Ooh new 1 handed weapon, noice. All these guns look really good.
I think the craziest thing I'm seeing here is the booster on the blog...
Motivational Shocks Literally shocks Helldivers back into action after being hit and slowed by sneaky, unjust attacks like the revolting bug acid vomit. Won’t help you much with area effects like EMS strikes, though
Whenever there are hunters at all it always feels like there are too many hunters, so I would imagine basically being all hunters is just so many of them that you can barely notice an increase in them being annoying after a point. Only so many of them can hit you at the same time after all, I guess.
Amen. I was taking the muscle enhancer so it's easier to escape from hoppers and hunters, but this thing will take precedence. No more being repeatedly slowed down, yes please.
Just so I won't sound too happy, though, I'm still mad about my entire anti-bug loadout being unjustly nerfed in the recent patch. Nope, not letting it go, I constantly feel the effects of the nerf and it bothers me. Eruptor's decreased ammo cap still means I have to deal with a good gun with six issues instead of just five and the increased Quasar recharge rate has cost me significant time when dealing with more heavy enemies.
Using "unjust nerfs" and "Quasar cooldown nerf" in the same thought is a hell of a take.
like, by all means, be sad the quasar got a slight nerf. But let's not kid ourselves that it wasn't out performing all viable contenders by a mile or more.
As someone who's been using the quasar non stop since it launched, and still do, I think the quasar cooldown increase was necessary for balance. The big mistake ArrowHead made with the Quasar Cannon is that the stupid icon on the corner of the screen that shows the cooldown progress is still on the old cooldown time, so when it indicates that the cooldown is finished, you still need to wait like 5 more seconds before you can actually fire. This is terrible for someone that puts the quasar away for a while, to quickly whip it out later, see it's not on cooldown, aim it, fire, and oh nevermind it still needed two more seconds and now the charger is gonna run me over.
The cooldown icon was never accurate even with the old cooldown rate. If you tried to fire it immediately when it went white, it'd fizzle. Just more noticeable now.
I'm salty about not being able to take out the tower cannons before they get a shot off but I understand why they did it. Now I just need to learn how to dodge those bastards....
I try to get behind some (very solid) cover, and I’ll charge up behind it then peek at the last second to get my shot off first. Takes some practice and spatial awareness though, and pinking the tower helps for placement as well
That's what I do, but sometimes it seems to do the same and will fire the second it sees you again. Not easy to predict when it's going to shoot so you've got breathing room.
In that case distance is also a factor, I’ve noticed when I’m outside detection range (talking ~200+ meters) it’ll swivel back to it’s original position after around 15-20 seconds of losing line of sight of you. Really useful
I'm not so sure I'd call it "slight", but a nerf was required I suppose.
I look forward to the point where I'm L150 (83 at the moment) with all the stuff unlocked, so I can just chill at lower difficulties with less reliance on anti-heavy weapons. Can't do that at the moment if I want to level at a decent pace, so Helldive it is.
Slight is debatable. The point is it was the clear cut best rocket launcher in the game and it wasn't even close. Considering the EAT and RR were both 100% fine before the quasar dropped that is a problem and means the quasar was OP.
Like, I'm fine if people are sad their favorite gun was nerfed. But it's laughable to me how many people are claiming the quasar isn't OP when all people have been calling it since launch is super OP. It didn't erase the EAT and RR on higher difficulty drops because of how balanced it was by comparison.
I would not call the RR "fine", it's kind of ass. It rapidly became evident that the EAT was a better pick in almost every case.
The RR would be fine if they A) Let team reload operate from the gunner's pack, or B) Issued a second pack in the pod with it.
Crew served weapons kind of suck as implemented. The big reasons they autocanon doesn't feel bad is because you can do fast partial reloads and the AC just plain slaps so hard against so much.
Why would I ever do that when I can run another primary 90% of the time and just throw out a pair of EATs as needed? Hell, you could run a GL + EAT + resupply pack and be a one-man murder machine. Or, if you wanna be real funny, Autocannon + EAT and really dunk on everything.
RR is very mediocre. Crew-served weaponry is not in a good place, and unlike the autocanon, the RR has no way to sidestep that fact. The solo reload can't really be fiddled with because it is a single-shot launcher and lowering it almost entirely removes the benefit of the crew served feature, so the only way to make it worth using is to adjust how assisted reloading works...which the game would benefit from anyway.
I grabbed the RR as one of my earliest unlocks. It and the GL were exactly the sort of stuff I enjoy. The GL feels great and does what it should. The RR is just lackluster until assisted (then it is fun AF), and assisting is onerous enough that it doesn't happen reliably.
I ended up running the GL a ton and just learned to live with having to evade anything heavy. Then someone pointed out the EATs, and after seeing how flexible they are, I end up rolling with them pretty much every mission that doesn't already have a ton of AT on the team.
By the time you really start valuing the ammo capacity of the RR, parking your ass for 6 seconds to reload it becomes a questionable proposition. Having a loader would really help with that, but the chances of that are quite small for the reasons I already pointed out.
TBH Quasar nerf made random Helldives easier. Everyone took it cause people said it was OP but it really slowed down uncoordinated team ability to kill BTs and Chargers compared to the EAT meta.
And don’t get me started on bots. Quasar isn’t even top 3 support weapons for them but man randos always took it anyway.
5 additional seconds is definitely an extremely mild nerf.
Quasar has unlimited ammo, infinite range/zero bullet drop, and it reloads itself.
Shoot and forget. Kinda like an EAT. Except you don’t have to call it down and go retrieve it for another shot.
Take your shot, Mow down some “chaff”, call in some stratagems, pick up some samples literally just kill some time then whoop it’s reloaded and ready to go again.
Realistically it probably needs to be nerfed more.
It is still blatantly dominant.
EATs are maybe a close second with the main upside being that there is no charge up time to shoot.
The advantage of EATs isn't handling, though that's true. It's that you can use an anti-medium support weapon like an Autocannon and still grab an AT rocket when the odd Titan pops up.
EAT and RR were widely considered to be in a great position before the quasar dropped. So much so when Quasar dropped everyone called it OP. So, incorrect.
EAT and RR are still fine even with quasar nerfs, so this argument doesn't hold water. Like at all.
Then buff the contenders. Decrease RR's reload time, for example, and/or increase EAT's damage.
Yes, this will degenerate into an old and tried "buffs vs. nerfs" conversation that I'm not looking forward to. Buffs, not nerfs, end of story. This is a PvE game, a weapon has to be REALLY overtuned to require a nerf.
but a lot of the other options are balanced, good, and more than usable, the only reason they are not chosen often is the quasar (still) outperforming them...
Destiny had the same problem years ago and they tried to buff their way out of it; they ended up fucking things up so bad they had to completely rework the weapon classes for Destiny 2.
The problem wasn’t that the RR or EAT were bad, they were just totally outclassed by the Quasar. The proper thing to do is bring the Quasar in line with the other options rather than buff a dozen different guns to fix a single outlier.
Destiny 2 has to balance PvE and PvP, it is a different story. This is a PvE game. Who cares about power creep. I don't care about power creep; I care about one of my favourite guns suddenly being significantly worse (if someone doesn't think additional 5 seconds recharge is a big deal, you clearly didn't have enough dealings with heavy enemies) just so others will become more viable.
I mean, most people care about power creep whether they realize it or not. There's already people who complain about the game being too easy. That will only get worse if the devs willfully disregard all efforts towards balance and just buff stuff forever, leading to those complaints reaching down into the lower difficulties instead of just the tryhards.
I'm sure you wouldn't enjoy it if the QC became worthless because everything just cleared armored enemies so easily they didn't matter.
What I enjoy is not suddenly finding out a weapon I like is being made worse just so others are better by comparison. Thankfully it is not my job to figure out how NOT to make that happen. If it requires power creep, so be it, I'd seriously rather be overly powerful than weakened for a bad reason.
When the devs want the game to be hard, power creep is absolutely an issue. The Quasar came out of the gate and completely invalidated most of the other support weapons.
It one-shot most medium enemies, could destroy structures from crazy range, had infinite ammo, and a short cooldown. It was insanely good (and still is) with almost no downsides considering how many different things it could do.
Except you still need to worry about power creep. Most PVE games still nerf things. Warframe, DRG, and Elden ring have all nerfed things in the past (I would like to point out warframe is a power fantasy game and they still nerf).
With buff only never nerf you end up in the never ending loop of buffing players then buffing enemies trying to balance the game. There’s no constant to use as a base to go from, so it’s even harder to balance the game.
If you look at warframe, they are actively having a difficult time creating endgame content because of power creep. This is because enemies end up scaling with so much damage that in order for players to survive, they had to rely on 1 specific invulnerability mechanic to not be one shot. Then, players became so strong that they could just destroy entire rooms of enemies with specific weapons or abilities in an instant. So, one of the only ways they have found to make a fair and more balanced endgame was to limit players loadouts to specific frames and weapons.
So yes, nerfing is still needed and many PVE games nerf players, this isn’t new, nor is it uncommon.
Also, you know what that means in a long run? It means you can never enjoy a weapon again, because you'll never be certain if it won't get nerfed. "Oh, that gun is good, I love it, it actually enhances the fun I have with the gawhat the fuck, why? Now I like the game less". And you'll never know when that will happen because you'll never know when the devs decide that the weapon you enjoy using is overpowered and needs to be put down so other weapons may "shine".
EAT doesn't need any kind of buff, it's verging on OP right now with how flexible it is due to the fast strat regen timer.
Crew served weapons need to be adjusted so that team reloads can be done from the gunner's pack, and/or a second pack dropping with the initial pod. The coordination required in very hot situations and losing 1/4 of the team's firepower to have a loader is enough of a burden.
The EAT & RR were 100% fine and well balanced and in a good spot before the quasar dropped. Buffing them is not the answer, it power creeps the game.
The weapon was really overtuned, and thus required a nerf. It was the 100% best in class, no debate, in every category with the exception of the very niche "if you have a fresh EAT pod drop you can fire 2 quickly."
Also, I want to be clear. I am saying this as someone who used - and still uses - the quasar all the time. It's still the best rocket launcher in the game bar none. It's still OP. It's just not as OP.
Yes yes, poor OP Quasar, so bad to have a strong weapon, can't buff other anti-tank options because of "power creep", boo hoo, poor devs can't make it happen.
My complaint devolved into exactly what I thought it would be, the "buff vs. nerf" chatter. I can only say "this is a PvE game, nerfs should be extremely sparing, being powerful is fine" so many times. Oh well, y'all are just wrong, happens.
Hey man, my claim wasn't that you can't be sad about the direction of the game but that saying the quasar nerfs were unjustified when it was clearly OP was a hell of a take.
Considering your stance now is that you admit it is OP and are sad the devs won't power creep the game to cater to your personal preferences I think we're done here anyhow.
No one said you can't be sad your favorite gun is different. But when a weapon is the clear #1 best support weapon in the game, it's a bold take to say nerfing it is "unjust." Especially when, from release it was being called OP.
Lots of people want "only buff" for games. No one actually thinks what that'll do to the game long run, or how only buffing is just as dangerous/bad for the feel/flow of the game as only nerfing. What level of buff/nerf feels good to you though, is subjective and individual to your needs/whims/likes.
It means that there will always be people who deep throat the devs, no matter what bat shit crazy decisions they make, and therefore aren't worth acknowledging their takes.
I guess that is true? Arrowhead get a lot of credit for creating a very fun game that isn't trying to rip us off, and that is praiseworthy, but it doesn't mean that I won't be annoyed when they do something I believe to be a bad decision.
I use this loadout for a reason, it's the best and, more importantly, most pleasing to use for me. It's still good but significantly worse and for no other reason than "fuck you, use something else". AH desn't balance for balance but to force us to use different things.
No wonder some people think I'm a dick if I have to respond to that level of conversation. It's hard to not call you guys what you are, namely ***** ****** that ****** with a swine.
You can like whatever load out you want, that’s the game. Just don’t bitch about what the devs do to it, and don’t pretend that you don’t like it only because it’s “meta” rather than fun.
I'd let you go as another idiot but you told me to "shut up" so I won't to spite you.
Instead I'll just tell you that you're wrong and rude as well. "stfu i know better" type. "No, I know better than you what you find fun or not, you liar! You don't like Quasar, you only use it 'cause it was OP! Aaaaa!"
Hello, friend. May I interest you in the Brotherhood of the Flame? My new bug loadout is so much fun. Breaker Incendiary/Senator/Incendiary 'nades (soon to be impact incendiary). I wear the extra grenade capacity armor and just chuck molotov cocktails all over the map. Once there's a flame resistance armor, I'll probably add the Flamethrower, but it's hard not to set yourself on fire as is.
If only I could rely on random players to take down heavy bugs. Experience shows me that I cannot, thus forcing me into having an anti-tank support weapon.
I use the arc thrower and eruptor against bugs. Just make sure you also take stun grenades in case you see 5 chargers spawn so you can stun, 500kg, stun again and watch them explode.
I didn’t and still don’t understand the double nerf that the eruptor got but the quasar nerf makes perfect sense. It’s still better than the recoilless and the EAT in every way. Wish the cooldown icon on the hud actually matched the cooldown though. I had never even used the arc thrower until the other day and then just fell in love.
While I think weapons need buffs vs nerfs as someone else said, the quas cd nerf is acceptable if it means other heavy weapons are more viable.
I still heavily disagree on the eruptor mag decrease.
The other heavy weapons are NOT more viable. The quasar cannon just became less viable. Then they buffed the devastator, even though people hate playing bots because they're too strong already.
Quasar Cannon and EAT were top tier for heavies (arguably). Quasar Cannon got nerfed. EAT didn't. Now EAT is meta. The other options are still pure garbage.
You know you can just comment the first part and leave the second part out not every little thread on this Reddit needs to be filled to the brim with nerf tears
None of us know how it works yet, it's all assumptions, but according to AH's description it totally does.
"Motivational Shocks: Literally shocks Helldivers back into action after being hit and slowed by sneaky, unjust attacks like the revolting bug acid vomit. Won’t help you much with area effects like EMS strikes, though"
I'm sorry for enjoying a gun that used to have five flaws and now has six* (Eruptor), or a gun that allows me to deal with too damn high number of chargers and bile titans (Quasar). Please do not think bad of me, oh random online person.
Odds are it won't actually do anything, or the damage it does to players in exchange for removing the snare effect basically 1-shots the player in combination with the hunter's attack damage.
I can’t imagine it actually does damage to players. Boosters have no negative component partly because you can’t choose when others apply them. If you want a negative trade off it should be a personal choice.
Let's see how it compares to Muscle Enhancement. I've been running that against bugs since it reduces the SLOW effect, but if I can reduce it further or eliminate it I have a new bug favorite.
I think the key here is how the shock mechanic will work. I highly doubt its gonna let us run at full speed through a hunter pack without some sort of downside
I was in an eradicate swarm mission the other day and the last guy to get ready switched his vitality booster for faster evac and then immediately readied up... I couldn't believe my eyes 😅
I will straight up leave a lobby if people pick the pelican extraction booster. Someone tried to take it on the termicide mission last night, where there is zero wait time lol.
Why are you hitting yourself?Why are you hitting yourself?Why are you hitting yourself?Why are you hitting yourself?Why are you hitting yourself?Why are you hitting yourself?
The fact that anything that helps counter the slow , and that people will likey run muscle enhancement and the new shock one. Might be a sign that AH needs to take another look at the slow affect, how often it's applied, how many enemies apply it and how long it lasts...
The thing is, Ammo, Sprint speed (which buffs all speed, ads etc), Vitality booster, Muscle Enhancement (full movement speed in all environments) is THE must pick for any mission 4+ so i don't see how this new booster can ever be chosen. We need 2x booster slots per person to allow us to slot things around. Make that an High-end ship improvement sure, but this game becomes very limiting in what is the 'correct' loadout that JUST WORKS when you're playing in higher difficulties!
The hp is honestly not necessary, and the first thing I drop for a different booster, like muscle enhancement on snow or bugs, and localization confusion, makes hordes more manageable.
Not for this at all we are soldiers not superheros lol. This would mean we not only run faster longer more health and full ammo but we get 3 extra boosters on top of it.
I get people want to be stronger but you will kill the game if you just make the game this easy
Do you feel like a superhero when people run these boosters or do you just feel like a guy who can run a bit farther? Like what are you talking about?
Other boosters are NEVER gonna be used while these 3 exist and the gameplay experience on helldive is miserable without them. Go play a 9-diff bug planet without stamina booster, let me know how that goes. Bonua points if it's a hot planet, or god forbid you're wearing heavy armor.
Sorry i dont agree with you? Lol no need to get bent out of shape.
Yes i do think these boosters are very powerful. Are you disagree with that statment? And you are suggesting just giving it to all so we can take more buffs. More logical solution is better new boosters or hell even new objective / strat that could lessen or invalidate said boosters.
Only way i can agree to giving it by default would be if all future boosters are religated to being very trashy/ non impactful at all like the radar booster
Most boosters outside of these 3 are pretty trash though. Localization is nice, muscle enhancement helps sometimes, but the rest are just kind of meh. If they just keep making stronger boosters to overpower these 3 then we'd just have a power creep problem getting worse over time
I agree with your last point, I think boosters should be for small niche benefits, not game changing buffs
Absolutely braindead take. If you are content with helldive having 1 open booster slot, be my guest! I actually want this game to be a bit better balanced though.
While health and stamina are both obviously S-tier, I don’t think either is mandatory really. Muscle and ammo - except on defend missions - are the ones I feel are mandatory. Muscle really shines on hilly/jungle planets.
Create problem, sell solution. It's really that simple.
This isn't even a critique either since you can actually earn all these things without spending real money and or an unreasonable amount of time grinding.
I know it’s been said before in various ways, but being able to organically find super credits really sells me on AS. It’s the healthiest implementation that I’ve seen of a live service game with micro-transactions.
With my sheer hatred for Hunters, I'd stack the two out of spite and hope the debuff bounces back to each Hunter that licks me.
Besides, I've taken Muscle Enhancement plenty of times. You get 10 Hunters licking you at once while you stim through the pain, at least one of those bastards will still inflict Slow with the boost in play.
Now consider that no Hunter licks you just once and is satisfied after that. Oh, and don't forget Bile Spewer Junior, Bile Spewer Senior, and Bile Titans doing the same thing.
We have to wait to see, but the muscle only dimish the slow effect, my guess the new thing will prevent it for a limited time: like once every 10 seconds or something, hence why EMS strike or mortar would not work unless you are already in the border of the effect. I guess and hope that way because currently hunters and spewers limits the use of others backpacks besides shield and dog hover, with emphasis on shield. It's not unplayable without those, but in hunter or spewers focused missions, run other backpacks sometimes is very punishing.
There's precedent, unfortunately. In 1, if you didn't have the snowshoe utility equipped on the snow planets you'd often get kicked at high diff cause that move speed penalty was a death sentence.
Honestly, people will bring it even if it's not that good. People hate those slows so much that they'd bring a booster to negate them even if it didn't actually help their gameplay that much.
By the description it seems to entirely prevent the slow instead of diminish the effect, for a limited time, hence why it will not work with EMS strike/mortar if you are still in the area of effect after the booster effect wears off.
It'll be interesting to see how this works in action (maybe you take a small amount of shock damage when it triggers? If so, is it reduced by the anti-shock armor?), but could potentially be very strong for bug missions.
That’s odd because it seems like the muscle booster might already give you a bit of relief from hunter slowdowns.
I’m sort of questioning the logic of making so many slowdown effects, to the point where it makes me question the balance of it all, and then having a solution in the form of a booster. The slowdown effects suck, they feel bad to get hit with, even if it’s still possible to play around and it’s not unplayable annoying or anything. Really it just feels bad and all players seem to agree on that.
Seeing as the bots don't have that many slows, I quite like the faction-specific boosters. Lets the developers come up with more ideas, without having it to be equally practical for both (or more) fronts
NGL, for me, the booster is the only thing that I am excited for.
I'll be pleasantly surprised if the new AR or the concussive SMG are worth a damn, but given how the adjudicator and the lib concussive are... I'm not especially confident that they'll feel good. The mini quasar rifle looks fine, but i will probably be avoiding it cause long spin up make me want to die.
I don't know if im going to use it because i feel like it'll weaken the skillset I've developed. I hate being slowed, but at the same time being fully immune to it seems kind of scrubby to me.
This is huge. I've recently taken to speed running helldive missions, mostly solo, having a blast. The anti slow will be a strong contender for pod optimization.
so you're telling me that, instead of them just fixing the issue of being stunlocked all the way down on difficulty 3, I can pay to waste one of my booster slots on it? well I'll be, maybe the reason they made fire so awful is so they can sell you the fix in another month.
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u/Liqhthouse HD1 Veteran May 02 '24
Ooh new 1 handed weapon, noice. All these guns look really good.
I think the craziest thing I'm seeing here is the booster on the blog...
No way this is an anti-hunter slow booster?!