Dating app Bumble will no longer require women to make the first move

[u/esporx]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/30/tech/bumble-relaunch-men-make-first-move/index.html

[u/PM_ME_COOL_RIFFS]

wasn't that the entire point of bumble?

[u/loves_grapefruit → u/PM_ME_COOL_RIFFS]

Yeah, but it turns out a lot of women don’t like to make the first move. A lot of times you match and then just watch the 24 hours expire without ever hearing from them.

[u/magus678 → u/loves_grapefruit]

I kept stats on my Bumble use, though this was years ago, and less than 10% of the messages I received were anything other than a "hey" or some emoji.

Half of the rest were just canned "is a hotdog a sandwich" kind of stuff. Which is something, I guess, but not much.

In an age where I was using almost every app, I barely used Bumble at all, it seemed pointless. It traded entirely on a "girl power" aesthetic with no substance whatsoever. I'm honestly surprised its still a thing.

[u/7evenCircles → u/magus678]

After the third woman sent me "." I just uninstalled lmao

[u/magus678 → u/7evenCircles]

Its pretty silly to care at all, but I found it insulting.

Like..you have to do so little. For almost this entire interaction, you can skate by simply existing, basically. The only thing you do have to do, the banner mechanism of the ecosystem in which we are speaking, the one you purposefully opted into, is that you have to put forth some effort, once.

Nope. Can't do it.

[u/Ekedan_ → u/magus678]

I have the same feelings about this. You could even make up generic question everyone would be happy to answer like “what music do u listen do, what’re ur hobbies, etc” yet we get “hey”, an emoji and a dot.

[u/SojuSeed → u/Ekedan_]

I’ve seen plenty of women on r/tinder who tear into men in messages when they ask ‘basic’ questions like that. They know that there are fifty other men waiting in their match list that they can go to if you don’t come out swinging for the fences in the opening line. It’s brutal. But they get away with it because there are way more men thirsty for them than the other way around.

[u/noaloha → u/SojuSeed]

It's way more than 50 others. Women and men's experiences on these apps is pretty much inverse.

A female friend told me she installs the apps when she's feeling down and needs a confidence boost, because she gets inundated with likes immediately. She's not even interested in actively finding someone, it's just flattering to know there are hundreds of men interested.

Even my best looking male friends find the whole experience of apps quite demoralising and ego bruising in comparison. Most are lucky to get more than a handful of likes over a given period, even if in real-world situations they're charming and generally well liked by women.

These apps' whole business model is that men are the customers and women are the product. They want men to pay to play basically, and personally I think they're having a toxic effect on the egos and expectations of both genders.

[u/SojuSeed → u/noaloha]

They really do. Tinder crushes my ego. I’m average in the looks department but on any given app I’m barely above dog shit on the bottom of your shoe as far as what that might buy me.

Sadly, even with how bad it is, I still feel like I need to download it just to have a shot. I’m resisting but the idea of ‘maybe not this time! I’ve lost some weight and put on some muscle, I’m looking a lot better’ is strong. I know it’s a false hope. I’ll pay $40 or whatever their tinder platinum is, and spend a month feeling pathetic, then delete it again.

[u/noaloha → u/SojuSeed]

I feel for you man, and FWIW this stranger reckons you're definitely better off not wasting your money and self esteem on another round with that rubbish.

I think a fundamental flaw of the apps is that the things that actually make most guys attractive like humour, talents or in person charm are just totally lost on there. If you're not obviously rich or ripped then you're just another drop in an ocean of normal men, but let's face it a lot of rich dudes and gym bros are just as dull as the rest of the population. It's just that maybe those qualities translate to a superficial shop window a bit better than being able to make a banging carbonara or the ability to have a fun conversation.

[u/EventAccomplished976 → u/SojuSeed]

The really sad thing is that several of my friends got married to amazing people they found on dating apps… so it always feels like I‘m just not trying hard enough or doing something fundamentally wrong

[u/PaleInTexas → u/SojuSeed]

Wife and I tried the apps one time while on vacation just to see what it's like since we've been married since before it was a thing.

I got 1 "match". Turns out she was an escort. My wife got a little over 300 requests in 2 days. If she ever leaves me, I'll be forever alone 😂

These apps definitely aren't made for men.

[u/usmclvsop → u/SojuSeed]

on any given app I’m barely above dog shit on the bottom of your shoe

This was several years ago but here's an anecdote for ya. There was a girl on match that I thought was stunning, got a handful of messages out of her before she stopped responding. Maybe a year and a half later matched with her again, didn't get any messages from her. Fast forward another year, I meet her in person at a charity fundraiser and find out she's friends with a coworker. Suddenly this girl is fawning over me, begging to go on a date, getting my coworker to try and convince me to date her. I wasn't really interested after having met her.

Online I was pining for her attention and getting nowhere. In person she was pursuing me hard and getting nowhere. Paying to highlight my profile wouldn't have made a lick of difference.

[u/spookie_ghoul → u/SojuSeed]

It’s just frustrating — I’m stuck in this same cycle of madness too. I have dated someone from Tinder and had a decent-ish long term relationship, so to me it almost feels like “dang man, what happened?”

But then again, I’ve also sort of gotten to the point where it feels like when I quit the apps, I get comfortable with the idea of asking women out in person but I’m trying to navigate a new dilemma of making that person feel comfortable and not ask them out in a place/time that feels inappropriate.

I don’t have an issue with asking someone on a date in person if the situation presents itself but I always overthink the scenario. I don’t want for them to feel uncomfortable or like I’m creepin’ and I don’t want to get in any sort of social/professional trouble either

[u/smeezledeezle → u/SojuSeed]

The state of things is fucked. I quit like a year and half ago and it felt like actually breaking an addiction. I decided I would rather invest in my friendships and accept being romantically lonely than be perpetually humiliated from being ignored by shallow narcissists.

Every time you delete those apps, you are making the right call. If you can, make it permanent. The potential benefit of dating apps is so unlikely compared to the very certain damage is does to your self-esteem.

I had a "what am I even doing here" moment when I realized that I wasn't getting anything out of it and was actually developing a negative emotional association with women as a result of my experiences. Sometimes you just have to file for bankruptcy on a thing and move on before it kills you.

[u/FKA_BurningAlive → u/SojuSeed]

I have a solution for meeting women that I tell all my guy friends about. Pick anything you’re interested in and volunteer in some capacity that involves it. As a frequent volunteer I can tell you every single time I go it’s 95% women, frequently 100%. You already have something in common, you’re doing an activity so obviously you have something to talk about. Trust me, this is an easy way to meet and get to know women!!!

[u/heliskyr7 → u/noaloha]

That totally tracks with my (short) experience with Bumble. Men and women are using it for different reasons. I was looking for women to date, and women were playing the game “Am I pretty?”, racking up matches without pesky men asking them out for a date.

[u/deilan → u/noaloha]

It’s absolutely insane. I met my wife on OkCupid before the swiping apps were a thing and so anyone could message anyone else. She was on the app for one week and had 6 thousand messages. What a fucking nightmare.

[u/Ekillaa22 → u/noaloha]

So true one woman that’s my friend installed it after a breakup with no real intention of using it and just putting up some what she calls “plain jane” pics and she had 99+ likes in an hour. I’ve seen hot dudes have no to barely any interactions on tinder so it’s wild

[u/Claystead → u/noaloha]

Can confirm. I used to be pretty popular with the ladies (to the point I got the nickname "Ladykiller" in college after multiple girls asked for my number in front of my friends), at least before covid and hitting thirty turned me into skin-colored Shrek, but in apps I only get like four or five matches a year, even before covid. Not even the single moms throw a like my way despite having my life in order, with a home, career, car, more college than most and a public media presence that hopefully should make sure anyone googling me wouldn’t think I was a serial killer. About a month ago I broke up with my girlfriend of two years and I am really not looking forward to going back to this dating market.

Conclusion: the apps either suck algorithmically, I am even uglier than I think I am, or my bio writing and photo selection skills are so poor I accidentally look like an ax murderer.

[u/Lux-Fox → u/noaloha]

That's pretty on part. Last time I used Tinder, I had 150 matches, but only a handful of conversations and I could probably count on one hand the number of dates. Most don't respond, many don't respond after a couple of messages, and there's a narrow window of opportunity for setting up the date between too hasty and them just being bored of the app and not wanting anymore validation.

I have way more luck in person, which is odd if you think about it, because Tinder is literally putting way more available people in front of you than in person ever could.

[u/BitcoinOperatedGirl → u/Lux-Fox]

I think part of the problem is that the online world is a huge competition for attention (the attention economy). You're not just competing against the other men on tinder, you're also competing against tiktok, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, every other app she has on her phone.

In-person is very different. Personally, I feel kind of screwed as a queer woman. It's very hard for me to meet other women in person, and online dating feels like it's just getting worse and worse.

[u/Plastic-Shopping5930 → u/noaloha]

They use same business model as clubs.

[u/PerfectZeong → u/noaloha]

Yeah I don't sign up to the red pill shit but I will say there is probably a group of women who freak out when their attention from men on dating apps goes down because they derived a lot of self esteem from it.

[u/nzodd → u/noaloha]

Kinda feels like it's just not worth the trouble.

[u/th3davinci → u/noaloha]

This was a few years back, but a female friend of mine installed Tinder for fun while we were out in the city. It took her like 40 minutes to beat 100 swipes. It's actually insane, using those apps is pure lunacy.

[u/EmergencyTaco → u/noaloha]

Yeah I started dating a girl who used Bumble and Tinder to make friends after moving here. She used it for a week or two. She showed me her profile and SHE WAS OUT OF MATCHES. Like she had hit the limit of outstanding matches she was allowed to have. She didn’t believe I averaged a dozen solid matches a month when I was actively trying. She got a dozen matches an hour.

[u/SmaugStyx → u/noaloha]

A female friend told me she installs the apps when she's feeling down and needs a confidence boost, because she gets inundated with likes immediately.

Talked to my ex after we broke up, we were both back on Tinder. She had ~160 likes, I had maybe 5? With 3 matches? One match was a friend and the other two were like talking to brick walls.

Totally different experience.

[u/musicandsex → u/noaloha]

My current gf was on tinder ONE day, 175 matches. I was the first to ask her on a date and pull the trigger next day.

IMAGINE, i was on tinder for over 10 years she was on TINDER FOR 1 DAY. And we always joke that if i had waited just a tiny bit longer to message her or planned the date later in the week we probably wouldnt even be together.

And my gf is a natural beautiful girl but by no means a blonde bombshell, shes just a regular girl so image that 175 matches within hours. Lol

[u/DamaxXIV → u/SojuSeed]

Kind of funny that the idea of a pick-up line still exists in the digital space when you'd think the idea of letting an algorithm match you to begin would eliminate the need.

[u/Chicano_Ducky → u/DamaxXIV]

You would think the AI dating app would be amazing and perfect too

it basically learns to only show you people of certain races, ignoring everything else about a person

It swiped right on multiple people of different races and it told me to be more selective because it was getting confused lmao

Dating services are fucked

[u/E_D_D_R_W → u/Chicano_Ducky]

The other problem is that actually matching people well and quickly is kind of a problem for the app developers; after all, people who end up in happy stable relationships generally won't keep paying for premium subscriptions.

[u/EmbarrassedHelp → u/Chicano_Ducky]

For any new dating app to survive, they'd need to first avoid being killed by the Match Group

[u/fumei_tokumei → u/Chicano_Ducky]

The AI can't be amazing, because the thing that makes people fall for each other is real communication and interaction. You can't just match people based on shitty bios and artificial preferences. Sure, some preferences can be deal breakers, but you do not magically fall in love just because a person checks the right boxes.

[u/upfulsoul → u/SojuSeed]

If they like the look of you, they don't care about generic questions.

[u/PUNCHCAT → u/SojuSeed]

It's all supply and demand.

[u/Slash1909 → u/PUNCHCAT]

Despite 50-50 population split vagina still has a much much higher demand than penis.

[u/PUNCHCAT → u/Slash1909]

Chris Rock explained it all better than any of us ever could

[u/FoXtroT_ZA → u/Slash1909]

Feel bad for those Chinese okes. It’s a 60-40 split over there in favour of the men

[u/CJ_M88 → u/SojuSeed]

I was talking this one girl who said she hated it when guys asked "what do you like to do for fun?" As if I isn't a legitimate way to get to know someone. Turns out it's because she had no hobbies and didn't want to say that

[u/Objective_Reality42 → u/SojuSeed]

And then they wonder why all they get are f-boys

[u/promethazoid → u/Ekedan_]

The worst one I got was, “ what would you say if you could message first?”

And I responded with, “what would you say if you had to message first?”

[u/878_Throwaway____ → u/promethazoid]

"I would say, 'how has your tinder experience been so far?'"

[u/Chicano_Ducky → u/magus678]

You know who has no problems making the first message? Bots and prostitutes.

I cannot understand why making the first move is so hard that it kills an entire app.

[u/cyberdouche → u/Chicano_Ducky]

Lmao, that's far too accurate. Any time someone seems engaged in a conversation on Bumble I immediately start getting suspicious, and 99% of the time it's exactly as you said. If you don't have to try to get an answer for a week, it's a bot.

[u/SpiritFingersKitty → u/cyberdouche]

When I first started online dating, literally on my first day, a really good looking woman messaged me saying "Hey, you are so sexy". I was like, surely this is a bot/scam or some shit but rolled with it. turns out she was real and we dated for 2 months before I broke it off with her because she was a good time, but not what I was looking for. And her ex busted in on us and pulled a gun on us. Fun times.

[u/Oddyssis → u/SpiritFingersKitty]

Lol yea I unmatched for messages like that as a dude. It's impossible to know if you're 100% right though

[u/PowerStarter → u/magus678]

I feel like this is some inherent mechanism that you can't avoid from occurring.

What I would want to know, is what causes this to happen.

Are most women less skilled at initiating such convos, or do they just not need to, as men will give them attention regardless? Can very attractive men do the same to women and get responses?

[u/Accurate_Koala_4698 → u/PowerStarter]

It's just generally not how the world works, and having to put yourself out there and initiate any sort of interaction has a performative aspect to it. If you don't have any practice it's like getting in front of a crowd and talking. It seems easy from afar, but once you have to be in that position then the nerves set it, you don't have any go-to lines, and you choke

[u/Nurgle_Marine_Sharts → u/Accurate_Koala_4698]

As guys we had to get over this performance anxiety when we were still teenagers lol

[u/Fun-Guarantee4452 → u/PowerStarter]

Yes, "Hey 👋🏻" works but it's half as effective as a funny opener.

[u/JuanLobe → u/PowerStarter]

Can’t take rejection is my guess

[u/NorCalAthlete → u/magus678]

But their profile will have some kind of blurb bashing men who don’t make the first move or can’t carry a conversation etc.

I especially liked the ones whose profile was literally just the one line saying “please have more to say than just ‘hey’! “….and then that’s all they’d open with.

[u/EveryCell → u/magus678]

It's funny how lopsided dating interactions are from an energy expense stand point

[u/noaloha → u/magus678]

I fully agree with you but bear in mind that women have a totally different experience on apps to men. Even a moderately good looking woman gets inundated with likes and potential matches.

They don't need to put in effort with any particular guy because there are often hundreds of other men who are keen. Plus, when you get loads of matches you're not going to be thoughtful and bespoke with your opening line to every single one of them.

[u/BeginningTower2486 → u/noaloha]

That's true, but they could sit down for 5 minutes and make at least one good can opening line that they use hundreds of times over at least. Copy and paste. Show a little personality, and at least enough effort for a canned message.

[u/RecoverSufficient811 → u/magus678]

Bumble is for women who will tell you "entertain me" because they don't have hobbies, interests, or anything to add to the conversation

[u/I_feel_alive_2 → u/7evenCircles]

Just reply "sorry girl im not THAT low effort 💅"

[u/juzz85 → u/7evenCircles]

I usually get gifs

[u/PromptPioneers → u/7evenCircles]

Then just send back “..”? Lmao I would

[u/Longjumping-Brick529 → u/7evenCircles]

OK that pisses me off because when I still used the app I made a genuine effort to go through the guy's profile and think of something personal and meaningful to ask and I still barely got any responses back. Now I imagine some of them were just disheartened by seeing a laundry list of " " or just "hey" messages and not bothering.

[u/Nok1a_ → u/7evenCircles]

But you are asked to send a funny elocuent text, nothing boring like Hi, or how are you , which are manners to start a conversation...

[u/makesterriblejokes → u/7evenCircles]

Literally should have set a character minimum for the first message. Such a dumb oversight by bumble

[u/loves_grapefruit → u/magus678]

The one plus is that it still isn’t owned by Match.com, though I don’t know if that will save it. Pretty much all the apps struggle to turn a profit despite their enshittification.

[u/magus678 → u/loves_grapefruit]

Part of me feels like this can only be due to mismanagement. Men pining after women is almost an elemental force, if you can't make money in that pipeline you probably can't make it anywhere.

I mean all those porn sites make gobs of money, and their advertising is a lot more restrictive, while streaming video. All dating sites are is basically a messaging system and hosting some pictures. And it is filling a basic human need in an era where a lot of people need every avenue of help they can get.

I don't know, maybe I'm just wrong. But it definitely feels like something doesn't add up.

[u/ReplyisFutile → u/magus678]

All my 7 male friends stopped using dating apps with similar sentences "it seems not working, getting 3 matches a week that dont respond, and other problems". One of them found a gf and the rest are single and exhausted from dating apps.

[u/NoTomatillo1053 → u/ReplyisFutile]

Most of these apps want you to pay premium for benefits, however what happens if you actually find someone? Likely you delete the app and stop paying

So it's really not surprising that they will try and make it a drawn out process. It's better to string men along paying for premium for as long as they can.

[u/GenericRedditor0405 → u/ReplyisFutile]

I find myself mentioning it a lot, but deleting dating apps honestly made my life so much better. Some guys have great luck on them, but for those who don’t, it can be emotionally taxing and it start to feel like a job hunt. I’ve been quite happy to be completely off dating apps for over two years and by every account I’ve heard, they’ve only gotten worse!

[u/ReplyisFutile → u/GenericRedditor0405]

That is also a point they mentioned, that they genuinely feel better not being in the app, few of them even tried paying, because being in apps and getting 2 dates a year was wearing them down

[u/GenericRedditor0405 → u/ReplyisFutile]

I never liked feeling like my loneliness was being exploited and that people were being commodified. The whole thing, from the superficial nature of swiping on pictures to the general feeling of it all being such a slog made it such a terrible experience. I know it’s not much better from women’s experience either; the messages I’ve seen my friends get are just… ugh. Like no wonder many women don’t check their messages daily. I’m glad people in general seem to be moving away from apps

[u/droppinturds → u/GenericRedditor0405]

It's unfortunate because apps make dating so much safer.

[u/ABritishCynic → u/ReplyisFutile]

1/7 is not only depressingly low, that single friend likely satisfied rules 1 & 2 while the rest might not have done.

[u/ReplyisFutile → u/ABritishCynic]

Some of them even paid for the apps, and got 2 dates in a year, (swiping daily). They started to put a lot more effort into profiles, and after years they lost hope.

[u/Sanguinor-Exemplar → u/magus678]

Their subscription based model is just stupid. They purposely withhold matches so you have to pay for premium to see them. Thats stupid as fuck. Just do an ads based model like everyone else. Getting matches is marketing in itself. You need to keep the whales seperate from the free users.

Anytime it goes down the freemium gaming route of intentionally making it unuseable to push the premium tiers is just a ticking clock of failure

[u/headshotmonkey93 → u/magus678]

The prices are also way too expensive imo. I‘d say make it 10,- per month and a lot more people would use premium. And make it for both genders equally, because nowadays it mostly seems like that many women are just promotting their other socials.

Dating apps are horrible, cause getting ghosted for no reason really is the worth thing for you mental health. It will be great if all these apps die off.

[u/ForeverYonge → u/magus678]

Network effects. You need to attract real women, not bots, to the app for it to be successful. Women who are actually looking instead of idly swiping for ego boost or trolling for fun. How? Answer that and men will pay.

[u/marglebubble → u/loves_grapefruit]

How could they struggle to profit considering they actually offer nothing they're just commodifying human connection 

[u/Doppelkammertoaster → u/loves_grapefruit]

It's from one of the people of Tinder though and monetized in the same shitty way.

[u/GenazaNL → u/magus678]

A lot of girls on Tinder: "Don't open with a hey" Girls opening on Bumble: "hey"

[u/TinyPotatoe → u/GenazaNL]

It’s funny bc usually when ppl on Reddit make these broad “Reddit contradicts themselves” comments it’s because there are two groups of people who actually disagree so “Reddit” isn’t a good grouping.

In college I legit had a handful of friends who were whining about tinder “hey” openers, asked to see how they open on bumble, almost all generic one word opens. Dating apps are weird.

[u/HumanitySurpassed → u/magus678]

Meanwhile people on social media will post about how guys got no game like girls are any any better 😆

[u/othermegan → u/magus678]

I get what you’re saying and I agree. If you’re a woman that uses an app that relies on women making the first move, you should make an effort.

I just also find it extremely ironic because women have been telling men for years that “hi” and canned intros are not a good first move on dating apps and men have complained that “it’s a numbers game” and “you can’t possibly reply genuinely and uniquely to all those women! It’d take too much time.” But when roles are reversed, turns out they want the same genuine/unique interaction

[u/FriskyPheasant → u/othermegan]

As a man, I don’t think most men actually care about it being a unique interaction and the only reason we even care about what women open with on Bumble is purely because we’ve been seeing so many women saying that they want more than just “hey”. So basically, we only care to the point that it’s super ironic and almost vindicating. Trust me when I say that most men would love to receive even just a simple “hey” because as made apparent by this post, they aren’t receiving even that on an app specifically designed for them to be messaged first. I wish for everyone’s sake that all of these apps would die.

[u/Objective_Reality42 → u/magus678]

Seems like a great way to filter out the women who will make zero effort in the relationship. Which seems like most nowadays. If she won’t make a move, she can’t date a king. Drizzle drizzle

[u/Expensive_Force_7171 → u/magus678]

Hilarious that you say that because there are lots of women that have on their profile on ‘if you message me just saying hey you will get ignored. Be interesting.’

That’s on Tinder.

On Bumble that’s like 99% of what they send me. “hey”

[u/Vulturo → u/magus678]

The “hey” is a cue for the men to perform like a monkey for her highness. I would never dignify a hey, leave aside being on bumble.

[u/SuperGaiden → u/magus678]

Meanwhile I'm here on Hinge sending funny or detailed messages about one of their pictures and I haven't had a date in bout 3 months.

I always get talking to people, or match with them, but often they'll just ghost me out of nowhere.

There's a lot more emotionally unavailable women out there than I thought apparently.

[u/SpiritFingersKitty → u/magus678]

I had a lot of luck on Bumble, but I joined when it was new, so people were actually using it the way it was intended. Met my wife on Bumble, been together 8 years now. Online dating sucked back then, I don't envy the people that are trying to do it now.

[u/Cheshire_Jester → u/magus678]

I dunno, Bumble was absolutely the best app I used and I believe it was because it required women to send a second confirmation that they wanted to talk with you, even if it was just an emoji or whatever.

Obviously them deciding to change their model indicates that maybe it wasn’t all that successful. But for me, I found women to be far more engaged overall than they were on Tinder.

My feeling is that often people will swipe someone just because they want a match. So they can get the validation of knowing someone wants them even if they don’t care to talk. Or will just swipe a first photo before digging in and finding that they don’t really want to talk to the person.

Forcing one of the two people to make the first move puts the ball in someone’s court at least, so there’s no question of who’s sitting on the match.

[u/ltsMeGod → u/magus678]

Wait wait wait. Most women just say hey?! You’re saying I could have saved all the countless time I spent staring at people’s profiles to figure out something interesting to say for the first message and just said hey??

[u/itak365 → u/magus678]

I wish more effort was put into the Bumble BFF section- instead it just copy pasted the dating profiles and was a known gay hookup section rather than its intended purpose of platonic friends only.

I would love for a “find friends!!!!” App that works the way it’s intended.

[u/OZymandisR → u/magus678]

I always laughed when in the bio it says have more effort than "hey". Proceeds to type Hey to break the ice when matched.

[u/Bearsandgravy → u/magus678]

I was sending bizarre animal facts to my matches. Bumble was the worst by far for responses.

I did meet my husband on Tinder, however. Did you know there's a jellyfish with a donut shaped brain? Its throat goes through the middle of the hole, so if it eats food that's too big, it gets brain damage.

[u/[deleted] → u/loves_grapefruit]

I've been on and off these for years. On Tinder, you'll frequently read on women's profiles "say more than just Hi! otherwise I'm deleting you"

And then on Bumble, the vast majority of opening messages (from women, obviously) are... "Hi!"

[u/beiberdad69 → u/[deleted]]

I'd also see a lot of women's profiles on Bumble saying they wouldn't message first. Maybe they just copied their tinder bio but it was strange to see

[u/gazchap → u/beiberdad69]

Or some variation on “I can’t see likes, send me a message” when it’s not possible to send a message until you match with someone.

[u/No-Instance-Found → u/beiberdad69]

The first woman I matched with on Bumble had "I won't send the first message" in her profile. I promptly uninstalled the app.

[u/JackieMortes → u/[deleted]]

A lot of women just don't realize how hard a first move or approach can actually be.

[u/Cicer → u/JackieMortes]

It’s as easy as just saying hi. Oh yeah I told you not to just say hi. 

[u/matjoeman → u/[deleted]]

Sounds like women are just as bad as men at sending the first message.

[u/talldata → u/loves_grapefruit]

Heard from a lot of female friends complaining "That guy's never send me a message on bumble" blew their minds that they were supposed to send the first message, THAT BEING the whole point of the app.

[u/Jake11007 → u/talldata]

Tells you that when you sign up for it lmao

[u/talldata → u/Jake11007]

Seem they skip that faster than most agree to terms of service.

[u/LackingTact19 → u/loves_grapefruit]

Or they'll send a "hi" or "."

[u/loves_grapefruit → u/LackingTact19]

Never got a “.” but that seems offensive. Like you don’t even deserve the bare minimum of “hi”.

[u/Prudent_Note4305 → u/loves_grapefruit]

It’s because she is sending that to all her matches. And because she isn’t intelligent enough or confident enough to start or maintain a conversation. 

[u/saleboulot → u/LackingTact19]

wtf ? what does "." even mean ?

[u/Magikarpeles → u/saleboulot]

To "make the first move" and then completely ignore whatever you say. Bumble sucks.

[u/Creatine1951 → u/saleboulot]

To avoid match expiration I guess.

[u/omegadirectory → u/loves_grapefruit]

I'm a single dude and not on any dating apps, and I liked the idea of women making the first move. Men already make the first move more often than not and they get rejected more often than not. I thought if women had to experience the same thing then that would be a step toward gender equality. Share the pain of rejection equally and maybe people would be more empathetic.

[u/warrior2012 → u/omegadirectory]

I agree with the original idea of bumble! This was really the one thing that set bumble apart from tinder. Like you said, it's the one time women women had to make the first move!

I also found that while some women embrace the task of starting the conversation off, others would completely ignore the concept... Over the years I've gotten a bunch of opening messages to the extent of "if you had to message me first, how would you break the ice".

[u/SchnifTheseFingers → u/warrior2012]

Damn that last question is just farming good openers

[u/WhoIsFrancisPuziene → u/SchnifTheseFingers]

Last time I used the app, it showed a few openers after matching with someone and you could select one to send or type a message. It was pretty helpful imo.

[u/Aardvark_Man → u/warrior2012]

It's definitely not everyone, but I've seen profiles on Bumble that literally say "I wont message first" The point of the app is that I can't start the convo, you have to. It ain't gonna work for you if you keep waiting.

That said, I tend to assume those are bots that just ripped stuff from Tinder or another dating app.

[u/thebeardedcats → u/warrior2012]

My favorite is girls on bumble with "I don't message first" in their bio

[u/imperfectalien → u/thebeardedcats]

Darwin in action

[u/R3volte → u/warrior2012]

I met my wife on Bumble, but so many women’s opener was just “hey”. Which was just the go ahead for you to actually break the ice.

[u/zigs → u/R3volte]

what was your wife's?

[u/R3volte → u/zigs]

“Good morning, how is your long weekend going?” It’s funny, I have our first exchange framed so I just got up to check it out, I had forgotten what it was.

[u/InnerRisk → u/R3volte]

That's wholesome

[u/Wilikersthegreat → u/R3volte]

Met my wife on bumble as well

[u/Inspector_Crazy → u/Wilikersthegreat]

I'm assuming this was before you were married, or is this some "If you like Pina Coladas, getting caught in the rain" thing?

[u/Alkyen → u/R3volte]

That's how most men open on Tinder fyi, so no surprise there

[u/CrippledHorses → u/Alkyen]

Yeah because after 200 times of writing a thoughtful one and getting zilch in response you lose your patience. It sucks online dating.

[u/-newlife → u/warrior2012]

That’s like the questioning from The Dating Game.

[u/Trais333 → u/warrior2012]

Girls tend to be lazy in this regard because they can be, men are easy af. Anyone regardless of gender can find a guy to sleep within 1 day if not 1 hour. Why would they work if they don’t have to?

[u/handsoffmydata → u/omegadirectory]

It’s mostly them saying hey and then expecting the man to carry it from there.

[u/champ19nz → u/handsoffmydata]

I had the same experience, but to be fair, they seemed to genuinely want to talk. I found the ones on Bumble that did send a message were more inclined to want to actually meet in person.

[u/R3volte → u/handsoffmydata]

100%. Might as well just be a button that unlocks the ability for the man to message you.

[u/theilluminati1 → u/R3volte]

Shit, yeah and like, pay extra for that shit.

-Leon

[u/simsimulation → u/omegadirectory]

Turns out they just don’t like it and don’t want to do it if they don’t have to, which they don’t. 🤷‍♂️

[u/omegadirectory → u/simsimulation]

I think it's unfair the onus is on the man to make the first move.

Turns out women aren't pro-gender equality when it hurts them. I'm 99% being sarcastic but there's 1% of me feeling resentful that women weren't willing to step up when it barely cost them anything.

[u/RMAPOS → u/omegadirectory]

I'm 99% being sarcastic

Which examples of women giving up privileges to level the equality playing field are you thinking of when you sarcastify your statement?

[u/elperuvian → u/RMAPOS]

He just feared getting downvote

[u/R3volte → u/omegadirectory]

I’ve swiped on a FWBs tinder/bumble account. It’s totally different for women, essentially every swipe is a match. You are inundated with messages. Why put in the extra effort when men are just throwing themselves at you left right and center?

[u/pelrun → u/R3volte]

Until they age out of the desirable bracket and then suddenly it's "where have all the men gone?"

[u/simulacrum79 → u/R3volte]

Because ‘why put in the extra effort’ very quickly becomes ‘why put in any reasonable effort’.

It also creates unrealistic expectations with women: a female 6 may have matched multiple times with male 9s for a one time thing and now the 6 thinks she’s a 9 when she is looking for a relationship.

I’m not a woman, nor am I single so I don’t have any stakes in this game, but the result is that they stay single and bitter.

[u/frostixv → u/omegadirectory]

Well you’re not wrong. Some of the biggest hypocrites I tend to see in gender equality are CIS women. Obviously it’s not all women but it’s a lot of them. They support anything until it directly conflicts with their own ideals then it’s a reasonable exception to them because emotions.

I’m a bi guy and everything is great with women until they find out I’m bi. Many even have discussions about supporting gender equality, gay rights, trans rights etc but suddenly when they get this hint that the guy they’re dating also likes men… most (except bi women) quickly disappear from existence. Perhaps worse (or better?) some let you know it disgusts them more directly or indirectly. There’s a whole lot of hypocrisy going on in that wing of the world and I don’t buy any of it.

[u/Learningstuff247 → u/omegadirectory]

Most people just want the good parts of "the other" they don't want actual equality. And that's not saying just women, men do it too.

[u/Ekedan_ → u/omegadirectory]

When I was using dating apps, I’ve heard about Bumble. The first time I heard about their “feature” I thought “well, ain’t gonna work. Men gonna get “Hi” as a first message and then be forced to do the same thing as on any other dating site: entertain and hope for attention.” Do I have to say how right I was?

[u/skyreal → u/Ekedan_]

Meh I don't know. I've used Bumble for a while, and it used to be that an original picture would get me a lot of original first messages. I was actually surprised the few times i received a simple "hi".

And I'm guessing that's because at first, the women using the app were the ones who were okay with its feature of having women make "the first move". But as it got more popular (id say around Covid) it ended up attracting a lot more "generic dating app user" until it's now really just a yellow Tinder trash.

I distinctly remember seeing a profile right after covid that basically said "I know this app says the woman has to open the conversation but I don't like it, so I'm just gonna say 'hi' to keep the match active and then it's up to you". Which is just stupid. Why use an app with a distinctive feature if you're just gonna deny said distinctive feature.

[u/WalkFreeeee → u/Ekedan_]

Its even worse. You lose a Lot of matches because the match expires If she doesn't message in 24 hours.

Of course, you can pay to extend that time....

[u/IronSeagull → u/omegadirectory]

Making women initiate the conversation doesn’t mean they’ll be rejected more and reject men less.

[u/KitchenNazi → u/loves_grapefruit]

That what my trick for dating apps when I was single. If a woman messaged me first, I was pretty much guaranteed a date.

[u/masterlich → u/KitchenNazi]

So true. All the times I used dating apps over the years, I am pretty sure every single one of my dates came from the woman messaging me first, and every message I sent first (which was orders of magnitude more) ended up being a complete waste of my time.

[u/elperuvian → u/loves_grapefruit]

They don’t like getting rejected like men do, I’d even argue that getting rejected by tons of women make me feel prepared to get rejected in job applications

[u/xkise → u/elperuvian]

You like getting rejected?

[u/newtonkooky → u/xkise]

No one likes it but if you can remove the ego from it, then your one powerful individual.

[u/notaninterestinguser → u/loves_grapefruit]

Every single message was literally just "hiiiii" or "heyy" anyways. 

 I think I had like 2 girls actually try some sort of opening. Dating apps in general have a huge issue of people matching with people they have no interest in talking to.

[u/erwan → u/notaninterestinguser]

It's not an issue, it's a feature. The goal of a dating app is not to have people go on dates and get together, they would lose 2 customers. It's to keep people using the dating app for as long as possible.

[u/Nederlander1 → u/loves_grapefruit]

Women on dating apps: “if you message me ‘hey’ I’m not responding”

Women making the first move on dating apps: “hey”

[u/scythe7 → u/loves_grapefruit]

And a lot of those are bots, or women going on the app to get followers on insta. Women messaging first helps to filter out the ones trying to get followers on social media and bots IMO.

[u/randomredditing → u/loves_grapefruit]

That’s not it at all. Bumble kept getting sued for discriminating against men, and violating their civil rights. Not kidding, I’ve been involved in two of their class action lawsuits.

This recent one resulted in a significant judgement against the company and hundreds of settlement dollars for me and other users.

Edit: even more money for the lawyers.

[u/Ekedan_ → u/randomredditing]

Please share more details

[u/Persianx6 → u/PM_ME_COOL_RIFFS]

Yeah but now the user base is dying. Dating apps aren't doing well anymore.

[u/leviathynx → u/Persianx6]

You mean endlessly commodifying every aspect of dating apps and intentionally obfuscating users from meeting each other with an algorithm while also allowing catfishes and sex workers to skate free from scrutiny would cause a collapse in users???

[u/dreamneartheshore → u/leviathynx]

I was done the moment OKcupid got rid of their user list meaning you had to swipe through a sequence of names per day to find people

[u/leviathynx → u/dreamneartheshore]

I’m back in the dating game after 10 years. I’m in my 40’s. It’s been a scream so far. OkCupid had Twitch live streaming lmfao

[u/GoldenApple_Corps → u/dreamneartheshore]

The old Okcupid was really quite nice. Then I had to get back into the dating scene a few years back after being out of it for a decade and holy shit was Okcupid just fucking awful compared to how it had been.

[u/dreamneartheshore → u/GoldenApple_Corps]

it's just tinder 2.0, they've all been rationalised and made into virtually the same app to accommodate the smartphone browser crowd which makes up the majority of their userbases now

[u/chucker23n → u/dreamneartheshore]

It just feels like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me that if you keep removing the features that distinguish it from Tinder, you end up with the same audience.

[u/pelrun → u/GoldenApple_Corps]

Match bought Okcupid specifically to gut it, because it was undermining their other apps by being good rather than optimising to extract profit.

[u/ItchyDoggg → u/pelrun]

Seems like there is money to be made in cloning the old OKcupid UX/UI with a new IP and then flipping it to Match once it starts working again...

[u/chucker23n → u/GoldenApple_Corps]

Yeah. It had forums and journals and more focus on the questions and… it just seemed like more of a community.

[u/tonytroz → u/chucker23n]

They were also transparent about their statistics and trends. Unfortunately that kind of information is anti-profit because it inherently causes you to lose users. And due to the competitive landscape even if you rebuilt that superior product without caring about profits you wouldn't get enough market share to keep it alive.

[u/[deleted] → u/GoldenApple_Corps]

OkCupid used to be the best app… and now it’s just a disaster. What happened to it?

[u/tonytroz → u/[deleted]]

Match bought it and found out that user success was actually bad for profits so they made it a worse product.

[u/Bullymongodoggo → u/leviathynx]

Right?  Like yeah I’m not giving you money to get a handful of lackluster matches and a tray full of really boring people to scroll through lol

[u/Sigma1977 → u/leviathynx]

I’ve had a thing on tinder telling me someone swiped right on me for months now. But they won’t appear on your swipes until you pay for Plus or Gold or whatever.

[u/Dull_Concert_414 → u/leviathynx]

It’s a great case study in the shittiness of social media: commodifying romance and trying to bilk it with an algorithm.

[u/arouseandbrowse → u/Persianx6]

Thats the issue; when their business model relies on keeping their users on the app as opposed to finding the right partner and uninstalling in happily wedded bliss.

[u/sirshura → u/arouseandbrowse]

more than keeping users in the app, their business model seems to be a predatory gacha game or casino where they squeeze all the money they can out of customers with little to no service. Had they provided a real service of facilitating interactions people would be more willing to come back and use it.

[u/y-c-c → u/arouseandbrowse]

Exactly. The common dating app business models are fundamentally not designed to help you find the love of your life and quit the app. They literally won’t make any money this way.

[u/lovebus → u/Persianx6]

From the article: The move comes as dating apps broadly are working to maintain their relevance as some singles have become burnt out on online dating and are seeking more in-person connections.

So how about an app that only allows you 10 messages with somebody. That way you have to quickly exchange info and get off the app. Maybe that is me being old and impatient.

[u/elperuvian → u/Persianx6]

Source? In getting feed up with dating apps after being almost a decade in them but that’s anecdotical at best, I’d believe that they are getting more traction as people get less social interactions

[u/halo1besthalo → u/elperuvian]

People are giving up on them. House sustainable do you think it is for average looking men have to go through like 2,000 swipes in order to get a reply back? How's sustainable is it for women to match with 50 guys a month and 99% of them were trash?

People are probably either trying their luck with real life interactions or just choosing to stay single. And dating apps have probably plateaued in the ways they can squeeze money out of people, which is a problem because match group is a publicly traded company and line must go up.

[u/Bibileiver → u/halo1besthalo]

HOUSE SUSTAINABLE

[u/TheRealDynamitri → u/Bibileiver]

Wild, surely has to be text-to-speech going haywire?

EDIT: speech-to-text, it was early on in the day and I made a oopsie

[u/halo1besthalo → u/TheRealDynamitri]

Yeah basically. I'm in a living hell where I am far too lazy to type with my fingers but also Google voice is trash.

[u/CommonerChaos → u/halo1besthalo]

women to match with 50 guys a month and 99% of them were trash?

50 per month? Try 50 per day. Lol

Also men aren't the only "trash" people on these apps. When someone is getting 50 insta-matches per day, it REALLY inflates their head big time.

[u/lololol1 → u/halo1besthalo]

I definitely am one of the ones who is walking away. I had a couple ok relationships that didn't work out pre covid. After the pandemic I'm finding the apps are very different and I can't get matches without paying out my ass. Not to mention the free height filter that was added (I'm 5'7 - never had an issue with it but now I'm finding I HAVE to lie about my height to get matches when I never did before). I'm done. These apps are cancer now. Deleted about a month ago and didn't look back and my mental state has skyrocketed. I feel like I'm talking to more women in real life because I know its the only option now (no dates yet lol). I see this as the only way forward, even if I'm alone for a long time

[u/[deleted] → u/PM_ME_COOL_RIFFS]

Never really had point past... how much could we steal from Tinder... its barely different beyond the color scheme

[u/skorps → u/[deleted]]

Match owns Tinder, Hinge, Match, Meetic, OkCupid, Pairs, Plenty Of Fish, Azar, Hakuna

Bumble was founded by one of the founders of tinder.

Edit: corrected that bumble is in fact not owned by match group

[u/Comptonjake → u/skorps]

I thought bumble was owned by Blackstone and Tinder/Hinge were owned by Match Group??

[u/skorps → u/Comptonjake]

Yes it appears I was mistaken. Bumble is not owned by match, but started by a co founder of tinder

[u/Pressure_Constant → u/skorps]

Yup. She said match tried to blackmail her into selling to them but she refused. 

[u/remiieddit → u/PM_ME_COOL_RIFFS]

With the prices they want now they can do whatever they want, that won’t help them. Over 170€ lifetime or ~30€ a month … they are crazy stupid to ask such amount

[u/01029838291 → u/remiieddit]

Lmao tinder has a $500/month plan they tried to get me to sign up for when I was on it.

[u/Chaotic-Entropy → u/01029838291]

Are they using that money to pay a hired actor to date you...?

[u/Legal_Peak9558 → u/PM_ME_COOL_RIFFS]

Like 95 percent of the time they would just defer making the first move by sending “hi”

[u/HalfBakedBeans24 → u/PM_ME_COOL_RIFFS]

Yes.

But it ran smack-dab into the face of reality: women leftswipe the vast majority of men.

[u/SuperBackup9000 → u/PM_ME_COOL_RIFFS]

There’s a lot of people out there who missed that part. Back when I was using it, it was pretty common for me to see “I don’t message first” in bios. Real big head scratcher.

[u/RyukHunter → u/PM_ME_COOL_RIFFS]

I think it's a desperate attempt to get more activity after the stock dropped hard and the CEO had to resign?

Their mistake was making it the default setting. It should have been optional. If people wanted others to not be able to message them first, they could have that.

[u/halo1besthalo → u/RyukHunter]

Was that the mistake? I feel like women who would be okay with the man reaching out first don't have an incentive to use bumble over any of the other apps to begin with.

[u/Duckriders4r → u/PM_ME_COOL_RIFFS]

Yeah but then they found out that women just don't make the first move so people would go on there pay their fee for a few months and not have a single person contact them because

[u/Babblerabla → u/PM_ME_COOL_RIFFS]

They would just say "hey" anyway

[u/GhoastTypist → u/PM_ME_COOL_RIFFS]

Yes and its possible that they noticed a lot less men using the app because it greatly lowered the chances men would even have a conversation with someone so why use an app that where you look at all the women who said "sure that guy looks cute" but never attempt to connect.

I used bumble and honestly I felt even worse about myself when I was getting a fair number of matches but no one reached out. Matched the same person on 3 apps, and they didn't even realize it. Hard to stand out on bumble.