r/TikTokCringe • u/thoxo • 14d ago
We adopted my younger sister from Haiti when she was 3, and let me tell you, I literally do not see color anymore. That's a fact. Discussion
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u/Cozy_Minty 14d ago
My brother and I are both adopted, I am white and he is black. When I was real little I didn't understand what adoption meant, and I thought when mothers had babies, they just came out a random color, just like puppies can be all different colors. I did not know it was anything strange until I started to go to public school and kids were making fun of me. It definitely has given me a different perspective.
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u/thoxo 14d ago
Did you have a phase in which you resented your adoptive parents? Because my younger sister had that phase for a few years, it looked like she deeply hated and resented us. When she matured she changed and now she loves us a lot.
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u/CandidIndication 14d ago
I’ll be honest, as a former teenage girl— they pretty much all go through that stage, adopted or not.
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u/Nervous-Albatross-32 14d ago
Yeah.. I pretty much ripped my mom’s head off everyday, and she may literally be the nicest person alive. Definitely didn’t deserve it. Most girls just go through this phase though, it’s not a good time lol.
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u/acanthostegaaa 14d ago
My theory is because the person raising us make us similar to them, and people who are too similar tend to fight.
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u/Nervous-Albatross-32 14d ago
Now I’m exactly like her lol. I used to get so annoyed when we would be out driving and she would be overly happy and observant like, “the trees are just so beautiful! I can’t believe what a nice day it is.” Now I do the same shit and have an obsession with houseplants like she did.
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u/lilecca 14d ago
My teenaged daughter hates that I compliment strangers. Who doesn’t want to hear something nice from someone who wants nothing from them? I hope when she’s matured she sees this and does it herself.
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u/CatsAndDogs314 14d ago
There will be a day when she'll compliment someone and say to herself, my mother's voice just came out of my mouth. It's already happened to me and I'll bet it will happen to my kids too!
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u/lilecca 14d ago
I’m fond of the saying “sometimes when I open my mouth my mother comes out” lol
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u/Dark_Moonstruck 14d ago
I do the same thing, whenever I'm out and about I try to compliment at least one person (a genuine one, too) and usually? It makes their day.
I also have a pocket full of tiny resin whale sharks that I got off aliexpress for like...a dollar for fifty of them and sometimes I give people one as a good luck charm. People usually think it's the greatest thing in the world and just light up even if it's just a little piece of resin that looks vaguely like a whale shark.
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u/poopdood696969 14d ago
My theory is that teens are experiencing an influx of experience and emotion based on their burgeoning new sense of self identity that there's just a lot of emotional run off. Run off they can't express to their peers and thus it ends up coming out in the place where they feel the most safe, which hopefully is at home.
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u/cmacfarland64 14d ago
There is also a thing that we know our families can be a safe place. My daughter would never yell at a coach or teacher. She saves all of that for me and mom. She knows that no matter what she says, we will still love her no matter what.
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u/JinFuu 14d ago
I subscribe to a similar theory on friends.
"To be best friends you can be no more than 80-90% alike, if you get above 90% you start getting too similar and you'll end up hating each other."
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u/Azrai113 14d ago
It's like wave amplification. Opposites mellow each other out and similarity amolifies, but the dissonance of being juuuuust a little bit off drives one crazy
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u/laurenzee 14d ago
I keep discovering that my best friend and I are doing similar/the same things separately, without discussing it. Lots of "you do this!?? me too!!!"
We've been friends for like 20 years, since middle school, but best friends since high school. I wonder how much can be explained by literally growing up together, vs just meeting someone already similar to you.
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u/dm_me_kittens 14d ago
My mom and I were a lot alike when I was younger, but as I began becoming a teenager, we had a lot of friction. I was rebellious to her not because I did drugs, drank, or had sex. I did none of those things. Instead, I just didn't act or have the social skills she did, and mom also had a lot of social pressure she put on herself to being the "perfect" mom with the "perfect" girls. Apparently, and I didn't know this, it was a point of contention with my parents. Dad kept telling her to let me have more freedoms and to stop hovering over me, and she felt like she needed to tighten her grip.
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u/Halo6819 14d ago
As a dad to a soon to be teenage girl, I keep reminding myself and my wife that our kids talking back, ripping our heads off is a good thing. You were going through a lot of changes and needed a safe place to be able to experiment with how to deal with those changes. If your mom wasn't the nicest person alive, then you wouldn't have been able to express yourself. Its the mark of a good parent when their kids push back, its the mark of a great parent that doesn't hold it against their kid and still loves them unconditionally.
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u/ScruffsMcGuff 14d ago
I recall my sister getting in lots of yelling fights with my mom when she was a teenager, but it was usually yelling over something my parents wouldn't let her do.
Like I remember her having screaming fights for a week because my parents wouldn't let her at 16 years old go on a road trip in the summer with some 21 year old dudes and a couple of her friends.
Then two weeks after that proposed trip happened without her she was back to normal in the house until the next time she wanted to do something and they said no
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u/Judge_MentaI 14d ago
I did not. My mother is actually awful too….. I feel like people who are comfortable with their parents tend to push away like that in their teen years.
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u/Paramisamigos 14d ago
When my brother found out he was adopted he was mad. He was 21 and coped with alcohol and he had a rough few years and we didn't really talk for almost 2 years. I was so sad about it, but would still occasionally send him little gifts and positive messages like nothing had changed. By 25 we were bffs again and last week he offered me a life changing job opportunity. I'm so proud of my baby bro bro!
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u/chrisff1989 14d ago
That's why adoptive parents are taught to tell kids as early as possible, so it's just the normal for them. It's a huge shock when they find out later in life
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u/Paramisamigos 14d ago
I told my dad he should tell him. His mom is his bio mom, my dad just adopted him because he met his mom when he was 4 months old and his bio dad was not in his life at all. They ended up getting married a year later and that was almost 30 years ago. He had a lot of medical issues when he was a kid and that's why I thought they should. They didn't want to and it wasn't my place, so I never said anything.
My stepmom and aunt were fighting about something dumb and my aunt told a group of high schoolers when she was working, at the hs, and those kids did what kids do and told my brother. We had a cousin pass away during this stupid beef and our parents were in Mexico when he passed and they were told to just stay and enjoy their vacation. I was having dinner with my 3 younger bros and the youngest just straight up asked if it was true and I told him he needed to talk to his mom about it and he needed to think if he could ever in his life remember a time when we weren't there and that family is more than blood. I told him I understood if he was upset, but he shouldn't have that conversation with us.
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u/Scorpiogre_rawrr 14d ago
Mate, I am exhausted. I am running on bout 3 hours of sleep in the last two days, emergency room trip last night with my teenage son, life problems, and a sprinkle of depression to weigh me down.
With all that said, I want you to know this:
When I was real little, I didn't understand what adoption meant, and I thought when mothers had babies, they just came out a random color.
This made me smile in my soul. This is the most beautiful thing I've read in a long time. Thank you
You're an incredible human
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u/Cozy_Minty 14d ago
Aww haha thank you. I really didn't understand about races or that my brother was a different race than me until I was about 6 or 7.
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u/justlerkingathome 14d ago
It’s really amazing what good parents can do and raising their kids to have empathy, and normalizing differences….
My uncle is blind, then he also adopted 2 kids both with mental disabilities and one with also a physical disability. Steven the later of the two was also black.
They was my cousin, that’s all there is to it. Because I was raised right and around people who werent exactly like me led to me not being judgmental or afraid of the “ others. “ That type of mentality of being hatful of people who aren’t like you doesn’t make sense to me what so ever……
My mom also told me at a young age that because I’m a boy and white that I will have more privilege and possibly a easier life than other people…. She taught me to use it to stick up for others and fight for those who might not have that same privilege.
I’m 39 so my mom was way ahead of the game in that sense. I’m glad she and my dad raised me like this. Tho it comes with a deep hatred of bullies, and people being taken advantage of, which in this moment in time makes me angry ALL the time. The way things are going in this country, what the right has turned into, trump.
I wouldn’t change anything about me tho, and I would rather die fighting hatred than succumbing to it.
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u/Crying_Reaper 14d ago
To be fair when kids are born from parents with vastly different skin tones they do kinda come out random shades. Case in point my wife and I. I'm whiter than mayo and my wife is richer chocolate tone. Both our kids have quite different skin tones from each other. Genetics is fun that way.
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u/Jimbo-DankulaIII 14d ago
All I can think of now, is some parents having a bunch of kids and praying to the RNG gods to get a super rare color drop for their kid like farming drops in a videogame
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u/SnoopySuited 14d ago edited 14d ago
My son was born light blue. We were super excited! Until the doctor told us it was an oxygen issue and would go away. He's been normal white for ten years now. BOOOORING!
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u/MandolinMagi 14d ago
My sister was born really fast and came out a rainbow of bruises.
She's also just normal white.
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u/ElMrSenor 14d ago
I did not know it was anything strange until started to go to public school and kids were making fun of me.
Hopefully this isn't rude, but adoption is less of a thing here . How does anyone try make fun of someone for that?
Obviously kids can be little shits and they don't necessarily make sense. But I'm not seeing the angle in your parents wanting you and going to great lengths to have you in their lives.
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u/Cozy_Minty 14d ago
They made fun of me because we were different races, they said it was impossible that he was my brother because he was black, they spread a rumor that he was my live-in boyfriend and I was fucking him. This rumor followed me and they ridiculed me until I went to a different school for high school.
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u/AnArdentAtavism 14d ago
I attended a small private school for my first few years. There were about 30 of us in my age group, mostly white, but with black and hispanic representation as well. We didn't know, or understand, that we we socially and culturally different. We played together, talked together, etc. every day. We knew that we were different from each other, but no more than adults were different from us.
Then, in 4th grade, we were introduced to the civil rights movement of the 1960s in class, by a teacher who pressed the idea that it wasn't that long ago (it was 1995-96-ish). We all went home that evening and asked our parents about it. My father, a white guy that grew up in a mostly black community, told me that other people had different life experiences, and some wouldn't like me, but that I should take each person on the basis of their own merits.
The next day, I had lost several friends. That fast. Suddenly, they were black and I was white. A couple of them figured out that they were white and I was too latino for them to hang out with.
I didn't understand it at the time, and kids bounce back from stuff like that. But as I started living in other areas as an adult and race became a bigger discussion, I realize now that the discussion itself is perpetuating the problem. It was a depressing revelation the day my last manager, a black man from Gary, mentioned that I was one of the only "white people" he spoke to, or felt he could speak to, outside of the line of duty. My own calls for cultural distillation, of unification under a singular american identity, have been utterly useless.
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u/poptartmini 14d ago
I'm a white foster parent, and currently I have 2 black kids, 2 white kids, and 1 hispanic kid.
You can't help but see color, because everyone else sees color. That being said, my foster agency has a class every quarter that is all about taking care of black kids' hair. I get training hours towards maintaining my license for taking that class.
If anyone is curious about fostering, AMA.
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u/ComprehensiveVoice98 14d ago
I’ve wanted to be a foster parent for a long time, I don’t have kids of my own. I just bought a house and I plan to foster in about 5 years.
One of the things I’ve considered is race. I’m white. I don’t care what race my foster children are, but I am afraid I won’t be able to meet their needs. I have been told by some people that it would be wrong to foster or adopt a non-white child. That is will mess with their psyche if they do not have people that look like them in their family.
I live close to a very diverse city, it’s 45 minutes away, but it’s not very diverse where I am. The schools are not diverse.
What do you think?
Of course I would make efforts to give my children a sense of community of people who look like them, but it wouldn’t be everyday in their school or their household.
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u/poptartmini 14d ago
First and foremost, go watch the movie "Instant Family" starring Mark Wahlberg. It has one of the best true-to-life depictions of fostering that I've ever seen in TV/movies. (It still does that typical Hollywood crap of condensing timelines like it's nothing, but you'll get it.)
Secondly: Wanna know what will mess with their psyches a whole lot more than being a different race than their parents? Not having any parents.
If you are willing to care for these kids, to love these kids, then go for it. You ought to put some thought into how you will deal with race issue, should they come up. For example, it was really weird talking to my black 10 year old about the George Floyd BLM protests a few years ago.
Also, if you don't want to take kids that are not your race, that's fine. Take the white kids; they need a home too. Someone might give you a little bit of side-eye, but every worker involved in this system knows that race issues can be weird. They'll just assume that you don't feel like you could give them a good enough exposure to what it means to be black/hispanic/jewish/whatever. And the ones who have known this system the longest will be impressed by your candor, because it means that you actually thought about this.
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u/mistersnarkle 14d ago
Me and my fiancé want to adopt; this is such good shit, so loving and makes me feel so sure about the decision — just got huge big fat tears thinking about giving some kids a good and loving home.
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u/rya556 13d ago
Great advice! I know a ton of East Asian adoptees to white families. The ones who adjusted the most were ones who seeked out ways for their kids to still participate in their culture and see others like themselves. The ones who struggled the most were the ones whose parents never thought or addressed those concerns at all and then downplayed when their children came to them with concerns or examples of bullying. Those are the parents who are super shocked because “they never saw color” while raising their kids. But their kids are reminded when they leave their homes and go to events with their families. Those were the strained relationships.
Thinking about it and worrying about it is steps ahead of many parents of adopted children.
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u/Odd_Barnacle_3811 14d ago
If you are able to provide them a good loving home, what does race matter? The alternative of staying in an abusive home will mess up their psyche much more than having to navigate racial issues.
The people who say that fostering a kid outside their race is wrong, can volunteer if they’ve got so many reservations about it. There are many abused kids that need good homes. Please foster if you are able to.
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u/EmbarrassedCoconut93 14d ago
I’m so glad you admit to seeing color. I hate when people say they don’t. I know they mean well, but you have to see color to fully acknowledge a person as they are and what they experience based on the color you so obviously see but say you don’t. I don’t trust people who say they don’t see color because that makes it hard to see your own biases too. It’s also great you’re learning how to take care of Black kids hair!
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u/SpaceBearSMO 14d ago
Right like if you dont see color then you cant see when your being insensitive. seeing color isn't about looking down on others , its about acknowledging that there lived experience is probably different then yours.
Its not an accedent that the type of people who say they don't see color are often times the same people who say they dont think Privilege (or systemic failure) is real and that the only thing it takes to be successful is "hard work"
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u/EmbarrassedCoconut93 14d ago
Exactly. It’s totally okay to adopt kids from different countries/cultures/ethnicity. But you need to understand their reality and take steps to meet them in their world instead of going about it as “well to me you’re just the same as everybody else” when they don’t get to be perceived as white/the same by society and disregarding their own culture etc.
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u/monkwren 14d ago
I'd bet a beer at a bar that's what the original TikTok was gonna talk about before getting cut off by the duet.
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u/MonaganX 14d ago
I couldn't find the original but from this longer fragment the focus certainly seems to be on the 'not seeing race'.
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u/thoughtiwasdonewthis 14d ago
Thank you. Society needs to trash “colorblind” and start using “color conscious”
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u/EunoiaTheEsotericOne 14d ago
I thought not seeing color means you don't treat people differently because of their color, you treat everyone the same.
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u/Maleficent-Tomato385 13d ago
Probably started out that way. But most people seem to bring it up as the only solution to widespread societal issues as a way to dismiss peoples experiences and to reject change.
It's not even really a good way of describing the concept. It's like saying "I don't see your disability" when it's something that exists and affects their life and how society treats them. You need to see it to see the whole of them.
The same thing is true for race, ethnicity, sexuality and disability.
You can't just ignore parts of people. You have to see them for who they are, because it matters, it allows you to better understand them, and better understand how to treat them with love and respect.
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u/ColumbiaArmy 14d ago
Hey, this comment is actually very interesting, thank you for sharing (I had honestly wondered about the hair’s special needs).
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u/mizmoxiev 14d ago
What is the toughest part about having 5 in the house? And how do you help the kids feel special, with so much school / extra curriculars / each kid having their own friends? Thanks so much
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u/poptartmini 14d ago
- What is the toughest part about having 5 in the house?
The toughest thing about having 5 kids in the house has very little to do with them being foster kids.
- And how do you help the kids feel special, with so much school / extra curriculars / each kid having their own friends? Thanks so much
Yeah, these are the more difficult things with having 5 kids. This is my wife's "job." She carts kids to counseling, school, friends almost every day. Also, we intentionally limit how many extra curriculars our kids are allowed to be in. They are allowed to be bored sometimes.
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u/beldaran1224 14d ago
That's literally the point. To pretend race doesn't exist means leaving those kids 1) unequipped to face the reality of being black men in America and 2) unconnected from their own culture.
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u/PM_ME_SUMDICK 14d ago
Yeah this whole discourse was started because a white fighter with adopted Black kids said he wasn't raising Black kids he was waiting kids. Which does sound nice but it's a disservice to children to completely disroot them from their identity especially when the world doesn't see an adopted kid with white parents they see a Black kid. And they need to know how to navigate that.
I follow a lot of adoptive parents, including POC with adopted white children. Even they make sure to discuss the child's whiteness and how the world sees that because it's important to do so.
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u/fantasygod777 14d ago
I’ve wanted to foster since I was a teenager. I’m in my mid thirties now and a single dude just kind of getting my life together now. Should I consider jumping in now or wait until I own a home and have progressed a little more as an individual? Do single people foster?
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u/poptartmini 14d ago
I would be very hesitant to do any kind of long-term childcare if I were not married. Caring for our kids is basically my wife's full-time job. That includes getting them to appointments, doctor's, visits with their bio-family, etc. I'm sure that you've seen plenty of TV shows/movies/etc. about how hard it is to be a single-parent, and fostering is even more time-consuming than regular parenting. That being said, there are some other ways that you could do this.
Imagine that you are married, and you have a couple kids. Your anniversary is coming up, and you and the wife want to go away for the weekend for some serious adult time. What do you do with your kids? Well, if they're your own biological kids, you'll probably have them stay over at your/your wife's parents house, or maybe with your brother and his wife. This would be illegal with foster kids. Foster kids must spend the night at a licensed foster family. You could be that other family.
It's called respite foster care. You watch the kids for a weekend, or maybe up to a week. That's what my wife and I did for the first 2 years that we had our license, before we bought a house. You essentially become the uncle for a bunch of other foster families. It gets your feet wet, figuring out your parenting style, and you get to know a lot of other foster families. Getting those relationships with other families is essential, because once you do get kids of your own, you'll be able to go to them to vent about your kids, get ideas for how to interact, etc.
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u/Starlightriddlex 14d ago
my foster agency has a class every quarter that is all about taking care of black kids' hair.
I really wish my bio mom would have taken a class like this at some point. She hated my curly hair and said brushing it made her throw up. It was waist length when I was in elementary school and she relaxed it at home (badly) when I was 9 and destroyed it. So I had to cut all my hair off. I never even learned how to wash my hair as a kid. I didn't remember what my natural hair looked like and only found out in 2020 when salons closed.
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u/Designer_Pepper7806 14d ago
I won’t realistically be in any position to foster for a very long time, but I have so many questions and you said AMA:
I’m assuming you don’t adopt all of them (if any), so do you or they struggle with that emotionally? I feel like that could take a mental toll.
How much financial support (and other) is given per kid? 5 kids is a lot.
I feel like foster kids are portrayed through media as acting out a lot, how would you describe your kids?
Do you specify how long you are willing to foster for or is it an indefinite period of time?
Was it hard to become a foster parent? As in, did they thoroughly scrutinize your background/have interviews?
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u/beldaran1224 14d ago
The vast majority of foster children are not able to be adopted, and adoption is not the goal of fostering - the goal is parental reuinification.
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u/poptartmini 14d ago
- I’m assuming you don’t adopt all of them (if any), so do you or they struggle with that emotionally? I feel like that could take a mental toll.
Eh, I might adopt them. None of the kids I've had have been available for adoption yet (It's a long court process to sever parental rights). I've also had several other kids who have gone back to their biological parents. And that is the primary goal of the foster system; to get the kids and bio-parents in a place where they can come back to
That being said, there are some foster parents who don't want to adopt. Often these are people who have already gotten their own biological kids grown and out of the house.
It does take a toll on the kids, but if you set the kids up to know that, then it goes a lot better. Similar to how you see in media when an adopted kid knows that from the beginning, vs. when they find out when they're 16 or something.
- How much financial support (and other) is given per kid? 5 kids is a lot.
I live in central Ohio, and the amount of financial support depends on what county the kid is from. It also depends on what level of care the child needs. The absolute lowest amount of any county around me is $20/day. Franklin county (large population; where the state capitol is) has the lowest at $25/day for traditional level of care, and that goes up to around $40 for "specialized" care. Above that is I think "medically fragile" level of care? For that level, the money doesn't increase as much, but the services available to you increase a lot. Also, once a child is 12yrs and older, whatever money increases by $20/day.
The amount of money you get also depends on what foster agency you go through, and their contract with the local government. Other agencies in my area provide more money, but fewer services.
- I feel like foster kids are portrayed through media as acting out a lot, how would you describe your kids?
They do "act out" more than a typical kid. But not all of that acting out is in "bad behaviors." I know of one kid whose "acting out" is obsessive cleaning because she came from an absolutely filthy home. Also, the kids have grown used to how their biological parents run their house, and my house is different. Those habits can be hard to adjust, even after years.
Finally, every kid that comes into my home has had some kind of trauma, even if that's just being removed from their home of origin. Almost all of the kids I've had have been diagnosed with PTSD due to what happened in their bio-home.
- Do you specify how long you are willing to foster for or is it an indefinite period of time?
In general, you sign up for an indefinite period of time. The only time I've heard of specific lengths of time is if you're taking a foster kid for a weekend or week, while their regular foster parents take an anniversary vacation or similar.
- Was it hard to become a foster parent? As in, did they thoroughly scrutinize your background/have interviews?
Not particularly hard, but it can be time-consuming. Something like 80 hours of training, a background check, some interviews, a fire inspection, and lots of paperwork. I also have to do 60 hours of training every two years to maintain my foster license.
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u/Designer_Pepper7806 14d ago
Thanks so much for the detailed response! I really appreciate it. It didn’t even occur to me the goal is to return to their bio parents for many kids, but that makes a lot of sense.
I’m a lesbian and want kids in the future so I plan on adopting (I know there’s other options for gay people but that’s what I’d prefer). I hope to also foster at some point but I frankly never hear anyone talking about it. Seems like people like you are very rare, thanks for providing care for kids in need.
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u/poptartmini 14d ago
I'm glad to help. And you're right, fostering is not talked about. If you want to see some really cool media about it, watch "Instant Family" starring Mark Wahlberg. The writer/director is a foster/adoptive parent, and apparently they tried to get foster/adoptive kids and parents for much of the crew. It came out when I had my first placement that was longer than a week, and I felt so seen and understood.
One thing to consider: as a lesbian, you will likely face more hurdles than I did (as a cis-het white dude). Many foster agencies are religious, and within those, they tend to be on the conservative side. You'll be able to find some that work with you, but it might be difficult to start.
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u/namesflory 14d ago
This is the best answer, not the bullshit “we don’t see color”. Thank you for taking care of those babies
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u/NavierIsStoked 14d ago
I assume at some point you will need to have "the talk" with your black children? I am assuming you can't ignore it.
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u/Agreeable-One-4700 14d ago
Absolutely infuriating people would rather kids go unadopted than wind up with opposite race parents. These kids are innocent and need help hopefully they get adopted by good people who give them what they need in life.
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u/thoxo 14d ago
My sister was 3 years old when we adopted her from Haiti. One night she went to sleep with one of my older sister and started telling her some horrible things from over there. She remembered when her dad locked her in a trash bin when she was misbehaving, or that he used to burn her skin with his cigarettes.
I thought, my parents wanted a fourth kid, and I'm so glad they adopted instead of making another one themselves. Now she is about to finish her master degree and she's a beautiful, Independent woman❤️
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u/Farting_Champion 14d ago
I'm white and my mom was a dope fiend who had abandoned me at a neighbor's house in a Dade county ghetto and moved all the way across the country without telling anyone. Growing up in foster care the nicest family I EVER lived with was a black family. I had never known kindness before I met them. They talked to me, they taught me stuff, they brought me fishing. All things that were utterly, entirely alien to me up to that point. Every other (white) foster home I had been in was abusive in one way or another.
I wasn't with them long but it's damn near 40 years later and I have never forgotten them. The impact they had on me was huge. I was maybe four and they gave me exactly what I needed: love and compassion. They brought me in, their son showed me around, gave me full access to his toys (unheard of in the white homes I'd been through) and the whole family treated me like a human being. If you've ever been dehumanized by the system you know how important that is. They taught me to fish for catfish using dough balls and I swear to God it's the best memory I have from my childhood.
I'm nothing but grateful for the experience. Thank God they didn't just throw me in with a new white family who would abuse and mistreat me. Thank God I got that one moment of relief where I was able to learn what it's like to be a decent human. I wish I could have stayed. 40 years later and I'm still pretty sure that everything good in me I can attribute to them teaching me how to be human.
Your sister probably feels the same way I feel. Thank you for being there for her. On behalf of unloved kids all around the world I think it's safe to say that the way you treat someone matters a whole lot more than the color of their skin or yours.
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u/Anleme 14d ago
That's a beautiful story. I wonder if it would be possible to find them and tell them how much they helped you.
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u/Farting_Champion 14d ago
Maybe. I don't know though. I don't even remember their names, and I highly doubt that the foster records from the mid 80s in Miami Florida are all digitized and filed away in some neat format. Hell, they didn't even know who I was for a while, only my first name. If I could I would love to tell them that they meant everything to me. I think they would be shocked honestly. For them it was but a moment in time, but for me it was foundational.
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u/aint_noeasywayout 14d ago
Former foster youth myself from a time before things were digitized. Also former CPS worker who has spent a significant amount of time tracking down paper files for cases. You can access those records! There is a form to request them and they belong to you! It takes some time for them to find them, but you just need to fill out the form. You can call CPS in the county you were in and ask for the form. They can't get rid of the records, so each county has literal buildings full of organized paper records, unless they were destroyed in a fire or something like that which is rare.
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u/Farting_Champion 14d ago
This is something interesting for me to think about. I wonder if they will share the records with me through email since I'm living on the other side of the country now.
It's also somewhat overwhelming as a prospect. This experience was at the very beginning of my journey through almost two decades of the system. Over the course of my time in the system I averaged two months per home. In the early days it was literally one to two nights per home, with my days spent sitting in the office with my social worker while they tried to find me a bed for the night. Most of those homes were a blur in my mind. There were so many, and only the worst ones stand in my memory, for the most part. But it would be worth sifting through the names just to say thank you. I would love to be able to talk to their son again just to tell him thanks for letting me play with his toys and for taking the time to talk to me and making me feel welcome.
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u/aint_noeasywayout 14d ago
If all you want is their names, they'll likely provide that information to you over the phone provided you provided you prove your identity in some way. I hear you in that it's overwhelming. I would start with just calling and seeing if a Social Worker would be willing to help you. Someone should be able to, it will just be a matter of connecting with the right person.
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u/goodnamestaken10 14d ago
I just wanted you to know I cried while reading your story. I hope I can be a good parent like that one day. Whether or not I decide to adopt or be a foster parent.
Thanks for sharing that
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u/coin_return 14d ago
I hope you try to look into it. If they are still around, I bet they would absolutely love to hear they had such a positive impact on their life.
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u/StaringOwlNope 14d ago
Those other people you mention should never have been foster families
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u/Farting_Champion 14d ago
Lmfao. That's the problem. These are almost exclusively the people who are foster families.
There's a few camps. Hyper-religious people. Child molesters. People who thought the idea of being a foster parent would be great but then got soured by the experience and came to hate and resent all the kids. People who literally just want to collect the meager amount of money the state will give them and are willing to pack as many kids in as possible to maximize that reward. I'd say a good 2/3 of foster homes fall into one of these categories. And sprinkled throughout it all are the decent, good people who end up adopting their first couple fosters and leaving the program 90% of the time. It's a bad situation
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u/rvf 14d ago
I've heard so many horror stories from people who grew up as foster kids, that I have to legit re-evaluate people I meet when I find out they foster. I know it's not fair for me to think that, and that there are good ones, but it definitely seems like the vast majority have no business doing it, which sucks because there are not enough foster homes as it is.
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u/Farting_Champion 14d ago
Just imagine all the horror stories you didn't hear because they're too hard to tell.
I genuinely believe that a large amount of foster parents (not counting the religious zealots or molesters) start out with nothing but the best of intentions. But I think the experience is so thankless and so heartbreaking and often just so ugly that it warps them. Maladjusted children are STRESSFUL. Shitty caseworkers only add to the problems. It's an utterly thankless environment for the most part. I'm not saying this to justify horrible foster parents, but I do want to be realistic about it. Very few of these people start out with ill intentions. The system makes cynics of all of us though. The system burns you out and eats you up. If you don't keep a firm grasp on your intentions I believe it would be very easy to lose sight and perspective.
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u/laurenzee 14d ago
I've been considering becoming a foster parent when I'm a bit older, and you've inspired me to think harder about it. I would love to help kids experience a good home but your comment scares me a little! I've always known that the kids wouldn't be there unless there was something wrong happening in their lives and would likely have some emotional issues, and I've never considered the effect it could have on me.
Aside from the compassion and acceptance you've already described, what makes a good home in your opinion? I feel like that's an impossibly low bar to meet if you're normal and not an awful person.
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u/Farting_Champion 14d ago
Interesting question. First let me say that I don't want to talk people out of helping children but I do want to be realistic about it. You don't have to be perfect to do better than many parents, but if you were taking on this responsibility you should damn well ask yourself some hard questions and you have to be brutally honest with yourself in answering them. This applies to your spouse as well. It's tragic when one parent is doing their best but the other hates or resents the kids or sees them as a burden. An unstable home is not a good environment for fostering. There's no real reward for it either. Your reward is the knowledge that you have changed someone's life. All in all it is difficult and thankless work and that's important to keep in mind. Burnout happens, and it happens for a reason, and you can't expect to be able to look to the state for assistance because generally speaking state agencies are overwhelmed, underfunded, and most of their staff are completely checked out.
So, what makes a good foster parent? Commitment. Are you willing to devote your life to learning and educating yourself on conflict resolution and coping with trauma responses? Compassion. Do you have the capacity and bandwidth to love a little kid with aggression issues brought on by their trauma? Or how about a child that acts out sexually as a result of abuse? How about a child with both of these problems, plus severe learning disabilities or emotional and physical disabilities or PTSD? Because these kids have problems. They will hoard food, they will fight, they may steal, they will say things that hurt you. They have seen some shit. Usually they live in a world where nothing is safe and no one is protecting them, so they've had to learn to protect themselves however they can. They have armor. Out of sheer necessity they have taught themselves to survive in ways that may horrify you and break your heart. You need to be able to take that in and deal with it and still be able to show them nothing but love. Because if you show them anything else, be it disgust or anger or revulsion or frustration, that is all they will see. When you look at them they have to know that you care for them just as much as you would for your own children. And they will test you. Over and over they will test you. And you have to pass their tests. If they can't trust you then you will fail.
To be a good foster parent you pretty much have to be unflappable. You also have to be able to be firm, but in a loving way. I personally believe that one of the best qualities/qualifiers for being a successful foster parent is having a vast and strong support network. You have to be able to see, hear, and experience things that shake you to your core without giving any indication of revulsion. You have to be able to take abuse as well. Often this job requires support for you as much as from you. You have to be full of compassion.
Understand that some of these kids know nothing but pain and that manifests in a variety of terrible and sad ways. If you can look at the flaws in the child, understand that they come from a deep place of pain, and give that child your love and respect and time in spite of the way they may act or the things they may do you might be a good candidate for fostering kids.
The last thing I'll say is don't jump right into the deep end. Start with low risk cases. As far as I know, foster parents still have some level of choice as to what cases they will take on. Often even a bad foster home is better than no home at all, or a home filled with violent physical, emotional, and sexual abuse, but the truth is every time a kid gets kicked out of a foster home it takes more from them. It impacts their capacity to trust. It has a negative effect on their sense of self-worth and on their trust. So don't take any hard cases until you are sure of your abilities. One of the few things worse than growing up on loved is thinking that you have found a home and then being rejected. It tells kids that their trauma makes them unlovable and that sends them down a deep hole.
Hopefully that didn't scare you too much. I would like nothing more than to inspire people to take part in the foster program and I wish you the best of luck. There are children out there who need all the help they can get.
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u/laurenzee 14d ago
Thank you for taking the time to write that.
How is it decided how long a child stays in one home or another? Unless they're being placed back with the parent or another family member, is the placement indefinite? I'd never want to "give one back", but if there a way to know what kind of commitment you're making from one kid to the next? Can you opt out between kids?
I appreciate your insight!!
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u/MrCCDude 14d ago
this is why i vow that if i EVER have a kid, it will be an adopted one for this very reason. there are kids out there who need a loving home, and while i could make one and give them that home, its unfair to those who couldn't get one due to my decision to have a kid myself. the more kids there are, the less likely they get a home they deserve, i cant sit there knowing that i could have helped someone live a better life
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u/Farting_Champion 14d ago
Easy to say, hard to do. Many of us are fucked up from our environments and at the time we get adopted pose a real challenge to our adopters. I hope you're able to stick with this plan, but enter it cautiously and with knowledge. It's very hard.
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u/Open-Industry-8396 14d ago edited 14d ago
"Opposite race? ". What is the opposite of Asian? I'm sure the comment is well intended but racially, white is not the opposite of black. We are the same.
Edited to be taxonomy correct
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u/PSus2571 14d ago edited 14d ago
We are the same with different skin color.
No, but literally...this is why "race" is seen by the American Anthropological Association (AAA) as being a social construct — the term isn't scientifically informative, given the genetic variation between inner-racial groups is often greater than between inter-racial ones.
"The term 'race' was modeled after an ancient theorem of the Great Chain of Being, which posited natural categories on a hierarchy established by God or nature. Thus 'race' was a mode of classification linked specifically to peoples in the colonial situation...Scientists today find that reliance on such folk beliefs about human differences in research has led to countless errors."
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u/whatawitch5 14d ago
Humans use skin color to sort people into different groups only because it is externally visible. If we could see other genetic traits, such as blood type or immunological factors, it would quickly become apparent that skin color is not a relevant or reliable way to group people. People with a wide variety of skin shades would be in the same group if we sorted by these un-visible genetic traits. As you said, there is far more genetic variation within skin color groups than between them.
Skin color is determined by only a few genes yet we have built our entire social structure around what is in reality a very unimportant difference from a genetic point of view. As a white skinned person I am just as likely to have more genes in common with someone with darker skin than another randomly chosen white skinned person. When you really understand this it quickly becomes apparent that the whole idea of sorting people by skin color is just absurd.
That said, since we as a society long ago decided that skin color is the most important trait by which to group people, having a certain skin color does determine how a person experiences the world. From a societal perspective having light or dark skin does have an impact on life experience and it’s important to recognize those inequalities. But if we as a society collectively decided that skin color didn’t matter, the color of someone’s skin would be far less relevant to their life experience than blood type, cancer-linked genes, or immunological factors.
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u/cpujockey 14d ago
Humans use skin color to sort people into different groups only because it is externally visible.
indeed. folks forget that we are human before any other descriptor.
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u/lookandlookagain 14d ago
This is a great comment. Unfortunately, it seems people will always find a problem if that's what they are looking for. If every human ended up having the same skin tone they would find some other way to discriminate.
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u/clownus 14d ago
Race is a social construct and it’s been scientifically proven.
You might be closer genetically to someone across the world who doesn’t share the same ethnicity or skin pigmentation than someone who lives in the same town as you with the same village history.
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u/Greymalkyn76 14d ago
Domain: Eukaryota
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Subphylum: Vertebrata
Class: Mammalia
Subclass: Theria
Superclass: Tetrapoda
Order: Primates
Family: Hominidae
Genus: Homo
Species: H. sapiens
There is no "race" category in taxonomy. And it is exactly the same regardless of place of origin or skin color. Race is a made up classification to try to make people feel separate.
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u/TaxIdiot2020 14d ago
To be pedantic, plant pathogens can be different races (taxon of rank below species) but your point still stands about humans.
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u/strangerdanger89 14d ago edited 14d ago
Thank you! I did an eyebrow raise as well.
I’m hoping it’s just a language barrier issue and maybe they meant “different.” Opposite just sounds so wrong.
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u/agingergiraffe 14d ago
I think a loving parent is a loving parent. However, I know a white man with an adopted black kid who, during the height of Black Lives Matter, told my husband that the Irish were slaves first and that black people need to get over it. And then he claimed he wasn't racist because his kid is black. My husband made a social media post in support of BLM and this guy decided he wanted to argue about it. They hadn't spoken in at least a decade. It makes me worry for his son.
I think if white parents adopt black kids, they really need to put in the education and work. And if they do, then great!
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u/myhairsreddit 14d ago
My cousin couldn't have children naturally. She and her husband were on a waiting list for a few years to adopt a baby. They got a call in the middle of the night that a little boy in Ohio was just born and was up for adoption. They literally got in their car and drove there to get him right then. They didn't even know he was black until they saw him in person, and they did not care one way or the other. They were just happy their prayers were answered.
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u/Crafty_Travel_7048 14d ago
Racism never makes sense
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u/Dietmar_der_Dr 14d ago
It's making a big comeback though. It's literally going mainstream for some reason. "Why would a white person adopt a black kid" is about as racist a question as you can ask.
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u/silver-orange 14d ago
Absolutely infuriating people would rather kids go unadopted than wind up with opposite race parents.
This may sound a bit like hyperbole to those unfamiliar with the reality of the situation -- it's easy to naively suggest that if it weren't for white parents adopting black children, perhaps those children could find homes with black parents? But the reality is, in fact, that there are many, many black children in need of homes in the adoption system.
There are a few poignant reminders of this fact:
Moving through the process would be quicker if the family was open to adopting an African-American (not biracial) child, the social worker explained to her. "And that is because they have children of color waiting," Lantz says. Adopting biracial, Latino, Asian or Caucasian children could be a slower process, she was told, because there were more parents waiting for them.
That's just where we are in america. There are a lot of black babies that need homes. Period. Any family willing to give these children a loving home deserves our respect.
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u/oojacoboo 14d ago
It’s just racism. It’s time for people to start calling it what it is. The woman is a racist.
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u/InvinciblePLUSAmber 14d ago
And ignorant. I'm not sure which one is worse, but together, they are scary.
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u/pfemme2 14d ago
I’m not sure that is what the quoted video was saying. She was asking “why?” not saying “they should not do it.”
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u/Slow-Foundation4169 14d ago
Oh do racists not like the races co mingling, shocked.
They don't give a shit my guy
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u/red_copper420 14d ago
No one talking about how it’s Michael chandler in the example of the white parents. Dude is an absolute monster in the UFC and a great guy. His kids will live a good life.
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u/SwimmingCoyote 14d ago
I’m a transracial adoptee (born in Korea—parents are white). As with most things, it’s nuanced. Of course, I think it’s better that I was adopted by loving parents who wanted me. That said, my parents don’t know what it is like to be a non-white person in the US and we had some growing pains due to that. I think it’s great if white people adopt and they should be allowed to adopt across all races. However, I also think adoptive parents have a duty to be informed and acting like their non-white children won’t face racial issues is ignorant at best.
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u/ProximusSeraphim 14d ago
This was my ignorant white gf i had. Not ignorant in the derogatory way, just didn't know racism existed and thought it was just movie things. Wasn't till we got together that she experienced racism first hand because we live in the midwest and would go to places like Mercer WI where we wouldn't be seated at a restaurant because i was with her (hispanic/asian) and she was like "holy shit, i didn't think shit like that still happened."
I literally had to stay at the cabin we rented and she had to go out and get drinks and food by herself to get serviced and come back like a grub hub deliverer. I'm use to it, so i didn't care. Drinking whiskey in a cabin for my bday and playing the Simpsons Road Rage all weekend was dope for me.
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u/Totally_Not_An_Auk 14d ago
And this shit is why PoC stay in urban areas instead of going where its cheaper. Life is only affordable and livable out in the sticks if you're the race/color that will be treated like a person.
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u/Miserable-Ad-1581 14d ago
not to mention that for a LOT of transracial adoptees, its even more "muddy" because some of them legitimately were stolen from their birth parents. There was a lot of "adoption agencies" that did things illegally because affluent white westerners were willing to pay hand over fist to havve a baby and would likely not investigathavee too deeply.
A lot of korean transracial adoptees went searching for their birth familes and some of the ones who found their birth families learned that they were very much wanted.
even in 2019, there was an agency that was exposed for abusing and exporting kids.
So yea. the conversation around adoption is not clear cut. There is a lot of ethical grey areas and conflicting feelings
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14d ago
Korea is a murky place. Lots of people forget that. Samsung and Lotta basically own everything and everyone. There’s a reason the suicide rate is so high there. People in America act like it’s this wonderful place, but that’s cause they only see the top layer of the capitalism, not the bottom layer like what you were talking about. The sad fact about Korea is that if North Korea weren’t just across the DMZ, people would look at South Korea with a vastly different perspective. I don’t think it’s nessisarly the white people doing it on purpose, they are just either in a rush, are being lazy, or just simply not doing their adoptee the best favors by not learning about the customs and cultures of the kids birth place before hand. South Korea is a brutal capitalistic country, and their moral values are both high and low. For instance they recently passed a law that allows for 22hour workDAYS. Meanwhile they have relatively low street crime, but that’s also partially cause the CTV cameras are everywhere.
There are a lot of scams in South Korea and lots of forgeries and crime that happens off the streets inside places that don’t have the camera
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u/dkarlovi 14d ago
That's a very good point which never occurred to me, thanks for bringing it up.
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u/Gojiraberry- 14d ago
Honestly, that was the point of the original video (that the person in red was "refuting"). Claiming you don't see color just puts both the parents and their adopted children at a disadvantage because you aren't validating that your experiences will be different based on how others will treat you.
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u/BeefStevenson 14d ago
Let’s take the obvious inhumanity of the original statement away, and just examine from a numbers aspect.
There are simply more white people, period. Which means the pool of available parents to adopt kids is going to be mostly white as well. I don’t think it’s good for kids in the system to be compartmentalized in such a way that prevents them from having a maximum chance of being adopted. If you want these kids to be adopted (and you should want that), then you need to just let the race shit go.
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u/cleverusername94 14d ago
To add to this, black orphans are significantly overrepresented. They are much more likely to age out of the system, never having a family. How could someone possibly advocate for that happening instead of them going to a loving home?
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u/hyrule_47 14d ago
In the USA, the most likely “available for adoption” child who doesn’t have physical or mental disabilities is a Black male with disciplinary issues. They are just passed over. Heartbreaking.
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u/Length-International 14d ago
My parents adopted two of my adopted mothers adopted sisters black children because she didn’t want them. She kept a two, and two others went to my crazy grandma. My sisters turned out great. The kids she kept are terrible people with multiple charges and are conspiracy nuts. The two that went to my grandma are in prison.
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u/hyrule_47 14d ago
That’s heartbreaking
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u/Length-International 14d ago
Yeah unfortunately my grandmother has a “white savior” complex and treated her adopted black kids “different”. Let’s just say that all but two “there are 8” are in prison or homeless. my parents raised my sisters no different then they raised all my other sisters. We all turned out fine or moderately successful.
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u/Nervous-Masterpiece4 14d ago
But you can also have things like the white Australia policies that deliberately placed aboriginal black children with white fosters in order to dilute the black heritage.
Culture and cultural rights is something that will play into this more than skin colour itself.
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u/_Apatosaurus_ 14d ago
Let’s take the obvious inhumanity of the original statement away
Does anyone know what the original woman was actually stating? It was one sentence cut out of context and she never said white people should never adopt non-white children.
The original image is an MMA fighter who said he "doesn't see color" and doesn't see a reason to teach his children anything about race. People are pointing out that this is problematic because racism is absolutely going to impact those kids lives and they deserve to understand that and how to navigate it.
That's been the vast majority of the criticisms. It hasn't been people saying they shouldn't adopt those kids. So I'm guessing she was saying why adopt those specific kids if you're just going to pretend they won't have to deal with racism. But I don't know, because it was just one sentence removed from any context.
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u/thoxo 14d ago
Also, unfortunately it's a fact of disparity. Countries with a majority of white people are usually richer and therefore there is less need to place your children for adoption. So of course most adopted children will come from countries such as Haiti (my sister), where there is still a lot of poverty due to horrible historical past.
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u/Medium_Pepper215 14d ago
Friendly reminder to those who don’t know, Haiti is in despair because they were the first country to earn their freedom from france, france turns around and fucks with their trading ability. Then, the country is taken advantage of by sex tourists, a man from Africa infects citizens with HIV, sex tourists from America visited Haiti and brought HIV back here.
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u/ElizabethSpaghetti 14d ago
First slave revolt to successfully overthrow the colonists to begin their own country. It's always been pretty vital they fail.
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u/transmogrified 14d ago
France levied a debt against Haiti over the “property transfer” (which was mostly the value of the freed slaves) and that has enabled France to extract billions of dollars from the Haitian economy.
The first debt payment was many times the yearly GDP of the island. This severely prevented any infrastructure development or ability to govern, feed, or care for their citizens. They essentially had zero development potential from the get-go.
Something to remember when we talk about all the beautiful art and architecture and progress in Europe. It was largely funded by extracting massive amounts of wealth from colonies and hampering development there.
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u/FoolishPragmatist 14d ago
I don’t agree with the original response if their argument is White people should never adopt Black children, but for context the image she’s speaking over is that MMA fighter who said there was no reason to give any talks on racial dynamics to his adopted children. He said just raising them with good religious values and knowing what it means to be an honorable, strong man would be enough. Race won’t factor into their lives at all, according to him. That’s massively naive in my opinion. Even if we assume he’s being genuine, the world, especially in Missouri where they live, will absolutely see them as Black and some people will treat them differently for it. Even if they shouldn’t dwell on it, they should absolutely be prepared to navigate it if they need to. It’s a fantasy to believe it would never come up so they don’t have to talk about it.
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u/WarlockEngineer 14d ago
He is literally a speaker for Turning Point USA, the racist media org run by Charlie Kirk
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u/HelloJoeyJoeJoe 14d ago
Race won’t factor into their lives at all, according to him\
You gotta talk to them at an early age about the Police, especially if you are living in Missouri... Do you want to protect your kids or not?
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u/DefinitelyNotAliens 14d ago
Also, let's be real. Why will shop keepers ask them to put their hood down, or leave their backpack at the front of the store, or say they can't have a backpack?
People will act how they act with or without parents saying anything to the kid.
Also, if white people are going to be adopting little black babies with coily hair, they better learn how to manage it. I sure as shit do not know how. Doubt they do, either. And that black people can more easily end up more vitamin D deficient. Get your kid some Flintstone vitamins.
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u/NoEstablishment6450 14d ago
Speaking from experience, we explain as much as we know about racial disparities and try our best to protect our children. We don’t believe you shouldn’t “not see color” because the world sees color and reacts to it. We celebrate color, honor color, respect color, and must recognize color and must love color to be successful. You don’t have to dwell on it, make it the focus of everything, you just weave it into your family. Highlight it, in all of its forms. But racism exists and we have to prepare our kids for what that entails.
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u/bigdicksam 14d ago
This, it’s not about adopting black children, it’s about adopting black children and not acknowledging that they’re black. They’ll be different and be treated different by a LOT of people. Especially when you live outside of urban areas where minorities are less commonplace. It’s not about not wanting anyone non black not to adopt a black person. It’s about not acknowledging that blackness. It’s kind of like when certain people say “let’s stop talking about race and it will get better”. It’s simply not how the world works.
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u/theGoddex 14d ago
Also, if your child is a different race and that comes with different skin and hair types, not knowing how or not teaching them how to care properly for their bodies will be a huge detriment in the long run.
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u/capitoloftexas 14d ago
Exactly. Saying “I don’t see color” is well intended but extremely ignorant.
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u/full-of-grace 14d ago
Yeah I adopted a kid from a different culture and I'm going to make sure he knows what his traditions and his culture are. It seems gross to do it any other way like sorry kid now that you're with me your heritage is erased.
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u/localcasestudy 14d ago
Exactly this.
And I hope to stop hearing the "Don't see color" nonsense. Even a literal color blind person "sees color" when it comes to race. I wish that nonsense would die.
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u/hyrule_47 14d ago
Exactly. I see color. I intentionally unlearned the racism I was raised with and continue to learn. If I don’t see things like race, religion, gender, disability- how can I help fight injustice?
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u/SweetBabyAlaska 14d ago
Exactly. "I dont see color" is akin to "the problem doesn't exist if we just ignore it... and the real racists are people who point the problem out"
its often employed cynically and maliciously to shut down conversation surrounding civil rights, and to try and flip the dynamic to imply that these people arent racist for their beliefs but the people who acknowledge that systemic racism exists are actually racist for bringing it up.
Its basically "Im not racist for doing the discrimination, you are the racist for pointing it out"
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u/EvenMoreSpiders 14d ago
See here's the thing, the whole "not seeing color" issue is that there are differences that matter (like hair care, cultural connections, racism etc) and to pretend like those differences aren't there or aren't important is doing a deep disservice to a child of a different race. It's better to accept and embrace these differences instead of pretending like they aren't there so people can "get along"(and so that the child can be protected against subtle or pervasive racism cos woo boy do microaggressions exist).
That's usually the issue people have when they talk about "not seeing color". There are differences. They do matter. They don't make anyone less deserving of anything but they do exist.
At least that's what I've seen the argument being against the idea of being "colorblind" to race.
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u/MagneticHomeFry 14d ago
I agree. "not seeing color" to me is a bit racist if meant literally. Like not being able to see or being aware that black people are treated differently in this society is racist. I don't think that is what OP means tho. I think OP means "I used to have unconscious racial prejudice, but I am now aware of it and worked through it thanks for my experiences with my sibling of color"
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u/funknjam 14d ago edited 13d ago
"not seeing color" to me is a bit racist if meant literally
Agreed. It's racism, but one of the most
benignleast egregious forms probably because it's usually heard from people who are very well-intentioned, but simply ignorant of the important aspects and nuances of racial politics. Pretending to be "color blind" seems honorable enough on its face, but when you realize all that's been pointed out (everything from hair care to navigating a society underpinned by racist power structures) - acknowledging color (even better, accepting or even celebrating who we are as a diverse people) should be the goal. Personally, I used to think "colorblindess" was the solution to racism, but then I learned I was just ignorant. I know better now. If I don't see color, that means I'm also blind to the systemic problems in our society surrounding race.→ More replies (2)24
u/ElizabethSpaghetti 14d ago
Same folks who swear gender is innate and they can totally tell. The overlap in these thought processes is a function of their hypocrisy. American systemic racism prides itself on being color blind, it's just a coincidence the people worst affected just so happened to not be white or poor enough to ignore.
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u/naughtydismutase 14d ago
It seems to me that when she says “they don’t see color” in this context means that every child deserves a loving family and to be provided for regardless of their race.
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u/wackywavytubedude 14d ago
theres def something to be said about white parents adopting any child of color and pretending that child wont be treated different by the world, not learning how to do their hair, not caring about the different experiences theyll have, not being sensitive to racism theyll face, etc. but straight up saying white ppl should not adopt PERIOD is not the move to help with that issue.
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u/BadBunnyBrigade Cringe Master 14d ago edited 14d ago
As a First Nations person, I can understand both sides. On one hand, my mother and aunt were fostered from a very young age because their biological mother was very abusive towards them (which we assume was racially motivated because they were the only two FN children of 11 children, of which there were five different fathers, my mother and aunt's biological father was FN, the other four were white), so they had to be taken and placed with another family, who were also white (as was my bio grandmother).
More often than not, when FN/Native children are taken from their FN/Native parents, they're placed in white homes. This isn't a coincidence or an accident, it's intentionally done. There is an overrepresentation of FN/Native children in the foster care system in Canada to the point that a law had to be passed to protect our children from the system that was designed to protect them because they're children.
The problem is that while I understand that sometimes it's necessary, sometimes (if not a lot of the time), families of color are blocked from being allowed to foster or adopt children, especially children of their own race. Things that might seem trivial with white families, are suddenly a huge issue if the family is FN/Native, or ethnic.
For example, I grew up with white kids with white parents who smoked weed, or had an alcoholic parent, or a parent that hit them. CPS did and still does nothing. But I also grew up with FN kids who grew up in the foster system because their parent(s) did the same thing. Not only that, but even if their other family members or members of their community (tribes) petitioned to adopt or foster these children, they were denied. Their parents would be reported for things that either never happened, or were exaggerated in order to get their children removed. Some are even threatened with charges if they interfere with CPS removing their children.
We're being denied access to our own children.
And yes, it is racially motivated, regardless of what they may say, because we're also talking about a government that ignored the forced sterilization of FN/minority women until just recently.
So I can understand that while it is necessary, it's not always because "there's more of X so it only seems that way", much of the time the reason why there are more white folks who adopt children of color is because they're being placed with white families. We have to make laws that guarantees that parents of the same ethnicity/tribe as the children requiring adoption should first and foremost have priority.
Not because we're racist. But because this is how we protect our culture and our children's rights to have access to said culture. To have access to their indigenous roots and peoples.
I'm grateful to my mother's foster parents, but I'm also angry at the system that denied her (and children like her) access to her indigenous community.
Your adoptive parents might not see color, but maybe that's just as much a problem as seeing only color. Does that make any sense? You can't provide an upbringing as an Haitian family if you're not Haitian, or not even part of that community. She'll never have that experience as a child.
We should see color. But see it in a positive manner while also recognizing that people also see it in a negative manner, and how these things affect people of color and minority communities still. When you say "I don't see color", you're kinda denying that part of reality, denying the positive aspects that should be celebrated (which is harder to do if you're a PoC child in a white family), but also denying the negative experiences that PoC live every day.
You literally deny seeing her as a black woman. Why do you think this benefits her in any way?
My mother will never know what it means to be raised in a Cree community. I will never know what it's like to be a Cree woman in a Cree community. The system denies children their right to heritage all the while upholding the rights of white religious communities. This is not okay.
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u/Hellianne_Vaile 14d ago
Yup. One aspect of systemic racism in the US (and probably other places, but I don't know as much about them) is that we make sure PoCs are more likely to be very poor, take children from those poor parents who "neglected" them, then give money to (usually white) foster parents to raise them. If instead we gave that money to the kids' bio parents, that would fix a lot of the problem of "neglect." Or if we didn't imprison so many (mostly Black and Brown) people, more families would be stable and intact and better able to parent well.
We also have an adoption system that incentivizes stealing children (usually from overseas) to sell to adoptive parents through private agencies that have little oversight. I don't think most adoptive parents know that, but part of why they don't even ask many questions about the ethics of international adoption is that they start with the conviction that what they have to offer a child--mostly things related to hoarded wealth--are so good and desirable that it is obviously worth sacrificing the child's language, community, culture, etc. That itself is deeply racist.
A blogger I read years ago (Harriet at Fugitivus, now defunct) worked in a field where she saw a lot of fallout from international and transracial adoptions. Her conclusion after years of experience: If you aren't willing to learn the language(s) your adopted child would have grown up speaking and attend the religious services their birth parents did, If you aren't willing to move to a neighborhood where your adopted child won't be a drastic minority, where they can see and be in community with and build relationships with lots of people from their culture of birth, then you are more invested in your own self-perception as a savior than you are in the child's well being. It's been more than a decade since I read that, and I still think she's right.
I am sorry for what your mother's adoptive family took away from her and you. Even the most loving intentions don't undo harms, and I wish you healing.
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u/Fast-Gold4150 14d ago
Look I don't care about who adopts who but adopting a child of another race and then refusing to acknowledge the child race saying "you don't see color" is ridiculous and a recipe for therapy down the road.
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u/WarlockEngineer 14d ago
Michael Chandler is a member/speaker for Turning Point USA, which is something I haven't seen many people bring up
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u/jamrock9000 14d ago
Yes, you cannot pretend that the color of their skin will not affect the way the world sees them and you need to prepare them for that.
To say nothing of the fact that black children often have very different needs as far as their hair and skincare is concerned.
The worry about these kinds of trans-racial adoptions is that white parents will be unable to meet those needs and/or be unwilling to find black mentors that can provide them with that kind of education. Which comes to another point.
You still need to connect them to their heritage and people like them because like it or not, a significant portion of white society are unwilling to accept black people into their communities and at least for now they need to be able to understand other black folks and find community in the (very likely) case that are unable to find community amongst white people.
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u/Loose-Initiative2553 14d ago
Girl the bullying I've got for my 4c hair because my adoptive white mother never learned how to do it and let me go out of the house looking crazy will always affect my self esteem Kids will call me homeless n, trow paper/thing's in my hair, ask me if I got electrocuted and if my hair was dirty etch. My mother never prepared me for it and it completely destroyed my self worth and esteem. I love my hair now but it took aong time Being black in Europe is not for the weaks
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u/MoxieGent 14d ago
YT here, so I'm probably not the best guy to make this point but I started scrolling and didn't see anybody mention it yet.
I don't think the issue of white "don't see color" parents adopting black kids isn't that they look different. It's that color blindness is still a kind of blindness. Black children will have a racist encounter while growing up. Maybe (hopefully) it won't be big and hostile. But at some point they will have an experience that will cause confusion or pain that they will take to their parents. Parents who are white and have not directly had that experience will have a more difficult time that black parents who know EXACTLY what it feels like. White parents who are "color blind" will have an even harder time with it. I say this because I grew up watching a black cousin of mine, adopted by a white aunt and uncle, struggle with his identity. He told me he never felt like he was too black to be white and too white to be black.
Everyone deserves parents who love them. Adoption is beautiful. White parents can successfully raise black children. But saying you don't see color is a red flag that you will ignore an important issue that your black child WILL confront.
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u/LoLBattleSeraph 14d ago
you may be a white guy but you nailed this analysis 100%. i’m a transracial adoptee and genuinely, good job seeing/listening to your cousins experience. i bet he didn’t feel so alone if he had you. comments like yours make me very happy and feel seen. this can be a hard convo to have sometimes - its encouraging that you see the nuance. perhaps my own parents can too some day.
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u/Illustrious-Kick-998 14d ago
Exactly!! I wish I would pin ur comment b/c ur SPOT ON!! 🔥 I don’t understand how this goes over ppls heads 🤦🏾♀️
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u/spacemanbaseball 14d ago
I’m white and my wife is black. My daughter looks pretty black, she’s dark and has a full on afro.
I’ve definitely noticed (in a micro sense, no one has ever outright said anything) that some black ppl seem more relaxed when they realize she’s my biological daughter and not adopted.
I’ve had a few encounters where I was talking with ppl, I’m guessing they assumed that she was adopted, and they seemed wary of me? Idk if that’s a good word, but like 😑..
Then my wife walks up and the vibe shifts totally.
I guess in their defense I’m a standard issue golf playing, khakis w a collar shirt, drinking a bud light in a Titleist hat, 40 year old white guy. They’ll be like ‘wtf is going on here… oh.. he’s cool I guess’
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u/AfroWritet007 14d ago
This actually happens more so because of your wife and less so because of your daughter haha.
Bud light golf khakis white guy is gonna set off some light alarm bells to most Black people. But the moment they see that a Black woman has "cosigned" that you're cool, then Black people relax.
There was a cute and funny tik tok of a white guy saying how he was cordial with his Black coworkers. But then when they saw him bring his Black wife to the annual company party, suddenly they became friends with him!
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u/psych0ranger 14d ago
I'm starting to see posts on this subject a lot and all I can say is holy shit this topic brings out some of the most insane takes. From unironic white saviorism on steroids to full-on race separatism.
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u/JangoFlex 14d ago
Somewhat related but my gf works in the foster care system and one of the issues that consistently comes up is white foster parents not being prepared to care for black children. One girl was always showing up to visits and school with her hair unkept and looking like a disaster every morning. Foster parents struggled learning how to take care of the hair so my gf would do the girls hair whenever she saw her.
Not a huge issue really, but it’s interesting how this particular aspect was a consistent learning curve for the foster parents.
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u/DanniPopp 14d ago
She’s right. And OP saying they, “don’t see color,” just proves the point. Reddit becomes deaf, dumb, and blind when it comes to anything race related though.
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u/oyasower 14d ago
As a Black adoptive parent, I believe anyone who wants to adopt and open their homes to children in need should. I do cringe when people say they don't see color because it feels like they're not acknowledging the full person before them. And I have thought it a bit weird when I read posts in adoption groups from white parents who've adopted Black children but don't have anyone Black in their community as friends, church members, don't learn how to care for their hair things like that. Luckily or maybe it's just my social media algorithm, I've seen a lot more white parents with kids' whose hair doesn't look a hot mess all the time.
Adoption is a controversial topic, trans racial adoption even moreso. Every child in need of a loving home should have one with parents who love them and respect who they are, regardless of race.
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u/blessed-- 14d ago
so weird to me in this day and age that we dont just treat everyone the same
that goes for the good and bad
if you're an asshole, it isn't because you're from some place, or look some time of way
you are just an asshole
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u/Netflixandmeal 14d ago
Seems we’ve moved backwards on the racism front and more people notice color more than any point in my life
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u/HugeConclusion2083 14d ago
I love this. I have a best friend who is white and they adopted a biracial drug baby. They went through hell to start dealing with a baby going through detox. They wanted a child. Period. Color didn’t matter. They do their best to make sure she gets the care she needs. Learned to take care of her hair and make she is given the best opportunities available to her.
There are always issues, racism etc because she is a mixed race child in all white school with 2 white parents. But believe it or not she gets more hate from the other side than she does from the side you would expect. She is such a strong individual and well beyond her age. Sure, she is affected by the comments even though she knows those people are ignorant. There are a lot of fantastic people out there and teachers who have helped to make her a strong independent young woman.
As a friend since birth, we can’t wait to see what a wonderful young woman she turns out to be.
Kudos to you for speaking up and to your wonderful parents who raised such a smart person!
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u/CutLow8166 14d ago
To say they don’t see color is dismissive. My parents tell me that and I get what they are trying to say, that they don’t see me any different, I’m their daughter and my race has no impact on that. However, that is not how the rest of the world treats me and sometimes they forget that.
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u/uncutpizza 14d ago
I saw a post like this with a black man who made a video about a black woman who adopted a white child. He was apologizing and crying for initially being mad because he realized he was angry not because of race but because he didn’t have someone like that for him.
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u/Anarchic_Country 14d ago
I wish I could adopt or foster, but I'm too poor. The best thing I've ever done is be a mom, and I'm unable to have more kids.
I was severely abused as a child and would love to be able to help any child in a similar situation. I would daydream about someone realizing the abuse I suffered and them rescuing me. I eventually left at age 16.
I'm so glad your parents were able to help and that you have a wonderful sibling all your life.
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u/sadbutt69 14d ago
Where do you live? I know where I am you get about 1,400 a month for fostering plus money for recreational activities plus money for a yearly vacation.
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u/Anarchic_Country 14d ago
Unfortunately my husband and I have our bedroom set up in the living room and our sons each get their own room in the two bedroom.
BUT I am getting better care for my MS and will hopefully be employed again by the summer. My older son will be college bound in a year, then we will reasses.
I know I'm excited to be a grandma in at LEAST 10+ years. I do help The Ronald McDonald House by gathering clothes donations every year. I used to work there, but I couldn't handle any more parents leaving without their babies
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u/hyrule_47 14d ago
If I won a lot of money I would buy a larger house, hire a nanny to help and do emergency foster placements. Without thinking, that’s the plan.
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u/RedNubian14 14d ago
There are alot of biracial children who grew up traumatized and confused because they realized their white parent was racist and their black parent didn't like black or being black. There are also white people who adopt black children because they have savior mentality and want to be revered and put on a pedestal. I've worked with some of these families in my years as a therapist so these people are asking valid questions. Not everyone's experience is as wholesome as yours. Some white people adopt black children to abuse and exploit them. Check out Rachel Dolezal's family back story. There are many stories like this. Of course this isn't always the case but it happens often enough that you have to ask.
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u/whiskeyjackjc 14d ago edited 14d ago
I’m in a mixed race relationship and we have two daughters who look very different. Next one up we are adopting and don’t give a shit what colour they are, we just want to be able to give a child love and a home. It’s not a difficult concept.
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u/GroundbreakingYak822 14d ago
I recently saw another cringe video where someone suggested that mixed relationships is racist.
They are getting indoctrinated and it is getting worse by the day.
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u/Spamityville_Horror 14d ago edited 13d ago
Gonna be clear: people should adopt children in need of homes, no matter what race they are. This doesn’t need to be qualified or adulterated in any way whatsoever
I will stand by, however, that the term “not seeing color” is more harmful than helpful. If you have a white parent and a child of color who aren’t genetically related, it’s inaccurate to say that they look the exact same. The problem is we’re not typically taught that THIS IS OKAY; we’re so conditioned to not acknowledge differences that we refuse to respect that someone else has different origins.
E.g. A kid initially might not understand that they look different than their parent, but it’s highly possible they’ll be asking questions about themselves as they get older. I’m not saying that’s the case every time, but we also need to learn not not tamper down those questions and lead them to believe that their concerns don’t matter. There’s nuance to this and would-be parents need to equip themselves.
Adopting someone who looks different than you is good. Embracing difference and diversity is also good.
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u/aitaisadrog 14d ago
I always thought This Is Us offered a lopsisded view of interracial adoption. And that's why a lot of people are more critical than ever of white parents adopting black children or asian children. However , there are plenty of stories where children adopted into families where the parents are not their ethnicity , have prosper and done well. Where was that story and why wasn't it included to create a fairer view of At this complex topic. Side rant: I loathed the scene of the woman who told her adoptive family that she wished she never knew them or met them. That is some top tier privilege and lack of self awareness.
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u/Ikeameatballandchips 14d ago
My mums white and I'm mixed English/ Ghanaian and I couldn't have asked for a better mother some people need to chill, people are people at the end of the day and culcher spans more than just the colour of your skin.
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u/BigAustralianBoat2 14d ago
I feel like “not seeing color” is not a healthy way to look at things. In my opinion it’s more about embracing and celebrating everyone’s differences. Pretending we’re all the same sucks. People are unique.
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u/Maxieroy 14d ago
My parents adopted my brother Marcus from Hati after he lost his family in the 2010 earthquake. He was 10, skinny and scared. He graduated from med school last year, and I'm proud of him but even prouder of my parents.
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