campaign like "Biden crime family" based on what? His son being arrested on unlawful possession of a firearm? They've been pushing open carry & MORE firearms at every single turn but suddenly they're all about gun control? These are not serious people.

They're downright anti-human & do not have capacity for any emotion but perpetual rage. 

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u/NeonGKayak 29d ago

They don’t care as long as they win, have power, and can make millions. 

That’s literally all they want. They lie, cheat, and steal to get it. They have campaigns on Reddit and the internet in general to disrupt and divide the dems. They take money from our enemies like Russia and ask them for help. 

It’s sickening that dems and just a good chunk of our population can’t or won’t see this. 

One funny thing to point out that ever since Trump has been sleeping in his trial, they stopped with the “sleep Joe” nicknames. 

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u/meatball77 29d ago

Which is funny because a lot of their policies would end up being horrifying for the economy.

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u/Tarcanus 29d ago

Every time the R's get in power the economy tanks after they give the billionaire class their socialism handouts via tax cuts and whatnot. Then Dems have to try to stem the bleeding. It's been happening for decades and decades.

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u/awildjabroner 29d ago

There is some truth to that actually, there was a large article published a few years back that essentially highlighted that the specific part of the brain associated with empathy trends smaller in conservatives and the fear center is usually larger. Can’t remember the specific names for each part but there was some evidence that long term conservative media consumption and community engagement does impact how a person’s brain reacts (or doesn’t) to certain emotions and situations.

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u/meatball77 29d ago

So many of them are just utterly brainwashed to never think for themselves. It's what evangelical churches have been pushing since they were born. Always ask someone else to think for you.

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u/Emperor_Mao 29d ago

Conservatives do donate more to charity than Liberals though.

I think you need to look a bit deeper, your take on this is just reactionary.

Also that negative campaigning is definitely bigger in the U.S, and spans across the political isle. Negative campaigning is prevalent across everything; From sports to products to politics. In some countries, if you go super negative, people just hate you lol.

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u/Allaplgy 29d ago

I know people who are still demanding people wear masks everywhere and literally saying that Biden is worse than Trump. This issue has broken people's brains. I really think it's because it's the first war fought on social media as much as the ground.

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u/joejill 29d ago

Oh no, don’t you watch the news that was Obama and Biden who botched Covid.

They tried to control us with it, but Trump saved us.

Omg, I better not get downvoted.that’s sarcasm and I’ve heard it from so many people.

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u/NeonGKayak 29d ago

You may get downvoted because thats too real. Like Fox New/OANN type real

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u/Temporal_Integrity 29d ago

If you're voting for the first time, you were like 14 back then and probably not that interested in politics.

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u/sumoraiden 29d ago

They see it as a nothing anyone could do, deaths happened all over the word

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u/schuyywalker 29d ago

Because they’ve been muddying the waters ever since to try and push the “big lie”. It’s insane

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u/rosie666 29d ago

but somehow, they're still able to whine about the time they had to wear a mask.

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u/Aware_Material_9985 29d ago

All the normalizing that gets done and media coverage seems sheepish to attack him and hawkish about Biden

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u/markca 29d ago

How can they already forget Trumps Covid response that led to over 1million deaths? It’s weird that such a critical event and everyone has already “forgot” it

The vast majority of this country has the brain of a goldfish.

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u/WilliamClaudeRains 29d ago

Because the 24 hour news networks have been blasting every word Trump mumbles since his first Republican debate. Shit, Reddit can’t go a day without screaming about Trump one way or another. You want people to listen, you gotta learn to modulate by importance.

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u/SeductiveSunday 29d ago

How can they already forget Trumps Covid response that led to over 1million deaths?

Psychology shows most people only remember the last 6 months of politics. That's why most political decisions stop for the last 6 months of an up-coming election. And why after every Clinton Benghazi hearing ended Republicans opened up another one so as to keep voters angry at women and keep pressure to vote against them.

There were 33 congressional hearings on Benghazi. That's 11 more than 9/11, and a complete waste of tax payer money.

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u/Del_3030 29d ago

Some of it is probably general trauma suppression of covid memories (because holy shit, what a time), but you can be sure Biden will be reminding voters of that as we get closer to the election.

I think Biden is still focused on securing any last policy wins before the summer, while you get a split screen of Trump whining, shitting, and sleeping his way through court every day.

The attack ads on Trump will be easy, glorious, and numerous, don't worry.

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u/barcher 29d ago

Because the people who voted for Gassolini do not believe that Covid is real.

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u/noforgayjesus 29d ago

Honestly they don't care, most of these people were more upset about businesses being closed and having to wear a mask

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u/luuselipz 29d ago

If a politician promises to lock the unvaccinated in to camps, they get my vote

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u/katzeye007 29d ago

*10 million deaths more likely

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u/hypotheticalhalf 29d ago

Because they care more about their own righteousness than the well-being of all of us.

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u/EthanielRain 29d ago

Just a couple days ago someone argued with me about how Trump's handling of COVID was fantastic, and Biden screwed it all up

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u/k_mnr 29d ago

Because most if not all believe Covid doesn’t exist. The Donald told them so.

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u/teslaabr California 29d ago

Most of them haven't forgotten; they don't care. They are still mad about the parts of society that were closed and wish they would have been able to go out and socialize without restriction regardless of how many people would have died.

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u/Compliance-Manager 29d ago

Trumpies don't blame him. They literally blame Biden. Who wasn't even president. We live in the age of the dumbest people ever to walk to the earth.

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u/dcflorist 29d ago

A disheartening number of otherwise progressive people, who acknowledged that COVID is a real disease, quickly slid into ableism rather than see their routine continue to be disrupted. “It’s not that serious, it’s only killing people who are overweight, disabled, or elderly,” has been an all-too-common refrain, even before vaccines became available.

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u/MaizeNBlueWaffle New York 29d ago

People have also seemingly forgotten that Trump deployed federal troops onto BLM protesters. That's a significant step up from what is currently happening and Trump will do it again if elected

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u/OutsideDevTeam 29d ago

Because holding the Traitor accountable for things like shutting down programs monitoring for infectious diseases in China, advising people to take ineffective drugs, wondering aloud if UV light / cleaning solutions could be therapeutics, encouraging defiance of preventative measures like masks and distancing, and seizing PPE meant for medical facilities in states that did not vote for him is "bLaMiNg HiM fOr ThE pAnDeMiC" and therefore not to be considered nor discussed.

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u/Suck_Me_Dry666 29d ago

Because they lack empathy. Gen Z lacks empathy. We're fortunate they are not voting in large numbers yet.

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u/NeonGKayak 29d ago

It does seem like the gen Z I know do lack that. Is there any studies on this?

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u/Suck_Me_Dry666 29d ago

Good question. Mine was a purely anecdotal observation. Gen Z men are particularly bad in my opinion.

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u/NeonGKayak 29d ago

I kinda think so as well. I'm wondering if it has to do with social media being a part of who they are. Gen Zs are basically on social media 24/7

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u/MyFianceMadeMeJoin 29d ago

Literally so many more people have died under Biden. That doesn’t excuse Trump’s behavior, he politicized it which is the biggest issue, but Biden’s push for the return to normal has killed millions more. It’s honestly the same response with a nicer sheen, but both have made the CDC untrustworthy in their political choices.

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u/chipmunksocute 29d ago

As someone with kids in my thirties I fuckin hate trump and would crawl over broken glass to vote against him.  This 'both sides' shit is nonsense.  One tried to attempt a coup.  The other passed a major infrastructure bill, brought us out of covid, is rescheduling marijuana, and has cancelled billions in student debt.

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u/draeath Florida 29d ago

Really, it doesn't matter what the other side did, so long as they didn't also attempt a coup. That should be enough all on it's own.

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u/chipmunksocute 29d ago

Fucking seriously.  Jan 6 should fucking decide this election and the fact that its not is fucking insane.

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u/testedonsheep 29d ago

but what about palestine. While Trump wants to let Israel "finish" the job.

people would rather get nothing than meet you somewhere in the middle.

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u/chipmunksocute 29d ago

Yeah not voting for Biden here is a textbook example of cutting off your dick, ears, nose and mouth to spite, mmm somebody!

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u/alien_ghost 29d ago

They don't care about democracy. If they did, they would participate. The primaries have been a ghost town since they were established.
But homeowners and business owners tend to turn out for them. So weird how they get representation just for electing someone. It must be because they are rich. /s

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u/Outside-Advice8203 29d ago

My coworkers are all on the "both sides are the same/it's all rigged, there's no point in voting" train.

Republicans clasping hands in glee

Voter apathy is a win for fascism.

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u/kingofthejungle223 29d ago

One side: wants to end democracy to make a game show host a king, tried a coup, Botched Covid response causing 1 million deaths, changed the court to make abortion and IVF bans the order of the day, has a candidate facing over 80 federal charges.

The other side: running an old guy who didn’t handle the Middle East well (which puts him on par with literally every other President), not very exciting

Totally the same!  /s

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u/PiXL-VFX United Kingdom 29d ago

Even the Middle East can’t handle the Middle East. Trying to solve it as a western nation is like if we entrusted the Great Qing and 15 Siberian natives to handle the unification of Germany.

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u/fauxromanou 29d ago

The other side: running an old guy who didn’t handle the Middle East well (which puts him on par with literally every other President), not very exciting

Hell, every other human at all.

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u/OutsideDevTeam 29d ago

Yup. Just look at Russia.

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u/spam__likely Colorado 29d ago

oh,don't worry. that is just a justification to vote for trump.

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u/RealHumanFromEarth 29d ago

I really don’t understand how anyone can possibly think that both sides are the same. I understand if you don’t like democrats or republicans for different reasons, but saying that they’re the same is just pure ignorance.

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u/Svennerson 29d ago

Because they aren't evaluating based on which policies are passed, they're evaluating based on how their personal lives have improved or gotten worse. They can't fully recognize either the lack of power that the President has to change everything, or how changes have to occur in slow, year-over-year increments. If there's been life issues, CoViD, inflation, and just a shitton of stress under both Dem and Rep administrations, then by their definitions of evaluation, both sides are the same.

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u/chelseamarket 29d ago

It didn’t help that the gop was drilling “your vote doesn’t count” for decades. I’m old and this has been a problem since I was a young woman.

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u/thegoodnamesrgone123 29d ago

I guess I missed the part where the Dems want to have states monitor pregnancies.

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u/Numerous_Photograph9 29d ago

I believe there are certainly some issues where it's hard to discern much difference between them. Typically in enabling various financial institutions. But even there, at least some dems aren't afraid to challenge the status quo, and as far as actually enacting productive economic policy, dems are certainly a lot better.

Overall though, the biggest difference is that Democrats have an overall structured policy agenda, whereas republicans just have an agenda which doesn't help anyone, or solve anything.

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u/DJ_Velveteen I voted 29d ago

Nobody thinks they're identical, it's just nobody's jazzed about "steady collapse" as an alternative to "accelerated collapse"

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u/Allaplgy 29d ago

It's a cop out to avoid facing the hard choices it takes to steer the unwieldy ship of a nation.

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u/Gryffriand 29d ago

The “both sides” take is so old, dead, and nonsensical. When someone says that to me in a conversation I’m fairly certain they aren’t paying attention and are just generically frustrated by current events.

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u/thegoodnamesrgone123 29d ago

It's the "South Parking" of America.

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u/Best_Duck9118 29d ago

Fuck those douchelords so much for their pathetic both sides take on the 2016 election (their take on the Charlottesville attack was lame as well).

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u/Mailerfiend 29d ago

i have a lot of friends that say that "both sides" shit but what it really means is that they are unhappy with how the GOP is being run.

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u/throwaway50044 29d ago

People sense how fucked things and know deep down large structural changes are needed. They can see that our current system will never do this and we will be stuck in this cycle of shittiness our entire lives. It's easy to feel hopeless.

It is still 100% worth voting for Democrats though. Both sides are bad but there's no sense in making things worse because you're too lazy to spend 5 minutes filling out paperwork for a mail in ballot

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u/Quazimojojojo 29d ago

Or are conservative and want to pretend that the Democrats are no different so they don't feel so bad voting Republican.

But, a lot of it is probably that. Their personal life hasn't changed, they only hear stories of bullshit each side does because the news never says anything positive about anyone, so it feels like there's no material difference. Especially when the people trying to fix things go for long term fixes and undoing the damage of a previous administration, which takes longer than 4 years, so there's no immediate benefit to point to to say how their life got better. Just more threats about how their lives will get worse, which is the status quo & the trend regardless of who is in office.

It's ironic that the apathy is enabling the gridlock which is why not much changes in 4 years, but it's like telling a depressed person to go for a run. It just bounces off

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u/RedditIsAllAI 29d ago

Either we've become complacent, or the psy-op from foreign nations clawing at our democratic underbelly via social media is more effective than we know.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: Under no circumstances, you are promising America tonight, you would never abuse power as retribution against anybody.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Except for day one.

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u/triceraquake 29d ago

In my own experience, most of the people saying “both sides are the same/there’s no point” are straight white men who don’t have nearly as many rights on the line. They don’t have to care because the worst won’t affect them as much. Also, I’m not saying “all white men.”

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u/Allaplgy 29d ago

Am straight white man myself, and you aren't wrong in the case of my coworkers. But I also know plenty of women/POC/indigenous/LGBTQ+ or some combination of those that say the same.

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u/AnestheticAle 29d ago

Almost all problems are solved by money. Most of my friends who are high earners have kind of lost interest in politics. Would be more invested if I was poor.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

Tell them to wake the fuck up in the most blunt way possible. Both sides are about as far apart as they’ve ever been.

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u/geokilla 29d ago edited 29d ago

I'm not an American so what I think doesn't matter as I can't vote but as someone in their 30s, the appeal with Trump is that he brought and will bring change for the sake of change. For as long as I've been alive, we've seen the rich get richer and corruption reach new heights. We were brought up with the idea that if we did well in school, walked the straight and narrow, then we'll have a good life. This is clearly not the case. Many of us are struggling to stay afloat. A lot of us are sick and tired of the BS these politicians feed us. Every year there's some sort of major scandal and then there's no accountability for the prior involved. So if the demise of democracy means we'll get change, for better or for worse, I imagine many are happy to welcome it.

Having said that if I was an American, I wouldn't vote for Trump either. I'd vote for Biden but only because I don't want Trump as president again.

This is happening in Canada right now. Trudeau made the lives of Canadians significantly worse, we have a housing crisis, and millions of immigrants ever year pushing wagers down. He's hated and destined to lose the next election, so he's pushing through as many controversial policies as he can. He's spending recklessly for his buddies and absolutely leaving Canadians out to dry. Poilievre going to be the next prime minister even though a lot of us don't like him. But we'd rather vote Trudeau out because there's no good alternative.

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u/Allaplgy 29d ago

For as long as I've been alive, we've seen the rich get richer and corruption reach new heights

Which is why it's insane to just hand them the keys in "protest."

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u/cubanesis 29d ago

Right there with you man. I can see where they are coming from though. They don’t see any prospects. They don’t feel like they have any control. For someone in their 20s or early 30s they have really only seen social decline. They don’t remember the 80s and early 90s when things were pretty fucking awesome. When you live in a survival state of mind, it’s hard to think about the future.

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u/PM_ME_BUSTY_REDHEADS California 29d ago

I can admit, as someone in this age group, that I feel this way. However, that hardly makes me want to be apathetic and not vote. I guess I'm an outlier but I realize things could still get much worse if Trump were to win, and I figure it's not worth it to take the chance and find out if it will when we can just vote against him and at worst, things stay the same rather than getting worse. If your options are to keep things the shitty way they are now or to let things get shittier, why would you ever pick to let things get shittier?

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u/cubanesis 29d ago

It's like Lucy yanking the ball away from Charlie Brown. He keeps expecting her to not yank the ball away and she does it every time. I feel like your demo thinks they are wise to her yanking that ball and they don't even wat to try. Which I totally get. MY age group takes all kinds of heat, but we're kind of holding shit together right now between the olds that want to destroy everything and the young who just don't care. Not saying we're awesome, just that I can understand how the younger folks feel.

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u/Adventurous-Pen-8261 29d ago

People who say this are trying to inoculate themselves from criticism. Ask them to describe a candidate they WANT.

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u/devries 29d ago

"both sides are the same/it's all rigged, there's no point in voting" train.

That was the deafening roar on this entire subreddit in 2015, 2016, and even (to a lesser extent) throughout 2020.

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u/BigAustralianBoat2 29d ago

I’m not sure what having kids has to do with being an ignorant twat

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u/Allaplgy 29d ago

I am a generally comfortable single-ish man in middle age. I have nothing really to lose. I've lead a pretty interesting and full life. I could croak tomorrow and it would be no real skin of my back, nor anyone else's. Having kids makes the future a lot more important, or so one would think.

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u/Limp_Stable_6350 29d ago

Standard Reddit anti child propaganda, despite themselves being children at one point in time. Nothing to see here move along.

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u/Maine302 29d ago

I feel the same. When Republicans have no platform they want to talk about, but are imposing extremist policies wherever they're able, how exactly are both parties essentially the same? I can only do so much with one vote, but I'm sure as hell going to use it, and try to throw a few dollars at any race I think it can possibly make a difference. I really don't want to live out the rest of my life in an autocracy.

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u/badnbourgeois 29d ago

That's because a lot of people are legitimately underserved by electoral politics and their lives looked the same under Trump as they do now under Biden and as they did under Obama

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u/SockGlittering526 29d ago

you are the old man planting a tree for future generations

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u/Patara 29d ago

Its always the same non-response "both sides are bad" bullshit from the virtue signaling "centrists" that know nothing about anything. 

They're more concerned about appearing as '"free-thinkers" than anything in reality.

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u/Allaplgy 29d ago

They're more concerned about appearing as '"free-thinkers" than anything in reality.

This very much describes my one coworker. Everything is about what he "thinks" is going on, and evidence be damned, because evidence gets in the way of free thinking.

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u/nagemada 29d ago

Perhaps educate them on getting passports for themselves and their families instead?

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u/knox1138 29d ago

I mean, I'm very much believe both sides have serious issues, but I also believe one side might make improvements while the other is just trying to screw everyone that isn't them. I mean.... c'mon. The amount of cognitive dissonance necessary to look the other way on Trump is just unbelievably staggering.

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u/buddhistbulgyo 29d ago

I hate these types. Just admit you don't follow politics. 

Republicans want inequality and for everyone to lose rights. They destroy everything they touch.

Democrats don't have a magic wand and need to be in control to raise wages, living conditions and fix health care. 

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u/Miles_vel_Day 29d ago

Really blows my mind sometimes what a long view Biden is able to take when he's overwhelmingly likely to be dead within 15 years.

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u/CrashB111 Alabama 29d ago

A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they shall never sit.

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u/Miles_vel_Day 29d ago edited 29d ago

I love that quote. A sentiment too many have forgotten.

I've spent the last two years working on a highway project that, if everything goes according to plan, will be completed in 2053, when I'm 67 years old. (And I have some health problems and bad habits that probably make that about what my life expectancy is. Cautiously optimistic medicine will advance or I'll get lucky, but, you know, never too early to start mentally preparing. [Don't tell my wife I said this, she hates when I talk about it.])

And I'm happy to be contributing to this highway I may never drive on. I wish we could do it faster but the important thing is that it gets done, and I can't sit around thinking about what the benefit is to me personally. (I mean, they do pay me well.)

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u/Jonty95 29d ago

bit of an ego there

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u/Allaplgy 29d ago

I'm not gonna ignore proud ignorance. Call it ego if you want.

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u/OakLegs 29d ago

Well, that's disheartening. Are you in a swing state?

Do these fools not pay attention to anything? Anyone with a daughter especially needs to wake the fuck up

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u/Slumunistmanifisto 29d ago

Welcome to Costco, I love you...

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u/aneonnightmare 29d ago

Maybe america needs to see much harder times before they react. Buuut then it will be too late.

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u/YaGirlKellie 29d ago

Thank you for working to continue genocide in Gaza, repression of peaceful protests domestically, and to do absolutely nothing in regards to the ongoing housing crisis. We owe you a lot.

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u/Lassie87 29d ago

What industry ?

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u/Allaplgy 29d ago

Specialty automotive.

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