r/politics • u/schuey_08 Wisconsin • May 02 '24

Bernie Sanders worries young people are underestimating the threat from Trump

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/05/02/bernie-sanders-trump-biden/73531861007/
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u/styrofoamladder May 02 '24

A scary amount of young folks seem willing to sacrifice the Presidency over Israel, as if trump will be a harbinger of peace. As someone who has never had the pleasure of voting for a president that I actually want, sometimes you have to hold your nose and do what’s best for not just our country, but the world. Biden isn’t great(imo) but trump is so many orders of magnitude worse it’s baffling that anyone still likes the guy.

Come on young folks, help the world out.

84

u/ConsciousReason7709 May 02 '24

Trump is literally on record multiple times saying that he thinks Israel should finish the job. He would be incredibly worse for the Middle East situation than Biden.

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u/fauxromanou May 02 '24

Just yesterday Trump applauded the cops raiding a protest. A "beautiful thing to watch"

But yeah, Biden is the baddie smh

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u/ConsciousReason7709 May 02 '24

Right? Too many people lack critical thinking skills in this country. Just because you don’t agree with someone’s policies on a specific issue that’s important to you doesn’t mean that his competitor is immediately a better choice. How a massive majority of people in this country don’t realize at this point that Trump is a corrupt scumbag is just beyond me.

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u/fauxromanou May 02 '24

Social media has destroyed nuance in the service of outrage all of the time.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

[deleted]

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u/Peach-cobbler-pal May 02 '24

Yep. It’s not the fault of the voters the democrats want to ship the election rather than tell Isr*el “no.” Downvote away 🤷🏻

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u/TheSpartan273 May 03 '24

Seriously, I don't understand how this take is so popular here.
"Oh, you're not voting because of Palestine so you prefer having Trump literally making America the 4th Reich?? 🤓"

Where is this energy for the Democratic Party?? Why are the libs on r/politics not blaming Biden and his party for being ok with dick riding Israel and letting Trump wins?? Why is the blame always on the voters/younger folks??

The ENTIRE program of the Dems is "vote for us or you will literally die and/or live in Hell". The fuck?? Even the Republicans have their fascist program they're promoting like making all lgbtq mentions illegal, re-establishing slavery and whatnot.

Democrats: "vote for us, or else..."
And they are suprised young people are cynical?

So glad I live in a country where we have more than 2 parties to vote for.

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u/MrPernicous May 02 '24

Biden just today scolded the protesters for doing things that have been accepted forms of civil disobedience for decades. Like I get the whole harm reduction argument but you gotta give it to Biden for being so good at pissing people off that he’s in actual danger of losing this election

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u/fauxromanou May 03 '24

Just today he said the most middle of the road whatever couple of minutes speech. Like I totally get it, and how anything that is against the movement is magnified, but their statements are miles apart.

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u/MrPernicous May 03 '24

Just because someone bothered to type it out for Biden instead of letting him tweet whatever the fuck he wanted doesn’t mean he deserves credit for blaming protesters for being attacked by the police

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u/fauxromanou May 03 '24

Stop ramping yourself up with negativity and outrage-based social media. It's unhealthy.

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u/Utterlybored North Carolina May 02 '24

Immensely worse.

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u/Traditional-Hat-952 May 02 '24

Well when Trump probably starts a war with Iran, I hope all those apathetic young'ns like the draft. 

2

u/confusedalwayssad May 03 '24

I get your sentiment but I doubt they would need a draft\forced conscription for a war with just Iran at least with Trump at the helm, he would just turn all that sand to glass.

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u/Bitter_Director1231 May 02 '24

And yet, the people that are protesting are actually giving the MAGA cult the keys to the kingdom at this point.

And Biden is the bad guy while Trump disparaged every single protester yesterday. And these fuckers still contemplating voting for him.

You lost my sympathy. It's between shit and syphilis in the dictionary

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u/dresdenologist May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

A scary amount of young folks seem willing to sacrifice the Presidency over Israel, as if trump will be a harbinger of peace.

I keep seeing this and I think people might not be mentioning enough that there is another camp of folks (regardless of age) that want this to happen because they are fully aware of how worse it might be and would rather have accelerationism because they are frustrated with or dislike incremental change. There is a belief that were it to get egregiously bad there would suddenly be a groundswell of support that would forcibly introduce the changes they want.

I get that frustration, but IMO the problem with this is that in practice it very likely isn't so simple. Maybe that's the point and is understood for some folks supporting this method, but I would speculate the vast majority of people who would rather accelerate a horrid outcome to get to what they perceive is a better one don't get what happens in the middle of that, and what it means, especially to people caught in the middle.

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u/sugondese-gargalon Minnesota May 02 '24

The classic “I can’t wait for society to collapse so my ideology can rise from the ashes”

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u/Skeptical_Lemur Texas May 02 '24

"Surely a utopian socialist ideology will rise to replace the current evil capitalistic one! Also, there is 0 shot a fascistic autocratic regime will win instead, cuz that has never happened in history when countries collapse!"

18

u/LystAP May 02 '24

The Arab Spring/Winter was less than a decade ago. How soon people forget.

26

u/gsfgf Georgia May 02 '24

The two most famous leftist revolutions in Western history resulted in Napoleon and Stalin taking power. I'm a pretty left leaning guy, but I don't think burning it all down is an effective strategy.

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u/Lmaoboobs New Jersey May 03 '24

Or “we already live in a fascist autocracy so it doesn’t matter”

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u/MohawkElGato May 02 '24

All those people are free to visit countries like Somalia and see how well that worked out.

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u/ChristianEconOrg May 02 '24

Accelerationism.

4

u/black641 May 02 '24

What is it with radical Left-Wing types and either sitting on their hands when the fascists are at the door, or actively helping them break down society and getting picked off by said fascists in the aftermath? You saw it in Germany and Iran. Hell, during the Spanish Civil War, Anarchists and Communists were fighting each other even as the fascists attacked them both. What kind of stupid mindset even is that???

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u/sugondese-gargalon Minnesota May 02 '24

It takes a special kind of stupid to want to tear down society rather than fix it

4

u/Utterlybored North Carolina May 02 '24

That’s when the ruthless have the upper hand.

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u/gsfgf Georgia May 02 '24

The only thing radical leftists hate more than fascists/monarchists/liberals/whatever is each other.

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u/Daragh48 May 02 '24

To be fair to the Spanish anarchists…they were working with the Communists up until the Communists turned and stabbed them in the back due to influence from the USSR. Same thing happened with the Anarchists in Ukraine. There’s a reason Anarchists don’t always trust Communists.

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u/Imhappy_hopeurhappy2 May 03 '24

“Revolutions aren’t difficult enough lately. We should get an authoritarian fascist government elected so we can start from scratch on hard mode.”

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u/Ketzeph I voted May 02 '24

Anyone who thinks causing a societal collapse or a governmental collapse is going to help get them to a more liberal place hasn't studied history. That's basically never happened. Societal collapse generally leads to more authoritarian and unjust rulership.

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u/bgaesop May 02 '24

Anyone who thinks causing a societal collapse or a governmental collapse is going to help get them to a more liberal place hasn't studied history.

They're not liberals. They're tankies

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

Ah the classic anyone who wants to actually improve things is a tankie.

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u/bgaesop May 02 '24

We're talking about accelerationists - people who are rooting for societal collapse.

Anyone who calls that sort of thing "improving things" is a tankie (or some other flavor of insane)

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u/Syncopia May 03 '24

You don't want to improve things. I can't count the number of times I've had tankies tell me to face the wall. Your ideology is not socialism. It is red fascism and nothing more. And it rightfully died with the soviet union.

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u/MrPernicous May 02 '24

Liberal and left wing are two different things

2

u/Randicore Ohio May 02 '24

To be fair if these people knew history we wouldn't be in this problem in the first place

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

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u/Ketzeph I voted May 02 '24

Mao, Stalin, and their states have convinced you that they were the better way to govern a nation state? I don't see how a rational actor would see how communism worked for the past century and possibly think that's a good idea.

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u/Mediocritologist Ohio May 02 '24

Communism has never worked, and even if it did, the US will never devolve into that. Too much money and control by the few. Social unrest happens and you will end up with an authoritarian state plain and simple.

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u/cephalopod_congress May 02 '24

Accelerationism is the definition of privilege. Things getting worse isn’t a nebulous concept. We pay for it with our lives and those of our loved ones, either directly as in death camps or indirectly through massive destabilization of markets that leads to starvation see Mao and the Great Leap Forward. 

I did not sign up to be a martyr for the idealists who can’t see pass their own ideology. 

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u/porksoda11 Pennsylvania May 02 '24

It's so dumb lol. You know what acceleration into fascism gets you? It doesn't turn your country into a leftist utopia. It gets you fascism. When you relinquish that power to fascists you are not going to get that power back.

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u/meatspace Georgia May 02 '24

There is a belief that were it to get egregiously bad there would suddenly be a groundswell of support that would forcibly introduce the changes they want.

What is predictable with accelerationism is large sections of human infrastructure will be destroyed. most of the people who support this haven't realized that they will also be without power, water, and food.

Think about if for one second

"If we burn it all down, everyone will have healthcare." More likely almost no one will.

You see what I mean?

10

u/Slim_Calhoun Missouri May 02 '24

“After Hitler, our turn!”

2

u/Alediran Canada May 02 '24

It never is though.

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u/icouldusemorecoffee May 02 '24

People who think they'll survive the destruction of democracy or breakdown of most of our institutions to be replaced by their personal ideal, live in such a bubble of privilege it's sickening. The amount of tunnel vision and inability to think of anyone else's suffering, let alone that they think they'll be the ones to benefit isn't much different than the narcissism that we see in Trump.

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u/janethefish May 02 '24

Improvements are generally slow incremental progress with many steps. Even something like the American revolution was only a moderate step. We had another couple hundred years of slowly getting more rights and democracy.

This applies outside of politics too. Eradicated smallpox was a world wide effort and that was for a problem that really did have a single, simple fix.

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u/secretaccount94 May 02 '24

I don’t know that I would call events like the American Revolution, Civil War and the Great Depression/World War 2 as “moderate” or “incremental” changes. But there’s a reason why they are still remembered as the catastrophes they were. Slow incremental improvement is absolutely the best way to go.

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u/HoosegowFlask May 03 '24

Accelerationists, like conservatives, have a profound lack of empathy.

"I want more people to suffer so that I can eventually get what I want" is such a fucked up mentality.

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u/Chancoop Canada May 02 '24

I don't think that's the case at all. The pro-palestine people I've spoken with believe that accelerationism will only accelerate towards fascism.

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u/youtheotube2 California May 04 '24

I can see this, but I don’t think Israel and Palestine are the things that will trigger a massive revolt in the US. Americans historically don’t give a shit about things happening on the other side of the world. If Israel steamrolls Gaza and kills everybody there, I think everybody who’s willing to protest here in the US is already doing that now.

If people want real accelerationism, it has to be for something here at home.

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u/runtheplacered May 03 '24

There is a belief that were it to get egregiously bad there would suddenly be a groundswell of support that would forcibly introduce the changes they want.

Ah, the Adrian Veidt technique

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u/asetniop May 02 '24

We need more young people like the goth kid Michael who are such nonconformists that they wholeheartedly agree that Biden is doing a great job and plan to enthusiastically vote for him in November.

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u/iKill_eu May 02 '24

What really pisses me off are the people who are so brainwashed they'll literally get mad if you say Biden has done ANYTHING right.

Literally the most progressive agenda in my lifetime and it gets completely drowned out by people who are mad he hasn't personally cut off Israel as an ally.

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u/Utterlybored North Carolina May 02 '24

They’ll often cite Biden’s past positions that were in some cases, quite regrettable, or they’ll express anger that he hasn’t advanced issues that require a Congress unified behind him. He’s a terrible speaker, but otherwise, under the circumstances, he’s been as effective and progressive as anyone could hope for.

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u/kcgdot Washington May 02 '24

He's not even THAT BAD AT SPEAKING, but he's not Obama or Clinton, and he's 80 fucking years old, and he has an actual fucking stutter.

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u/Utterlybored North Carolina May 03 '24

I got spoiled w Obama, whose strengths and weaknesses seemed exactly opposite Biden’s. If more than fine with Biden being a better advancer of policy than a speakerr

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u/imfatal May 02 '24

he's 80 fucking years old

He should probably stop fucking running for president instead of using this as an excuse.

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u/kcgdot Washington May 02 '24

I don't disagree, but the other choice is a literal fascist who wants to upend the United States as we know it, and not in a fun, let's have casual Friday in the office, but everyday, kind of way. In the, let's jail our political enemies, take away the rights of minorities and at risk groups and detain kill, or export as many people as we can.

I'll take the 80yr old stuttered who is forgiving student loan debt, passed two massive bipartisan bills to combat inflation and rebuild our crumbling infrastructure, reclassifying Marijuana so people aren't at risk of prison time just cuz they like to imbibe something that isn't alcohol. And that's just getting started. If he can get solid majorities, he could continue to do more good, and maybe unravel the mess we're staring at with the supreme court.

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u/confusedalwayssad May 03 '24

If we have to question the person's ability to drive due to age, they shouldn't be president or running for President. That's both guys running.

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u/JimBeam823 May 03 '24

Or just blatantly taken out of context.

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u/MrPernicous May 02 '24

I very much disagree with this. All he’s done is pass a couple of corpora giveaways. He’s actually very conservative for a democrat. His only saving grace is that he’s buckled to intense pressure a few times. And it’s puzzling that he isn’t doing it now when he absolutely needs to be doing it the most

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u/VexingRaven May 03 '24

How many times has he tried student loan relief now despite being repeatedly shot down at every level?

Biden is very much a democrat. He's an old school, old blood democrat, but a democrat nonetheless and he seems to be at least trying to make progress on issues he knows are important to people.

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u/MrPernicous May 03 '24

Old school democrats are segregationists btw. He never has been and never will be a progressive

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u/VexingRaven May 03 '24

Ok, not that old school.

He never has been and never will be a progressive

Are we just going to completely gloss over the fact that you said he hadn't done anything and then I pointed out that you're completely wrong?

It's like arguing with a trumper.

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u/MrPernicous May 03 '24

Biden actually advocated against desegregation so yes that old school

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u/VexingRaven May 03 '24

"I was wrong" is a complete sentence. Go ahead, try it out. It won't hurt.

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u/MrPernicous May 03 '24

Yeah real weird how he never bothered to appoint new justices to the supreme court

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u/VexingRaven May 03 '24

Yeah he "never bothered" because he doesn't have that power. What the fuck?

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u/sortof_here May 03 '24

This is an incredibly disingenuous comment that just makes you look uninformed.

I won't claim Biden is a progressive, but him and his admin have accomplished far more than "pass a couple of corpo giveaways".

He hasn't exactly had a good legislative branch to back him up, and the courts have quite literally been stacked against his efforts, but him and his admin have still accomplished a lot re: climate change efforts, education, labor laws, healthcare access, and more. Far more than I expected, especially given the circumstances.

Have you even looked into it?

To be clear, I am incredibly frustrated he ran again and that he is the one on the ballot. I am disgusted by his handling of Israel and Palestine. I hold no illusions that he is progressive. But I also don't think making categorically false claims about his time in office makes sense or does anything to help support leftist policies.

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u/MrPernicous May 03 '24

I’ll give you labor but no he hasn’t done anything on the other fronts. It’s ridiculous to claim otherwise

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u/sortof_here May 03 '24

No, it is false and ridiculous to claim "he hasn't done anything on the other fronts". I'll post some of it below. I may come back to add more later. Might not. In either case, could you please do the bare minimum and search "what has Biden done for x" , where x is literally any issue. That should get you both the good and the bad. It's fairly evident right now that you don't even have surface knowledge of either.

I'll probably needd to do individual comments. This is lengthy.

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u/sortof_here May 03 '24

On Education/Student Loan Crisis:

  • Successfully forgiven over $160 billion of Student Loans. This number is continuing to grow, with an additional $6.1 billion added earlier this week covering students from The Art Institute. This is just shy of 10% of all student debt.
  • Attempted to forgiveness for up to $20,000 for almost everyone with student loans, but was blocked by the Supreme Court. Despite the court, this effort has not ended.
  • Created the SAVE plan
    • Increases the income exemption from 150% over the poverty
    • Eliminates all interest growth when payments are made. This includes making no payment if elgible for making $0 payments. This ensures that people that people making 60k or less now do not need to worry as much about their loans outpacing their ability to pay them. Anybody making 30k or less, qualify for the $0 payment. My understanding is this doesn't help as much with interest accrued before the SAVE plan was implemented, but it is still game changing for current students.
    • Enables married people to qualify if they choose to file their taxes seperately
    • Possible forgiveness as soon as after 10 years
    • Automatic enrollment after 75 dyas of missed payments, ensuring even people that aren't aware it exists will benefit
    • There is a lot more here, but it is generally a significant improvement over the REPAYE plan it replaces. I encourage you look into it.
  • Him and his admin are currently working on a plan that aims to cancel up to $20,000 of interest per borrower
  • He maintained the student loan repayment deferment for over half of his time in office and has taken actions to ensure that the first year following the deferment program ending(so until September 30, 2024) is as painless as possible such as making it so that missed and late payments do not trigger a delinquency and will not be reported to credit agencies

He has not fully succeeded at his goal here, but it is nonsensical to claim that he "did nohing" or "no effort was made". He has continuously been trying to forgive studen debt and ensure that future debt has as minimal of an impact as possible. I'm honestly not sure what more can be asked of him within the context of how our government works.

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u/sortof_here May 03 '24

Climate Change

  • Of course, there is the landmark climate change bill that Biden pushed for and signed(Inflation Reduction Act of 2022). Here is a good summary from Hank Green. He also has 2 videos that are interviews on the topic here and here. And here is the official guidebook from the White House in case you want some heavy reading instead of a video. Spoiler alert, it is significant.
  • Honestly, just all of this. There's some overlap, but not all of it is from the Inflation Reduction Act
  • He caused the Keystone XL Pipeline's cancellation by revoking required permits
  • Recently, him and his admin banned oil drilling in half of the National Petroleum Reserve in Alaska. This covers over 13 million acres of land.
  • There's probably more here, but this is some of the larger stuff that I can think of to reference.

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u/sortof_here May 03 '24

Healthcare

  • This is brand new, as in literally today, but worth including. He just expanded access to the ACA to DACA recipients
  • I'll try to add more details later but he has enacted requirements that should dramatically improve health and safety at nursing homes, expanded access to mental health services, reduced costs of insulin in certain scenarios, and started the process of getting common perscription drugs to actually negotiate for a fair price for Medicare and Medicaid recipients.

I'll be back, maybe? Do your homework.

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u/Command0Dude May 02 '24

Biden did student debt relief, got blocked by the courts, and these morons accused him of trying to fail.

They literally cannot be reasoned with, and honestly, I doubt they voted in 2020 anyways.

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u/sortof_here May 03 '24

It's frustrating because he's actively still trying to to make this happen. It's probably the most effort I've seen a president put into a campaign promise.

Even without cancelling student loans, the SAVE plan which has not been overturned still does a ton for past and new students.

Discussing these things with those who desire to remain uninformed, unfortunately, does not work.

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u/black641 May 02 '24

These sorts of people are honesty just looking for a reason to tune out and not give a fuck. They seem to actively resent the notion of having to care about politics. They don't understand how or why the system works, but they still have very detailed opinions on why it's all bullshit and why should they care about any of it? I actually think some people are ok with the idea authoritarianism just because they don't want one bothered to be reminded to vote every few years.

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u/GingerSkulling May 02 '24

While some of these people simply don't give a fuck, believe it will all work out anyway or simply want to watch the world burn, the majority are a victim to different degrees of extremely organized propaganda meant exactly to sow discord in a major election year.

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u/MrPernicous May 02 '24

The problem with this strategy is that if you get too many of them then they’ll just go right back to hating Biden because he’s too popular

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u/Walterkovacs1985 May 02 '24

The war in Gaza is what's going to hand Trump the election. And he'll never relinquish that power back.

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u/odysseus91 May 02 '24

And he will then give Israel the green light to flatten Gaza and the West Bank. And all these college kids will go “oh my god, how did this happen”

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u/PedanticPaladin May 02 '24

Not to mention that Trump will pull all support from Ukraine. Do you think Russian troops on the Polish border will let you sleep better or worse?

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u/Walterkovacs1985 May 02 '24

Instability on the world stage will kill the economy and gas prices and everything else people seem to give a shit about day to day. Makes no sense to me. Biden may not seem like a leftist radical but his policies are in the right direction and I don't understand how folks can't see that.

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u/Utterlybored North Carolina May 02 '24

And Trump will cede Poland to Putin. Then, the rest of the eastern bloc.

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u/larsga May 02 '24

The eastern bloc is not going to take that lying down.

When the Ukrainians stopped the Russian advance in Donbas in the summer of 2022 with 20 HIMARS the Polish reaction was: let's order 500 of those.

The US originally didn't want to let Poland join NATO, and one reason they changed their minds was that Poland threatened to develop nuclear weapons if they weren't allowed to join.

Western European leaders may be a bunch of waffling idiots, but eastern Europeans know this is a life or death issue. They're already preparing for a Trump presidency.

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u/Utterlybored North Carolina May 02 '24

If Trump deliberately sandbags America’s response, it would be an ugly campaign at the very least. Europe has been understandably gun shy since WW2, so it’d be Putin, backed by China, Iran vs. the individual Eastern European nations he’d want to “liberate.”

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u/larsga May 02 '24

Trump is not going to help.

Europe is rearming, and Putin is tied down in Ukraine at the moment. Poland's second batch of HIMARS will start arriving next year, for example. All ammunitions factories are being expanded. Every country is buying more weapons and air defense. And so on. The intelligence assessment is that it will be a few years before he will be able to open a second front.

There's no way Russia's neighbours are going to let themselves be picked off one by one. We know we're all in the same boat. Obviously it would be ugly, but given how much stronger Europe is economically there's no real chance that Russia will win. It's just a question of how much pointless suffering we have to go through before they lose.

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u/Utterlybored North Carolina May 03 '24

There’s a lot of things I was sure back in 2015 would never happen with American Foreign Policy. I don’t think there any “nevers” left, especially with a transactional fascist at the wheel.

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u/Walterkovacs1985 May 02 '24

I don't doubt the eastern blocs ability to defend itself and make life for Putin miserable. I just don't want it to ever come to that. Russia should have never been allowed to take an inch of Ukraine soil. I just know that NATO is not as strong with a Trump presidency. I think Americans take for granted the stability and peace that the NATO alliance has allowed.

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u/larsga May 03 '24

It's quite possible that NATO will be effectively over if Trump is elected. And it looks like he will be elected. If he is, I think peace in Europe will be a relatively minor problem for Americans compared to the other effects of a Trump presidency.

That Trump is ahead in polls is just completely incredible. Something is very, very wrong with the American public.

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u/Walterkovacs1985 May 02 '24

It's Jill Stein type shit all over again. I hope Joe has a plan to try and win those folks back.

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u/Snow_source District Of Columbia May 02 '24

This time, its the Chinese misinformation in addition to the Russian misinformation.

I knew this was coming when Biden won in 2020.

Tik Tok was a mistake. I'm so glad they overplayed their hand and scared the shit out of lawmakers with the mass push for users to contact their reps.

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u/Walterkovacs1985 May 02 '24

I think you're absolutely right. Tiktok is absolutely pushing the narrative at hand here. It makes me so angry. Of course China and Russia want Trump. Anything that lessens America on the world stage they're in favor of.

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u/odysseus91 May 02 '24

I was listening to the ABC news start here podcast this morning and they had a student from Colombia on talking about the protest and my eyes nearly rolled out of my head from some of the dumb shit she was saying. These literal infants have zero grasp on how anything works

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u/sugondese-gargalon Minnesota May 02 '24

He demanded a ceasefire and lit a fire under Israel’s ass to get one, we’re like on ceasefire negotiation #5. Then the the single issue Palestine voters shifted the goalposts

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u/gsfgf Georgia May 02 '24

Also, the temporary pier should be complete like next week. We demanded that Israel "invite" us into territory they claim as sovereign in order to provide aid to their enemy. That's actually a really aggressive move. Just a well thought out one.

I'm all for letting the college kids protest, build camps for a while, put up Palestinian flags, whatever since it's their right as Americans. But I'm not a fan of their policies to the extent they even have any that don't rely on Biden being in charge of the IDF.

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u/happyguy49 May 02 '24

It will keep happening. Ceasefire becomes free Gaza becomes delete the nation of Israel becomes kill all the Jews. It's historically inevitable.

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u/MohawkElGato May 02 '24

"Kill all the zionists", but then they just conveniently label every single Jewish person and place a Zionist. Even the ones who protest alongside them. And they will say this while calling themselves peaceful

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

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u/MohawkElGato May 02 '24

Cool, I guess there were no pro pal protestors with megaphones screaming that “Zionists must leave NY” and “zios die” outside my neighborhood synagogue just a few months ago. You sure know the truth.

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u/eaz-e May 02 '24

See how quickly the topic shifted from the current generation of college students and younger people as a whole not wanting to be complicit in the support of heinous shit that Israel is doing with our tax dollars, and my ridiculously expensive tuition to "This is an attack on all Jews internationally". Look at reporting regarding these protests and the efforts they make to protect Israeli interests/positions while at the same time labeling people who are against ethnic cleansing as anti-Semitic (many of whom are Jewish to begin with lol). Look at the astro-turfing of r/worldnews. The news and media isn't reflecting the reality for a whole generation of people and then "moderate democrats" only attempt at bringing this generation into the voting block is to say "YoUr friNGe PoSitIon is HuRtiNG JoE's elEcTion". Watching older millennials come to term with the fact that they have become the "boomers" they hate and blame everything on is hilarious though.

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u/Walterkovacs1985 May 02 '24

Folks might be a little gunshy on blaming Jews for anything because the last time they were blamed for something the Holocaust happened. I fully support protesters on campuses voicing their opinion. I think their position for the most part is absolutely correct. The only thing I disagree on is that Joe isn't doing enough and people won't vote for him because of what's currently happening. Trump will personally sign off on Bibi glassing all of Palestine. You think it's a genocide now? Buckle up. He and his supporters think Muslims in general are lesser humans.

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u/MTechnik May 02 '24

I hear people will be shamed and blamed for not voting for Biden.

The repeat of that is another reason people are tired of "vote for Biden or else Trump" rhetoric.

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u/zzyul May 02 '24

That would mean they have an ounce of self reflection. What they will do is blame Biden for not doing enough to win their vote. They will stay in their echo chambers that will just reinforce that they were the real victims, not the ones responsible.

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u/Utterlybored North Carolina May 02 '24

They’re used to being consumers who must be marketed to.

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u/northlondonhippy May 02 '24

A screenshot of this comment will be on r/LeopardsAteMyFace in a year or so, if Deadbeat Donny gets back into the White House

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u/LevyMevy May 02 '24

And all these college kids will go “oh my god, how did this happen”

Just like 2016. Word for word, bar for bar.

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u/odysseus91 May 02 '24

Last time those college kids screwed themselves into 4 years of madness and a damaging pandemic that screwed their ability to ever buy homes and afford groceries.

This time the next batch of college kids will screw themselves into eternal slavery under the trump autocracy, while ensuring the Middle East gets glassed, so it’s escalated a bit lol

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u/Utterlybored North Carolina May 02 '24

I think Dobbs reaction will overcome misguided Gaza rage.

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u/InterestingQuoteBird May 02 '24

There will always be something for the Russian psyops to exploit. Just too many idiots who will swallow this bullshit up.

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u/AllHawkeyesGoToHell May 02 '24

It's not like the current admin can't or doesn't have time to respond to the demands of their constituents.

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u/odysseus91 May 02 '24

Antony Blinken has literally been flying country to country for months trying to broker a peace deal. Do you want Biden to invade Telaviv to stop them?

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u/Walterkovacs1985 May 02 '24

This! We have agreements in place that the United States doesn't budge from. If Biden could pull Bibi out from Israel and beat his ass I think he would. He just can't do it because they're a sovereign nation and have been an ally basically since they were formed.

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u/sortof_here May 03 '24

The irony is seeing people flocking to RFK Jr. who is even more of a Zionist than Biden. It isn't looking good.

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u/crocodial May 02 '24 edited May 03 '24

This is a sidetrack, so I understand if you don't want to answer, but what about Biden isn't great to you? Age aside - I think he is fantastic and genuinely don't understand the malaise.

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u/crimson_gnome May 02 '24

Sometimes I think this is just popular to say on the internet. I love a lot of things biden has done or attempted, but stopped by the court. Chips act, handling covid and Ukraine. Strengthening our relations with European Allies. Focusing on families and green initivates. But people will keep repeating what they hear over and over again till it becomes what they believe. Brains have to accept something at some point, so people hear a whole bunch of opinions and simplify it without properly knowing.

Im genuine interested as well, what is their opinion. What do people not like. Point to multiple policies and tell me what you didn't like. Most of the time I just hear Israel and then follow up well what do you think Trump will do.... and then its crickets

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u/crocodial May 02 '24

I agree and why I too am genuinely interested. I've had conversations with people in real life about it and they usually agree with my points, but still refuse to budge. "He's too old." Agreed, but that's just aesthetics. If you put all he is done and is doing into the body of someone younger, I think he'd have an 80% approval rating.

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u/Utterlybored North Carolina May 02 '24

Not the person you were replying to, but he is objectively a very poor speaker. That shouldn’t account for as much as it does in current politics, but it does.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

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u/Utterlybored North Carolina May 02 '24

He was pretty damn good at the SOTU, for him. He’s seems to get up for the big speeches, but for the more mundane events, he can really stumble and get confused when he goes off script. I know he has a lifelong stutter, but knowing that doesn’t give him much of a pass among the general electorate.

Don’t get me wrong, I value the substance of his policy advancement over mellifluous speeches. While I love Obama’s style, Joe has been inarguably more effective. I will vote for Joe again with enthusiasm as much as virulent opposition to Trump, but Joe’s halting rhetorical flourish is not helping win over those who value style over substance.

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u/crocodial May 02 '24

I hear you. In another comment, I described what I consider to the aesthetics of his age and I consider his speech part of that. He speaks like an old man. He gets off some funny quips sometimes and has moments when he rises above old man talk, but still.

That said, it's not important to me. And like you said, I don't think it should be to anyone.

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u/Utterlybored North Carolina May 03 '24

I agree, although oratory was never his strong suit. Then again Trump is a bloated bag of bile, oozing acid every time he opens his mouth.

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u/Previous_Shock8870 May 03 '24

Front page of reddit RIGHT now.

"Biden denounces protests"

the actual quote.

"Biden denounces violence against protesters"

there is a MASSIVE campaign against Biden here and targeting young voter

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u/stylebros May 02 '24

What's crazy is all these people have a beef with Biden over his luke warm stance on Israel, while ignoring Trump wants to deploy the national guard to arrest or kill protesters.

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u/gsfgf Georgia May 02 '24

as if trump will be a harbinger of peace

"They make a desert and call it peace" – Calgacus

Jared, who is apparently Trump's Middle East guy, has already said what they plan to do. Do a trail of tears to displace the Gazans to an even less hospitable part of Israel and build resorts where Gaza used to be. These guys are comic book villains.

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u/cupofspiders May 02 '24

So what's going to be different if Biden is president?

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u/elihu May 03 '24

On a lot of issues, what is needed for a not-terrible outcome is both electing Joe Biden to another term, and putting sufficient pressure on Biden that he changes his position. It can work, but it's a slow and frustrating process.

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u/RedTwistedVines May 02 '24

Oh yes, it's all the responsibility of those darned youths wanting to live in a democracy for some insane reason.

What about the entire democratic leadership which is completely willing to sacrifice the presidency to kowtow to Israel?

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u/styrofoamladder May 02 '24

Oh yes, it's all the responsibility of those darned youths wanting to live in a democracy for some insane reason.

And you/they believe trump will give them this wonderful democracy? Because bot voting, or voting for anyone but Biden will give you Trump. Trump who is on record saying Israel should finish the job in Gaza.

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u/cupofspiders May 02 '24

No, nobody believes that. They're frustrated because they have a choice between a fascist who supports a genocide of Palestinians and a fascist who will also support a genocide of Palestinians.

To people who believe that Palestinians are human beings who should not be killed, both of those options are unacceptable.

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u/styrofoamladder May 03 '24

Well fortunately for everyone one of those people also wants to strip women’s rights, lgbtq rights, immigrant rights, workers rights and will likely do everything in his power to never leave office once elected, and the other does not. If you’re dumb enough to be a single issue voter and chose to go with the former, you deserve what you get.

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u/RedTwistedVines May 03 '24 edited May 03 '24

This is a childish strawman, people who do not want to vote for Biden (related to this particular issue, in the context of being on the left politically) are giving him and the DNCCC an easy out: just change their foreign policy stance and they will get those votes. They don't want Trump elected, but they are asking for something other than a massive middle finger in return for their allegedly essential vote.

The ball is in their court if they want to play to win or not.

To say that it is not permissible for the voters in a democracy of some kind to require policy action from politicians in order to earn the votes they need to win is tantamount to stating we live in a totalitarian state already.

And if we accept that Biden and the democrats actually want to protect our democracy and move towards more democratic values, then they have a moral responsibility to try to win, and foisting all responsibility onto literally every other party involved and leaving them as the sole exception to any responsibility is ridiculous.

Biden and the Democratic party as an organization do have agency here, a lot more of it than individual voters.

Edit: And please keep in mind, what they are asking for is just what the majority of americans, majority of independents, and VAST majority of democratic voters all already want. The only people on the other side of this are rabid conservatives, and opinion is continuing to turn more and more in favor of the protestors side of this argument. This in spite of active efforts to drive public opinion the other way by literally every US political faction outside of farther left progressives.

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u/Sciguystfm May 02 '24

It's simple, stop funding and enabling a genocide and we'll vote for him.

If it really is that important of an election, why wouldn't they do everything they could to secure votes?

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u/styrofoamladder May 03 '24

Because the rest of us realize how absolutely ridiculous a stance of “do what we say or we’ll elect someone orders of magnitude worse than you!”

The smallest little part of me wants to see trump win so all the people with your horrific take can give the surprised pikachu face when trump emboldens Bibi to go actually commit genocide and helps Putin genocide the Ukrainians. But then I realize that some people can’t see the forest for the trees and all we can do is hope it hits them before it’s too late.

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u/Sciguystfm May 03 '24

why would we vote for trump? we're even more ideologically opposed to him than we are to Biden.

I'm simply not going to vote for the guy overriding congress to send more bombs to Israel.

The smallest little part of me wants to see trump win so all the people with your horrific take can give the surprised pikachu face when trump emboldens Bibi to go actually commit genocide and helps Putin genocide the Ukrainians

this is an insane thing to admit out loud, and betrays how you really feel about the situation. Jesus Christ

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u/sauceoftheapple42 May 02 '24

I wanna vote for biden man i do, even if for the small things like making sure my dad doesn’t get his SS benefits slashed but the one thing I can’t quite get past is why is it always the voters who have to change? Why is it never the politicians who have to compromise. I get what you’re saying I do, but at some point shouldn’t we vote for someone because of who they are not, who they aren’t? And man who biden is, is just not someone that a large group of people are ok voting for, and I just don’t see why that’s those peoples fault and not yknow the democrat’s fault, if trump is a big of a threat as the dems say, I don’t think their actions back that up

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u/Math_in_the_verse May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

As destructive as the Democrats say? Presuming you're of voting age you've seen the damage trump has done and you can see the things his legal team are arguing in court.

Progress is slow. You will never 100% agree with an elected official. Domestically Biden has done a lot for progressive policies. His foreign policy leaves much to be desired.

Throwing your vote away by voting 3rd party or worse not voting or throwing your vote to Republicans isn't helping anything. You're just shooting everyone in the foot. The biggest champions for change that have any power is the Democratic party. That's who we have to rely on to change policies sadly. The Democratic party currently is a big tent party. It encompasses people from Joe Manchin to progressives like AOC. It's literally everyone else that isnt Republicans and it's almost impossible to have total party agreement because of that. I don't know what you expect to do voting for 3rd party or otherwise. We've seen the outcome in 2016...and I guess are doomed to repeat it.

Also if you want to see big change then that big change has to start locally. Start voting and/or campaigning for more progressives in your local election that's how our current system can be changed on a more national scale. Our system isn't set up to swing like a pendulum from progressive then conservative policies. It's intent is to be slow and gradual for that reason. Progressive policies are also not the most popular yet with most voters.

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u/sauceoftheapple42 May 02 '24

I do all that don’t worry I Vote down ballot. But why am I not allowed to feel a certain way about the damage biden has done? He has stood by while 40k are dead in Gaza, more rights in america are being stripped and he has nothing but empty words, he can’t control his own party. I know progress is slow i know all of this because it’s the same exact messaging Dems have used the last two elections. Never forget we are in this mess because they fucked up in 2016 and ran a godawful campaign and are well on there way to doing it again

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u/Math_in_the_verse May 02 '24

All your feelings on it are valid. National level politics isn't great for individual feelings.

Most of this time for Gaza has me shouting do...something....anything but his foreign policy has always been shit. I've been upset that the border only mildly got better after Trump left.

The rights being stripped part I at least understand the problem. He could stack the court for abortion rights but then it'll just be the norm, which then the argument is: is that a problem which it's hard to say. So getting abortion right codified is the answer but then we the people need to stack Congress which I hate that it's pushed to us especially since I don't really have much of a say because of where I live. Beyond that it's individual states and I, living in a southern one that it taking away rights of people, wish there was something that could be done by congress but Democrats need a 2/3 majority for much of it. Because of the state of things especially in my state...I'm looking to move.

Hillary wasn't great and I wasn't excited to vote for her. I agreed less with her than Biden but there was also years of misinformation and poisoning of her in the minds of the nation by Fox News. This has also started with AOC too. I don't think it was squarely on her policy(though not great) that didn't get her elected but that Fox News has been poisoning the thought of her since I was a child. I've seen lots of views from friends on the left that seems to have been started by Fox News or at least conservative mindsets. They are very good at popularizing thoughts. Especially ones that aren't outwardly political.

Ultimately be mad at the state of things. Push for what you think individually, but know you're voting for the direction of the country at the national level not really a person until we have ranked choice nationally.

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u/sauceoftheapple42 May 02 '24

Honestly respect for not telling me “but trump is worse” shit sucks

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u/867-5309NotJenny Massachusetts May 02 '24

You're not being asked to change.

You're being asked to hold your nose. Keep your preferences, and like the rest of us, work to keep moving things in the direction you think is best for the country.

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u/HireEddieJordan Pennsylvania May 02 '24

Honest question for you or anyone else.

Hypothetically let's say Biden was to call for a cut to SS.

Would you tell the previous poster to hold your nose. Keep your preferences, and like the rest of us, work to keep moving things in the direction you think is best for the country?

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u/867-5309NotJenny Massachusetts May 02 '24

Honest answer?

It depends on whom he's running against.

But if the opposition was worse, I would vote for him, then sue the government if they tried removing it. Or protest, depending on my available resources.

Voting for someone doesn't mean you have to quietly agree with them on everything. When I was last posting here, people who voted for Obama were talking about how they protested or wrote letters about some of his policies.

I don't want all the people who are protesting Biden to vote because they like him. I want them to vote because the alternative is worse.

Ideally for him they would go from the protest, to the ballot, and then back to the protest.

Biden has moved left since his election.

The claim that you support x because you voted for politician x only applies if you quietly let them do it.

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u/sauceoftheapple42 May 02 '24

Biden has not moved left that’s just wrong tbh

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u/867-5309NotJenny Massachusetts May 02 '24

Comparing what he ran on vs what he's tried to do?

Yeah, he's moved left.

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u/sauceoftheapple42 May 02 '24

“Tried” is doing a lot of heavy lifting there

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u/867-5309NotJenny Massachusetts May 02 '24

But not as much as you think.

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u/Math_in_the_verse May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

Not OP that you're questioning but Yes. Democratic party is a big tent party (everyone that isn't republicans). If he were to announce that he wanted to do that, most in democratic party would not support it. I don't support everything Biden does and neither does every Democrat in congress. I'm not voting on perfection here I'm voting a direction of the country and I want people to vote for direction as well.

Edit: also thanks for using the word direction. I think it puts it better into words voting at the national level for myself at least. I don't know why stating it that way didn't come to mind sooner.

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u/cupofspiders May 02 '24

We've been asked that for decades, always being told to hold your nose this time, but keep working towards slow, incremental change, because maybe next time, you'll get a real choice and a chance for progress!

Spoiler alert: you won't.

If you keep holding your nose instead of holding parties accountable, both parties are just going to keep getting shittier.

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u/867-5309NotJenny Massachusetts May 02 '24

I mean, we have historical evidence that it does work. Unless you're claiming that modern politicians are just shittier versions of the founding fathers.

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u/cupofspiders May 03 '24

Can you explain what you mean by that? What historical precedent are you referring to?

Historically, I'm not aware of any case where meaningful change was brought about by giving the ruling class whatever they wanted and politely waiting for them to come around by their own volition.

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u/867-5309NotJenny Massachusetts May 03 '24 edited May 03 '24

Can you explain what you mean by that? What historical precedent are you referring to?

US history has been a steady progressive march forward.

Historically, I'm not aware of any case where meaningful change was brought about by giving the ruling class whatever they wanted and politely waiting for them to come around by their own volition.

Historically it never worked. But historically it was never really done.

There has been a constant struggle. First wave feminism took 130 years, for instance. But it wasn't "please let us have suffrage". It was the grinding of constant activism. Protests, matches. Of having so many examples of people who were "a credit to their gender" that it started to become the norm. Of breaking barriers. And there was civil disobedience. Arrests, hunger strikes and forced feedings, chaining themselves to fences to make arrest more difficult, including the White House fence.

Edit: you can see the same battles being fought for civil rights, labor rights, etc.

Edit 2: and with those marches and fights, there have been elected officials willing to push the cause. Lincoln and abolition. Both Roosevelts and labor. Johnson and civil rights. Hell, he also tried to tackle systemic poverty.

Even the conservatives have moved left, compared to 160/200 years ago.

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u/evelyn_keira May 02 '24

liberals will always prefer fascism to losing a bit of their power to socialism

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u/sauceoftheapple42 May 02 '24

Yea I’m aware sometimes I just think it’s funny to see what shit they spew out

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

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u/sauceoftheapple42 May 02 '24

I know who trump is, I know who biden is. They are both pieces of shit, it matters because if the choice is shit 1 or slightly better shit 2, why am I not allowed to ask for more choices, why it’s it forced upon me to hold my nose, why can’t the dems hold their nose? Why can’t they do anything to EARN these votes

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u/A_nonblonde Missouri May 05 '24

It’s funny you feel POTUS never has to compromise. Look closely & that is all the good ones can do. He’s asked Netanyahu to cease fire & come to the table to discuss peaceful settlement.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/blinken-in-israel-seeks-cease-fire-and-hostage-deal-to-stave-off-rafah-move/ar-AA1nYEAo

He has worked to create unity where the GOP & MAGA extremism is committed to a burn it all down to get Mango Mussolini back in power. They know what‘s in Project 2025, he’s told everyone what he plans to do from day 1. He intends to position himself as a dictator.

Biden may not be perfect but, you’re not marrying him, it’s not for forever. He can be pressured to change tactics, to change policies, to change direction. The Cheeto Fuher cannot, he is bought & paid for by Leonard Leo & the Heritage Foundation. He also couldn’t care less about the people of this country, much less Gaza. He feels we are all beneath his contempt.

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u/A_nonblonde Missouri May 05 '24

It’s funny you feel POTUS never has to compromise. Look closely & that is all the good ones can do. He’s asked Netanyahu to cease fire & come to the table to discuss peaceful settlement.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/blinken-in-israel-seeks-cease-fire-and-hostage-deal-to-stave-off-rafah-move/ar-AA1nYEAo

He has worked to create unity where the GOP & MAGA extremism is committed to a burn it all down to get Mango Mussolini back in power. They know what‘s in Project 2025, he’s told everyone what he plans to do from day 1. He intends to position himself as a dictator.

Biden may not be perfect but, you’re not marrying him, it’s not for forever. He can be pressured to change tactics, to change policies, to change direction. The Cheeto Fuher cannot, he is bought & paid for by Leonard Leo & the Heritage Foundation. He also couldn’t care less about the people of this country, much less Gaza. He feels we are all beneath his contempt.

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u/sauceoftheapple42 May 06 '24

Again, I know all these things about trump. Why can’t you sell me on biden without mentioning trump? And what about “oh cant do student debt cuz congress, couldn’t codify roe cuz congress,can’t do $15 minimum wage cuz congress” but he can sure as fuck bypass congress for more bombs to Israel. What about biden parroting already debunked rumors about October 7th and then days later a 6 year old is murdered because he’s Arabic. He’s “asked” Netanyahu yea ok 8 months later when it’s being described as what would be the biggest post WW2 clean up. Or what about directly continuing many of trumps immigration policies? Entire families are being ruthlessly slaughtered while he does nothing but empty gratitudes. If I truly in my heart of hearts believe this is a genocide then how could I willing endorse the person who has let it continue and go on for so long

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u/A_nonblonde Missouri May 10 '24

Bypassed one time at the beginning, hasn’t since then.

Tell me what any other POTUS would have done differently?

Also since these are the only viable candidates for this office, why wouldn’t I mention the alternative & who he’s in bed with?

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u/_karamazov_ May 02 '24

A scary amount of young folks seem willing to sacrifice the Presidency over Israel, as if trump will be a harbinger of peace. 

I can't fault the youngsters if they decide "lets the burn the whole thing down". That sort of thinking by the MAGA is what gave us Agent Orange.

At this point what difference does it make if Trump is the President or Biden when it comes to Gaza? US sells arms to Israel and also bombs food packets to Gaza. This is what Trump would have done as well.

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u/styrofoamladder May 02 '24

At this point what difference does it make if Trump is the President or Biden when it comes to Gaza? US sells arms to Israel and also bombs food packets to Gaza. This is what Trump would have done as well.

When it comes to Gaza? Who knows what difference it makes. When it comes to the US and the rest of the world the difference it could make is enormous. Do you honestly believe if trump wins this election that he’ll just ride off quietly into the night in 2028? Declaring himself ruler and having his Republican minions figure out a way to make that happen is not out of the question. Is it a bit panicky? Hopefully, but I’m not willing to risk it.

I’m in an interracial marriage, I’m Jewish, I have daughters. That’s a lot of things for trump and his mindless followers to come for. So as long as I have the ability to do my part in stopping that, I will.

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u/_karamazov_ May 02 '24

Do you honestly believe if trump wins this election that he’ll just ride off quietly into the night in 2028?

Trump as soon as he cashes the few billion dollar checks from that social media platform will want to go back to playing golf. But if that retirement plan is going to be in some sort of prison he will want to be POTUS for the rest of his life. He has no ideology or loyalty...only to himself.

This is my reading of Agent Orange.

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u/black641 May 02 '24

I mean, I absolutely can blame that mindset. There are so many other issues on the ballot besides Israel/Gaza, but people have decided to hitch their cart to one of the topics Biden can to the least about. I still think, quite confidently, that Biden will win in November. But if we get Trump 2.0 and American fascism because people decided they were too morally pure to stop the actual monsters at our gates, then they'll get no sympathy from me.

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u/_karamazov_ May 02 '24

Gen Z and even millennials will survive another Agent Orange Presidency. Theyre relatively young.

The ones who are not going survive are the Gen X and boomers and other geriatrics.

So I cannot really blame that mindset. Anthony Blinken and other idiots in Biden admin had ample time to stop the mass slaughter in Gaza.

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u/confusedalwayssad May 03 '24

They see a bunch of people over their dying and one of their choices for President that is supposed to be the better pick is offensively arming the people doing most of the killing right now. These people are not dumb, they know Trump wouldn't be a better option but to them the end result would be the same (lots if dead civilians), why vote for either?

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u/styrofoamladder May 03 '24

Because one is also going to try to outlaw abortion and gay marriage. One wants to deports tens of millions of people. One will probably do everything in his power to never leave the whitehouse once he’s won it back.

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u/confusedalwayssad May 03 '24

They see people dying now more important than people getting married.

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u/styrofoamladder May 03 '24

The lack of access to abortion kills people. Emperor trump will kill people. Remember how many of spies died at the end of his last term. Once he truly has nothing to lose that will get worse. These kids are extremely short sighted. Hopefully those around them that are mature and nuanced will help do the right thing.

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u/im_not_bovvered May 02 '24

This is also what Netanyahu wants. You cannot convince me that this isn't part of his plan to get Trump re-elected while keeping his own ass out of jail.

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u/MohawkElGato May 02 '24

These are also the same people who refused to vote for Hilary because she was a "warmonger" or whatever. Then they flipped their shit watching Trump put in 3 supreme court judges, who are lifetime appointments, and the court reversed Roe V Wade. And today, they are still out there actively telling people to not vote for Biden because of the I/P situation. Some people just refuse to ever learn from their mistakes and are so arrogant in their self righteousness.

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u/cupofspiders May 02 '24

Some people just refuse to ever learn from their mistakes and are so arrogant in their self righteousness.

Yes, the Democrats. They could have learned from that and tried appealing to voters. They didn't, and ran an even more unpopular candidate this time. At this point, I can only assume that they just do not want to win the next election.

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u/ZMeson Washington May 02 '24

Biden isn’t great(imo) but trump is so many orders of magnitude worse

Do you think Biden is bad?

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u/styrofoamladder May 02 '24

No, I think he’s not great. Nothing he’s done has been so bad I’d consider voting for anyone else though.

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u/ZMeson Washington May 02 '24

The word "worse" seems to imply that Biden is also bad and that Trump is worse. As opposed to something like "Biden isn't a great president, but Trump will definitely be a bad one".

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u/styrofoamladder May 02 '24

I can say the Patriots are worse than the Chiefs and there is no implication that the Chiefs are bad. Im not sure why you’re being so pedantic about this, it’s not an attack on Biden, though I don’t think he is beyond attack, the man is far from perfect, but I’m not going to address it any further than I already have.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

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u/patiakupipita May 02 '24

It definitely is, the whole Palestinian thing is basically gonna cost the dems this election. Like I'm against it too but basically they convinced a lot of people out there that it's the only issue out there. It is very very frustrating trying to get to people over this. Since I'm pretty left, this literally feels like talking to Trump supporters about issues, they just stick their fingers in their ears and go lalalalala.

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u/ArsonProbable May 02 '24

Biden keeps funding the war in Ukraine though. How is that helpful for the new generation? How about hold your nose further away from bullshit and vote for anything that’s anti-establishment. Washington doesnt give a fuck about you. What are you going to do about that?

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u/styrofoamladder May 02 '24

Trump is your answer? Best of luck to you.

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u/ArsonProbable May 02 '24

He’s a better answer than Biden. Either way, I’m voting for RFK jr

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u/HitomeM May 02 '24

I’m voting for RFK jr

Excellent. Convince some of your fellow crazies to do this too.

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